Lead danger

[nvbirdman]

We all wash our hands after a casting session, but do you wash your hands after loading a bunch of those poisinous boolits? How about after shooting them? I would bet that shooting puts as much lead in the air as casting. Yes I shoot outdoors, but I cast outdoors too, so what's the difference?

[trk]

With good ventilation, the highest intake of lead would then be ingestion. Hence, washing hands is right on the top of the list.

[wills]

What you describe is very hazardous. I however am willing to assume the risks involved. The only way you can avoid this terrible hazard is to immediately ship all that toxic lead to me.

[monadnock#5]

Two items I've added to my list of range bag necessities is a tub of waterless hand cleaner and paper towels. Running water isn't available at my range this time of year. The well pump gets padlocked from Nov. 15 until March 15 each winter season. Besides the health aspect, I really don't like driving my vehicle with black, filthy hands.

Ken

[mag_01]

Just had my lead level checked and I'm maxed out---- Going to have to be more into the safety part of this lead thing---I have been casting loading and shooting for many years---- when casting I wear a haz mat mask---I also wash my hands after casting or loading---Perhaps other precaution's will be followed. Loaded a few tonight and took extra precautions. ------- Mag

[georgeld]

Mag:
They give you any instructions on reducing the levels? OR can it be?
I'm on pt under max myself.

Wills:
IF you need hard lead, contact me asap. georgeld@hotmail.com

[trk]

Just had my lead level checked and I'm maxed out---- Going to have to be more into the safety part of this lead thing---I have been casting loading and shooting for many years---- when casting I wear a haz mat mask---I also wash my hands after casting or loading---Perhaps other precaution's will be followed. Loaded a few tonight and took extra precautions. ------- Mag

I had a cousin who was a neuro surgeon - spent his lifetime treating patients with lead poisoning. Best advice - remove source. Second best advice - vitamin C helps. There are treatments to reduce the lead already in your system - your doctor will get you on the right meds.

[mag_01]

---No Georgeld I did not ask---I should have----But I have other problems that gave me concern and I was addressing them. When I was young like a fool I had no fear and no precautions where taken with casting loading or shooting--Now I am old still a fool but try to take precautions with lead as well as other things in life. ----Mag

[MtGun44]

What do you mean by "maxed out"? In my experience, many MDs
foolishly apply the child max level of 10 mg/dl to adults which is
very inappropriate. The correct 'max level' for adults is 40 mg/dl.
I shoot IPSC indoors every Friday night for 27 yrs and cast in an
unventilated basement, reload many, many thousands of cast
bullets every year and generally run in the mid 20s lead level because
I do not smoke, drink or eat around lead and wash my hands very
religiously after any exposure.

It has been shown that continuously being at 40 mg/dl will not
have adverse effects on adults. Children need to stay 10 or less
due to developing neurostructures which can be harmed by lead.

Bill

[mag_01]

Thanks MT I will see if I can get the #s from my doctor------Mag

[TAWILDCATT]

I'v Had High Lead Count Asked Doc No One Could Tell Me How To Clear Sys Of Lead Now Im Way Down.i Under Stand Iron Resides In Same Place Lead Does.and Zinc Ammalgams With Lead And Goes Out Of Sys.soooo Iron Sup Should Push Lead Out And Zinc Sup Should Wash It Out.
I'm Not A Doc So This Is My Thoughts.i Believe 65 Mpm Is High And Average Should Be 8 Mpm. Check With Doc.

[MtGun44]

65 mg/dl is definitely high and probably needs treatment. At 40 mg/dL
you need to change your habits for certain.

If you have no known exposure, you should be below 10 mg/dL. With
known exposure, being between 10 and 40 (lower is better !) is acceptable.

With my continuous exposure to a high lead shooting environment
every Friday, plus casting and loading, I accept the middle 20s as
reasonable, and far enough below 40 to not require additional effort,
but I do check it every other year. I go that long an interval because
it has shown stability for over 25 years, so I started checking less
frequently.

If I was at 35 mg/dL, I'd be doing something different, too.

Please verify all this as I am an engineer that spent some time educating
myself, but not an MD. I do believe that all that I have said is accurate,
but you don't know me from adam so please verify it from multiple
sources, like I did. I also found that many MDs are not really studied
up on lead, so they may not give the best info off the top of their
heads. Ask them to research it a bit, I'm sure that they have access to
the best info, if they go and look.

