Question about flint

[Boz330]

The farm that I deer hunt on has flint laying everywhere. Back when they still used tillage to plant crops we would hunt arrow heads between hunts. There is a large cave where the indians lived and the area is covered in broken points and the chips from making them. The land has been tilled for so many years that it is hard to find a good point.
When they were plowing at night you could see the sparks coming off of the turning plows. Plow points had to be changed out every 60 acres.
There are chips and even flint rocks everywhere. Can this flint be used in a flint lock. The flint is a gray to gray-brown color.

Bob

[square butte]

Yes. Your flint is likely what is known as Chert, And will make good flints.

[tacklebury]

Man, I'd love to visit! Don't have much flint here. Guess Michigan indians often traded for it from other places. 8( There's a little bit, but it is rare. 8(

[Hickory]

You might want to think about boxing some up and selling it

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Ever examine the geometry of a gun flint as against a random, broken indian tool flint find? I have. Most broken indian flints would not be usable at all or need rework and then still be a kluge as against a purpose made gunflint from raw material. A great proportion of east coast indian tool work is neither flint nor chert but quartzite or other unusable material and wouldn't work to start with.

It is probably easier to specifically make gun flints from raw material finds than from scrap finds. Best is to buy them, like flintlock owning indians did.

BvT

[Boz330]

Yes. Your flint is likely what is known as Chert, And will make good flints.

From what I have read on the subject I believe that Chert is what this is. Chert was common in TN and this farm is 4 miles from the TN border. We actually pick up supplies in TN.
I don't have a rock lock so don't have a way to test it, but I'm contemplating the purchase of one and this would be convenient if they would work.
If someone is interested in trying some I will grab a handful this weekend. I'm curious more than anything whether it would work.

Bob

[44man]

No, I don't think so. Flint or chert off the surface has been subject to weather, water, freezing, cracking, etc.
Indians mined the rock from under ground.
English flint is usually encased in rock that needs broken off to get to the flint so it withstands weather better.
I am from Ohio and have been to flint ridge where all the Indians would quarry, make all of their tools and then go back home. There is flint on the surface all over the farms but it is useless to knap. It just breaks up. I tried it.

[waksupi]

No, I don't think so. Flint or chert off the surface has been subject to weather, water, freezing, cracking, etc.
Indians mined the rock from under ground.
English flint is usually encased in rock that needs broken off to get to the flint so it withstands weather better.
I am from Ohio and have been to flint ridge where all the Indians would quarry, make all of their tools and then go back home. There is flint on the surface all over the farms but it is useless to knap. It just breaks up. I tried it.


The Indians often made a shallow pit, and buried the shards under the soil. Then built a hot fire over the pit, and let it die out and cool naturally. This changes the crystalline structure of the flint, and also the color usually. This changes the workability of some borderline flints.

[Fly]

Boz I'm not trying to High jack your thread.But you got me to thinking.I live in
east Okla & north of us the flint hills of Kan's run into north Okla.Do any of you
know if that flint could be used?

Fly

[Boz330]

No, I don't think so. Flint or chert off the surface has been subject to weather, water, freezing, cracking, etc.
Indians mined the rock from under ground.
English flint is usually encased in rock that needs broken off to get to the flint so it withstands weather better.
I am from Ohio and have been to flint ridge where all the Indians would quarry, make all of their tools and then go back home. There is flint on the surface all over the farms but it is useless to knap. It just breaks up. I tried it.

This has gotten quite interesting, as many of these threads do. There are rocks in the fields that have chunks off of the sides probably from plowing and the flint is visible inside. I will get some pictures this weekend and post them.
There is a guy close by that makes arrowheads to sell and I know he goes on road trips to get the nodules with the flint inside to work with. I traded him a bunch of antlers for a nice spear point years ago. He used the tips to flake the cutting edge.

