Primer Pocket Swaging

[thehouseproduct]

I have pretty much decided that I won't bother with military brass any more. I have and shoot and reload many thousands of rounds of 223 that I swaged the primer pocket with a RCBS pocket swager. Even after swaging, the primers seat with much more difficulty and sometimes crush. My question is this:
Is there a method of dealing with primer pocket crimp that results in brass that you cannot tell the difference between commercial and military when seating primers?

[jcwit]

I remove the crimp with a small countersink, the kind with a hole drilled at an angle, and have experienced no problems over the last decade.

[Reg]

I tried both a RCBS and a Herter primer pocket swaging set up and had about the same luck.
Worked better using a fine pointed and very sharp pocket knife followed by a light champering with a 45 degree chamfering tool in a drill press.

:neutral:

[thegreatdane]

I remove the crimp with a small countersink, the kind with a hole drilled at an angle, and have experienced no problems over the last decade.

Same here. Works great!

[Chicken Thief]

Lyman makes a crimp remover/reamer

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/primer-pocket-reamer.php

[Sonnypie]

I have a primer pocket reamer that Dad got back in the 1960's when we started reloading.
All of our brass was FA 34 back then. And as such, had crimped in primers.
And the way to deal with it was with a Primer Pocket Reamer. We used it by hand.
I still use it.

Folks say you shouldn't ream because it removes brass.

Funny, I have never, ever, had a case fail because of a reamed primer pocket. :-?
And when setting primers (by hand, with a Lee priming tool) my reamed pockets prime exactly like the commercial brass I have that I gathered up from zombie shooters. (The pop and drop shooters.)

Maybe I just live right? :confused: ;-)

Primer Pocket Reamers. (http://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS452US452&sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=21&gs_id=i&xhr=t&q=Primer+pocket+reamers&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS452US452&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Primer+pocket+reamers&aq=0v&aqi=g-v2&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=962bef30e4b02d1&ion=1&biw=1152&bih=779)

The last 1600 I did was using a lathe with the acc-u-ream chucked up and hand application of the brass to the reeeeeeeeeeeeeamer.
It cost $3.95 back then. Still working today.
YMMV

[trixter]

I am of the opinion that for accuracy, go ahead and spend a little $.$$ and get the RCBS Primer Pocket Swage, die. I was not too sure at first, but when it came, and I got it all set up, it was way easier than I thought. Now they are all exactly perfect. Just the way I like it.

[kevin45acp]

I have good success with the Dillon

[jcwit]

I am of the opinion that for accuracy, go ahead and spend a little $.$$ and get the RCBS Primer Pocket Swage, die. I was not too sure at first, but when it came, and I got it all set up, it was way easier than I thought. Now they are all exactly perfect. Just the way I like it.

Please reread post #1, the op says he used the RCBS pocket swager.

[Dan Cash]

I have a Dillon swage that is fast and easy on the body when using it. The processed brass primes better than new brass. No need to sort mil and comm brass, just stick it all on the anvil and swing the lever.

[mroliver77]

Dillon here too. It works great!
J

[3006guns]

Tending to crimped primer pockets can be a pain, but once it's done it's done....at least for the life of the case. If you're cheap (like me) you actually prefer military brass because of its quality and low cost.

I had problems with the RCBS unit......it seemed no matter how carefully I swaged, the primers were hard to seat and some got crushed. I even measured the mandrel to make sure the size was correct....it was. If you look at the base of the mandrel you'll see a gentle radius, which I guessed was supposed to be impressed into the pocket opening to give the primer an easy start. I don't care HOW hard you reefed on that press handle, you're not going to make it happen.

One of the forum members gave me a simple solution and it works beautifully. After swaging all the brass, just go back through them and use a case mouth reamer on the pockets. Just a few spins, rarely more than two times, bevels the pocket and makes primer insertion normal. If I get a "feisty" one that still puts up a fight, I just twirl in a primer pocker reamer and it starts cooperating. I've saved a lot of cases after learning that little trick!

