cutting lead ingots

[kennyb]

A friend of mine has a couple hundred pounds of lead from a old battery factory. He tells me this lead was never used in batterys. The only problem is the size of these ingots, he says they are 100 pounds each. Any ideas on how to get them down to manageable size?

[Wally]

I used an oxy/propane torch to cut/melt them into manageable chucks.

[southpaw]

What size are the ingots?

Circular saw. If that doesn't work use a chainsaw. If that doesn't work get a bigger smelting pot ;).

I have cut pure with a saw and it cuts pretty easy. Just be safe and go slow. Safety glasses, long sleeve shirt and glove are a good idea.

Jerry Jr.

[kennyb]

I think I'll try a sawz-all. I haven't seen the ingots yet. I'm suppose to get em, the 17th.

[skytex]

IMO I'd say placing the ingot in a large cookie sheet pan and melting thru it would be best. less loss this way than with a saw as the "sawdust" is liable to get everywhere.

[fecmech]

IMO I'd say placing the ingot in a large cookie sheet pan and melting thru it would be best. less loss this way than with a saw as the "sawdust" is liable to get everywhere.

Cut them with a skill saw over a cheap blue tarp for the "sawdust"

[sqlbullet]

Depends on what your definition of "manageable" is. 100 lbs is almost there for me, so I would just stick them in my pot and let them melt down in. My dutch oven I use to refine holds 90 lbs of WW alloy.

Also going to depend on the shape of the ingot. Usually any saw with an aggressive tooth pattern will do OK on ingots.

[Springfield]

Get a bigger pot. Mine has a 12" opening and I can fit a 120 lb chunk in there if I have to as long as it is mostly square.

[bslim]

I cut a lot of my larger pcs on a band saw with a coarse blade.

[Mal Paso]

A regular 5 hp 20 ton logsplitter will divide lead ingots with no dust.

I put a 2x2x8 inch steel block on the Land, opposite the the wedge, as an anvil. It gives the lead someplace to go.

[a.squibload]

Bite chunks off and spit 'em in the pot!

AAAAARRRH HAHA!

[Rotaxxx]

I have use a hammer and a chisel befor and it works not bad. Its a little work though

[glicerin]

A carpenters saw with bar soap on the blade is work, but much better than hammer and chisel for me.

[ditchtiger]

Send me a couple.
I'll try all the above methods and post what works best.
Off course I will be keeping it when I'm done.

[kennyb]

Well here's my lead score from my friend..2 5 gal buckets of lead used for stained glass window making, it tested out to be wheel weights. 15 feet of 3 inch lead pipe, it tested out to be almost pure lead. The ingots turned out to be only 25 pounds each, again, pure lead. 6-1 gallon coffee cans full of duck decoy weights, tested out to be wheel weights.
Oh I also bought 50 pounds of Linotype from Missouri Bullet Co. I got the linotype melted into my cornbread ingots along with about 100 pounds of lead.....busy day melting lead. Gonna hit it again tomorrow, maybe get close to finishing it up.

[Bob Krack]

busy day melting lead. Gonna hit it again tomorrow, maybe get close to finishing it up.
Hmmmmmm Kenny - isn't that an oxymoron, as long as there is lead to melt and you have access to it - I'm not sure how you can say "close to finishing it up"

:veryconfu

[smilie=w:


Bob

[WHITETAIL]

kennyb, Welcome to the forum!
And if I were you I would go to
Harbor Freight and buy a set of
letter + number stamps.
Then as you make a batch you
can mark it for later use.:Fire:

[para45lda]

+1 on the stamp set. You will not accidently spill something on them to erase the sharpie. Ask me how I know....

Wes

[kennyb]

good Idea Whitetail, I bought a set of stamps a while back. While I don't have each small ingot marked I have them seperated in their own piles by hardness and several of them in each pile marked with their respective Brinel numbers.
I love my Cabine Tree tester, it takes the guesswork out of alloy testing.

[GLL]

Instead of cutting it just find a larger pot ! A 100 pound lead block is not very big.

