1911 barrel rifling for cast bullets

[kennyb]

Gentlement, I'd like to hear your point of view about what works best for accuracy in a model 1911 using CB, deep or shallow rifling. I'm loading for a Rock Island full sized 1911 and in the process of trying to get better accuracy out of it. I'm loading 230 gr round nose out of a Saeco mold. I've tried BullsEye, Unique and 231. Getting about 3 1/2 inch groups at 15 yds. I've installed a Ed Brown barrel bushing and have better sights ordered. I'm thinking about a barrel with deeper rifling as the Rock Island is very shallow. Your thoughts?
Thanks KennyB

[odfairfaxsub]

Gentlement, I'd like to hear your point of view about what works best for accuracy in a model 1911 using CB, deep or shallow rifling. I'm loading for a Rock Island full sized 1911 and in the process of trying to get better accuracy out of it. I'm loading 230 gr round nose out of a Saeco mold. I've tried BullsEye, Unique and 231. Getting about 3 1/2 inch groups at 15 yds. I've installed a Ed Brown barrel bushing and have better sights ordered. I'm thinking about a barrel with deeper rifling as the Rock Island is very shallow. Your thoughts?
Thanks KennyB

i hate my shallow rifling in my 1911. if you can reference what a xd looks like rifling wise thats nearly perfect. mine looks like it was shot 8000 times with hot powder then sold to the public and i have more clean up issues than with my xds slightly deeper rifling

[Moondawg]

Shallow rifling in 1911 barrels has worked with cast bullets for almost a hundred years. Before worrying about the depth of the rifling and accuracy, I would worry about how well the barrel was fitted to the slide and frame, how well the slide and frame were fitted etc. In other words, accuratized 1911s shot much better than loosy goosey 1911s do. Next, load a bullet that is more accurate than the 230 gr RN. Try a 185 gr or 200 gr SWC. Don't try and really hot loads, and you don't need hard cast bullets. 45 ACP like the faster powders, some outstanding powders in the 45 ACP are bullseye, red dot, WST, titegroup ,and W231/HP-38, to name a few. Not to say you can't use the medium burning powders, but the above named have a history of working very well in the 45APC and you don't need as much of them.

[98Redline]

Shallow rifling in 1911 barrels has worked with cast bullets for almost a hundred years. Before worrying about the depth of the rifling and accuracy, I would worry about how well the barrel was fitted to the slide and frame, how well the slide and frame were fitted etc. In other words, accuratized 1911s shot much better than loosy goosey 1911s do. Next, load a bullet that is more accurate than the 230 gr RN. Try a 185 gr or 200 gr SWC. Don't try and really hot loads, and you don't need hard cast bullets. 45 ACP like the faster powders, some outstanding powders in the 45 ACP are bullseye, red dot, WST, titegroup ,and W231/HP-38, to name a few. Not to say you can't use the medium burning powders, but the above named have a history of working very well in the 45APC and you don't need as much of them.

+1

As long as your bullet is not skidding through the rifling I don't think the depth of the rifling is nearly as important as Moondawg's points above.

My 1911 loves 185gr SWC bullets and will shoot nearly one hole groups with a ransom rest at 25 yards.

My load is 185gr SWC over 6.1gr of 231 and a Fed 150 primer.
It makes IPSC Major power factor is very accurate and controllable.

[Ragnarok]

I sometimes load a 230gr cast lead roundnose bullet in .45acp and .45 Colt....works fine in either application...comes out about .452(depending on alloy)

The only real issue might involve .45 Colt...I own a Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt...and I've been leery of using the roundnose bullets in that gun.

I don't think any of my .45 acp semi-auto's have deep rifling..the gun with the shallowest looking rifling is a Ballester Molina or a Sistema M1927(1911A1)..and they do fine with these bullets.

