Mining lead from the BFR.....

[saz]

So I decided to hit the range today and work with my 550gr load over 4759, and loaded 10 each at 29.5, 30 and 30.5grs since that is what the gun seemed to like the last time out. It was another colder day, low to mid 20's but started snowing as soon as I got there so no chronograph- oh well. So all my shooting was just accuracy testing and learning how to shoot this pig. On my last outing I was working with this load at 50 yards and shot a 3 round group that measures somewhere around 2 1/2" which is good for me, and NO leading.

I was on a different range I have not been to in a long time so I was uncomfortable, cold and shooting like **** at the beginning. Once I pulled my head out of my rear and started concentrating on the basics again (not focusing on controlling the recoil) my groups instantly shrank to where they should be. I usually pull my cylinder and run a patch or two to check on things, but everything was grouping very well, and you have to completely remove yourself from the range IOT do any maintenance to your firearm. (long story) Anyways, everything was grouping like this all day long so I didn't suspect anything.



Once I got home and had a chance to clean the gun up, the bore looked like it had been ran through 10 SASS matches without being cleaned. HOLY ****! There was so much lead in the bore, I thought it was a residue left over from my home lube or something. NOT THE CASE! The thing that I dont understand is, these boolits were cast the same day as the ones fired in my last trip out, same lube, sized the same, primer powder case all the same. The only thing I can think of is I cleaned the gun with EEZOX the last time, not CLP. I don't see that making a difference, but I could be wrong. I am going to dip lube some of these in LLA and see if there is any change.

[44man]

Mine never changes either, just keeps shooting like crazy. Might be why I never clean the thing, sometimes 2 years without seeing a patch. I do keep the cylinder pin clean and lubed with STP.
It might have been the cold acting on the lube. My best luck is with Felix. If a coat of Alox cures it, try changing your lube.
I never look down my barrels! There might be some lead streaks for all I know but the last time I cleaned it I didn't find any.
Too many things cause or prevent leading so I consider myself very lucky, never having to look for a cure. That is why anyone that has bad leading baffles me and it is hard for me to help but I rarely put blame on the barrel mostly the alloy and lube.
Now the 45-70 BFR loves a lighter boolit and my 317 gr is the one that shot all the sub 1" groups at 100 yards. It is the one that shot a 2-1/2" group at 500 yards. My 330 gr does not do as well but a 378 gr up to 420 gr boolits also shoot real good.
I never tried real heavy ones. I have a zillion large molds for the BPCR but never found a need from the revolver.
For jacketed, the Hornady 300 gr is great. I use 32.5 gr of 4759 and Dacron with a Fed 155 primer.

[Ragnarok]

It's been my experience that if you shoot revolvers with lead bullets..factory or self-cast..you might as well invest in a 'Lewis Lead-remover' set-up in whatever calibers you shoot.

Same for semi-autos.

[saz]

It's been my experience that if you shoot revolvers with lead bullets..factory or self-cast..you might as well invest in a 'Lewis Lead-remover' set-up in whatever calibers you shoot.

Same for semi-autos.


I have a SBH that would beg to differ.

[RobS]

Questions:

-The first time out how long was it since you cast, reloaded and then shot the boolits?

-What alloy are you using?

-Were the rounds all loaded at the same time?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Interesting how barrels will differ.. Some a little lead does nothing and another barrel just a smear and all goes to pieces.
That shooting out in 20 dehrees and blowing snow can take all the fun out of fun.
My last opportunity to shoot my 414 SM was not that bad but 30 & blowing snow in Illinois almost 2 years ago.. Benefit.. there were no other shooters about to cause any delays.
Mike in Peru

[saz]

Here is the average group- (the pasters are from accuracy testing my 1911 at 50 yards for giggles....)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_82574ec045bb783e3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2690)


Questions:

-The first time out how long was it since you cast, reloaded and then shot the boolits? The first outing was within 2 days

-What alloy are you using? Straight WDWW

-Were the rounds all loaded at the same time? No, the first batch was loaded within a day of casting, but the dies were never removed from the turret press in-between sessions, so they were all set the same.