Bob

[DIRT Farmer]

Fly my son brought me a chunk that was part of the spoil from a highway job so it was fresh, not exposed to freezing. I have no clue how to work flint but in the process of making tiny shards from big pieces of shelf rock, I had several shards that resembled gun flints, kinda. The edges are extreamly sharp and even a very thin edge would hold up for several shots. The edges spall off with pressure but the stone has a grainy surface, nothing like the smooth faces of the chert we find here. The short answer it worked.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

There is a fellow who advertises in the classifieds of Muzzle Blasts magazine for gunflints that he knaps from southern Indiana chert that he digs. I have bought both gunflints and a well done reproduction indian arrowhead from him. I actually bought the gunflints at a traditional bowman shoot in central KY. His gunflints worked well for me.

His flints are purpose knapped from some of the chert that his experience tells him works up well for him and both kinds of flintwork are well done and durable in use. But they are not made from found ancient whole or broken indian work. The first step is finding the suitable rock of a suitable size that can be reasonably knapped.


BvT

[Fly]

Well we have a huge Cherokee indian population here.I may go talk to them on
the resevation & see what I can find out.There alot of ole timers there that still
know all the old ways of doing things.

If I can get some info from them I will post back to you guy's.I love this kind of stuff.

Flt

[Dean D.]

Boz, your chert should work fine for gun-flints if cut or knapped properly. As others have stated you should avoid rock that has been exposed to the elements for any length of time. Freezing and thawing tends to cause tiny cracks to develop which impede knapping.

Gun-flints are made from blades knapped from a larger sized core, not from bi-faced preforms or shards as knife blades or arrow/spear points are.

It is quite an interesting technique. I have made a few gunflints but the lack of suitable material has restricted my efforts. If you are interested in learning more here is a link to a pretty good old book concerning the manufacture of gun-flints: http://www.archive.org/details/onmanufactureofg00skerrich I have the hard bound version in my library and found it very informative.

You might be surprised at how many members here are flint-knappers and always seem to be searching for sources of material! ;)

Good luck and happy hunting!

[waksupi]

Well we have a huge Cherokee indian population here.I may go talk to them on
the resevation & see what I can find out.There alot of ole timers there that still
know all the old ways of doing things.

If I can get some info from them I will post back to you guy's.I love this kind of stuff.

Flt

Good luck on that! I spent quite a few years traveling the west teaching tribes their own crafts. The government had pretty much beat a lot of it out of them in the early 20th century.

[Fly]

Good luck on that! I spent quite a few years traveling the west teaching tribes their own crafts. The government had pretty much beat a lot of it out of them in the early 20th century.

Well things here are a little differant.This was indian terrortory before it
was a state.Most indians here were pretty much left along to thin for there
selfs (not like on a reservation).I have many indian friends that still know
quite abit.

But that's changing fast.Very sad too.I love talking to those guys about
what you could live on in the woods, if need be.

Fly[smilie=w:

[Pigslayer]

This is a very interesting & informative thread as I am a flintlock shooter. I have always used English gunflints as that is what was recommended. I find that when they get dull I can knap them with a piece of hard steel (carefully) & bring them back into shape. But as far as making my own flints . . . no.

[WildShot]

Years ago I had a group of friends that liked to trout fish on Sulfur Spring Creek in Simpson County, KY. One of our favorite places to fish was a large pool just upstream from a low water ford. At the time the farmer that owned the property along the creek still used tillage methods for planting. The field adjacent to the ford was littered with stone. On the surface the stone looked like limestone but the pieces that were broken by the farm equipment were flint (chert) with just a thin outer layer of limestone. There were all different sizes and shapes of flint. One of the guys was a flintlock shooter (who passed the affliction on to me) and always spent more time picking up flint than fishing. He would select only those that could be used as picked up or would only require minor knapping to fit his lock. He used quite a lot of it for target shooting and plinking. If the piece would not fit in the lock or shattered on test fire, he would just throw it out and tried another one. The real deal here is that you will not know how a particular rock will work until you tighten it in the cock and strike it on the frizzen. If it sparks, load and go. If not, throw it out and try another. I have had reasonable success with pieces of points and spalls picked up in cultivated fields and in the river bottoms after heavy rains or floods. And who knows, maybe that dear I see over the sights of my flintlock is not the first animal that piece of arrow head firing the gun has killed.

