Nervous About Gas Checks

[The Cod Father]

Hi Guys ,

Finally back into shooting after life getting in the way .

I am getting a Handi Rifle in 500 S&W just for range fun and want to cast and reload for it . Unfortunately I am getting conflicting information on what I need so I thoiught I'd check here for the truth .

I will be casting with a Lee mold but I have been told I can`t use that big a bullet without a gas check some said it was only if I was going past a cretain power level someone even told me that gas checks were only for hunting .

I have done a couple searches but I am either not checking the rigfht forum or not asking the right questions .


HELP ME MY BROTHERS OF THE SILVER STREAM !!!!!!!!!!!!

TCF













ck

[GP100man]

In my exp shooting GC designs without GCs is accuracy suffers as ya go up in pressure.

I`ve shot many Lee 310 out of a 44mag & 358156s witout GC or problems .

[Char-Gar]

I know nothing about the 500 S&W, but in general you don't need gas checks in a sixgun until the velocity gets about 1.4 or 1.5K fps. They won't hurt at lower velocities, but you can get by without them with the right alloy, sizing diameter and powder.

[geargnasher]

One of the things about shooting cast boolits is there are very few hard and fast rules, and only a few guidelines.

Depending upon how "hot" you intend to load for this gun, you probably won't need gas checks at all. One of our past members worked a hunting load up for a gun similar to yours using the Lee hollow-base Minie boolit and a compacting, granular shotshell buffer packed between the boolit base and powder, the poly buffer protected the boolit base from deformation and damage, same way a gas check would, and he had excellent results.

Unless you modify the gun by adding a lot of weight to the stock and use a slip-on recoil pad, factory-level .500 ammo will make your shoulder VERY sore, so you might be best served with milder cast boolit loads and plain-based boolits.

Check out our group buy and vendor sponsor sections, lots of .500 boolit designs being kicked around and made there, also check out Accuratemolds dot com and browse the catalog, quite a few designs there as well and Tom will make them to your exact dimensions and specific preferred alloy.

Gear

[W.R.Buchanan]

If the bullet is a gas check design then it needs a gas check. Poor accuracy and leading can occur many times with out the check, especially if driven too hard

The bullet has a shank where that gas check is seated and that shank is small enough that blowby will be allowed by it. This is not conducive of accuracy and is the prime cause of barrel leading

I'm sure there are many 50cal Plain Base designs that could be ran at 1400FPS that would work just fine. If you plan on going faster then a gas check is in order.

Keep in mind that a Rifle will generate 400-700 fps more velocity than the same load in a pistol.

Shouldn't be any reason why you can't have two moulds anyway!

Randy

[leadman]

If it was me I would work up a load with or without the gas check depending on what you want to do with it. If you want a low velocity plinking load leave the GC off and work up your load. If you get leading you will then know that is the point that you are going to need a GC, assuming good boolit fit and proper alloy.

If you want only a high velocity hunting load then it would probably be best to start with a GC installed.

[DLCTEX]

My only experience with larger cal. handgun boolits is 45 and 476 dia. In my 480 Ruger I shoot a 400 gr. Flat base boolit to 1350 fps. with no problems.I have no need to go faster.

[williamwaco]

Hi Guys ,
I will be casting with a Lee mold but I have been told I can`t use that big a bullet without a gas check some said it was only if I was going past a cretain power level someone even told me that gas checks were only for hunting .

ck

Absolute Rule no 1.

There are NO ABSOLUTE rules regarding cast bullets.
There are simply too many variables. Every bullet with every load in every firearm is most likely to drive you crazy.

My advice:

1) I have had a lifetime of fun reloading things " I have been told I can`t use "

2) Read Gearnasher again.

3) If it works, use it.

4) Welcome back. We missed you.

[The Cod Father]

Hi Guys ,

I knew I could count on you to have the info I needed, Thank-you .

I guess that I have a bit more research that I have to do .I never considered even using a mini ball design in my rifle . I would say that 95% of my shoting at the range for a but of fun .The only main thing we really have here in Newfoundland are Moose ,REALLY BIG MOOSE ,and I think if I was to take a shot at one with the S&W it would just end up with him getting pissed off and chasing my butt up a tree or stomping me into the marsh .
That's what heavy loaded .308's are for .

