I need a little help.

[fldigger]

I am new to casting boolits (within the last three months) and brand new to your forum. I was directed here by the folks at Smith-wessonforum.com. They told me this was the place for cast boolit information. I have cast several boolits with my new RCBS 44-250-K using wheel weights. They are sized and lubed, but now I need some load data. I am smart enough to know that I don't know anything about developing loads and am therefore looking for some sage advice as to a good starting load for these boolits. I can get whatever powder I will need, but I currently have Titegroup, Lil' Gun, Blue Dot, Unique, HS-7, Titewad and 296. I appreciate any help getting me started in the right direction. Thanks.

[Dale53]

fldigger;
That Keith 250 gr bullet in the .44 Magnum (you din't mention what handgun you are using) will work extremely well with 296. I would start at 23.0 grs (should give you about `1200 fps and go up to 24.0 grs CAREFULLY. That will give you 1400 fps or so in 6" or longer barrel.

I have, for years and many thousands of loads, used 23.0 grs. of H110 or Win 296 for "full load" practice and 24.0 grs for hunting behind a 240-250 gr Keith with MUCH satisfaction.

240 GR. NOS JHP* 240 296 .429"* 1.600" 23.0 1413 25,200 CUP 24.0 1522 36,200 CUP
NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

The data in red is from Hodgdon's Winchester loading data. You can safely use the data for 240 gr Jacketed bullets with lead semi wadcutters. You will typically get a bit more velocity from cast bullets than jacketed.

Dale53

[cbrick]

fldigger,

Dale is right on track though I have never used 296 (always heard that it was more temperature sensitive in summer, don't know this to be a fact though) and H-110 is very, very close in burn rate. In long range handgun revolver master class the most common load is 23.5 gr H-110 and 240 gr bullets. This load is so common in silhouette its called "the family load".

Assuming you are loading for a revolver (you didn't say) be sure to size your bullets to throat diameter, not groove diameter. If your revolver is dimensioned correctly the groove diameter will be right at or just a tick under throat diameter.

Rick

[9.3X62AL]

FL--

Welcome aboard, and dittoes to all the above commentary regarding the 44 Magnum. For a good mid-velocity load in the 44 Magnum, 8.0 grains of Unique is a pretty good one too--it's an "all day load" in Model 29's or Redhawks.

[44man]

296 has never given me trouble no matter what the temperature and has always been more accurate in any .44 except the standard Redhawk which liked H110 better.
Cbrick, H110 and 296 are the same exact powders from the same production line but H110 is a little to the side of the burn rate of 296 batches. Hodgden and Winchester just have different specs. The strange thing is that changing the load of H110 to try and match 296 did not improve accuracy, nor did changing 296 loads to match H110 in the Redhawk help. There is just enough difference to call them two different powders. I know it doesn't make sense but after pounds and pounds of both powders, I will stay with 296 except in the Redhawk. The Super Redhawk also loves 296 better then H110. This is a case of having to work with both powders in the gun you have.
Fldigger, all of those powders can make good loads. Just work with each and find the best accuracy. Ignore velocity until you get accuracy. Anything you come up with will work just fine on deer or paper.
The .44 is a wonderful cartridge!

[fldigger]

Sorry, I keep forgetting to give all the data. Yes, I am loading for a revolver, a S&W 629. Hopefully soon that will change and it will have company, but for now that is it. I also have a S&W 24-3 that I will eventually load some 44 spl loads for with this boolit. I have not as yet measured the throat of the gun. Please refresh my memory, the throat is located at the front of the charge holes in the cylinder, I think????? Any way, thanks for the help, I am anxious to try shooting home made projectiles, but not so anxious to damage me or a gun.