Mike, There is a reason I have not been to this range in some time. I am not knocking anybody that wants to get out and shoot at all, but it is the range that every person in town that owns a pistol goes to ALL THE TIME- there is a heated shooting shack. You can run into some very interesting characters there. Once I settled in and started shooting the 500 a bit, I cleared out 4 benches next to me and half of the other people left. I just had to smile a little bit whenever the trigger broke and I heard somewhere in the background, "Holy $&!# What was that!?!?"

I am learning how to beat the recoil factor- I just have to learn how to ignore it and trust my fundamentals. I am new to the really big boomers like this- but it is a lot of fun!

[saz]

I also have a question from some of you more experienced handgun shooters. All of my groups are similar to this- left and right is tight but vertical stringing is always there. Any advice?

[RobS]

OK.
Since you stated it was another cold day in the mid 20's I am guessing the first time out the temps were similar.

The questions I asked are due to my own experiences. The boolits that you cast, lubed, loaded and shot all within a two day period (the first time out) may have very likely been softer.........maybe not on the outer surface but inside the boolit. You are shooting a very large boolit and a fat one too being a 50 cal. if my memory is right with me reading about your recent BFR purchase.

I've run into this with my 454 Casull and with a water dropped WW boolit it won't lead my bore the day after but give it a week to age further into the boolit and it becomes too hard and doesn't work so well. I don't know exactly what it is if it is the boolit not obturating to fit my bore with the minor imperfections or if it has to do with the lube not being compressed/pushed from the lube grooves during the process of the boolit being shortened due to the pressure being placed on the nose or front of the boolit by the bore resistance and the pressures being slammed into the base of the boolit from the expanding gas of the burning powder. Dealing with my situation, I believe the boolit becomes too hard and the lube isn't able to be compressed from the lube grooves.

Softer lube does help; I switched from the stiffer lube I was using to a softer one and the leading issues with the week old aged boolits was less with a soft lube such as NRA 50/50 or with the more recent lube that I now make. My SRH prefers PB boolits that are 18 or so BHN when being pushed hard with a stiffer lube and if I get much over 25 then I run into the problems it sounds like you are having. The big thing was figuring out the combo that my gun preferred and switching over to a soft lube that flows from the lube grooves better does help.

The vertical stringing is usually an issue of inconsistent velocities. Either improper burn of the powder or boolits that are walking out under recoil are a probable cause.

[saz]

I am going to try and dip lube some of the 550's with liquid ALOX and give that a try. Also I am going to cast up a bunch tonight (air cooled instead of water quenched) and let them sit for a week or so and try again. I dont know if I will have time to get them to the range again, as I am heading to Afghanistan again soon.

As far as the vertical stringing goes, my first thought was boolits jumping crimp. Just happened to have a set of calipers with me and it was not the case. Also I shot a five shot string only loading one at a time and still had the same result. I couldn't run my chronograph because of the snow but next time out I will have it out. I hand weigh everything to +/- .1gr when I am working up a new load just to take powder variations out of the equation. I think I am still a little to flinchy.

I don't understand the leading issue. I have only had a leading issue once before and if there was one streak in the bore you might as well be shooting a shotgun. This thing was leaded up worse than any gun I have used, but the accuracy was still there- strange......

[Love Life]

I ran into the same problem with my 454. When using WDWW boolits I had pretty atrocious leading issues. I switched entirely to ACWW boolits, and used a softer lube. Speed Green, Lotak Hard, and LLA all gave me lead free range trips.

I dip lubed with the LLA and let them dry as much as they could in 24 hours.

