Too hot target load?

[dhaid-06]

I am new to shotshell reloading, so bear with me. I inherited the equipment from a friend of my Father's that passed away this year. Looking through his old recipe cards, I found a load that I would like to use, but it is about 1.5 gr. of Red Dot higher than the maximum listed on Alliant's website for this particular combination of components. I looked at the website after I already made a box of shells using the guy's recipe. The recipe was for what I would call a target load. My question is, is there a danger is loading a light target load (1 1/8 oz of No. 9s) a little heavier than the Alliant website calls out, if I will be using it in a modern magnum shotgun (Remington 870 Express Magnum). I don't intend to continue with this hot load, just wondering if I should shoot what I already made, or pull them apart.

Thanks for the help.

[UNIQUEDOT]

What are the components in the load? what type of hull and how old are they? AA's of today are not the same as those of yesterday. Without knowing what components and the charge weight of powder it's not possible to offer advice other than to stick to the published data at least til you are familiar with loading shotshells. I loaded them for close to 20 years before i got brave enough to experiment. A 1.5 grain overcharge is enough to take a scattergun apart if the load was already at maximum pressures. All sorts of things will affect the pressure in a shotshell a considerable amount including crimp depth.

[longbow]

+1 for what UNIQUEDOT said.

If you can provide the details of all components then someone may be able to advise.

While 1.5 grains over doesn't seem like a lot, it may well be if the load is already at max pressure ~ especially if all other components are not identical to the recipe. Just a change in primer can affect pressure by 3000 PSI or more.

Longbow

[dhaid-06]

I don't want to take any chances on this, I'll probably just pull them apart. I've always been a measure twice, cut once kind of guy. Just for my curiosity, can you address my question about pressure limits in regular guns vs. magnum rated guns. I've no intention of being a hot roddder, I'm just curious about this.

Here is the recipe:

AA Hulls
RXP 12 Wads,
WIN 209 Primers
1 1/8 oz Shot (#9)
18.5 gr. Red Dot (Max Load - Alliant Website)
The old man's recipe was for 20 gr.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?shotype=&weight=1.125&weightdis=1+1%2f8&shellid=493&gtypeid=3&gauge=12

Thanks for your help.

[oso]

Using an RXP12 wad and your link suggest you're loading 12 Ga. Right?
For old men's recipes check the old cookbooks, e.g. Lyman Shotshell Handbook 2ndEdition p. 168 lists 20.5 grains Red Dot at 1260 fps and 9,920 L.U.P. with those components. The 1978 "Reloaders' Guide for Hercules Smokeless Powders" p. 17 has your old man's recipe at "Velocity 1255" and "Approx psi 10,700."
As far as "Magnum rating" for shot guns it refers to the length of the shell. A quick check of loading data for 3" shells shows pressure limits comparable to 2.75" shells, but data for 3.5" shells show some higher pressures. So, young man, we old men called 3" shells magnums, what do you call 3.5" shells?

[UNIQUEDOT]

I don't want to take any chances on this, I'll probably just pull them apart. I've always been a measure twice, cut once kind of guy. Just for my curiosity, can you address my question about pressure limits in regular guns vs. magnum rated guns. I've no intention of being a hot roddder, I'm just curious about this.

Here is the recipe:

AA Hulls
RXP 12 Wads,
WIN 209 Primers
1 1/8 oz Shot (#9)
18.5 gr. Red Dot (Max Load - Alliant Website)
The old man's recipe was for 20 gr.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?shotype=&weight=1.125&weightdis=1+1%2f8&shellid=493&gtypeid=3&gauge=12

Thanks for your help.

If the components are older (the same ones he was using) i would use them. Even different resins in the components could be responsible for the lighter loading and the aa's are not the same as the older hulls, but most likely it's modern testing equipment which shows that some loads of the past did strange things under certain conditions. I would personally use that load if i was using magnum shot measured by volume as the weight of the shot will actually be less than that of chilled shot.


Magnum shotshell loads were called magnums because they had more shot in them. A magnum shotshell has no more pressure than most field and even some target loads especially factory target loads. They also have a slower velocity than 3 3/4 dram field loads and plenty of 12 ga. 7/8 oz target loads are faster than many magnum loads. A larger quantity of a slow burning powder is necessary to load so called magnums. As the other poster stated a 3.5" 12 ga. shell operates at higher pressures which are about the same that a .410 bore operates at. With standard 410 bore through 10 ga., operating pressure is lower the larger the bore.

[gnoahhh]

First off, I don't consider a 1 1/8ounce load to be a "light" target load. To me a light load is 7/8 oz. in a 12 bore, which is all I use for 95% of my shooting anymore. That 18.5gr. Red Dot is a hot load. Don't exceed it. Back in the day when I thought I needed to sling 1 1/8oz. to break a clay bird, I loaded 17 gr. (always AA hulls&wads, 209 primers) and a hundred shots on a trap field would have my shoulder aching. Nowadays it's 16.5gr. Clays and 7/8 ounce, AA components and 209's.

I tell people that unlike metallic cartridge hand loading where one can experiment with different loads within the parameters of what the components are designed for, shotshells are another matter. Best off sticking with the exact recipes in the modern manuals and don't deviate. Pressures can escalate rapidly just by switching components.

[longbow]

I will take a look through my references later to see what I come up with.

Longbow

[dhaid-06]

Thanks for all the information guys. Like I said shotshells are new to me. I'm glad I asked the question.

[longbow]

From the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook 4th edition:

AA Hulls
RXP 12 Wads,
WIN 209 Primer
1 1/8 oz Shot
20.5 gr. Red Dot
Velocity = 1260 FPS
Pressure = 9900 LUP ~ listed as "Field and Heavy Target Loads"

From Reloading for Shotgunners 4th edition:

AA Hulls
RXP 12 Wads,
WIN 209 Primer
1 1/8 oz Shot
16.5 - 18.5 gr. Red Dot
Velocity = 1200 FPS (for 18.5 grs)
Pressure = 9800 PSI (for 18.5 grs)

The Lyman handbook lists 1 1/1 oz. loads to 10,500 LUP and 11, 500 PSI (different Win hull recipes)

Reloading for Shotgunners lists 1 1/8 oz loads to 11,500 PSI (different Win hull recipes)

Ah, the mysterious world of reloading for shotguns! Significant difference in charge, same components, yet little difference in pressure or velocity. Could be powder batch, primers, different gun (well obviously it is a different gun but you know what I mean), different batches of components.

That is all I found for these components.

That's why I refer to several sources before making final decisions. If the load is listed as low pressure I may make minor alterations but if listed at max. I do not.

Longbow

[mtgrs737]

Here is the rule of thumb I use at such times: It is better to cut the hulls apart thus wasting the hulls but recovering the componets than risk blowing up a shotgun and possible injury to myself. High pressure gas can do terrible things to eyes, flesh and bone. Hulls are cheap.