[cbrick]

44man, can't argue with a single thing you said, I have never tested the difference, just perpetuating the old wives tale. On the chance there could be something to the temp sensitivity of 296 I just stayed with H-110 because summer is something that we get here with a vengance. It can hit 110 degrees here and summer time loads are something that needs to be watched closely. Max loads that work very well (and safely) in winter could be a life altering experience in summer. If only the good Lord will give me enough time to test everything I would like to test.

fldigger, yes, the throat is the forward part of the cylinder where the bullet exits the cylinder. Knowing the dimensions of your revolver is very important to getting good accuracy and little to no leading.

Rick

[Lloyd Smale]

Im not a big fan of 110/296 its just not all that flexible. In my opinion your lilgun will do anything and more then 296 in the 44 but for a start id go with 9-10 grains of unique it makes a nice light recoiling load that will handle deer bear and pigs.

[44man]

I mostly shoot loads towards the high end that are the most accurate I can get because all of my shooting is based on hunting loads. 296 has always worked fine in any weather or if my gun was blasing hot for silhouette. Lilgun can also be a great powder. The end use of the gun will determine what is wanted.
Unique is great for plinking as is 231. Just have to work with each powder and if it shoots good you can't ask for more.

[Ricochet]

My favorite full power load for many years in my Super Blackhawk was a 240 grain lead semiwadcutter gas check factory Winchester bullet (out of production since the late '70s) with 25 grains of 296. I don't have any 296 or H110 at the moment, but have been using surplus WC820 in somewhat smaller loads for similar results. I just bought a 6 cavity Lee 429-255-SWC mould off of their surplus items page (it's been discontinued), and on initial trials it seems to shoot quite well with 19 grains of my WC820. Haven't chronoed that yet, but it's a full power load for sure. The 429-240-SWC looks like the same boolit, slightly shorter at the base.

With lead bullets in the 240-250 grain weight range, 8 grains of Unique sure does shoot well and is very easy to shoot. I've thought of it as a .45 Colt equivalent. I've loaded and shot many of those.

I long ago quit shooting .44 Specials in my .44 Magnum, because the fouling buildup in the chamber in front of the shorter Special cases causes case sticking on both loading and extraction when I go back to the Magnums. So I load light loads in the Magnum cases instead of shooting Specials. (I keep the Special cases for shooting in a Special-chambered revolver.) I find it convenient to use different bullets for the light loads that are visually obvious. I have another Lee surplus mould for another discontinued former standard boolit of theirs, the 429-215-1R. A round nosed boolit like a slightly scaled down .45 hardball. And I'm getting one of the group buy custom .44 double ended wadcutter 200 grain moulds, which should be a dandy for those light loads. If you want one of those, we're right at the bitter end of the ordering period. Get over to that thread, holler at Jerry Lewis and get $60 to him pronto.

[454PB]

I've used all the powders you mentioned, except Titegroup and Tightwad. All will work fine in your 629, but each has it's limitations. I'd reserve the H-110, WW296, and Lil'gun for maximum effort (HOT) loads. Both H-110 and WW296 are not recommended for reduced loads, ignition can get erratic and downright dangerous. Lil'Gun has not shown that weakness in my testing, and has replace both of them as my powder of choice for maximum effort loads. Bluedot is my choice for midrange loads, and HS-7 and Unique for "plinking" loads.

As cbrick said, it is very important to measure your cylinder throats and barrel groove diameter before sizing boolits. Shooting undersize slugs will produce nothing but inaccuracy and leading. My experience with S&W .44's has been they "usually" work well with a .430" boolit, but your results may vary.

[fldigger]

Thanks for all the replies. I intend to put some of the information to use quickly. I guess my question should have been two pronged, cause now I am curious, How do I find a starting point to work up a load? Is there a relaoding manual that deals with cast bullets? Is there some rule of thumb for using jacketed data to derive a starting point? I would like to be able to look at a reference and then go from there, without having to bother you guys everytime I try a new mould. I suppose that experience plays a big role in that. But I would like to gain good experience as opposed to painful experience. Again thanks for the input. Unfortunately for you guys, I know that I will be back bugging you with more questions. So thanks in advance for putting up with me.