[44man]

I also have a question from some of you more experienced handgun shooters. All of my groups are similar to this- left and right is tight but vertical stringing is always there. Any advice?
Two things can cause it. The first is the sandbag because it will change tension from recoil making the next shot raise the barrel more. This also relates to your grip if tension changes.
Next is uneven case tension on the boolits. The primer can move the boolit just before ignition. The brass and your dies will be the reason.
Brand new brass seems to be the worst for getting tension even. Measuring seating pressure and testing new brass showed pressure and POI changes all over with at least 7 group positions.
It is very common for me to put 3 shots in one hole at 50 yards, then have 2 shots touching above. I tend to ignore it.
Now if you take the brass from those 2 shots and set them aside, then keep all brass that keeps hitting the first hole separate for the next loading, groups will improve.
Some time ago I shot a 1-5/16" group at 200 yards doing a drop test with my 330 gr boolit from my old SBH. I used old brass that was loaded around 40 times! [smilie=1: Yep, I am CHEAP! :drinks:
I found Hornady dies give me the most consistent case tension, the expanders are right. All other dies need the expander worked on.
I forgot one other reason, lead too soft will give me fliers. I have not figured if it is related to case tension. I do know they must have a GC. The GC allows the boolit to grab the twist but does it also control the brass as the boolit is seated?
I won't get into lubes but YES, they have a large affect on accuracy, way more then fellas think about. I do NOT like Alox!

[Frank]

Maybe his WDWW's don't have enough arsenic. Was the BH measured? A PB needs a hard bullet. I think the reason is the base deforms on firing. Friction thus increases and you get leading. The resulting deformation causes fliers because the bullet is out of balance. It doesn't deform evenly. GC controls base deformation. GC also scrapes out lead.

So if I were in Saz's shoes, I would try adding mag shot and cast some bullets. Test them with the BH tester. If they aren't hard enough, add some antimony and try again. Make sure they are the right size. You want a BH of 27 or higher. Go for the targets for now. You have enough meplat to create a wound channel. Hard will also prevent deforming the nose when it hits the bone.

Also, try a few other powders. Don't just use what is available. Look in the reloading manuals and see which powders give the highest velocities. You can also shoot without the rear bag.

[44man]

Maybe his WDWW's don't have enough arsenic. Was the BH measured? A PB needs a hard bullet. I think the reason is the base deforms on firing. Friction thus increases and you get leading. The resulting deformation causes fliers because the bullet is out of balance. It doesn't deform evenly. GC controls base deformation. GC also scrapes out lead.

So if I were in Saz's shoes, I would try adding mag shot and cast some bullets. Test them with the BH tester. If they aren't hard enough, add some antimony and try again. Make sure they are the right size. You want a BH of 27 or higher. Go for the targets for now. You have enough meplat to create a wound channel. Hard will also prevent deforming the nose when it hits the bone.

Also, try a few other powders. Don't just use what is available. Look in the reloading manuals and see which powders give the highest velocities. You can also shoot without the rear bag.
Several things wrong Frank. The base does not deform enough to hurt. It does not melt either. The GC will not scrape lead, it stops skid so gas can't leak but is easy to overcome if the boolit is too soft.
A PB needs a certain hardness so the skid does not go past the base band and lead needs not to be super hard. I do fine with 20 to 22 BHN, plain WD WW's. Harder does better with a poor nose design like the Keith that can't align the cylinder. A Keith actually shoots decent at around 28 BHN.
But NO, the 45-70 is too fast for deer with hard boolits, meplats fail shot too fast and make hole punches. Anything over 1350 to 1400 FPS just has to have expansion. Yes, the 45-70 needs softer to kill better. It shoots paper best when hard.
Now what does a large meplat hard boolit do if shot real fast? Darn, I don't know. Is more energy enough to change things? I stay in my comfort zone with revolvers. I have no idea what 2000 FPS or more will do.

