Winchester Olin

[Blammer]

FYI.

I shot my 25 WSSM the other day.

I was using new cases.

5 of the 10 shots split from the case mouth all the way to the body.

I was concerned.

Contacted Olin, they called me back in a timely manner.

We spoke, they wanted the brass, the fired ones and all the new ones too, gave me a UPS call ticket to get the brass.

The gentleman said I'd likely get a replacement voucher for the brass.

It's waiting for UPS to pickup now.

More as the story unfolds, but so far kudos to Olin for the customer service. :)

[GRUMPA]

Having worked in manufacturing for the better part of my life, I have a suspicion about most U.S. manufacturers.

Without going thru boring details, and hitting the nail on the head. Most manufacturers in the U.S. sub-contract products to the lowest bidder. I don't care who makes it whose name is on it there is some part(s) made on foreign soil with the U.S. makers name.

I can tell stories you wouldn't believe to the point most actually wont believe and still the end result remains.

If there's a way to make a product cheaper somehow somewhere it can and will be done.

My suspicions are things that used to be made in U.S.A. are now not, all because of the almighty dollar. With a made in U.S.A. sticker on, only in reality it's the sticker that was made in the U.S.A., that has been going on for years.

[cutter_spc]

FYI.

but so far kudos to Olin for the customer service. :)


Tha;ts good to hear about them sending you a pick up, a lot better than the service I have gotten from Redding recently, I've had to send a mold back twice on my dime and it still ain't right, they did send me a hat though[smilie=p:

[Bret4207]

Having worked in manufacturing for the better part of my life, I have a suspicion about most U.S. manufacturers.

Without going thru boring details, and hitting the nail on the head. Most manufacturers in the U.S. sub-contract products to the lowest bidder. I don't care who makes it whose name is on it there is some part(s) made on foreign soil with the U.S. makers name.

I can tell stories you wouldn't believe to the point most actually wont believe and still the end result remains.

If there's a way to make a product cheaper somehow somewhere it can and will be done.

My suspicions are things that used to be made in U.S.A. are now not, all because of the almighty dollar. With a made in U.S.A. sticker on, only in reality it's the sticker that was made in the U.S.A., that has been going on for years.

Bingo! In the early 80's I saw Timberland Boots being made, and the "Made in the USA" tag being sewn on, in South Korea. Does anyone really believe Kimbers are made in Yonkers? Come on!

[MtGun44]

Bret,

So I'm pretty ignorant about Kimbers. Where are they actually made? Silly me, I
thought that they were actually made there, never heard any different. I have a
Kimber that I have shot a whole lot, but I don't know squat about the company.

Bill

[ErikO]

Having worked in manufacturing for the better part of my life, I have a suspicion about most U.S. manufacturers.

Without going thru boring details, and hitting the nail on the head. Most manufacturers in the U.S. sub-contract products to the lowest bidder. I don't care who makes it whose name is on it there is some part(s) made on foreign soil with the U.S. makers name.

I can tell stories you wouldn't believe to the point most actually wont believe and still the end result remains.

If there's a way to make a product cheaper somehow somewhere it can and will be done.

My suspicions are things that used to be made in U.S.A. are now not, all because of the almighty dollar. With a made in U.S.A. sticker on, only in reality it's the sticker that was made in the U.S.A., that has been going on for years.

Coming off of a 15 year run as a Manufacturing-based IT guy, I agree. Heck, the stickers are typically printed in Mexico unless there's a union stamp on the paper...

Glad to hear Olin's going to do right by you, OP. I seriously hope that the subcontractor that formed your brass looses business over this!

[ErikO]

Bret,

So I'm pretty ignorant about Kimbers. Where are they actually made? Silly me, I
thought that they were actually made there, never heard any different. I have a
Kimber that I have shot a whole lot, but I don't know squat about the company.

Bill

I can't speak to Kimber, but KelTec and Hi-Point are all made here, every bit of them. That's why there's such a backorder on the 4095TS, the PMR30 and the PLR16's

[Harter66]

I sent some 22-250 back some years ago . Winchester sent me a brief investigation letter that concluded all was as it should have been . They also sent $50 in vouchers for replacement products . At that time it bought 50 ea 25-06,22-250,45Colts,I added some cash for the Colts and tax I think.

Not that it matters here. We were shooting 10 shot strings the 18th rnd dropped a primer out in the action 15-17 showed gas leaks . My final conclusion was that that old MK X didn't cool fast enough for that kind of shooting.

[mroliver77]

My suspicions are things that used to be made in U.S.A. are now not, all because of the almighty dollar. With a made in U.S.A. sticker on, only in reality it's the sticker that was made in the U.S.A., that has been going on for years.

Ya,
like Ford, Chevy, lot of our military supplies etc.
J

[Bret4207]

Bret,

So I'm pretty ignorant about Kimbers. Where are they actually made? Silly me, I
thought that they were actually made there, never heard any different. I have a
Kimber that I have shot a whole lot, but I don't know squat about the company.