[Boz330]

Wildshot, this place isn't that far away. This farm straddles the Todd/Christian County line 4 miles north of the TN line.

Bob

[WildShot]

Probably pretty close to the same material. This is all I have left from the last trip to that area. Must be more than 15 years ago. These pieces are all too large for gunflints and I do not have the skill to reduce them to such and I am not sure that the quality would justify the work. I guess I picked them up and hung on to them as curiosities. We just used the smaller pieces that looked like they would fit in the cock. Neither of us are any good a knapping, I can refresh the edge on a flint but that is as far as I can take it. As far as quality is concerned, they are not as good as black English or French amber but it was a lot more fun that placing an order and waiting for the brown truck to deliver.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/108984ed68075d0f40.jpg

[Boz330]

Yep that is the stuff alright.

Bob

[piwo]

Rich Pierce provides flints for Muzzleloaders that he knaps from Flint found along Missouri streams and such. You might pop him an email or do some more reading but the Flints I bought from Rich are really good sparkers, and with MO and KY being neighbors I'd say there's a good possibility you'd be able to knap some of your's with some practice.........

You can google him and get either a website or an article written about them and go from there.........

[357maximum]

Probably pretty close to the same material. This is all I have left from the last trip to that area. Must be more than 15 years ago. These pieces are all too large for gunflints and I do not have the skill to reduce them to such and I am not sure that the quality would justify the work. I guess I picked them up and hung on to them as curiosities. We just used the smaller pieces that looked like they would fit in the cock. Neither of us are any good a knapping, I can refresh the edge on a flint but that is as far as I can take it. As far as quality is concerned, they are not as good as black English or French amber but it was a lot more fun that placing an order and waiting for the brown truck to deliver.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/108984ed68075d0f40.jpg

Man I wish I could go out and collect that pile ya got there. Michigan sucks for knappable stone.

This is what I would do with that pile in your pic:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints025.jpg


I could make you some gunflints out of them big round rocks id you do not want all the rock sitting around taking up space.

[Boz330]

A shame those won't go in a flat rate box, I'd send you some. I brought back a couple stones to take pictures of and just haven't gotten around to it yet. Headed back there tomorrow to tear down deer camp.

Bob

[JMtoolman]

Out here in the West I used to gather up agate chunks to make flints out of. The agate is probably a bit harder than flint, and would last for up to a hundred shots before being too short or dull to resharpen. I still have a coffee can full of these under my bench. Haven't used the flints for twenty years or more. The toolman.

[WildShot]

Should have mentioned that the boards in the table top are 2" wide to give an idea how large those chunks are. All this talk is getting my interest up in going back to see if I can get some more smaller pieces.

[357maximum]

I have found that the bigger the rock..... the easier it is to get a good pyramid shaped blade core going. My heavy handed knapping style and my moose billets simply like the bigger stones. The best blade core I have ever made came out of a Texas Edwards flint that was the size of a soccerball. I do not see anything in your pic that will not fit in the square shaped large flatrate box. I will cover the postage.:bigsmyl2: Even if my eyes betray me and it needs a non flatrate box.

[Boz330]

I wish you had said something sooner. I went down to tear deer camp yesterday and could have grabbed you a bunch of stones. I have a couple chunks here, if you want them. PM me an addy and I'll ship them to you.

Bob

[Ohio Rusty]

Broken and knapped arrow heads make great gun flints. If you can get any quantity of flint, snatch it up. Lots of knappers and flintlock shooters like making their own stuff.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[Boz330]

Mike will these work? I'll try and get a flat rate box that they will fit in.

Bob

[Dean D.]

