izh-27 em 1c double firing problem

[A^K]

recently i got new gun which is occurring double fires problem with single trigger pull
cleaned thoroughly but no cure at all,

any help?

[A^K]

hello ?
Anybody home?

[skeet1]

A^K,
I have no idea what kind of firearm you are talking about. I take it that it is some kind of semi-auto. When this condition occurs it is usually the disconector that is a fault but not knowing what kind of firearm we are talking about I'm not sure. I had a GI .45 auto that did this some times it would be 2 round and sometimes it would empty the magazine. when the disconector was replaced it stopped doing it.

Ken

[A^K]

its baikal's o/u shotgun with single trigger.

[Norbrat]

If you are asking this question, I assume you are not too experienced in tinkering with the firing mechanism of an O/U rifle/shotgun.

Trying to diagnose this without having the dismantled firing mechanism in front of you is impossible.

For example, how does the second barrel normally fire? Does the lock reset itself mechanically or does it do so from the recoil of the first shot?

My suggestion would be to take it to a gunsmith who is experienced in these. It may require nothing more than removing a burr or two from the internal parts.

Being a Russian made gun, it wouldn't surprise me if the internal parts are a bit rough.

[tomme boy]

Mine used to do this until I learned how to shoot it. The trigger has a very short reset. Hold the gun firm against your shoulder. I was actually pulling the trigger again without knowing it. It is called bump firing. The gun recoils off your shoulder and when it bounces back the trigger is reset without you feeling it. You are still trying to pull the trigger and this is where the second chamber goes off.

You could also go to the " shotgunworld " forum and ask there. They have a Baikil forum there.

[Norbrat]

Mine used to do this until I learned how to shoot it. The trigger has a very short reset. Hold the gun firm against your shoulder. I was actually pulling the trigger again without knowing it. It is called bump firing. The gun recoils off your shoulder and when it bounces back the trigger is reset without you feeling it. You are still trying to pull the trigger and this is where the second chamber goes off.

Good point.

I suppose a way to check this is to shoot at a large paper target at about 15yds and see if both loads go into that, in which case both barrels are firing together, or if one load goes higher than the other, which would suggest the second barrel is going off under recoil.

[A^K]

thank you norbrat
I think after two days of browsing on internet finally i meet the right person well i am not new with guns so tomme boy problem is out of subject here,
gun is new i fired about 100 shots and it doubled 9 times
autolock is ok
When firing on snap caps everything goes fine.
When it double 2nd fire bangs slightly late
its new so i can replace aswell but i wana play with myself
letme check everything thoroughly.

[Norbrat]

Another thought; does it depend on which barrel you fire first?

[A^K]

yet i did not try swap selection
ill try when its normal behavior would work smoothly
Atm i shoot bottom one and upper bangs auto after 1/4th of moment
every 5th or 6th pair is doubling
after thoroughly cleaning and passing comressed air no changes were made

[Norbrat]

Are you Hunter95 here? http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/how-fix-double-fire-izh-27-em-1c-51591/

Same questions, same answers.

[A^K]

yep why ?
is that illeagle act?
K

Are you Hunter95 here? http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f33/how-fix-double-fire-izh-27-em-1c-51591/

Same questions, same answers.

[tomme boy]

You need to learn how to shoot the gun. That is the only thing that is wrong.

[A^K]

so you mean theres no issue with baikals
Most of guys facing same problem and after eaa fixup they never had same issue again
Still you think its problem of pulling trigger?
If so whats the trick involved.?
Good day.
K



You need to learn how to shoot the gun. That is the only thing that is wrong.

[tomme boy]

Hold the gun firm and do not sqeeze the trigger slowly.

[A^K]

its really hard to change natural style you can do it pretty easily in skeet/trap because you mentally ready to bang but
Very hard when bird flush and you got 2 moments to do all jobs
i don't skeet but hunting all seasons.
Cheers
K.

[wiljen]

In reading back through this, I think Tomme is on to the root cause. (Although he could have stated it a bit more gracefully). If everything works fine when recoil is not involved, then in some way recoil is involved in the issue. Either it is a short reset and bump fire, or the recoil is causing the lock to fail due to a burr or other defect. I would have a gunsmith rule out the second possibility and then decide if you can live with the first or if a trade on a gun with a longer trigger reset might better suit you.

[Cap'n Morgan]

My first shotgun was a Baikal 27e with double triggers. I thought a single trigger would be cool, so I made my own system. On paper and when dry firing everything worked fine, but ever so often I ran into inexplicable double-shots when shooting the gun, and I ended up in going back to the double triggers again. Only later did I learn about bump fire and the "ghost" trigger pull and why a delay mechanism is necessary to prevent it.

All delay mechanisms are based on inertia and are activated by recoil. Some work by disengaging the trigger for a short while during recoil, others work the other way around and will only drop the second hammer after the recoil from the first shot has triggered it. The latter system tends to be the most reliable, but will not let you fire the second shot if the first one misfires and sometimes it will not work with very light loads.

I don't know what system the Baikal uses, but since you can snap fire both barrels it's probably of the disengaging type, meaning either it doesn't disengage long enough or it doesn't disengage at all. I would try swapping the return spring in the pendulum with a weaker one to see if the problem gets worse - in which case you'll probably need a stronger one... [smilie=1:

[robertbank]

Sounds like you are Bump firing the gun as has been stated. I shoot a lot of IDPA with DA/SA guns where I ride the trigger for fast double taps. Every once in awhile I shoot CDP Division with a 1911 with a sub 3# trigger. If I don't go out and practice with it before a match I bump fire the darn thing every match at least once. Not good. I am willing to bet you are doing the same thing.

Good luck

Take Care

Bob

[excess650]

I bought a Baikal O/U from a guy who also reported it doubling on him. [smilie=l: I was just looking for a "utility gun" that I didn't have to worry about dragging through the brush. For the price I paid, I figured its a heavy singleshot at worst, and I couldn't have bought a used H&R for the price.

I've toyed with it with snap caps, and no problems doubling regardless of which barrel is fired first. The trigger pull seems long and heavy to me, and seems to require a deliberate release of the trigger prior to pulling again. It doesn't seem to be of the inertia reset variety. I'll have to fire some live shells through it and see how it performs.

[skeettx]

Hello A^K

I have and shoot these Baikal O/Us, I have found no real issues with them. They are built STRONG.
I have a 12 ga and 16 ga O/U IZH-27s and a 30-06 Double trigger O/U IZH-94.

OK, here are a few things that can be done.

First, pull the stock and see if there is ANY rubbing between the wood and trigger mechanism.
If so, remove a slight bit of interferring wood.

Second, did the doubling occur while you were wearing gloves? Cold this time of year. Often
the gloves being soft and having a rebound capability can cause doubling.

Third, to tell if the IZH-27 is really doubling and not slam fireing, put one live shell in the gun and one empty and see if they both eject when the gun is opened. Listen for the second hammer fall when you shoot, should provide valuable info

Please report back

Mike

[tcrocker]

I had the same problem with a sxs single trigger and after letting a a co worker shoot it, it didn't double fire so I came to the conclusion that it was the way I was shooting it. I was holding the trigger back like I was shooting a rifle and as the best I can tell that the trigger was reseting on recoil like I was doing a bump fire. Hope this helps.