[saz]

I am not shooting from sandbags- I have bad luck with them and almost always start them on fire..... (burlap bags- I should probably invest in some good leather ones) I am using a cheap MTM pistol rest. I am resting the very front of the frame and the bottom of my hands are resting on the rest. I am using the palm swell method for fine elevation change like you would do with long range rifle and palm bag under the stock. That would probably explain the grip variation. Also the case neck tension. I do shoot BPCR quite a bit and I am pretty familiar with neck tension. I don't know why I didn't think of that- I will measure how much there is and try to get a more uniform tension. Good tip on the brass for an easy fix- separate the ones that group well from the fliers. I will and see if there is any variance in the brass. There probably is.

I do not want to start a lube argument at all- been there done that. I am one of the ones that has had excellent results with ALOX and I have found my own way to do it without making a mess or gumming up my seating dies. To each his own right?

I do not have any way to test and get a BHN from my alloy. I should but I have not had the need to use one. Whenever I smelt my ww's, I do batches of 150lbs at a time- all clip on no stick ons. I have not had a problem yet.

As far as other powders, I would be looking for what would give me as close to 100% case density as possible, which leads me into two things. I dont want to use Lil Gun, 296, 110 etc because I dont want all of the velocity. I may have to eventually but the 4759 is showing very good accuracy out of the chute, I dont want to give up on it just yet. If I tried anything else it would be AA#5744.

I grew up shooting deer with muzzleloaders and slug guns, and I have a profound respect for a large chunk of lead at moderate velocity- kills like lightening. Hell the moose in my avitar was taken with a 50cal muzzleloader and 495gr conicals moving at 1050fps, at 115 yards. To me it doesn't matter all that much about speed, just accuracy.

I will have to work on the accuracy part some more on my end. I guess I have never learned a proper BR technique for a handgun.

[44man]

OH MY, how do you shoot from that thing? I HAVE ONE AND WITH EVERY SHOT THE WHOLE REST WENT OVER MY HEAD! :veryconfu
It was crazy and I had to duck. :shock:

[Frank]

44man:
On the bases expanding, friction and leading I'm repeating what Veral says in his book, Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets. The good book says GC's do scrape lead. Gas checks also lower pressure. Harder bullets lower pressure. It also criticizes alloys that are too soft. Saz is shooting a 500 S&W, not a 45/70. I said if I were in his shoes, I would do what I suggested. What I would want to know is what are the top powders used to for the 500 S &W out of the Hornady manual?

A MTM pistol rest is a rest. It has rubber on the front that grabs. I want the barrel to let go when it goes up. The best bag is a Protektor for the front and rear. Rest the end of the barrel on the bag. The rear bag is needed to lock the butt. This stops the vertical stringing.

[saz]

OH MY, how do you shoot from that thing? I HAVE ONE AND WITH EVERY SHOT THE WHOLE REST WENT OVER MY HEAD! :veryconfu
It was crazy and I had to duck. :shock:

HAHA! I had an issue with it when I first bought it, but I just lay a piece of fleece cloth over the rubber part and it doesn't "stick" anymore. It does move around a bit though.

[44man]

44man:
On the bases expanding, friction and leading I'm repeating what Veral says in his book, Jacketed Performance With Cast Bullets. The good book says GC's do scrape lead. Gas checks also lower pressure. Harder bullets lower pressure. It also criticizes alloys that are too soft. Saz is shooting a 500 S&W, not a 45/70. I said if I were in his shoes, I would do what I suggested. What I would want to know is what are the top powders used to for the 500 S &W out of the Hornady manual?

A MTM pistol rest is a rest. It has rubber on the front that grabs. I want the barrel to let go when it goes up. The best bag is a Protektor for the front and rear. Rest the end of the barrel on the bag. The rear bag is needed to lock the butt. This stops the vertical stringing.
I like Veral and he is correct on many things But I will argue forever about a GC scraping lead. Too many recovered boolits with lead coated checks and leaded barrels. A GC will NOT lower pressure and can actually increase it. I have many boolits the same except some have a GC and I need to reduce loads at least one gr for them.
You are not talking about the same rest. Mine is a hunk of plastic with a thin rubber butt pad, no bags. Hard to adjust elevation and is so useless I have searched the basement and can't find it! :bigsmyl2:
It WILL fly over your head! [smilie=p:

[Ed K]

I like Veral and he is correct on many things...