Jerry

[kennyb]

I cut em' with a saw-all and borrowed a friends 50 pound pot. BTW thanks Richard and thanks guys for your input and advice.

[grumman581]

I had a round "ingot" of the pure lead wheelweights that I let smelted down and then let cool down in my smelting pot after I had finished doing the regular wheel weights. It probably sat around the garage for nearly a year and then I decided to cast some bullets out of it. Didn't want to put it back in the smelting pot and recast it into normal size ingots, so I decided that I could just take a brick layer's chisel and a small sledge hammer and cut the round "ingot" into 2-3" wide strips that I could put in my casting pot. The brick layer chisel is about 4" wide and it just barely makes a mark on it with the hand sledge. I tried the normal size sledge hammer and I broke the handle on it somehow -- no, I did not hit the chisel with the handle. The circular "ingot" was about 1.5" thick. It took a lot of work to finally chisel through it. All in all, I would not recommend doing it this way...

[a.squibload]

A narrow chisel about 3/4" cuts better but it's still a lot of work.
When it gets close to through you can bend the lead & break it off.
At the salvage yard in Englewood they have a hydraulic shear,
like scissors with short jaws, cut a 3" thick ingot in half for me,
took about 2 seconds!

[grumman581]

A narrow chisel about 3/4" cuts better but it's still a lot of work.
When it gets close to through you can bend the lead & break it off.
At the salvage yard in Englewood they have a hydraulic shear,
like scissors with short jaws, cut a 3" thick ingot in half for me,
took about 2 seconds!

If I had to do this more often, I might come up with a design utilizing a hydraulic jack and a shear blade to cut through it... As it is, it's enough of a pain that I should remember NOT to do this again... I guess I *could* go place it on a train track and let it shear the ingot in half for me... Nawh, that would mean that I would have to carry the lead there, pick up all the pieces, and carry it back... Too much effort...

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got an old chain saw i bought at a garage sale that i keep just for cutting lead. I havent found an easier way.

[rbertalotto]

I sure hope you folks using power saws to cut lead are doing something to contain the "lead dust"..........Hope there are no children or pregnant woman within a country mile! ............Hope it doesn't get on your lawn and kids or pets get into it.........Hope you are wearing respirators........Making lead dust is about the best way there is for ingesting lead...........Just Saying.............

Happy New Year!

[grumman581]

I sure hope you folks using power saws to cut lead are doing something to contain the "lead dust"..........Hope there are no children or pregnant woman within a country mile! ............Hope it doesn't get on your lawn and kids or pets get into it.........Hope you are wearing respirators........Making lead dust is about the best way there is for ingesting lead...........Just Saying.............


From what I've gathered, you should be using a slow speed saw for cutting lead, not a high speed saw. A high speed saw is more likely to heat up the metal and seize the saw blade. As long as you are cutting slow with a course cut blade, you should be getting chips of lead, not dust.

[bigjason6]

The cheapest and safest way would be just a hack saw

[grumman581]

The cheapest and safest way would be just a hack saw

I read in one post (either on this thread or elsewhere) that with a high speed saw, there's a chance of heating up the lead to the melting point and then if it solidifies you end up with an ingot of lead being thrown somewhere you probably would not like for it to be. I've never tried it nor to I want to experience it. Personally, I would prefer a low speed cut so that any lead cuttings could be more easily reclaimed.

[badbob454]

Instead of cutting it just find a larger pot ! A 100 pound lead block is not very big.

Jerry

no.... but it sure is heavy :drinks:

[leadchunker]

100 lbs of molten lead would be difficult for me to pour. I would cut it into smaller pieces.

[Dale53]

A power saw of most any description can bind, break, and hurt the operator. I have done it this way but found a better way. MUCH better!:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1767.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1771.jpg

That was a 92 lb ingot. That day, with my brother helping, we made small ingots out of 650 lbs of large ingots (running from 64 lbs to 92 lbs) in about three hours.

