CCI Musket caps!!

[tomme boy]

I was running low on primers and went an bought some new ones. I went to the range to shoot a few rounds out of my T/C System One in .50cal. I left my old primers at home as there was only a few left.

All I will say is the NEW CCI primers do not work. It seems they changed them according to some things I just read. They are catoring to the reinactors. They are less strong than #11's. I was getting all kinds of hang fires and not going off at all.

The old were part # 0300. The new are # 0301. They say reinactor right on them. I just figured they were the same. Seems like I am going to have to go back to # 11's.

[roverboy]

I don't have any experience with the musket caps. I thought they were more powerful than #11.

[7-30 Waters]

Have you tried RWS musket caps? They have been a great cap for my muzzle loader rifles.

[slamminsammy]

WOW! I hate to hear that!!! I use CCI musket caps all the time! I know for a fact the CCI's had a lot more BANG! than the RWS musket caps. I saw a couple months ago CCI had changed the style from 6 wings to 4 but i didnt think that they would change the charge? I have a friend who is into the reinactor stuff and he said the 6 winged caps were banned cuz some people said the caps blow apart??? Just last week he traded me about 400 good 6 winged CCI caps for some old junkie RWS caps i had laying around. I hope CCI will still offer the older 6 winged caps for people who shoot for real???

[docone31]

A lot of times, the hammer needs to be opened up if it was converted from #11caps to Musket.
It is just removing the hammer, and drilling out the opening. The sides of the hammer drag on the cap and when it strikes, it has reduced power. My converted Hawken from Cabelas was that way when I converted it. I eventually went back to #11s but not from the hammer strike.
I wish I still had that rifle. I had really worked on it.

[tomme boy]

From what I am hearing they changed it because of the reinactors. The caps did have a problem of coming apart because of worn out nipples. The CCI's were always known to be the hottest musket cap made. Now I will have to just convert it over to 209's

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Friend, something is WRONG in your narrative. If the cap will fire a reenactors bulletless charge, it will certainly fire your gun. This includes the fact that many reenactors are notoriously slack about maintaining their weapons in good firing conditions.

Caps used on a gun typically do not "come apart because of worn out nipples" as you suggest. The closest thing to that is the reality of an enlarged flashhole in the nipple from the nipple being burned out, allowing excessive back flow of pressure through a larger orifice on firing, or an excessive powder charge having the same effect. That is what either blows the hammer back, blows the cap off, or both.

Your getting hangfires, or your gun not going off is an indication your gun is malfunctioning because of a clogged ignition. The fire is not getting to the charge. BTW #11s have even less priming compound, so they will not fix your problem either.
I also understand that it is a fairly commom practice for reenactors to enlarge their gun's nipple flash hole to get the gun to fire. This too is an effort to "fix" an ignition problem. Fortunately for them, they do not use a filler or ball, as this would cause a serious problem .
BvT

[tomme boy]

Brand new nipple. New powder in pellet style. You can hear the differnce how strong they are. The old ones were cosidered twice as stong as other musket caps. Thats why I originally went to them from the # 11's. I am just going to go the 209 route as I know I will always be able to get them. And I already have a few thousand of them on hand already anyway.

[405]

Brand new nipple. New powder in pellet style.

Well I'd say what BvT posted is what most were thinking. However, your last post gives more details and sheds some light on the original question. Guaranteed that a standard CCI #11 cap has no trouble setting off a charge of real black in a clean, dry gun. All bets are off about "new powder in pellet style".

[10 ga]

It's the pellets, man, the pellets. They are notoriously hard to ignite and are intended for 209 closed breech ignition, not caps with open ignition. Just get some loose powder in 777, Pyrodex or the real Holy Black. That should help immensly. Loose canned powder is much cheaper than pellets and ignites easier. You can also taylor your load to just what the gun shoots best. If you have reenactors close by then there should be some real black powder available. I use Swiss in my hunting and serious ($) target shooting and KIK or Black Diamond for plinkin and in the 69 muskets and shotguns. Best, 10 ga

[slamminsammy]

I just went to CCI's website and told them what i thought about them changing and water'in down there musket caps!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I just went to CCI's website and told them what i thought about them changing and water'in down there musket caps!

