Lyman 311257

[KB291]

Picked up a mint condition SC Lyman mould this afternoon but cannot find reference to it in my books. Wondering if anyone has info on it. It is a PB, looks like about 110-125 gr possibly. Any help would be appreciated.

[KB291]

Also picked up a 358439 SC HP. That one is marked "Ideal" and is in good shape.Any ideas?

[MT Gianni]

358439 is a 154 gr pb bullet designed by Elmer Keith. Very much in demand from production to now. I would like first refusal if you ever want to get rid of it. Gianni.

[KB291]

Both will stay in the stable and be used. I'll try the 311 for the M1 carbine ane the 358 for my FT 3 screw Ruger. Thanks for the heads up.

[grumpy one]

311257 is a 30 caliber plain base, which the first Lyman cast bullet manual has marked "30 YOUNG" - maybe the name of the designer, I don't know. It is described as "lightweight plain base for the 30 calibers". It looks like my 311255 but doesn't have the dirt catcher design of crimp groove and has slightly narrower lube grooves. It should be about the same bullet weight - 115-119 grains. 311255 is said to be "Good for the .30-30 and other 30 calibers." It seems to be somewhat true - I've got down to 1.2" grouping at 50 meters at a rather early stage of load development, but they won't fly much faster than I could throw them.

[floodgate]

KB291, grumpy one:

Very interesting bullet! It was introduced in Ideal Handbook No. 16 of 1904, as #308257, with the notation: "This bullet was designed by CAPT. H. C. YOUNG. It has our popular dirt catcher groove in front. The two base bands as cast are .311 in diameter. the front band "A" as cast is .319 in diameter which prevents it receding into an uncrimped shell. It is designed for Armory range of 75 or 100 yards, being adopted by many military organizations. For full particulars, see page 45. SPECIAL LIST, $1.50." Page 45 goes into further detail, listing the weight as 110 grains, and discusses its use in the then-current .30-40, over the original Laflin & Rand "Unique".

It must not have been popular, as it vanishes from the next issue, Handbook No. 17, of 1906. It surfaces briefly - for historical purposes - in the First Edition Lyman "Handbook of Cast Bullets" (1958) under the then-preferred "311" caliber prefix, and again in the Second Edition (1973). It must have gotten some shooters' attention, as it was revived by Lyman (then under the Leisure Group umbrella) as a special order item, 1972 - 1975. Your "Lyman"-marked mould must date from this period.

The "dirt-scraper" groove was developed by Dr. W. G. Hudson, a noted shooter and experimenter around the turn of the 20th Century, to collect fouling scraped loose by the oversized front band. Remember, shooters and reloaders of this period were just coming to terms with the use of smokeless powder, and several methods were used to prevent bullets - previously supported by a case-full of black powder - from being shoved back into a case partially-filled with smokeless.

I'd be VERY interested to hear how it casts out; specifically, whether the oversized front band is still present in this later-production version.

(DON'T be tempted to buy a full set of the early Ideal Handbooks; they'll drive you to distraction - as they have me!)

Doug Elliott

[KB291]

Floodgate & Grumpyone
I appreciate the info. I will cast some in near future and let you know demensions.

[TAWILDCATT]

311257 is110gr the 358439 is it swc keith stile like 358429 at 169gr just read dougs post so this is redundent

[45 2.1]

The "dirt-scraper" groove was developed by Dr. W. G. Hudson, a noted shooter and experimenter around the turn of the 20th Century, to collect fouling scraped loose by the oversized front band. Remember, shooters and reloaders of this period were just coming to terms with the use of smokeless powder, and several methods were used to prevent bullets - previously supported by a case-full of black powder - from being shoved back into a case partially-filled with smokeless. This is also a carry over from the German Scheutzen shooters as they used "stop ring" boolits when reloading for the same reason. I have one Ideal marked 30 caliber mold that is like this.

(DON'T be tempted to buy a full set of the early Ideal Handbooks; they'll drive you to distraction - as they have me!) Ha, your not the only one!