This is what we had after working on the early large ingots:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1778.jpg

Dale53

[Bullet Caster]

I had an inch piece of lead that was about 1 1/2 feet in diameter. I used a chisel and hammer to make the large chunk of lead into smaller pieces that would fit into my pot. A lot of work but I did it! After you get nearly through you can bend it until it breaks. I would have used a saw but thinking it through I decided that a saw would leave too much Lead dust and I didn't want to waste any lead so I went with the hammer and chisel method. BC

[grumman581]

no.... but it sure is heavy :drinks:

For many of us old farts, it's a lot heavier these days than it was a few decades ago... :)

Must be some sort of Einsteinian gravity inflation factor...

[Revolver]

I bet the jaws of life would cut lead nicely!

Also, I learned on the interwebs that Osmium is twice as dense as lead... that's got to be hefty!

[grumman581]

Also, I learned on the interwebs that Osmium is twice as dense as lead... that's got to be hefty!

22.59 grams per cu-cm for Os...
11.34 grams per cu-cm for Pb...
10.49 grams per cu-cm for Ag...

At $400 per troy ounce, that's going to be some expensive bullets...

Also, with a melting point of 5491F, I don't think any of our melting pots are going to be able to handle it...

With a BHN of about 3920 MPa, I don't think you are going to get much expansion...

[Chicken Thief]

Log splitter!

[Revolver]

At $400 per troy ounce, that's going to be some expensive bullets...
Also, with a melting point of 5491F, I don't think any of our melting pots are going to be able to handle it. With a BHN of about 3920 MPa, I don't think you are going to get much expansion.

I wasn't implying to make boolits out of osmium... was just sharing some interesting information regarding its impressive weight. But looks like you did some neat research.

As far as cutting big lead goes, I agree with other posts here that a log splitter would probably work well. If anyone is interested I'll try it and post up a video.

[a.squibload]

100 lbs of molten lead would be difficult for me to pour. I would cut it into smaller pieces.

High slosh factor, shouldn't try pouring out of the pot!
Make a ladle.
Not too big, my 4oz mushroom can with a handle is fairly heavy.
For a big job I would keep it around 10 fluid oz, not too heavy
but won't take forever to dip out the pot.

[grumman581]

High slosh factor, shouldn't try pouring out of the pot!
Make a ladle.
Not too big, my 4oz mushroom can with a handle is fairly heavy.
For a big job I would keep it around 10 fluid oz, not too heavy
but won't take forever to dip out the pot.

I made a ladle for my smelting out of a 3 ft long piece of 1/2" square solid rod for the handle and then a weld-on type pipe cap (a half sphere) welded to the handle. The handle goes across the entire pipe cap, so there are two support points. You can find these pipe caps at steel fitting supply shops. For casting ingots, it works acceptably... When you get towards the bottom of the smelting pot, it gets a bit more difficult to fill the ladle, but that just means that it's time to start putting more wheelweights in it, right?

I'm not a good enough welder on the light stuff to be able to weld the thin metal in a soup can... I prefer welding metal that is at least 16-gauge -- 1/8" is even better... Just a crude AC stick welder type of guy, I guess...

[a.squibload]

Well I COULD weld the soup can, but just welded a right-angle bracket
to the rebar, then put two short bolts through it and the can.
Surprised the can is lasting, will make a better one someday.

[grumman581]

Well I COULD weld the soup can, but just welded a right-angle bracket
to the rebar, then put two short bolts through it and the can.
Surprised the can is lasting, will make a better one someday.

Well, you're a better welder than I am... Or at least have less crude equipment... I'm more of a utility welder (i.e. around the ranch type)... Lincoln AC-225 "Tombstone" welder... None of this fancy MIG or TIG stuff...

[Reload3006]

Well, you're a better welder than I am... Or at least have less crude equipment... I'm more of a utility welder (i.e. around the ranch type)... Lincoln AC-225 "Tombstone" welder... None of this fancy MIG or TIG stuff...

I have a farm. Bought a Mig so I could repair cattle panels. Worth every penny you should get one.

[grumman581]

I have a farm. Bought a Mig so I could repair cattle panels. Worth every penny you should get one.

Our corals were welded from drill stem... Used an old Lincoln SA-200 "Pipeliner" welder back then... It was so thick that even a crude welder like myself wouldn't end up with a burn through...