Now ya went and done it Bob! Mike probably ruined his keyboard from all the drool! Those are some nice chunks of flint there. ;)

[Boz330]

Now ya went and done it Bob! Mike probably ruined his keyboard from all the drool! Those are some nice chunks of flint there. ;)

I'll take your word for it, since I wouldn't know the difference. The guys that have the patience to figure out how to work this stuff have my admiration.

There is a guy in my hometown that sold his saw mill and went into making points for a living. He sure makes it look easy. He can carry on a conversation with you and knap at the same time. Doesn't even look like he is paying attention to what he is doing.

Just wanted Mike to check this stuff before I sent it.

Bob

[WildShot]

Mike won't be at his computer for a few days. You will find him waiting at his mailbox. I sent him a box of rocks too.

[Boz330]

Looks as if Mike is working BOTH sides of the street. Scuse me while I run to the PO.

Bob

[Boerrancher]

Making a gun flint is easy. You drive off a blade from the main core(large chunk of flint) that has a triangular cross section. Once you have the blade, you simply cut it into pieces with a diamond blade on your dremmel tool, and use an antler tine to pressure flake them to the final shape.

Here is a blade from a core looking down at the top of it. Notice how it has a distinct ridge down the middle.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Boolits/100_2685-1.jpg

Here is a cross section view. Note it is a triangle. Once cut into the proper length pieces, the flat part sits on the bottom of the hammer. If the flint is too long just take an antler tine and apply pressure in and down to pop of a flake. Do this all the way across and when you are done check it for fit.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Boolits/100_2686-1.jpg

As I turn this blade into gun flints some time in the next week or so, I will take pictures of the process so that every one can see how it is done.

I should also note that I found this blade as photographed on a known Indian site, It was probably one of many made that day and this one was either misplaced or discarded. Blade core technology was a big part of the Indian's stone working skills, so if you are out in an area where arrowheads are found keep your eyes open for these, as most folks just discard them as flakes, but they were actually oft times used as cutting tools, or made into points. If you find one you can do what I am going to do with this one and that is make gun flints out of it.

Best wishes,

Joe

[WildShot]

That does sound pretty easy but how do you "drive off a blade from the main core" when the large chunk of flint looks like the spherical nodules in the image I posted?

[Boerrancher]

That does sound pretty easy but how do you "drive off a blade from the main core" when the large chunk of flint looks like the spherical nodules in the image I posted?

You split the nodule in half, then with a hammerstone you drive off large flakes to remove the cortex or rind. once you have a clean chunk of flint you go a spot on the core that has a corner or edge, place an antler tine punch on that corner and drive off a blade. The wide flat will be the side of the blade that was attached to the core, and the triangle top point will be the corner of the core you placed the punch against.

I hope this helps.

Joe

[357maximum]

I recieved both boxes and I thank you both. :drinks:


Over the next week or so (as work/time allows) I will turn some of the rock into gunflints. I will take pictures of the main steps and post them when I am done. As Joe has stated it is not super difficult when everything works out and the stars are aligned just so.:roll: I use no power tools. I just nibble in on each side of the blade where I want the blade to snap with a pressure flaker. I then lightly thunk it with a heavy antler and walla....gunflint. The hardest part for me is getting the triangular cross section blade. Most of my knapping thus far has been geared towards making big thin flakes for arrowhead production. Most of the triangular blades I have made thus far have actually been ooopsies while making thin flakes. The difference between getting a gunflint blade and an arrowhead flake is simply a matter of how and where you strike the rock. It's an all in the angle of the dangle kinda thing. :mrgreen:


Thanks and Merry Christmas,
Michael

[stubshaft]

:popcorn: Will be keeping an eye out for your progress.

[Boz330]

I recieved both boxes and I thank you both. :drinks:
. :mrgreen:


Thanks and Merry Christmas,
Michael

Wow that was quick since it is Christmas rush season. I just mailed that thing Thurs.

Bob