Remington 14A in 25 Remington

[chboats]

I have the chance to buy a 25 Remington in good condition.
Can someone share thier experience with the Remington model 14 pump?

I have looked through all of my manuals and can't find load data for the 25 Rem. I understand that 25-35 data can be used but I can't find that either. Can anyone point me to a source? Also where is a good source for brass and dies? At Midway the dies and 100 pieces of brass will cost more than the rifle.

Carl

[excess650]

The Remington Model 14 was the predecessor to the Model 141. These were hand fit and the barrels had integral front sight ramps and bulges for dovetails underneath unlike the 141 which used straight tapered barrels and sweated on front sights. Too, the stocks differed with the 141 stocks becoming thicker and heavier with shotgun type buttplate vs the crescent and rifle plates on the earlier 14. Most of the Model 14 and 141s will have spiral magazine tubes that allow pointed bullets to be used by offsetting points and primers. They are controlled feed from the magazine to barrel, and lock up with a single wedge shaped lock at the top, front of the bolt/carrier.

The Model 14 was offered in the 25cal as well as 30cal, 32cal and 35cal (all Remington rimless cartridges). There was also the"R" model in 38-40 and 44-40 and in both rifle and carbine lengths. The 14 was replaced in the mid to late 1930s by the 141 and serial numbers seem to overlap at that point.

Older Lyman and Ideal manuals list loading data for 25 Remington/25-35 Winchester. The cartridges are similar enough to share data, and 25-35 dies will load 25 Rem ammo, but not a perfect match. 25 Rem cases can be made from 30 Rem cases.

I have a couple of 14s and a 141, but all in 35 cal. To me, they are a classic eastern deer and bear rifle.

If you can buy it inexpensively, you should be able to turn it and make some $.

[Charley]

I don't have a Remington 14, but do have a Standard Model M in .25 Remington. .30 Remington brass is available, and can be necked down to .25. Haven't played with the 6.8 Remington case yet, but I understand it's based on the .30 Remington as well, and might work out for converting to .25. COTW has limited data for the .25 Remington. I don't have my data with me right now, but I'm using Remington's bulk 100 grain SP over IMR 3031. Shoots well, I've taken a couple of our small Texas whitetails with it, and performance has been good.
I'm using Redding dies, picked up from Buffalo Arms. I find they are a lot better at dies/components for odd/obsolete calibers than Midway.

I'd buy the rifle you are describing in a heartbeat! How many other .25 Remington rifles will you see in use? The cool factor alone is worth the cost.

[jh45gun]

I always thought those model Remington pumps with the grooves cut in the magazine tube looked interesting. I would buy one if in good shape even if the brass is a pain to get and load for.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

My M-14 is in 32 Remington and dates from 1914. Still a very good shooter. I neck the 30 Remington brass up and use 90% 30-30 data for a still useful and powerfull deer loading. It is fully adequate at iron sighted ranges.

Your 25 remington should be a great deer rifle under similar conditions especially with all the powders available. I would try the 115 grain Remington RN bullet or the 75 grain Speer hot core flatnose of the deer are not huge.

BvT

[frnkeore]

I collect all the Remington pumps but, I only have one 25 Rem. The only other version of the 14's that is rarer is the Mod 14 1/2 in 38/40 or 44/40.

This is all the data that I've been able to come up with in over 5 years.

The following are modern loads:

Accuracy load – 117gr Hornady RN, 2.575 OAL, 26gr, IMR 3031, 2300fps at 80F Estimated pressure is 35,000psi
24.1gr IMR3031, 2200fps, 29,000psi
26.1gr RL15, 2225fps, 30,000psi
Max. 117gr Hornady RN, 2.575 OAL, 29gr RL15, 2450fps@ 70F, Estimated pressure is 41,000psi

These are old loads from a early Handloader Magazine:

87 gr Sierra spit. 3031 30.0 gr 2824 fps 22" bbl (listed as most accurate)
87 gr 31.0 2898 MAX

100 gr 3031 28.0 gr 2579 Ave accuracy
100 gr 4064 30.0 gr 2613 Best all-round load

117 gr 3031 26.5 gr 2344 Fastest 117 load
117 gr 4895 25.0 gr 2074 Most accurate

I have a notation to try H380 with 100 gr bullet, starting at 33.0 gr and going to 35.0 Be careful going up.

The 25 Rem holds at least 2.0 grains more than a 25/35 and in my opinion the Mod 14 is stronger than the 94.

[chboats]

Thanks guys. You have been a big help. I have the Lyman manuals back to 45 but guess I'll have to go looking for earlier issues. All I intend to shoot is boolits. Good information on the twist magazine tubes. I spent 2 hours searching the web and didn't come up with a quarter of the info posted here.

Thanks again

Carl

[jh45gun]

If your gonna hunt with it use flat nose bullets round nose bullets are not a good choice.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

If your gonna hunt with it use flat nose bullets round nose bullets are not a good choice.

Help me out with the reasoning for your statement.

Why exactly would roundnose bullets not be a good choice in the 25 for hunting?


BvT

[DLCTEX]

Flat nose will transfer energy to deer, RN will pass through without transferring as much energy.