These days, I just need a welder around the house and the thinnest metal that I have to weld is 16-gauge (metal fence), so I can get away with the old stick welder and re-weld the holes when I do get a burn through... I've tried welding with a MIG once and did not like all the splatter I was getting... Maybe with a better unit or one with an actual gas shield, I would have been better... It was just a borrowed unit to try it out...

[Reload3006]

mine is both your right they splatter to beat the band. but are handy as all get out especially for thin stuff. they do take some getting used to though.

[grumman581]

mine is both your right they splatter to beat the band. but are handy as all get out especially for thin stuff. they do take some getting used to though.

I was welding up a "safari" (roof cargo) rack for my Jeep and had been using oxy-acetylene gas welding (not brazing). An acquaintance said that he had a MIG welder and offered to let me try it. It was the type with the flux core wire. It seemed a bit quicker than gas welding, but I then spent more time grinding off the splatter and there were some places on that project that I just couldn't get my grinder into in order to remove the splatter. I gave it a try for a few hours and then went back to oxy-acetylene welding. Well, at least for the butt joints... For any of the pieces where they lapped each other, I tended to braze them since it make a less noticeable connection.

http://sites.google.com/site/grumman5812/bryce-canyon-08.JPG

[Hammerlane]

Can anyone say BEER KEG. One of the best pots I ever made was an Old Beer Keg. Cut it 2/3 and added a bottom pour and Cajun Burner and this thing will burn some lead. I have a hard time keeping up. Once I get 5 or 6 inches of lead molten. I can clean at about 150lbs+ an hour. It would hold 100 chunk no problem. Makes less of a mess than trying to cut it. :mrgreen:

[grumman581]

Can anyone say BEER KEG. One of the best pots I ever made was an Old Beer Keg. Cut it 2/3 and added a bottom pour and Cajun Burner and this thing will burn some lead. I have a hard time keeping up. Once I get 5 or 6 inches of lead molten. I can clean at about 150lbs+ an hour. It would hold 100 chunk no problem. Makes less of a mess than trying to cut it. :mrgreen:

I always figured the beer kegs were kind of thin, so the idea of cutting one and welding on it just didn't exactly fit with my welding skills... On the other hand, one of the 20 lb gas grill type propane tanks would be an option for my "skill" at welding...

I seldom do more than a 5g bucket of wheelweights at one time, so a cast iron dutch oven works well enough for me... Can't put them all in at once, but once I have a good liquid base in there, it doesn't take long for each handfull of wheelweights to melt and for me to skim out the steel clips and any zinc that made it in there... I'll periodically pour a bit out and cast some ingots before I get through with the entire 5g bucket of wheelweights though...

[Bill*]

Can anyone say BEER KEG. One of the best pots I ever made was an Old Beer Keg. Cut it 2/3 and added a bottom pour and Cajun Burner and this thing will burn some lead. I have a hard time keeping up. Once I get 5 or 6 inches of lead molten. I can clean at about 150lbs+ an hour. It would hold 100 chunk no problem. Makes less of a mess than trying to cut it. :mrgreen:

I thought beer kegs were aluminum?

[a.squibload]

Some kegs are stainless.

Yeah, a wire-feed is versatile, even a clumsy guy like me can spot weld
thin metal. Turn it way down, put the wire where you want it and give it
a shot or two. Easier than a stick to strike an arc.
I stuck a friend's door hinge back on, little truck, not much metal to weld to.
Weld for one second, let it cool, repeat. Dang welder has paid for itself
just in repair work. Of course if you own a Jeep a welder is required.

[snglstack]

I've used a sharp ax and or a splitting mall

[geargnasher]

If it was a flux core welder and didn't use shielding gas it wasn't a MIG, it was a wire-feed. MIG welders, by definition, contain the arc in an inert gas shield, and spatter a heck of a lot less than the hobby flux-core, (ahem!) pieces of junk. Many of the flux-core welders offer the option of adding a gas shield, just get the right gas, regulator, flowmeter, and change to solid wire.