Agreed, I like Veral too - have some of his moulds, use his lube, have his book. None of us are perfect though. For example if you were in the business of promoting the superiority of WFN/LFN over the gold standard of cast handgun boolits, what would you use for a company logo? :bigsmyl2:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee153/mvesk/lbt2.png

[Frank]

If you take a cast bullet put a hammer to it and try to shove it through a bore, it wlll be tougher to push through than one that isn't hammered. Why? Because the hammering caused the base to expand. What do you think happens when a bullet is fired. Tens of thousands of pounds per square inch are hitting like hundreds of your biggest hammers! Base expansion causes an increase in friction and this can cause of leading if the lube isn't up to the task. A harder bullet resists base expansion, thus it can work at a higher operating pressure/velocity. Likewise, a harder bullet stays undeformed and balanced.

Gas checks reduce base deformation and will scrape a bore clean but there are certain requirements. There must be an adequate groove for the scraped lead to accumulate and not too tight of a check. A check works best if it moves for alignment.

[44man]

Agreed, I like Veral too - have some of his moulds, use his lube, have his book. None of us are perfect though. For example if you were in the business of promoting the superiority of WFN/LFN over the gold standard of cast handgun boolits, what would you use for a company logo? :bigsmyl2:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee153/mvesk/lbt2.png
Now I had to look again because something was not right! Then it hit me and I had a real laugh.
Thanks, that was good. :bigsmyl2:

[saz]

Now I had to look again because something was not right! Then it hit me and I had a real laugh.
Thanks, that was good. :bigsmyl2:

I just noticed it too. WAY TOO FUNNY!

[Frank]

44man:

Brand new brass seems to be the worst for getting tension even. Measuring seating pressure and testing new brass showed pressure and POI changes all over with at least 7 group positions.
It is very common for me to put 3 shots in one hole at 50 yards, then have 2 shots touching above. I tend to ignore it.
Now if you take the brass from those 2 shots and set them aside, then keep all brass that keeps hitting the first hole separate for the next loading, groups will improve.

If you use a faster powder, the variable of brass tension is eliminated. What you are perhaps observing are the results you get with W296 only. New brass shoots well for many, but not others. How come? Because different powders are used. Now tell me, how does a few ounces of brass tension affect tens of thousands of PSI?

[44man]

44man:


If you use a faster powder, the variable of brass tension is eliminated. What you are perhaps observing are the results you get with W296 only. New brass shoots well for many, but not others. How come? Because different powders are used. Now tell me, how does a few ounces of brass tension affect tens of thousands of PSI?
If we ignore primer pressure movement of the boolit, it still comes down to EVEN tension from shot to shot. That is where I found brand new brass to fail. It is not a lack of tension and even if it was a little lighter, the problem is still having all the same. One boolit held tight with the next just sliding in the brass will scatter the shots.
That has been the hardest to solve and why I came up with the measuring device so I could sort loads. All have been accurate if shot as sorted but I can't mix them.
Each sorted pile can do as good as 1/2" at 50 no matter the tension but the POI is different for each pile. Mix and you could have a 10" group.
Powder does not change that.
Brass structure is always going to be what controls accuracy from a revolver and it is the number one thing to look at.
If you are seating boolits and every one feels different going in, you will never shoot a group even if you use Bullseye.
I won't go into case length and crimps, they come second. I can tell you that you can shoot a revolver single shot with no crimp and still shoot 1/2" groups but if case tension varies, no cigar! Take those with a lot of variance and crimp the devil out of them and you will still get no cigar.

[saz]

I shoot a bit of bpcr, so neck tension is paramount and a annealing brass is a must for that reason. I know it would help accuracy but I am worried about having too little tension and jumping crimps. Anyone anneal pistol brass?