All of this would seem "to take forever". It doesn't really.

[Johnk454]

Back in the '70s, I bought an RCBS swager to get away from a hand powered cutter. Went back to the cutter.

Bought a Dillon swager and that thing not only works great, it is fast! Place a case on the mandrel, swage, and flip the mandrel backward to eject the brass into a waiting cardboard box. You can really get some production.

Greatest thing ever.

Then I bought a Dillon 1050 and haven't touched the Dillon swager since. The 1050 swages the primer pockets on every case. I leave it set up that way just in case any ex-military brass gets mixed in with the commercial. It also works very well.

[williamwaco]

I remove the crimp with a small countersink, the kind with a hole drilled at an angle, and have experienced no problems over the last decade.



I do the same except with a 5/16 drill bit.

It removes the crimp and leaves a barely preceptable "dish" funneling the primer into the pocket. I expect the countersink will be even better than the drill bit.

This is significantly faster and does a much better job than any of the hand reamers, primer pocket uniformers, or swagers. If anything, primers seat easier than with commercial.

I have used this method for many years on 5.56 and .45ACP with equal success.

And oh yes, It is considerably faster and less work than the other methods. The drill does all the work.

[mroliver77]

I do the same except with a 5/16 drill bit.

It removes the crimp and leaves a barely preceptable "dish" funneling the primer into the pocket. I expect the countersink will be even better than the drill bit.

This is significantly faster and does a much better job than any of the hand reamers, primer pocket uniformers, or swagers. If anything, primers seat easier than with commercial.

I have used this method for many years on 5.56 and .45ACP with equal success.

And oh yes, It is considerably faster and less work than the other methods. The drill does all the work.
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We sure disagree on this! I have used all the methods above and today use the Dillon because of its speed, quality of pocket and ease of use.

I had the RCBS and was not happy with it.

I am not a Dillon pimp but their primer pocket swage is in my humble opinion the best and easiest way to remove crimps. It also produces a better finished pocket.
It is not cheap though. Most fine tools are not. Resale price is pretty good too. :)
Jay

[angus6]

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We sure disagree on this! I have used all the methods above and today use the Dillon because of its speed, quality of pocket and ease of use.

I had the RCBS and was not happy with it.

I am not a Dillon pimp but their primer pocket swage is in my humble opinion the best and easiest way to remove crimps. It also produces a better finished pocket.
It is not cheap though. Most fine tools are not. Resale price is pretty good too. :)
Jay

Same here, didn't take long to put the RCBS unit back in the box. Went to the Hornady unit and it worked great, picked up the Dillon swage 600 unit but before I got to try it I ended up with a 1050 and takes all the hassle out of it

[dragonrider]

My thoughts on this is if you remove material you can't put it back. I use a Dillion also, you won't find anything that does it better.

[Lloyd Smale]

another vote for the dillon. Ive tried many differnt ways and havent found anything better short of shelling out for a 1050

[williamwaco]

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We sure disagree on this! I have used all the methods above and today use the Dillon because of its speed, quality of pocket and ease of use.

I had the RCBS and was not happy with it.

I am not a Dillon pimp but their primer pocket swage is in my humble opinion the best and easiest way to remove crimps. It also produces a better finished pocket.
It is not cheap though. Most fine tools are not. Resale price is pretty good too. :)
Jay


That is good to know.

I have never used either the Hornady or the Dillon, I have used the RCBS and the Lyman.

I really like the method I use however it is much faster than any swage die. I can do about 20 a minute. How many can you do with a swage die. The dies I have used are slow and cumbersome - no more than around 6 a minute.

[midnight]

I'll cast my vote for reaming. The Wilson tool is the best I have found. I use the large 50BMG and the standard size for 223s & 36-06. Primers always seat smoothly.

Bob

[Char-Gar]

I don't find the crimped mlitary primer pockets to be a concern. I use and old CH hand swage to remove the crimp and then a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer. When done you have a smooth uniform primer pocket.

I am one of those folks who have always had more time than money and plenty of patience to boot. I kept my appointment with Destiny years ago and Destiny didn't show up!