Gear

[a.squibload]

Millermatic 175, 240v w/gas.
Out on the driveway (Jeep) I usually use flux core,
it spatters a lot but wind would drive away the shield gas.
When there's no breeze, or in the garage, I really like solid wire
with gas, makes a nicer bead.
On the trail I use sticks with 2 batteries in series, hey whatever works!

Oops, uh, back to subject?

[grumman581]

If it was a flux core welder and didn't use shielding gas it wasn't a MIG, it was a wire-feed. MIG welders, by definition, contain the arc in an inert gas shield, and spatter a heck of a lot less than the hobby flux-core, (ahem!) pieces of junk. Many of the flux-core welders offer the option of adding a gas shield, just get the right gas, regulator, flowmeter, and change to solid wire.


Don't remember the brand of welder he had... It did have the capability to add on a gas shield, but I don't think he had all of those parts for it... Plus, the only gas that I likely had for shielding would have been CO2... Plus, it was being done outside, so that could have been a problem with using a shield gas also... Regardless, I was using the flux core and determined rather quickly that I was not very good with it... Ended up oxy-acetylene welding most of it with a couple of spots where I brazed it instead... I rewelded my door hinge on my Jeep with the old AC-225 stick welder and it worked well enough... Tried welding some patch plates in the floorboard of the Jeep to fix a few rust spots and ended up just making the holes bigger... Finally used an oxy-propane torch to cut out the rust spots until I started getting to thicker metal and then riveting in galvanized sheets the floorboard to patch the holes... Wasn't the prettiest thing, but I figured that after I put a coat of the rubberized truckbed liner (e.g. Rhino) over it, it wouldn't be all that noticeable...

End result -- I suck at MIG welding with the flux core wire...

[dnotarianni]

kennyb, Welcome to the forum!
And if I were you I would go to
Harbor Freight and buy a set of
letter + number stamps.
Then as you make a batch you
can mark it for later use.:Fire:

I just use 5 gal pails and mark the outside with whats inside Range Scrap, WW, pure, lino.

Dave

[Reload3006]

Mine is a Miller the largest I could get and stay 110v It does weld nice with gas. does good with flux cored wire I also have a bottle of pure argon but cant get it to feed aluminum wire good guess I'm going to have to invest in a spool gun.

[grumman581]

Mine is a Miller the largest I could get and stay 110v It does weld nice with gas. does good with flux cored wire I also have a bottle of pure argon but cant get it to feed aluminum wire good guess I'm going to have to invest in a spool gun.

Well, I don't think anyone ever complains about a Miller welder, other than the price... They *are* the ones that everyone else compares their welder to...

[dnotarianni]

Mine is a Miller the largest I could get and stay 110v It does weld nice with gas. does good with flux cored wire I also have a bottle of pure argon but cant get it to feed aluminum wire good guess I'm going to have to invest in a spool gun.

Spool guns are nice but the unit will feed Al wire if you change the liner in the gun. Al runs best in a plastic liner as opposed to the steel liner. Been there done that. Al with a spool gun is what I run on the road when I have to but the 110 unit may not have enough power to run a spool gun. I got the Miller 185 with a spool gun and the duty cycle is only about 20%.
dave

[donk]

All good points for cutting and marking. I personally have used a sawzall to cut large lead ingots. Worked ok but the cuttings all over. Never thought to use a tarp. For marking I have used a flat bladed screwdriver. Of course my code was crude. Straight lines, no circles. I have since purchased a stamp kit and once I get back into the swing I will use that to mark the ingots

[bgoff_ak]

I use the ax method, never thought about the log splitter.... ( now I feel dumb ) mine was 2x2 bar stock though, what config is yours ?

[hickfu]

My brother in law is a contractor and he has a saw blade on one of his skill saws that is made for cutting through metal. I asked if it would go through lead so he asked me to get an ingot. It went through it like it was made of butter. So I brought him an ingot made of pure zinc and it didnt stop the saw either. I need to get me one of those blades!!!

His friend used to use it on ship Keel's when they were tearing the boats apart for the lead Keel. They would cut 12" wide strips then cut then into 12" x 12" squares.

Doc