Sent from my A854 using Tapatalk

[subsonic]

I wondered about anealing also. And turning "necks".

Seems to merit further investigation. I also wonder what affect having an oversized driving band against the edge of the cylinder throat would have on things.

[44man]

I shoot a bit of bpcr, so neck tension is paramount and a annealing brass is a must for that reason. I know it would help accuracy but I am worried about having too little tension and jumping crimps. Anyone anneal pistol brass?

Sent from my A854 using Tapatalk
NO, NO, you can't contain the boolit until ignition. The revolver really needs tension on the boolit. Recoil will make a mess of the rest in the cylinder.
I found brass shot more will even out a lot. Working brass makes it better.
You just can't do the same things you do with a rifle.
Do not turn or ream revolver brass. Leave that for brass formed to other calibers and strange stuff when necks get thick.

[saz]

NO, NO, you can't contain the boolit until ignition. The revolver really needs tension on the boolit. Recoil will make a mess of the rest in the cylinder.
I found brass shot more will even out a lot. Working brass makes it better.
You just can't do the same things you do with a rifle.
Do not turn or ream revolver brass. Leave that for brass formed to other calibers and strange stuff when necks get thick.

I kind of figured that would be the case. I have not had any boolits attempt to jump crimp so far- been measuring religously. I started with a very heavy roll crimp and I am slowly lightening up on the crimp to find out where they start to slip a little to find the sweet spot. I hope I can find the time to get out one more time and shoot before I leave again.

[Frank]

subsonic:

I also wonder what affect having an oversized driving band against the edge of the cylinder throat would have on things.
Oversized isn't good because it won't chamber. The best is to have what I have, the perfect size. It slips right in with maybe a slight nudge. I don't want any sizing in the cylinder either. People who let the cylinder size it must have too much jump, so there is a built in weakness. Why have any weaknesses? Do it right from the start.

[44man]

All in all, it is not hard to get accuracy with a revolver.
I had a LOT of trouble long ago with RCBS dies. I figured the problem while seating one day. Not a single bullet felt the same and I could just let the handle go on some while I had to force other bullets in.
I had special BR dies made for the .44 using collars. A real pain to use but they worked.
It was the expander on the RCBS, too long and fat.
I found Hornady dies worked almost as good as my custom dies. The expander is the right size and SHORT so the base of a bullet goes into unexpanded brass.
Now that is a problem with soft lead so I made boolits harder.
Other experiments with lube, primers and ogive shapes made cast even more accurate then most jacketed. It is hard to beat the XTP bullets though.
During my experiments I made the addition to my presses to measure seating pressure and by sorting loads I shot 79 out of 80 at IHMSA. All shots to 200 meters were center hits but I screwed up on the last ram, my mind was gone! [smilie=l: After 20 straight turkeys and 19 rams I fell apart.
Now take my .44 SBH. It is SLOPPY with .4324" throats, a .430" groove and large chambers, so large fired brass and even some FL brass will not fit other guns. Yet it will shoot a cast boolit of .430" as well as one .432".
Nit picking and funny ideas will not help. It is just a few basic things that can't change and I have tried for years to pass on what I have found. It is true that I can shoot a revolver better then a lot of rifles. And I have done it to 500 meters (547 yards.) Both WLN and WFN boolits too.
In the end it starts with the brass and how you prepare it, it is far more important then you would ever think but it is the very hardest to solve.
So if you have a good load and put 3 shots touching, then 2 above or below and still touching, Look at the brass, that is what did the dirty deed. It is the reason BR shooters shoot and load the same 5 cases over and over right at the bench.