[Bret4207]

Agree. A FN will always be a better killer than a RN of the same caliber. The bigger the FN, the more damage it does.

The 25 Rem used to be quite popular. In bolt guns they used to load them rather hot.

[Chris Smith]

I have a Model 14 made in 1914 in .32 Remington. I got a couple of boxes of ammo with the rifle and make some cases from 30-30 by turning the rim off with my lathe. Buffalo Arms has .30 Rem brass and while it isn't dirt cheap it can be sized down with the correct dies and will work just like new. You might check around at old hardware stores in out of the way places, there might be a box of ammo floating around. Gun shows are a good place but don't be dissapointed if you don't find any. Check the web, it's out there. This round is the rimless version of the Winchester 25-35 so load data is available. It's probably more effective than people are aware of and I will bet the recoil is very pleasant. These great old rifles are of the type that you really have to want to shoot them as the ammo is not easy to find, but to take a deer with a rifle that is nearly a hundred years old with ammo you loaded yourself is very much worth the effort in my opinion.

[Charley]

Like this? .25 Remington from the Standard.

[Char-Gar]

I had two rifles in 25 Remington, a Rem. 30S and a Model 14. I like them both, but over the course of time they were traded for something else.

I killed a half dozen deer with one or the other of the 25 Remingtons. Worked just fine. I used a 117 Hornaday RN over a dose of 4198.

I currently have a good Remington 141 in 30 Remington. It is a first year production transition model that has both 14 and 141 parts. It is a very fine rifle.

[Abert Rim]

I recently found a nice Model 14 in .25 Remington and have just started working with it. Got a bag of .30 Rem. brass from Reeds and Hornady dies from ManVenture, and taking advice from Bruce Hamlin's Pump Rifle site I started the cases into a s 7mm-08 die, then sized in the .25 Rem die and haven't lost one yet.
Ken Waters wrote up this cartridge in the Nov. 1973 issue of Handloader. It's also in Vol. 1 of Pet Loads. He did his workups with a Model 8.
Jeff Quinn at Gun Blast got excellent velocity in the .25-35 Winchester 94 he reviewed using A2460, which I mean to try.
I came by here hoping someone would have some fresh cast data suggestions.
Barrel date codes show my rifle was built in June 1923.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/BillOregon/IMG_0010.jpg

[Duckiller]

It has been suggested that you could resize 6.8 Remington brass to 25/30/32 Remington. DON'T! The 6.8 Rem is based on the 30 Rem but it is too short. As the owner of a rimless Rem I am always on the look out for brass. You too will join the hunt. Model 14 and141 are great guns. Brass, properly headstamped, is available. It may take a little hunting and patients but you can find it. If you find it with the right head stamp, buy it. It is NOT too expensive, just don't load to maximum. Slightly reduced loads won't destroy brass and will kill lots of deer. It should be noted that the 25 Rem. and the 25/35 are not now considered appropriate deer cartridges. However I had two uncles that hunted the cedar swamps of MI UP and they used only 25/35s and killed lots of deer. At reasonable range with a clear shot either cartridge will bring down a deer.

[BretMavrick]

Found a page of load data. I would also bet a quick email to any powder manufacturer would also bear fruit.

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2470&caliber=.25&caliberid=7&header=.25%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

[square butte]

Anyone found a source for 117 gr Flat Nose bullets for .25 cal.? I used to be able to buy them bulk from Winchester - but can't seem to find anything that weight range in a flat nose any more.

[ajjohns]

Those rifles are a beautiful piece of machine work. Well built and put together. Here in the northern region of Mn they were (and still around) quite popular. I have the 30, 35, and the 1/2 model in 44/40 and they're all fun to tote in the woods. The 25 is a nice round, easy on the shoulder, and kills deer dead.

[Bret4207]

Anyone found a source for 117 gr Flat Nose bullets for .25 cal.? I used to be able to buy them bulk from Winchester - but can't seem to find anything that weight range in a flat nose any more.

Last I knew Hornady still had the 117 RN, but I haven't seen a 117 FN in forever!

[bearstopper]

I have a couple Model 8 Remingtons in 25 and a long time ago purchased forming dies and a couple hundred 30 Rem brass. This after a bad experience with new Jameson brass. The Jameson was determined to be too hard and was seperating at the case head with one shot. After numerous complaints they accepted it back and stated it would be years before they reran it and/or fixed any problems. I just picked up a model 14 in 25 Rem, an older one with the checkered steel shotgun type buttplate. I assume it is pre 21 since there is no barrel lettering indicating a model year. Anyone know how to determine production year based on the serial no.?

[Char-Gar]

If you noticed the spiral magazine tube on the Remington pump, that is do so that the bullet nose won't rest against the primer of the round in front. There are no need for FN bullets in this rifle. the RN works just fine.

There is a letter code on the barrel that indicates the year of production. I don't have chart at hand, but it can be found on the Internet. Google is your friend.

[bearstopper]

If you noticed the spiral magazine tube on the Remington pump, that is do so that the bullet nose won't rest against the primer of the round in front. There are no need for FN bullets in this rifle. the RN works just fine.

There is a letter code on the barrel that indicates the year of production. I don't have chart at hand, but it can be found on the Internet. Google is your friend.

Mine is pre 21 before they started the barrel code.