Reading patching

[cwskirmisher]

I am trying to get the best groups from my .54 halfstock Pennsylvania rifle. I shoot a .530 round ball and a .016 patch over 80 grains of 2F bp. I get groups that are fine at 50 yards, so I am shooting to point of aim with about a 4" group 2 inches high at 50 yds, measuring furthest shots from each other in the group. The group is about the size of a baseball. I started with a .520 ball, and group size was not acceptable. With a .530 I think the group is acceptable, only limited by the open sights and my eyes. I recovered two patches, and they show where the grooves engraved the patch/ball, and the patch is very thin (but not cut) where the ball engaged the rifling. There is a black circle on the breech side of the patch that I assume is from the powder ignition. What is a recovered proper fitting patch supposed to look like?

I am dipping the patches in melted beeswax/crisco mix and letting dry, then put them into a small ziplock ready for use. The lube on the fired patch is mostly gone, but the patch still feels a little bit slick, so I assume it did its job, as follow-on loading was not difficult.

[451 Pete]

:coffee:Skirfmisher,
From your discription it sounds like your patch is doing it's job pretty well. A recovered patch should pretty much look like what you have discribed here. You may be able to improve your groups a bit by playing with the patch thickness, RB diameter and powder charge a bit. Normally most rifles like a tight patch and ball combination to get the best accuracy. Keeping this in mind you could try a thicker patch material of .020 with the .530 RB or go to a .535 round ball ( Lee sells a mold for the .535 for around 25 bucks ) and your .016 patch.
You may also improve the accuracy of your load by varying your powder charge. As long as the patch is not burning thru you should be OK.

Hope this helps ...... Pete

[Omnivore]

What Pete said. Tighter is generally better than not-so-tight. I get slightly better groups than that with a fit that's so tight I have to lean onto the ball with most of my weight to get it started, and that's with heavy, 110 to 120 grain hunting charges that some say will rip patches and not shoot good groups. Your patches look about like mine it seems. I think you could do a bit better with the groups, but depending on the sights, you're getting into territory that depends a lot on eye balls, lighting conditions and hold and such.

The target itself and the sight picture play a role too. Using a black bull's eye target for example, I find it far easier to aim accurately using a six o'clock hold, so the front sight isn't inside the black, but the black is hovering over the top of the front sight post. All it means is that my groups are at the bottom of the bull, because I use a "combat hold" for zeroing. Stuff like that. At 55 yards I got about 1.5 to 2" with each of the two, three-shot groups I fired last time out. Now we're talking about shooting technique instead of patches, though it's all related.

[waksupi]

Sounds like you are dong well. Try weighing your balls, and I bet your group cuts at least an inch.

[cwskirmisher]

Thanks all -
I switched to a 6-oclock hold on the bull, and that helped tremendously - must be my 'center' hold was wandering around the bull since the sights and the bull are both black... the groups are about 2 - 2.5 inches now, just with that change alone.
I don't weigh the balls - rather I buy them swaged already. Sacriledge I know...:groner:
OK - since it seems there is consensus that my patch is doing OK - I am off to the woods tomorrow morning for my first outing of muzzle loading season... with better confidence.

Thanks all!!

[waksupi]

Just to educate yourself, weigh those swaged balls some time. You will be surprised what you have.

[405]

Surprised? Actually I've done it and wasn't surprised... pretty much as expected.

.495 Hornady Swaged, Sample size-10 random out of box, Mean weight- 182.69 gr., Standard Deviation- .27 gr.

.490 Lyman cast (lead + 1%tin), Sample size-10 random out of same batch, Mean weight- 171.35 gr., Standard Deviation- .61 gr.

[excess650]

OK - since it seems there is consensus that my patch is doing OK - I am off to the woods tomorrow morning for my first outing of muzzle loading season... with better confidence.

Thanks all!!

I'm just BACK from southern Va. I carried my Omega in the mornings on Saturday, Monday, and Tuesday. Just for a change of pace I took the .58 flinchrock Wednesday and took an 8 pointer. This afternoon I needed to unload the same rifle, and a longbeard (10-1/2")just happened to get in the way. My plan had been to stay at least through Saturday, and with MLer bear season opening then, I decided to get outa town before I shot a bear too!

[tomme boy]

Very nice!

[JeffinNZ]

With respect 4 inches at 50 yards is fairly average accuary. I am babysitting a .54 Lyman GPR and with a .530 ball and .024 patch it will shoot inch at that range; charge is 70gr 2Fg GOEX from memory.

[Hanshi]

Dang if you didn't do great in those woods! Patches sound okay but I would expect accuracy to be better. My accuracy ISN'T any better but that's only because I'm a crappy shot.

[excess650]

Dang if you didn't do great in those woods!

The buck was the best of those that I had seen (6th) until that point. He was a respectfully heavy mountain deer, and I ended with 75# of boned out meat. The shot was a "gimme" at 25-30 yards. The bucks were "pre-rut" and just cruising singly.

The turkey was in a flock of about a dozen birds, and it and another were similar sized body and beard. It was about 75 yards, downhill and offhand. I hit him high in the back so didn't ruin much. It weighed dressed a day later.

BTW, these are both flintlock firsts for me, so I'm thrilled.

[44man]

You really need to know the bore size in the rifle and the rifling depth. The best RB rifles will have .010" deep rifling.
I use a .535" ball and a .020" to .022" patch in my .54 with 100 gr of powder. I go to 120 gr for 200 yards.
You can't push them down without a short and long starter. It takes a large smack to start them, like a Karate chop, don't pull the smack. Then they go easy.
I use nothing but Young Country lube, it allows shooting all day without cleaning. If a ball gets tight, more lube on the next patch will cure it.
The most accurate will be when the ball is engraved .005" with the patch weave at the bottom of the grooves.
All of my RB rifles will make one ragged hole at 50 yards.
The worst thing ever was when TC started to make RB rifles with shallow rifling and had to go to balls too small. RB guns should have cut rifling, not broached.