Baby steps: Range session

[mustanggt]

Went to the range today to try getting on paper my first PP attempt. BACO .444, 525gr money, BACO paper, Starline 45/70 new,sized 2.1", neck sized case, patched to bore, WLR primers, 75grs 3F Swiss, 75grs 3F KIK, .060 Walters wad over powder/over lube (my Emmerts), 1/8" lube wad. Boolit was only 1/8" into case. I used that Rooster stuff to roll the patch on the boolit. I rubbed a little boolit lube on paper to make it easier to slide into the case. Fit was pretty snug but I did not crimp in any way. All I did was compress to my normal greaser load then used the above the rest of the way. I have to push hard on the cartridge to seat it into the bore. Got a breach seat tool from Steve Rhodes coming to make that easier. Rifle is C. Sharps, #1 heavy barrel 1 in 18" twist, mid range soule, globe/spirit level front. It's not great but it aint bad either. It's a decent start. Fouling control was blow tube 3 puffs and wipe after 5 rounds. The target has shots on the outside working in with sight adjustments the ones in the black are the last 5 in a row. New computer, having problems uploading through managing my attachments. Picture of fired case was one of two that had a partial paper ring out of 25 rounds. Tell me what you think. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/190it.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/192d.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/193ft.jpg/

[Don McDowell]

I'ld maybe seat a little deeper.
Instead of putting bullet lube on the patch, maybe just chamfer the inside of the case mouth to help with the ease of seating.
I'ld also think about dropping the powder charge 5 grs with that 3f.
Are you resizing the cases?

[mustanggt]

I did chamfer and deburr, lube was very little just to make it easier to slip it in. They are new cases that I just necked in RCBS cowboy die. My thought is to continue to neck size them. I'll try adjusting the powder and seating deeper. How much deeper? Another 1/8"? Maybe I could change my wads to .030"? Thanks Don.

[Don McDowell]

Keep the 60 wad on the powder.
might mess with the seating depth until there's less resistance when chambering around.
The throat on my CSA is pretty dang short so you can seat a patched bullet really deep and still get the patch into the rifling when chambering.

[Lead pot]

If your going to use a cartridge seater with a PP bullet you will kill all the accuracy the load is capable off.
There is a difference between a breach seater and a cartridge seater.
A breach seater pushes the bullet into the throat with out the case.
A cartridge seater cams the cartridge with the bullet seated in the case tight into the throat or fouled throat.
This is a breach seating tool.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_1182.jpg
This is a cartridge seating tool I made.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_1210.jpg

[mustanggt]

Thank you for the help fellas. I was not aware that the breach or cartridge seating tool was two different things. I am ordering the cartridge seating tool. So based on what I have told you I'm seating the boolit too deep into the lands. So if I back off from that say .125" that would still keep me straight and just a slight bit of contact with the lands? Just curious as to why seating into the lands too much would kill accuracy? I know seating too far off will allow the bullet to possiby cant too much to one side right? I appreciate all your guys knowlege, experience and answering my questions with patience.

[Don McDowell]

You're experiencing the same thing I did, and came to figure out why paper patching became obscolete when they got the grease groove thing down pat.... Lots of variables that can bugger the load, including how far up the bullet the patch comes.. Ned Roberts wrote about the difference a lube could make in accuracy....
But yes as long as you have some of the bullet into the bore it will be as centered as it needs to be. Technically the breechblock holding the rim of the case solidly into the chamber, should keep your loaded round "centered".

[Lead pot]

The thing with the cartridge seater using a PP bullet in a fouled throat is you will get uneven bullet release and that huts the accuracy and you also might damage the patch (pushing it back) causing more friction and causing extreme variances.
Also using the seater will crush the lube wad changing the seating depth of the bullet from round to round.
With your .444 diameter bullet patched with the BA paper unless it is more then 0018" thick your bullet should chamber with out a problem just using your thumb if your controlling the fouling.
I use a .446 unpatched bullet with out using anything but my thumb seating the round.
I carry the cartridge seater when hunting in case I need to have a follow up shot if I dont load right for a hunting load.

[mustanggt]

Kurt I notice that your bullet base just has the paper folded under the edge. My bullet base is completely covered and overlapped. Is that a point of potential concern?

[Lead pot]

I dont think it makes any difference that I find.