[thehouseproduct]

Well I guess that I'll pick up the reamers first. Its good to know that others have had issues with swagers. If the reamers dont give me what I'm looking for, I have no choice but to buy a Dillon 1050. You guys said so and my wife will have to understand.

[angus6]

I mounted the Hornady on a surplus motor from Surplus Center, really liked it. I then added another motor with a Possum Hollow trimmer

[LabGuy]

Well I guess that I'll pick up the reamers first. Its good to know that others have had issues with swagers. If the reamers dont give me what I'm looking for, I have no choice but to buy a Dillon 1050. You guys said so and my wife will have to understand.

So if I get a bucket military crimped brass, I can tell my wife I must have a 1050, as it’s the best way. I hear sleigh bells.

[thehouseproduct]

I mounted the Hornady on a surplus motor from Surplus Center, really liked it. I then added another motor with a Possum Hollow trimmer
Which one? I'd like to build something like this rather than spend $100 on one from a colored brand.

[angus6]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/angus6/Picture011-5.jpg

[Mk42gunner]

Well I guess that I'll pick up the reamers first. Its good to know that others have had issues with swagers. If the reamers dont give me what I'm looking for, I have no choice but to buy a Dillon 1050. You guys said so and my wife will have to understand.

Be sure to let us know how that turns out after you get out of the hospital:kidding:.


I have both the RCBS and Dillon swagers. The Dillon is so much easier and faster than the RCBS that it is not even funny.

However, I still get some primers that are a little hard to insert when using Winchester LR in LC-64 7.62 brass. It isn't starting the primer sin that is hard, it seems to be a small constriction when they are about halfway in.

I guess I am going to have to break down and buy:groner: one of the primer pocket uniformers...

Robert

[dromia]

Concur on the case mouth reamer for removing crimp, I've done thousands of .303" brass over the years with nary a problem,

[Sonnypie]

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I am not a Dillon pimp
Jay

:lol:
Denial.
It's not just a creek in Egypt... :kidding:

Now I don't care who Y'are. That's funny right there!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Larry_the_Cable_Guy.jpg/220px-Larry_the_Cable_Guy.jpg

The best part is there is lots of ways to do things. ;-)
50 + year old reamer:
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny's/PB070372.JPG

77 year old FA brass from Camp Perry shootin matches.
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny's/PB120376.JPG

I showed Ya mine. Now it's only fair you show us yours.
Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)

You aren't a pimp, you're a fan. ;)

[garym1a2]

Dillon makes great stuff, very high quality. But I do not see the value for a progressive when you only need to run the case thru a die twice. Once to size and the second to seat the bullet. Plus you need to take a step in between and fix the primer pocket. Now if you said 9mm or 45acp its worthwhole. for .223 on my lee classic turrent I just use the leval prime and seat on the down stroke. hand spinning the case when it engages the primer to ensure its line up good. Many of the crimp ones will go. The ones that do not I have a deburring case than will get a good bit of them. The rest I set aside till I figure out a good tool to get. Since I only get about two loads out of them and trash them I don't see need for too much effort. I find LC easy to do and PMC to be a bear.
Keep in mind range pickups are quite avaliable. Goto a carbine match or a 3 gun and you can get enough brass to last years as very few people pickup .223, 9s or 40s.


Well I guess that I'll pick up the reamers first. Its good to know that others have had issues with swagers. If the reamers dont give me what I'm looking for, I have no choice but to buy a Dillon 1050. You guys said so and my wife will have to understand.

[casterofboolits]

I have used the RCBS swage tool for quite a few thousand 45, 556 and 30-06.

My Dad and I worked for a tooling company and Dad polished and hard chromed the swage head. I made new mandrels from A2 Steel and heat treated them.

Never had a problem seating primers.

[Pavogrande]

Well, for the last 50 years I have used a swage unit from herters. George Leonard Herter guaranteed it to be the best ever!!!
It actually has worked fine, the lyman hand reamer is ok as well, but I have only done a few thousand cases over the years.