Bill

Bill, ASSEMBLED in Yonkers, that I can buy. Assembled from parts contracted out to a bidder, just like a lot of other makers. Betcha' there's a goodly amount of imported parts in them. If someone has proof that they actually make all the parts right there in Yonkers, well, it goes against everything I've seen.

Truth is "Made in the USA" means squat these days. Assembled int he USA, from parts from Canada, Mexico, China, India, South Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, Spain, Turkey, Brazil, Argentina...wherever. No one is mining the ore to produce the steel to send to the foundry to pass on to the machinists to pass on to be finished and then assembled all in the USA.

Sorry to pick on Kimber. The same could be said for Ford, Caterpillar, Harley, Snap On, John Deere, Levis...pretty much anything.

[no34570]

Bill, ASSEMBLED in Yonkers, that I can buy. Assembled from parts contracted out to a bidder, just like a lot of other makers. Betcha' there's a goodly amount of imported parts in them. If someone has proof that they actually make all the parts right there in Yonkers, well, it goes against everything I've seen.

Truth is "Made in the USA" means squat these days. Assembled int he USA, from parts from Canada, Mexico, China, India, South Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, Spain, Turkey, Brazil, Argentina...wherever. No one is mining the ore to produce the steel to send to the foundry to pass on to the machinists to pass on to be finished and then assembled all in the USA.

Sorry to pick on Kimber. The same could be said for Ford, Caterpillar, Harley, Snap On, John Deere, Levis...pretty much anything.
Sadly,it is happening here in Australia too and the government don't care that we all are loosing our jobs,very sad!:sad:

[geargnasher]

A few years ago a customer of mine, who was finally ready to retire his clunker, asked if he could buy a car made in the USA anymore. I said, sure, buy a Honda!

Gear

[bearcove]

Yes very confusing!

I read about a Toyota product, think it was a Camry, had the highest percentage of Made in the USA of any car in its class.

[P.K.]

Yes very confusing!

I read about a Toyota product, think it was a Camry, had the highest percentage of Made in the USA of any car in its class.

"Georgetown, KY.":wink:

[Alvarez Kelly]

"Georgetown, KY.":wink:

Yep. One of those KY Camrys sits in my driveway, after our Buick lunched it's second engine...

[MtGun44]

A friend retired a few years back after a career as a steel salesman. He insisted on buying Hondas because he said that they had far more US steel in them than Ford, GM or Chrysler.

Bill

[Rusty W]

I bought some new Win 22-250 Rem brass about a year ago. 3 cases had split necks right out of the bag. Lost 3 more after the 1st firing. I've read several posts on the net about Winchesters products being less that stellar. Poor pics but maybe you can see the split right down the neck.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51/RWoolever/22%20250/12-24-10_2122.jpg

[Lee]

Vietnam?? GD make me want ta puke. Just because unka bama says we hafta like them don't mean we hafta like them.
Given the option of squattin on a flat rock ta say "Hi!" ta them that's all I will ever have ta say ta them.

GD GOOKS ..... Lee:evil:

[Adam10mm]

Bill, ASSEMBLED in Yonkers, that I can buy. Assembled from parts contracted out to a bidder, just like a lot of other makers. Betcha' there's a goodly amount of imported parts in them. If someone has proof that they actually make all the parts right there in Yonkers, well, it goes against everything I've seen.

You do know that Kimber has one of the largest MIM foundries in the US, located in Yonkers, right? I think only Smith & Wesson's MIM foundry is larger than Kimber.

[Bret4207]

If you can provide verifiable proof that the whole of the gun is produced in Yonkers from 100% American made metals, woods and plastics. please do so.

[Blammer]

USPS picked up the package, so I should be receiving a reply any day now.

[Adam10mm]

If you can provide verifiable proof that the whole of the gun is produced in Yonkers from 100% American made metals, woods and plastics. please do so.
Whole gun? Doubt it.

[KCSO]

Back to Winchester I had a problem with new 44 mag brass. I sent in the brass and got a nice vouvher for more brass but they LOST the samples I sent in so they could not tell if they were defective. The last Winchester 45-70 brass i bought had cases with rims from too small for the ejector to catch to too big to chamber! I contacted Winchester and they said send it in and we'll let you know. They never got it, somehow! I won't handle Winchester brass anymore.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
YIKES! I have 1000's of WW brass, it is my favorite in my 2- 7MM'S.
Of course most of it is older scrounged range brass, but just the same, I hate to hear this.:Fire::Fire:

[Bret4207]

Whole gun? Doubt it.

No problem. That's the thing these days, nothing is "Made in America". In fact, I'm getting to think that stamp means nothing. Assembled, boxed or marketed in the USA, yeah.

I forget which company it was but I caught a gun commercial on TV the other night where they were bragging on being made in the US. Every worker they showed was either Phillipino or Brazilian or Mexican or something. I rather doubt anyone was supposed to catch that.

[Adam10mm]

I know that Federal Premium ammunition is actually loaded by Norma in Sweden. Winchester White Box USA is loaded in Turkey.

[deltaenterprizes]

I was told S&W 1911s and Kimbers are the same gun with different name same parts.

