308 win load

[Dave_D]

Before i get flamed i know this is my first post, i have tryed searching at the top ive typed everythign i can think of.

I am looking for a load for 308 win using 165 grain cast boolits and imr-3031

if anyone can help me out that would be great

Thanks

Dave

[TCLouis]

Lyman says for 311291 ( 169 grain) 2.510" COAL

3031 28.5 1868 21,000 39.5 2653 49800

28.5 was listed as accuracy load

39.5 is compressed powder charge

Winchester 81/2-120 Primer

[grullaguy]

I'll help Dave out.
He just bought some 165 grain, 309 diameter bevel base rounds from me. He has only IMR 3031 as a powder and was hoping to shoot these with it. I was not optimistic, but suggested he try this site for some help and advice.

These are the bullets that are on the way to Dave.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k554/boolitcaster/PB080424.jpg

[caseyboy]

Do they have aluminum checks on them or are the "plain base". If no checks, then the IMR 3031 loads will most likely not shoot worth a spit. You probably need to keep the speed down to 1200 to 1400fps max.

[Wayne S]

"ditto" on the lower speed, epically not knowing what Dave's rifle's throat Dia. is.
I'd suggest you tell Dave to get a pound of 2400 or Unique.
WHY doesn't the lower "grease groove" have any lube in it ??

[mrbill2]

What bullet mold was used to cast those bullets?

[frnkeore]

I'd have to suggest 14.0 to 18.5 4759 and put some lube in that last groove. I don't like bevel base bullets myself. They are much easier to gas cut.

Frank

[clearwater]

"I'd have to suggest 14.0 to 18.5 4759 and put some lube in that last groove."

+1.

For example, I have had good luck with bevel base like those by adding a layer of
Lee Alox tumble lube over the other wax and using 16 grains of IMR 4759.

[Dave_D]

The Workhorse Load - Mattern's "200 yard Target"

My favorite load is the most accurate. Mattern's so-called "200 yard target load." I expect 10 shot groups at 200 yards, firing prone rapid with sling to average 4-5". I shoot high Sharpshooter, low Expert scores across the course with an issue 03A3 or M1917, shooting in a cloth coat, using may cast bullet loads. The power of this load approximates the 32-40, inadequate for deer by today's standards. Mattern's "200 yard target load" is easy to assemble. Because it is a mild load, soft scrap alloys usually give better accuracy than harder ones, such as linotype. Local military collector-shooters have standardized on 16 grains of #2400 as the "universal" prescription. It gives around 1500 f.p.s. with a 150-180 grain cast bullet in almost any military caliber. We use 16 grains of #2400 as our reference standard, just as high power competitors use 168 Sierra Match Kings and 4895.

The only common military rifle cartridge in which 16 grains of #2400 provides a maximum load, and which must not be exceeded, is in the tiny 7.63x39mm case. Most SKS rifles will function reliably with charges of #2400 as light as 14 grains with the Lee 312-155-2R at around 1500 f.p.s. I designed this bullet especially for the 7.62x39, but it works very well as a light bullet in any .30 or .303 caliber rifle.

Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.



This taken from this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

am i way off considering this ? 24 grains does seem like alot

Thanks for the help so far guys, still hoping to find a usuable load with imr-3031 thoguh :S

Dave

[grullaguy]

"ditto" on the lower speed, epically not knowing what Dave's rifle's throat Dia. is.
I'd suggest you tell Dave to get a pound of 2400 or Unique.
WHY doesn't the lower "grease groove" have any lube in it ??

I got these bullets in a trade. I was using them when I started paper patching and did not have the correct moulds.

The missing lube is a puzzler. No idea what mould they were cast in, but they are cast quite hard.
The fellow I traded with told me they were .310 diameter, but most of them mike at .3095.

[caseyboy]

Dave D.

The advice above given by Harris is for a gas checked boolit. The ones pictured look unchecked so you would need to go with a slower velocity. Try harris's 100yd small game load. I think he was recommending 6-7 grains of a fast shotgun/pistol powder.

Mike

[Ben]

With that bevel base, count yourself real lucky if it shoots well with 8 grs. of Unique.

The .309 " dia. probably isn't running in your favor, or the bevel base either.