[454PB]

In general, cast boolits can be substituted for any recipe you find for jacketed bullets. They create less friction, which actually lowers pressure and increases barrel life. The biggest variable between the two would be seating depth. As long as the cast boolit only occupies the same amount of powder capacity within the case, you're good to go.

Everyone I know of on this forum is glad to help in any way possible, don't be afraid to ask questions!

And by the way, welcome to the forum!

[26Charlie]

Welcome, fldigger - With that 44-250-K in the .44 Mag I like 22.5 gr. H110 for 1350 fps, as a heavy duty load, and 12.0 gr 800-X at 1150 fps for a moderate load.

In the .44 Special I like 7.5 gr Unique for a general all purpose load in a 6 1/2" bbl. 1950 Target S&W and a 3" bbl. M696 with that bullet.

I tried WW 296, which seemed to work like H-110 but had more muzzle flash so I reserved it for the .44 Mag rifles.

[carpetman]

fldigger---Obtain A Lyman reloading manual. If you also use jacketed bullets,get their standard manual as it has data for both cast and jacketed. If you shoot cast only, get their Cast Bullet Handbook. Their Standard Manual has plenty of cast bullet data---afterall they make molds etc for casting,so they promote casting---unlike for example Speer or Hornady manuals.

[singleshotbuff]

uh-hum........

What is this 44 caliber of which you speak? (LOL) As sure as god made lead boolits, he intended for them to be fired in 45 caliber revolvers.

I use H110 and W296 interchangeably in my 45 Colt (the only TRUE revolver caliber) Ruger Blackhawk. I can detect no more chronographed diference between these powders than would be expected in lot to lot variations of the same powder. I haven't honestly tested the temp difference (now I have another winter project since it is 7 degrees here) between the 2, but maybe I should.

Seriously, jacketed data works fine for a comparable weight lead BOOLIT, as far as I can tell.

SSB

[44man]

I do detect a difference in accuracy between 296 and H110 from gun to gun even when the loads are adjusted to account for the small difference in burn rate. In most guns there is just a small difference but I have seen some that would shoot very poor with one over the other. I have never been able to explain it as they are the same powder.
One example was my friends standard Redhawk that he wanted to shoot silhouette with. Using all loads of 296, we could not keep the shots on the 50 meter chicken. I then loaded with H110 and it shot groups on the ram tighter then 296 did on chickens. My SBH was the opposite. I have seen this a lot of times since because I always test both powders in every gun.
That is why I always say "You have to do the work."
I use standard primers for top accuracy in the .44 and .45 but it doesn't get super cold here. If you shoot in bitter cold, the mag primer would likely be needed. It boils down to working loads for your gun and conditions. Neither powder NEEDS a mag primer for good ignition and accuracy but you might need it for your conditions. Another case of "You have to do the work."
Case tension and the cartridge itself can effect the primer you need too. Just too many variables to make a pat answer. My larger bores need the mag.
I never liked the way the manuals always said that you NEED a mag primer for 296, etc. You just have to play it by ear and try both.

[fldigger]

Thanks for all the help. I was able to get my hands on a Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. That sucker is chuck full of information. I appreciate all the information and replies. But now I have another question. I was given a Lee 358-150-SWC/HP single cavity mould. The hollow point pin and the mould are permanently attached to the handles. When I tried using it, the freshly made boolit would be stuck to the hollow point pin and would not shake loose. The only way I was able to extract it was by grabbing the boolit with pliers. As you can guess that doesn't work out well for the boolit. Anyone have any tips or thoughts on what I am doing wrong?

[cbrick]

fldigger,

Had the same problem with my Lee 12 gauge slug mould. The pin was full of burs and nicks that grab the bullet. Try smoothing it out and remember, a hot hollow point pin is a happy hollow point pin.

Rick

[454PB]

With the Lee hollow point moulds, they need to be clean, hot, smoked, and the boolit dumped while the pin (mould bottom) is on top.