Good for you. They have a special "D" routing key in the mail room for letters like that and the screening clerk there knows how to use it.

Fortunately too, only internet village idiots that occasionally stray here will be influenced by your understanding of caplock ignition.

BvT

[59sharps]

Friend, something is WRONG in your narrative. If the cap will fire a reenactors bulletless charge, it will certainly fire your gun. This includes the fact that many reenactors are notoriously slack about maintaining their weapons in good firing conditions.

Caps used on a gun typically do not "come apart because of worn out nipples" as you suggest. The closest thing to that is the reality of an enlarged flashhole in the nipple from the nipple being burned out, allowing excessive back flow of pressure through a larger orifice on firing, or an excessive powder charge having the same effect. That is what either blows the hammer back, blows the cap off, or both.

Your getting hangfires, or your gun not going off is an indication your gun is malfunctioning because of a clogged ignition. The fire is not getting to the charge. BTW #11s have even less priming compound, so they will not fix your problem either.
I also understand that it is a fairly commom practice for reenactors to enlarge their gun's nipple flash hole to get the gun to fire. This too is an effort to "fix" an ignition problem. Fortunately for them, they do not use a filler or ball, as this would cause a serious problem .
BvT

i AGREE W/ ALL YOU SAY. I know CCI went from 6 wing to 4 wing. do to fragmenting and the compound was changed so thay are not as hot. Skirmishers have been having this ignition problem since they came out. (I have not tried them). For the most part I personally don't beleave the Reinactors really dont care if they get misfires or not. So you do not hear from them. (only my opinion) :cbpour:

[725]

I've found that the musket caps frequently do not seat easily and when struck, they don't go off. On the second strike, having been fully seated by the first hammer fall, they go off. I think it's a matter more of seating hard against the nipple to ensure good ignition than some intentional degradation of the quality of their product.

[waksupi]

I've found that the musket caps frequently do not seat easily and when struck, they don't go off. On the second strike, having been fully seated by the first hammer fall, they go off. I think it's a matter more of seating hard against the nipple to ensure good ignition than some intentional degradation of the quality of their product.

If they need seated with a hammer blow, that indicates the shooter has not done his part to fit the nipple to the type of cap he is shooting. Why so many people neglect a five minute job, and suffer repeated misfires, I have no idea.

[tomme boy]

They go off fine for me. I seat them firmly first. Thats not the problem. I think the real problem is my breach plug was designed for powder, not the pellets. That was why I originaly switched to the musket caps. This T/C System One was made before they came out with the pellets. I have never had any problems with this when I was able to get the old style primer. If it did not go off or had a hangfire, it was something I did.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

OK, you win. Do something different now. Make the problem disappear.

BvT

[mooman76]

I've found that the musket caps frequently do not seat easily and when struck, they don't go off. On the second strike, having been fully seated by the first hammer fall, they go off. I think it's a matter more of seating hard against the nipple to ensure good ignition than some intentional degradation of the quality of their product.

I had that problem with my first ML rifle. That was before I really knew anything about them. The nipple had mushroomed slightly, enough to make the nipple hard to fit so first hit would push it all the way on and second hit touch it off good. Also back then the first and only caps I had were CVA and were a fairly solid brass cup. I would literally have to pry the cap off with something after firing. I didn't buy those caps any more and replaced the nipple. No more problem.

[waksupi]

If a nipple gets mushroomed, you don't need to throw it away. Remove it from the gun, chuck it up in a drill, and use a fine file or sandpaper to make it to where the cap slips on easily.

[mooman76]

If a nipple gets mushroomed, you don't need to throw it away. Remove it from the gun, chuck it up in a drill, and use a fine file or sandpaper to make it to where the cap slips on easily.

I'm a bit of a scrounge so you rarely see me throw anything away that I can see some kind of future use for. I did replace the nipple but I carefully filed it back to where it should be and it's in a tin with my extra little parts and nipples.