[Frank]

Great accuracy tips. There is no reason for any leading though. That maybe acceptable for some, but why compromise? If Bullet A gives leading and Bullet B doesn't, then which one do you choose? If Lube A gives you no leading but Lube B does some, which is desirable?
There is a lot subsonic could do. If he got a good bullet with a GC on it that would cure his leading. A good bullet, GC and proper lube would likely cure his problem and he would be posting his groups instead of his leading, but he chose one method, didn't adjust and now just has bad results. Oh well! :grin:

[subsonic]

I appreciate the mention, but this is saz's thread.

I plan to experiment, but flat ran out of time before hunting season. I only posted the lead piles for the benefit of others. I know what lead is and looks like in a barrel.

[saz]

I am actually having good luck with accuracy, just didn't know why I got leading the second time around. I think it has to do with bhn and maybe my lube. I have been going over some notes and it seems I have never really tested this.lube much under 30 degrees. I have a bunch loaded with dip lubed alox boolits- no other changes. I am wending a few of my boolits to a friend that can get me a bhn # for me. I am still pretty new to pistol shooting at longer ranges so I still have a bit of work to do on my end also. Lots of fun!

[Frank]

saz:

I think it has to do with bhn and maybe my lube.
That could very well be. You picked a PB with a 500 S&W, plus maybe a soft alloy. The lube you use is that much more crucial. If it leaded that means one of those variables overcame the lube. Why fool around with different lubes? Go with a proven winner. I would get at least a pack of LBT Blue if you have a lubsizer, LBT soft if it's a push thru Lee. Water dropped the WW's since you have PB. Don't go softer.

And get a BH tester! That's like walking blindfolded.

[saz]

I have never had a problem with the lube I was using before, then again I had never tested it with a PB boolit either. I thought I had, but after going through all my notes seems I haven't. I have 25 more loaded up (WDWW + ALOX)and I'm heading to the range tomorrow. Should be a little warmer than it was today, it got all the way up to -7* this afternoon. Calling for a balmy 17 tomorrow. [smilie=w: A BH tester is on the list of things to get. I have never had an issue with needing to know for sure until now. What is a good one to get? I have never used one.

Thanks for all the good tips gentlemen. I appreciate it all very much!

[44man]

I have been having a little accuracy problems with a batch. I found that ingot Bioman gave me, super hard stuff, I added it to some WW's a while back and there was still some in the pot. Even adding more WW's has not improved it.
I have no idea what was in the ingot but boolits only test 18 BHN while my plain WW's go 22 BHN, water dropped.
The ingot sounded like steel dropped on the floor and would hardly dent, maybe it was loaded with tin????
I have to clean my revolver today, the cylinder pin is mucked up so I will clean the bore and let you know what I find.
It is going to rain but I will have to shoot it before morning.
Never hunt with a clean gun!

[Chihuahua Floyd]

It's been my experience that if you shoot revolvers with lead bullets..factory or self-cast..you might as well invest in a 'Lewis Lead-remover' set-up in whatever calibers you shoot.

Same for semi-autos.


I've shot lead for 30+ years, only had one revolver show any signs of leading.
I have several that have never seen jacketed bullets since I bought them new.
CF

[44man]

OK, I cleaned the gun and used Butch's Bore Shine patches with a tight jag. ROUGH for the first patch and lead flakes. Two patches and it was all out. I brushed and wiped a lot with no more lead.
It is the stupid alloy I made. Now I am going down to shoot.
Nothing I can do until the alloy is all gone, I will not waste it or try to mix it. I have 10# left.
I got the pin and hole clean, put fresh STP on it and the ratchet and it spins as smooth as glass.