[Kevin Rohrer]

My Dillon likes to watch TV while decrimping brass.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have had and used the RCBS tool for many years and I have hated it. It is not a tool that feels good during use.

I have also used a countersink and done a bunch that way, and since I do them in my machine shop I have lots of countersinks to choose from. It works OK.

My Bro in law has the Dillon tool and it is absolutely a Cadillac, I used it a little and was sold.

I personally think from a machine designers standpoint, that the Dillon engineers are among the best there is. Their tools just work well.

Sometimes they are a little overkill, such is the case with the primer tube filler which needs to be a simple $20 tool instead of a $300 tool .

But mostly their stuff works perfectly and is very user friendly. That's a hard thing to beat.

There's a lot of good tools for the reloader out there, and I personally pick the best ones for any job based on what I know. It is pointless to use only one brand and try to stay with 'matched sets" of tools. Nobody has the best everything!

I have seen mechanics that had virtual fortunes in toolboxes with no tools other than one brand. I get a kick out of the Snap-on devotees that paid $279 for the same timing light I bought at Kragen for $79. Only theirs has a Snap-on sticker instead of a Kragen sticker on the side. HA!

I say buy the best tools you can, but do your homework before you shop, and then shop the hell out of it. There are bargains to be had on virtually everything. When you see used tools with close to new prices as the norm, you can usually bet they are good stuff.

My .02

Randy

[45fisher]

I have had and used the RCBS tool. Never had a problem with it. 9mm 45 and 223 cases. I hand prime with the Lee hand primer and after swaging.

Larry

[Harter66]

I use a mixed method w/ IIRC a #4 drill bit and the case mouth tool . The bit is smaller than the CCI LR primers and the chamfer nocks the ridge off. I've only done 4-500 but it worked fine on LC 42 & 43 and TW54 .

I cut the point off the drill bit rolled the lead corners to center better . I put it in a little hex drive 1/4inch drill chuck I found someplace or other many yr ago.

[Shedhunter]

I use the Forster military crimp remover, works well in their case trimmer if your doing small batches but if I want to do a bunch I chuck it up in a drill. After a little practice you can judge how much brass needs to be removed.

[DCM]

Well I guess that I'll pick up the reamers first. Its good to know that others have had issues with swagers. If the reamers dont give me what I'm looking for, I have no choice but to buy a Dillon 1050. You guys said so and my wife will have to understand.

The reamer/deburring tool would be my first suggestion as it is inexpensive yet fairly efficient. The 1050 is faster and safer, but the caliber changes CAN be a pain if you need to change the shellplate and it is $$$$$$.

[ditchtiger]

Hornady Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter Head put into a cordless drill.

[thehouseproduct]

Got my reamer. We will see how it works.

[angus6]

The reamer/deburring tool would be my first suggestion as it is inexpensive yet fairly efficient. The 1050 is faster and safer, but the caliber changes CAN be a pain if you need to change the shellplate and it is $$$$$$.

Think I'd go with a mounted powered Hornady reamer over the SS600 , I just found the reamer faster then the ss600
The caliber change is no big deal and really the cost isn't $$$$$ if you swap dies instead if heads.

[dromia]

Just been using the Lyman Xpress case prep centre and it is a fine pice of kit that comes complete with large and small primer pocket attachments for cleaning, de crimping, and pocket uniforming. It also inside and outside deburrs and my RCBS flash hole uniformer fits the machine too.

I have arthritic hands and case prep was getting a real pain 'till I got this machine.

[chambers]

I have used for mostly .223 a powered case reaming tool station I made having 6 tool head stations for multiple operations to reduce handling brass from pocket reaming to inside and outside chamfer to primer pocket cleaning. Have several reamers to choose from with different angles to ream primer pockets. My Dillon 650 loves having primer pockets ready to accept primers and solved the mess of not having a primer seat and powder everywhere. The AR-15 has never had a blown out primer and reloaded the brass multiple times. Powered case trimmer is fast to do 1000's.