[GRUMPA]

Well being the kind of guy I am I just figured that in todays world people think that a company that's based in the U.S.A. makes what they sell here on domestic soil. Which I stated already is further from the truth than most people realize.

My main focus on this was that if there is a cheaper way of doing something it generally means it's made abroad.

I have for years (over 20) that the so-called American made ammunition really isn't to the point I was starting to notice subtle differences in headstamps many years ago.

Just as a reference 1 type of 40cal headstamp looks like this PMC, -PMC-, .PMC. so I notice 3 distinct headstamps. Now 1 very important rule in manufacturing is you never change anything out that works. Those stamping dies work forever and when made your a fool if you don't make at least more than one for the just in case there's a problem that will pop up.

But when made it's normally done with CNC equipment that works from a program that never goes away, never gets deleted and when done correctly always repeats itself.

I have from time to time tried to find out where all this stuff is made as far as ammunition is concerned because I get lip from folks because I only use my reloaded stuff.

So "IF" someone out there can provide verifiable "PROOF" where brand x is made I for one would just be thrilled to see it, and not hear-say but undisputed fact.

I don't mean to MORPH this post but it should follow the original post rather closely.

[felix]

It will be made by the lowest bidder. Quality control is up to the inspectors up and down the line, and this I will guarantee you, Grumpa: Every lot an any item made will be different than the previous. So, the ultimate quality control person is YOU!!!! ... felix

[Adam10mm]

I was told S&W 1911s and Kimbers are the same gun with different name same parts.
No. This rumor was dispelled years ago on many forums.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have noticed at least 4 different head stamps in both R-P, & 4 different head stamps (at least) in WW brass.
THANKS THIS EXPLAINS THAT!
I have wondered about it for some time.:Fire::Fire:

[NSP64]

Olin is closing the plant in Alton, IL. and moving it some where cheaper.








Alabama if memory serves right.:groner:

[Echo]

My suspicions are things that used to be made in U.S.A. are now not, all because of the almighty dollar.

Don't blame the almighty dollar - blame the people that would rather buy price than buy quality. The companies HAVE to make a profit - without profit, they are belly-up. The market place should decide whether quality rules, or whether price rules. Most folks on this forum will acknowledge that quality is more important than price...

[Bret4207]

Well, that's true Echo. But if if I can't afford the good stuff I'm kinda stuck with the cheap, right? If the good stuff and cheap stuff were both within a couple percent of each other in price then it would be a no brainer. But usually the good stuff is 25-80% more. People can't swing that kind of price difference. And, face it, half the time the "good stuff" is no better than the cheap stuff- for instance, any American made car of the mid 70's to late 80's vs Japanese imports of the same period.

[casterofboolits]

Well, that's true Echo. But if if I can't afford the good stuff I'm kinda stuck with the cheap, right? If the good stuff and cheap stuff were both within a couple percent of each other in price then it would be a no brainer. But usually the good stuff is 25-80% more. People can't swing that kind of price difference. And, face it, half the time the "good stuff" is no better than the cheap stuff- for instance, any American made car of the mid 70's to late 80's vs Japanese imports of the same period.

Just got hit with a major price shock yesterday when checking for Winchester Silvertip pistol ammo. I prefer factory ammo in my self defense guns. My night stand pistol is a 38 Super EAA Witness loaded with Winchester Silver tips. I paid about $.15 per round about 25 years ago are now $.80!:holysheep Hopefully, they are made in the USA!

Luckily, I have 500 rounds stashed, so I'm good for life.:bigsmyl2: Plus 12,000 rounds of 38 Super brass and several Saeco and Lyman moulds for the Super. :cbpour:

[jlchucker]

Does the Olin Corp. still own a brass division? If so, where's the brass mill located? Once upon a time, Olin Brass was a US company that was part of Olin Corp. They supplied brass to other manufacturers for nearly everything made out of brass--from cartridge brass, to doorknobs, to a whole bunch of other stuff. Is that now a foreign enterprise?

[Harter66]

Winchester ammo is I believe owned by ATK under Federal. About 10 yrs ago Winchester was split ,basically Fedral got the ammo and Browning/FN got the guns. Federal was bought shortly there after by ATK shortly after they bought up the CCI ,Speer,RCBS families.

Made in the USA means that at least 60% of parts and 60% of the assembly was made/done here IIRC,by legal mandate.

[SCGunGuy]

Winchester ammo is I believe owned by ATK under Federal. About 10 yrs ago Winchester was split ,basically Fedral got the ammo and Browning/FN got the guns. Federal was bought shortly there after by ATK shortly after they bought up the CCI ,Speer,RCBS families.

Nope. Winchester ammo is not an ATK company.

[Blammer]

Well, I'm a happy camper! Just got my new brass today from Fedex.

Not a lot of hassle to get new brass, hope it works well for me.

Now to get some loaded up.

Graf & Son's sent the new brass to me and took the Winchester coupons, I'll have to start doing more business with them.

[ErikO]

G&S is good, I don't mind paying sales tax to them.