[Frank]

44man:

OK, I cleaned the gun and used Butch's Bore Shine patches with a tight jag. ROUGH for the first patch and lead flakes. Two patches and it was all out. I brushed and wiped a lot with no more lead.
It is the stupid alloy I made. Now I am going down to shoot.
Nothing I can do until the alloy is all gone, I will not waste it or try to mix it. I have 10# left.
I got the pin and hole clean, put fresh STP on it and the ratchet and it spins as smooth as glass.
I cleaned mine yesterday to see what I find. Nothing! When I push wet patches through the bore tight and look carefully for any evidence of lead there is none. Now how does a blunt nose bullet make a jump into the rifling and go through full power with no evidence? I have everything working in my favor. Gun has proper dimensions and good bore condition, proper bullet design, not SWC, hard alloy to resist deformation, best lube and GC to clean it out for the next shot. Now I can quit worrying about 'leading' and focus on loads, which I am doing and it makes it much more interesting. :coffeecom

[44man]

44man:

I cleaned mine yesterday to see what I find. Nothing! When I push wet patches through the bore tight and look carefully for any evidence of lead there is none. Now how does a blunt nose bullet make a jump into the rifling and go through full power with no evidence? I have everything working in my favor. Gun has proper dimensions and good bore condition, proper bullet design, not SWC, hard alloy to resist deformation, best lube and GC to clean it out for the next shot. Now I can quit worrying about 'leading' and focus on loads, which I am doing and it makes it much more interesting. :coffeecom
Stay with it. I am going to post a new one, I shot the .500 JRH with a clean bore.

[Frank]

Good! Can't wait! :smile:

[Frank]

Chihuahua Floyd:

I've shot lead for 30+ years, only had one revolver show any signs of leading.
I have several that have never seen jacketed bullets since I bought them new.
CF
At what power level? At lower power levels anything can shoot with no leading.

[44man]

Chihuahua Floyd:

At what power level? At lower power levels anything can shoot with no leading.
Not so my friend, the .38 was the absolute worst. The entire outside of the guns would be covered in lead and there was no rifling to be seen.
Lower power levels almost always means fast powder with a hard initial thump and soft lead goes to pot.
In my opinion, the .38 should be shot with 30 BHN boolits.

[Frank]

44man:

Not so my friend, the .38 was the absolute worst. The entire outside of the guns would be covered in lead and there was no rifling to be seen.
Lower power levels almost always means fast powder with a hard initial thump and soft lead goes to pot.
In my opinion, the .38 should be shot with 30 BHN boolits.
What I should have said was not getting leading at low power levels doesn't mean it will work at high power levels. But as you point out with BH30 bullet in .38, What works at high power levels, will work at low power levels.

[Frank]

saz:

A BH tester is on the list of things to get. I have never had an issue with needing to know for sure until now. What is a good one to get? I have never used one.
This is the best one.

http://lbtmoulds.com/images/image32.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

I have to politely disagree with frank. Ive had the seaco and the lbt and got rid of both of them the first time i tried my cabintree tester.
saz:

This is the best one.

http://lbtmoulds.com/images/image32.jpg

[44man]

Might be so but I consider BHN readings of any sort to be like a hand grenade, close is good enough! [smilie=l:
Too many alloys of the same BHN with one that shoots great, no leading while another is junk.

[Frank]

44man:

Might be so but I consider BHN readings of any sort to be like a hand grenade, close is good enough!
Too many alloys of the same BHN with one that shoots great, no leading while another is junk.
A PB needs perfect alloy. A GC shoots anything! [smilie=l:

[saz]

Well, I didnt get a chance to hit the range today. Warmed up just enough for it to start snowing like crazy, so I took my son to an indoor playground instead. Not a lot of time left for "father & son" things before I take off.

I am still kind of a rookie to this casting stuff- only been casting for 5 years or so. It sure is FUN though! I will get this 500 straightened out. I figure I tackled one of the more difficult projects out there- getting a BPCR to shoot ACCURATELY with BP. My sharps is the most accurate rifle I own.

[Frank]

44man:

if case tension varies, no cigar!
Cast bullets grow disproportionally also. This affects tension. Alloy is funky, I have to size them again. Lube is in the grooves, but that is OK because I have LBT Blue Soft. With Blue Soft I can run them through the sizer again and again through the Lee because it gets all over. :veryconfu

The Lee sizer is preferred for the re-run because with a lubesizer there are alignment issues. But with tricks there that also can be overcome.