Thanks again for the info and please keep it coming please .
Can anyone recommend some write-ups on using GC's as it is not something I am familiar with

L8R

TCF

[geargnasher]

I beg to differ with regard to the moose. A .500 S&W Magnum in a rifle loaded hot with the right boolit would be pure devastation if the hunter did his part, of course it would probably need to be fairly close, like inside 75 yards.

Gear

[runfiverun]

just get a flat based mold and make some boolits and go shoot them.
you will quickly find out what will and what won't work for you.
your alloy and load development besides boolit diameter and brass tension will determine more than a gas check will.
i am pretty dang sure that a moose will not come stomp you if shot with a 3-400 grain 500 cal. cast boolit at 1200 fps.
or even 1,000 fps and most likely not even at 800 fps.
bufallo are much,much larger than a moose and they are cleanly taken with 400 gr boolits in the 1200 fps range easily.

[Mk42gunner]

The last time I looked at a Handi-Rifle in .500S&W it came with a rather heavy weight in the butt stock. The one that was in my H&R 3 1/2" 12 guage weighed about 1 3/8 lbs.

I will second getting a good recoil pad for it, like Gear recommended. While I haven't shot a .500, the factory pad on my turkey gun is not enough for heavy loads.

Robert

[ku4hx]

If the bullet is a gas check design then it needs a gas check.

+1 Going with conventional wisdom is always a good place to start. If you don't want to use a GC then get a boolit that doesn't require one.

Many moons ago I abandoned casting GC boolits because I simply saw no need for them given my shooting habits. One of my fav-o-rite loads for .44 Magnum is a 245 grain SWC non GC design with a safe but hefty charge of 2400. My Pact PC2 consistently clocks them at a hair over 1,600 fps in my Ruger Super Redhawk. Zero leading. I like plain base boolits.

[41 mag fan]

I've got the Lee mold in 440gr GC. Really don't care for the mold, though.
I've got a mold from Miha also in 450 gr, solid PB, plus the option of HP.
Right now I'm waiting on the 500 Group Buy to go into production.
I'm using pistol though not rifle for my loads.
I've been using the GC's on my Lee.

I've not had any leading on my loads using the 450 gr PB, and using MD Smith and John Ross' load data

[44man]

All of my recent molds are PB and I have shot them just fine as high as 1800 fps. I use PB all the time in my 45-70 revolver at 1632 fps.
I would use a check on the Lee because it was designed for one, when shooting full power but it should be good without it for light loads. What makes me nervous is the price of the things, the metal is mined from an asteroid that only comes around every 50,000 years! [smilie=b:
Gear is right about recoil in a rifle, even .44 mag in a lever gun has a jolt. What we can shoot with hands is sure different from the shoulder! My 45-70 revolver has less felt recoil then a .44 mag but my 12#, 45-70 rifle needs a shoulder pad, it can beat a guy senseless.
Not good for moose? Not much is going to stand around hit with any of the 50's!
Hunt with the monster .500 and I bet the .308 gets sold! :kidding:

[1Shirt]

When it comes to big handgun ctgs, think I will always consider that 44Man is probably the authority I would go to on this forum. Would like to meet the man in person.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[The Cod Father]

Another questions ,

This is one of the bullet molds I was considering MOLD DC C501-440-RF from LEE .It is pictured with a GC on the site ,does that mean it can only be used with a GC ?

TCF

[swheeler]

Another questions ,

This is one of the bullet molds I was considering MOLD DC C501-440-RF from LEE .It is pictured with a GC on the site ,does that mean it can only be used with a GC ?TCF

No, you can shoot the bullet with or without a gas check, but my guess would be you will find success quicker with a gas check. Gary was shooting REAL bullets in his 500 S&W Handi Rifle at pretty decent velocities, believe he was using a PSB filler with this plainbased/flatbased MAXIBALL wannabe bullet to good success. The only way you will know is to try it.