Bill

[Zed]

Please verify all this as I am an engineer that spent some time educating
myself, but not an MD. I do believe that all that I have said is accurate,
but you don't know me from adam so please verify it from multiple
sources, like I did. I also found that many MDs are not really studied
up on lead, so they may not give the best info off the top of their
heads. Ask them to research it a bit, I'm sure that they have access to
the best info, if they go and look.

Bill

That pretty much describes me too, Bill.
My blood lead level measured at 19 ug/dL last summer. No panic, but I was advised to try and reduce my exposure, where ever that may be coming from... Seems the state was much more interested in workplace safety than 'hobby interests'.

The guidelines I was given for blood lead levels are as follows:
10 ug/dL or less = Normal
10 - 25 ug/dL = Alert
25 - 39 ug/dL = Caution
40 ug/dL or Greater = Danger!

This may vary by state or country, but it gives a rough idea ...

Steve ..

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive been treated twice for it. Theres two ways they can lower it. Chelting is the easiest and Ive gone through it twice. Its a matter of taking a handfull of pills for a couple months and it does work. Problem is that if you dont have medical insurance the pills are very expensive. The other more drastic way is with blood transfusions. The problem with both ways is that lead is stored in your fat cells and once your blood is clean your body has a tendency to equalize out with the lead so it comes out of your fat cells and goes back into your blood so most times you will need a repeat of whichever method they use. Mine was as high a 90 the first time and they got it down to 30 with treatment and the second time it was up to 54 and they got it back down to 22. I suffered no symtoms from it. The reason i found it is ive been plagued with migrane headaches for about 20 years and they thought maybe it was a factor but even after treatment the headaches didnt go away. Cleanlyness and housekeeping are the big tricks to keeping it in check. Something im poor at. For many years i casted with a cigerette in my mouth and even would sit my sandwich on the bench and eat my lunch while casting. I quit those stupid practices and do make sure i wash my hands right after handling lead. Another big no no is smelting lead. When you use a heat source like a turkey fryer to heat lead you will occasionaly get lead hot enough to give off fumes so make sure your smelting in a well ventilated area and at least when im smelting i wear gloves. I cant abide by a pair of gloves or a resperator when im casting. I know i should and have tried but just cant do it. Another big sorce of lead poisoning is shooting. Especially indoor shooting. I dont care how well a room is ventilated if your shooting indoors your going to get a small amount of lead exposure. Another source is your tumbler. Old tumbling media has lead in it! Even if you dont shoot lead the primers have traces of lead in them and will get into your media. So dont be so cheap as to try to get the last little bit of use out of your media and tumble your cases in an area that is away from you and the rest of your reloading area.

[MtGun44]

Excellent points, I agree totally with both posters above.

One slight clarification. My understanding of the situation
around about 25 mg/dL is "warning if you don't have a
known exposure and are using good practices so it won't
get higher". If you are here and are using good practices
and do understand what is going on and don't let it go
higher, you'll be fine. If you are "just passing thru" and
are ignorant, - watch out!

I am exposed every Friday night for about 2 hours to an
indoor range which has good ventilation, but there is still
lots of lead contamination. However, I am very careful to
wash my hands before I eat or drink and NEVER put
anything in my mouth around ammo or loading. I'm sure
I do pick up some lead here, no doubt.

As to worrying about casting in my basement, I went out
years ago and looked at the partial pressure of lead
vs temperature. I forget the details but the takehome is
much what Mr. Smale said - only when smelting do you
get hot enough (or at least potentially get hot enough)
to get the partial pressure up high enough to worry about.
Basically, at our casting temperatures near zero lead vaporizes
into the air. Lead particles on your hands getting into your
mouth is a much bigger risk.

The main thing you will find as you do research on the subject
is that the overwhelming majority of contamination is ingested
from smoking, eating or drinking with lead on hands or food
or untensils, etc. Breathing is small potatoes in most cases.

People that work on indoor ranges 8 hrs a day ARE at risk from
airborne lead from bullet impacting the stop plates and also
from the lead in the primers, and probably a small amount from
the base of lead bullets exposed to flame. This is a big deal
for police firearms instructors and I know several that had to
stop doing it indoors due to lead levels.

Keep food and drink and smoking away from lead and loading
and you are likely to be just fine. Not to make light of it, but
we do need to keep it safe, but in perspective.

Bill