223 AR's r beating 308, 1000 yds

[trench]

In some of the miitary matches. They use the same 26" barrels that the 308 fans use, single load their rds just like the 308 guys do. A 90 gr VLD Berger bullet is used, at about 2800 fps from that long barrel, with a 1 in 6.5" twist. The bullets still have 1200 fps and 300 ft lbs of energy left at 1000 yds. Quite lethal indeed.

[perotter]

The AR has proven to be one of greatest rifle designs ever.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

Up until a few years ago my experience had been limited to the M16 A1 rifle back in the early 70's. I have to admit I never thought the AR platform would or could evolve as far as it has.

Mike

[MtGun44]

I never had any interest in ARs until I tried a friend's HBAR about 15 - 20 yrs ago. I was totally
surprised. I eventually bought that one from him and earned my Expert badge with it, dead
stock except for match sights.

I have a number of them now and they are all very accurate and reliable with good ammo.

Bill

[RU shooter]

Heres a pretty good article about shooting long range with a 223 and what the little rd is capable of http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php

[redneckdan]

Within the service rifle disciple the ar-15/.223 has a lot of key advantages over the M1A/.308

Less recoil- means less shooter fatigue and better scores

More stable platform- it takes a lot of work to get an M1A shooting well and even more work to keep it that way. AR-15 you float a good barrel and make sure nothing is binding.

Cheaper-uses about half the powder and less expensive bullets, more practice for the same amount of money. You can build a great service rifle AR for about a grand if you shop around, good luck getting just a base M1A to start with at that price.

Versatile- you can take the same lower, put a fancy stock and a match gun upper on to shoot that class. Then put the service stock and upper back on to shoot a leg match within minutes. Trigger pull stays the same.

[Doc Highwall]

I have been shooting a Remington 40X in 223 with a 1-8" twist, with 80gr Sierra bullets pushed by Varget for years. What I have found is the 80 grain bullets in a 223, are very compairable to 155 in a 308 Palma (30" Barrel) out to 1000 yards for wind drift.

I am sure the 90 grain bullets will keep up with the newer 175 grain Match Kings making the wind drift pretty much equal.

Shooter fatigue is something to take into consideration when shooting a long 1-2 day match or longer and a smaller caliber helps with less fatigue

Me being cheep, I like shooting the 223 and keeping up and beating the people shooting larger more expensive to feed rounds.

My goal this year is to shoot the 600 yard matches, reduced for 300 yards with my cheep cast bullets. My load is supersonic past 300 yards and the group size is about 1.6" so I should be able to give them a run for their money.

[Larry Gibson]

Additionally, those "match" ARs, even the "service" ARs are a far cry from the M16, M16A1, M16A2 or M4s many are familiar with. The heavy barreled and "weighted" ARs will weigh in at 14+ lbs. Recoil is about like shooting a .22LR.

Have to mention though that I did a bit of "volly" fire with several troops using M16A2s with M852 ammuntion on the 800 meter machine gun transition range (R91 at Fort Lewis) with very good success. They scored more hits than the SAW or M240B gunners did.

Larry Gibson

[tacklebury]

Didn't have A2's yet when I was in, but I loved my A1. 20" barrel, I could with the std. peep, hit a human target at 750 yards all day. We didn't do a lot of auto fire, but when I was running a range once, we had a whole company waylaid for some reason and had a ton to shoot up. Needless to say, we had some barrels really hot. ;)

[williamwaco]

Heres a pretty good article about shooting long range with a 223 and what the little rd is capable of http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php



I really enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing.



.

[jonk]

They are ugly as sin and I won't own one. I think they are overpriced and overhyped. But I won't deny they are accurate!

[Multigunner]

In some of the miitary matches. They use the same 26" barrels that the 308 fans use, single load their rds just like the 308 guys do. A 90 gr VLD Berger bullet is used, at about 2800 fps from that long barrel, with a 1 in 6.5" twist. The bullets still have 1200 fps and 300 ft lbs of energy left at 1000 yds. Quite lethal indeed.

300 fp can kill, most pistol cartridges generate less or little more more at the muzzle but even 100 fp is deadly if a hit is made on a vital organ. Results aren't likely to be instaneous or even certain to disable unless the brain or spinal cord is hit.
A wound even to heart or lung at that range would very likely be survivable with quick attention by a Medic and advanced medical care.

Any modern body armor or helmet should stop a 5.56 or .223 bullet at that energy level at that range.

Not to say this Berger bullet hasn't given fantastic results in this caliber.

But years ago when the ballistic tip bullets first came along a guy was trying to argue that a light 6.5 bullet had better wind resistence than a heavy .308 bullet based on comparing the charts for a 6.5 (.260) ballistic tip round with the chart for a regular .308 bullet. When I compared the chart for the same .308 load using a ballistic tip bullet the .308 had far less windrift than the 6.5.

So a comparasion of the .223 Berger bullet to a .308 bullet of same make and design would tell the tale.

[missionary5155]

Good morning & Happy Thankgiving
When I went through basic in 71 I was highly disappointed I would not even get to touch a M-14. But I was OK with shooting a .223 at paper. As I was in Armor saw little of the Matel Plastic toy. Our armorer had a couple in the rack but there were also some M-14´s that were assigned by waiting list (ranking rockers) who would get them when the back gate was exited for hostile actions. Shooting paper is good and very entertaining but if I ever have to shoot through brush tree trunks or cement blocks I hope to have a caliber .30 in my hands.
Mike in Peru

[shotman]

the 223 is capable of good 1000yds shots . Main down fall is wind. I have hit ground hogs at 700yds with a stock rem 788 with a 22in barrel useing reloads and a 62gr bullet
I have missed by as much as 6ft too. If there is a cross wind and no way to tell. the shots that miss will make you say WHAT?? hardest thing is scope and mounts I had a 50mm objective to be able to see for the drop
Its been several years but about 7 to 8ft hold over I think

[PatMarlin]

When I was over in Cambodia in 1997, upper north east province, a little kid bout's 12 years old had an M16 with the thing all tapped up with scotch tape. Fully locked and loaded and functional, but that was the only AR I saw over there.

Stock butt plate had "Made by Mattel" on it, first one I had ever seen and had to be old. Wish I would have taken a pic of that. I may have, need to look and see.

AK's were like dust brooms, everybody had one.