[Norbrat]

Another questions ,

This is one of the bullet molds I was considering MOLD DC C501-440-RF from LEE .It is pictured with a GC on the site ,does that mean it can only be used with a GC ?

TCF

As mentioned above, with mild loads you shouldn't need a gas check and the GC shank on the bullet may or may not make any difference to the accuracy of the loads. Either way, it would be quite safe to shoot.

I do exactly this with a .308 and it easily shoots a 2" group at 100m with an unsized .312 boolit, without gas check, at about 1250 fps.

It is not too difficult to drill out the mould where the gas check shank is to remove the shank. For the price of the Lee moulds, it's not a biggie if you stuff it up.

As it's a double cavity mould, you could do that with one cavity and be able to cast both a gas shank boolit and a plain base boolit.

You could then use the PB for mild loads and the GC for wild loads.

[bearcove]

I just got the c501-440-RF from midway. It has chatter marks in both cavities. Read somewhere else here someone else had same problem. Not to bad but you can see them. I'll just lap them out.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just got the c501-440-RF from midway. It has chatter marks in both cavities. Read somewhere else here someone else had same problem. Not to bad but you can see them. I'll just lap them out.

I purchased one from Midsouth about a month ago...Yes chatter Marks,
and slightly undersized and GC shank slightly undersized.
I plan to leement (and Lap) this mold.
I wish Lee would have used larger blocks,
this thing runs HOT HOT HOT.
I use a wet towel to cool off the mold between pours,
so I'm not waiting a minute for it to cool off.

I am also considering removing the GC shank by using
a dowel and sand paper. I had a Lee 430-310 that had undersized
GC shank, I enlarged it that same way...It wouldn't take real
long to remove it completely.
Once you price 50 cal checks, you'll probably consider the same thing.
Jon

[bearcove]

Planing on removing GC since Im going to PP it in my muzzleloader. A little undersize is OK also .498-99 would be good.

[mpmarty]

Almost all my rifle molds are from LEE and so they all came with a gas check design. I used the checks at first but after a while I quit and shot them without the checks. No difference in performance and no leading in 30/284, 308, 45/70 or 7mm Rem Mag.

[44man]

When it comes to big handgun ctgs, think I will always consider that 44Man is probably the authority I would go to on this forum. Would like to meet the man in person.
1Shirt!:coffeecom
Thank you my friend. The only thing that bothers me is that we all live so far apart. I want to meet ALL of you.
Just how wonderful to have a huge BBQ with all of us? We could eat and shoot all day for many days.

[saz]

When it comes to big handgun ctgs, think I will always consider that 44Man is probably the authority I would go to on this forum. Would like to meet the man in person.
1Shirt!:coffeecom


+1 here. 44Man has answered a lot of questions for me either directly, or when I read his older posts. Thanks 44Man! And yes, a big 'ol BBQ would be a real hoot!

Now, I have taken a very big moose with a 50cal muzzleloader and with a 495gr pure lead conical moving at a touch over 1050fps at the muzzle. It was a long shot at 115 yards but the first shot crushed his onside shoulder and clipped both lungs. He was dead already, just didn't know it yet. Now that was with a pure lead conical which is pretty soft. If you are using WW's for your Lee 440, it is much harder especially if you water quench them. I have been loading for the 500 S&W and Lee 440 quite a bit lately and I have figured out a few things. With the price of Gas checks through the roof lately, you can order them from Matt's bullets http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=81&products_id=270&zenid=r5v4iqml329n94gd69h2v2jrh0 for $5.50/100. Much more economical than buying 1000.

If you are looking to ease up on the recoil and try that boolit with no gas check I suggest you try trail boss. Over 15grs and seated to the bottom crimp groove and no GC I get a very consistent 975fps, good accuracy and ZERO leading from my 7.5" BFR, and I am sure you will pick up a little more from that 22" Handi Rifle. That bullet at 1000fps will flatten any moose that roams.....

[The Cod Father]

I wish that I could move all you guys and your super suppliers up here in Canada with me so I hav access to all the great things you can take for granted .

TCF