[caseyboy]

I would also try to get some "good" lube into that bottom grease groove. The upper blue lube band looks "hard". Or better yet, melt out all the blue lube (in an oven at low temp on a cookie sheet) and relube both bands with NRA 50/50 or similar.

PS. don't use any of the missus's stuff in the kitchen.

[Norbrat]

am i way off considering this ? 24 grains does seem like alot

Thanks for the help so far guys, still hoping to find a usuable load with imr-3031 thoguh :S

Dave

Using 24gns of 3031 would very likely result in heavy leading of your barrel.

At best you could use these bullets for a light plinking load.

3031 is too slow burning for a light load. Just reducing the amount of this type of powder substantially to try to get a low velocity load can result in a secondary explosion effect (S.E.E.) or detonation situation. This is one reason why powder makers list MINIMUM loads as well as maximum loads; do not use less than minimum.

At best you will get erratic, inconsistent powder burning and disappointing accuracy.

For low velocity loads in such a largish case, you need a faster powder as suggested by caseyboy. Another one to consider is Trail Boss; I use 11 gns behind a 160gn cast boolit in my .308; velocity is just over 1200fps, but accuracy is surprisingly good.

Keep your 3031 for loading behind gas checked boolits or for loading with J@cketed bullets.

[Dave_D]

The local store has trail boss, nothing else that was sugested.
so i might pick that up and work out a load with that

You say you use 11 grains would u say start there or start a little lower ?

Thanks again guys

Dave

[MT Chambers]

Maybe the maker was using a Star die that only had 1 set of lube holes.

[Bret4207]

See if you can get some Mule Snot (Lee Liquid Alox) and tumble lube them, it'll help. Trailboss might work, but using a bevel based boolit of unknown size with inadequate lube is a pretty good recipe for leading. At least do yourself a favor and get the bore spotlessly free of jacket fouling. And pick up some 4/0 steel wool, you may need it. Then again it might just work good enough for a plinking load. Only way to know is to try.

[Norbrat]

The local store has trail boss, nothing else that was sugested.
so i might pick that up and work out a load with that

You say you use 11 grains would u say start there or start a little lower ?

Thanks again guys

Dave

This is the "official" advice from ADI, the Australian company which makes the powder.

"Take an empty case in your particular calibre, fill it with Trail Boss to a point at which it would just touch the base of a seated bullet, and weigh that amount. Take 70 per cent of the result and use that as a starting load with a cast bullet of typical weight."

Generally, it seems this powder is quite safe right up to 100% of what would fit in the case to the base of the bullet, but it should never be crushed or compressed as it would break the donut shaped granules and possibly change it's burning rate.

By all means start at 8 gns and work up if you want, but 11 gns should be quite safe in a sound rifle.

In my rifle, the recoil is so mild it is almost like shooting a .22LR.

[caseyboy]

Norbert,

I find the same with 6 - 7 gr of Reddot in my 7-08. Great for offhand practice as you can break the shot and maintain follow thru and watch the bullet impact.

Mike

[Norbrat]

Norbert,

I find the same with 6 - 7 gr of Reddot in my 7-08. Great for offhand practice as you can break the shot and maintain follow thru and watch the bullet impact.

Mike

Yeah, there's a definite place for mild loads; good practice for trigger control without the recoil, so should help to avoid "learning" how to flinch.

[Dave_D]

See if you can get some Mule Snot (Lee Liquid Alox) and tumble lube them, it'll help. Trailboss might work, but using a bevel based boolit of unknown size with inadequate lube is a pretty good recipe for leading. At least do yourself a favor and get the bore spotlessly free of jacket fouling. And pick up some 4/0 steel wool, you may need it. Then again it might just work good enough for a plinking load. Only way to know is to try.

I was planning to lube them again.

A plinking load is all i am after.

I can keep looking for other powder, but trail bos is just easy to get my hands on at the moment.

If anyone sees a reason i shouldent use trail boss id like to know. cause i guess thats what ill be trying.

Thanks

Dave

[hicard]

11 grs of Trail Boss should get you in the high 1200 fps range which should shoot good.

[gerrycan]

+1 for Trailboss no worries, Gerry.