[Kraschenbirn]

Never gave rifling depth much thought before but the question kinda piqued my interest so I pulled four of my Gov't Models out and did a visual comparison using an LED borelite. Three of the four guns are Colts - two with factory barrels and one with a Clark - the fourth is a "parts gun" I built up,myself, using a Caspian frame, a G.I. slide, and Wilson barrel. Without actually slugging and measuring, my Mk1 eyeball can't really see any difference between the stock Colt barrels (one is a Series 70 GC, btw) and my "racegun's" Clark. Under the high intensity light, though, the grooves of the Wilson DO appear "sharper" than the others so they might be a bit deeper but, without slugging, who knows?

All four guns shoot considerably better than I can hold offhand with either a 225 gr. RN (RCBS) or a 200 gr SWC (H&G 68 clone), both cast from 50/50 WW/PB.

Bill

[BD]

I wouldn't worry too much about this question. As far as I know, there are no 1911 barrels available with anything other than "shallow" rifling.
BD

[missionary5155]

Greetings I would be careful to not undersize my boolits. I am under the opinion to use the fatest boolit that will still cycle reliably. They seem to get a good grip and have little trouble shooting 3" groups at 25 yards. I am rather happy with 6.5 grains Unique and the 230 grain RN types. Mike in Peru

[arjacobson]

I have recovered many 45 bullets from the backstop. They all had crisp rifling marks without any skidding. This is on a 1911. I always wondered if shallow rifling actually made leading less?

[Cannoneer]

Gentlement, I'd like to hear your point of view about what works best for accuracy in a model 1911 using CB, deep or shallow rifling. I'm loading for a Rock Island full sized 1911 and in the process of trying to get better accuracy out of it. I'm loading 230 gr round nose out of a Saeco mold. I've tried BullsEye, Unique and 231. Getting about 3 1/2 inch groups at 15 yds. I've installed a Ed Brown barrel bushing and have better sights ordered. I'm thinking about a barrel with deeper rifling as the Rock Island is very shallow. Your thoughts?
Thanks KennyB

Well, in my youth, I cast the boolits for my Colt Series 70 out of linotype and sized them to .452. I had fair accuracy out of it and little leading using both Lymans black graphite based lube as well as some Mirror Lube I bought from Gander Mountain back in 1975.

[HeavyMetal]

try loading domething other than 230 RN.

I was never happy weith any RN In my 1911's and over the years this has stayed a fact!

Borrow some LEE 200 Grain H&G COPY 68's load over 4.3 grains WW Super target with std Federal large pistol primer avoid Lee's FCD die like the plague!

[kennyb]

Thanks for your input guys. The reason I asked about rifling was because of something I had read on Ed Browns website stating their barrels had deeper rifling and they shot both cast and jacketed bullets very well. As my budget allows I'll try the 200 gr SWC bullets. Thanks guys.

[eveready]

Kennyb,
Years ago I was told that BarSto was the barrel to use in an 1911 if you wanted to shoot cast, supposedly because they cut the rifling deeper than most. I don't know how true this is. You might want to call BarSto if you would be considering a barrel change.

[Dale53]

I have three 1911 platforms. One is a seventy series Colt with a total rebuild including a National Match Barrel (everything to Bullseye match specs). The second is a proprietary frame with Colt slide and again a total rebuild to match specs. The third is an "as issued" Kimber CDP II with 3" barrel.

From a Ransom rest, the two full size 1911's, using my cast bullets (either H&G #130 swc or clone of the H&G #68 swc), shoots well under an inch at 25 yards and right at 2" or so at 50 yards.

Interesting enough, offhand, my little 3" will stay in the nine ring (ten shots) at 25 yards of the Timed Fire target.

My standard alloy is ww's + 2% tin.Bullets are sized at .452". Various powder charges seem to shoot about as well. Apparently, with the 1911 .45 ACP there are no "magic" powders. All reasonable powders seem to shoot well.

FWIW
Dale53

[trench]

Can you reliably group better than that with other 1911's, using the same ammo? I've seen guys who didn't chamfer case mouths, or even bell them properly, scraping bits of lead off of the sides of the bullets, who wondered why they got no accuracy! :-) I have little expeience with anything but Colt, Spld, and Essex-Sarco parts guns, but if the barrel is tight in the bushing and the bushing is tight in the slide, I've always obtained 2" or better at 25 yds, with good ammo, from the sitting braced firing position.