Have you received the "Special" from NRA?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I told them when I signed up as a member to keep there publications, and put ALL of my contribution to helping "The Cause"

[Echo]

Some marketing VP decided that it could bring in a few bucks - the DVD's cost essentially nothing - the only direct expense is producing the DVD, the packaging and mailing. Of course there is the indirect expense of hiring a PR firm, or marketing firm, and fullfillment house, and the expense of the VP who thought up (or OK'd) this idea. They are really trying hard to bring in any money they can - they have so many Legacy members (I'm one) that don't pay any subscription fees anymore, they aren't bringing in subscription fees from all members.

But I agree - I wish they would concentrate more on their charter. Their bureaucracy has grown, without a corresponding increase in efficiency or effectiveness.

[Ickisrulz]

Some marketing VP decided that it could bring in a few bucks - the DVD's cost essentially nothing - the only direct expense is producing the DVD, the packaging and mailing. Of course there is the indirect expense of hiring a PR firm, or marketing firm, and fullfillment house, and the expense of the VP who thought up (or OK'd) this idea. They are really trying hard to bring in any money they can - they have so many Legacy members (I'm one) that don't pay any subscription fees anymore, they aren't bringing in subscription fees from all members.

But I agree - I wish they would concentrate more on their charter. Their bureaucracy has grown, without a corresponding increase in efficiency or effectiveness.

Doesn't the NRA farm out these type of fundraising campaigns so there is in effect no cost to the organizations?

We aren't better off in our guns rights now than we were 10 or 20 years ago?

[oldgeezershooter]

I also don't care for the free gifts. "Made In China!"

[waksupi]

Doesn't the NRA farm out these type of fundraising campaigns so there is in effect no cost to the organizations?

We aren't better off in our guns rights now than we were 10 or 20 years ago?


Correct, this is jobbed out, with no expense to the NRA. The sender gets a cut, 5% I think I heard.

[Kraschenbirn]

Don't those guys ever learn? We (NRA members) went through this with the national organization several years back. They were sending out unsolicited "specials" and, then, billing the members if they weren't returned "promptly". Turned out that under the laws of almost every state, consumers are NOT required to pay for unsolicited merchandise received through the mail and the NRA ended up essentially eating the costs of the whole deal.

Bill

[zxcvbob]

Are you sure it's from the NRA and not the SAF? I've received unsolicited DVD's from both over the years; the last one was from SAF and I haven't watched it yet but "PDN" sounds familiar.

I just consider the DVD's to be gifts and keep them, and throw away the bills they send. They give up trying to collect after a few months.

[GLL]

Sounds like another Columbia Record Club to me ! ;) ;)

Jerry

[Ickisrulz]

I was surprised and disgusted when I received the "New PDN (Personal Defense Network) DVD from the NRA.

They call it a "risk free preview" if I like it I can send them my special member only price of $12.95, or I can put it in the enclosed mailer and send it back to them (at a cost of? to the NRA)

I called and complained, and said that I did not think it was a good use of our money to send dvd's around the country, and then mail them back, "we the member's" are paying the postage both ways!

It would be another thing if they advertised it, and I said I wanted, then go ahead and send it!

Brenda told me that she would remove me from the promotional mailing list, and that I may keep it . . . I asked her "wouldn't it be better of our limited resource to to spend time in court, then mailing dvd's back and forth across the country?" She had no answer.

I told them when I signed up as a member to keep there publications, and put ALL of my contribution to helping "The Cause"

The other issue is that if you receive a product that you did not ask for through the US Mail with a request to pay for...it's yours to keep free of charge. It's been that way for years.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx

[jcwit]

For all of you that are complaining about receiving something in the mail from a marketing org. that would make the NRA some money with NO EXPENSE to the NRA,

I have a Question.

When was the last time any of you have sent the NRA funds other than your membership to help in the fight for our rights?

Just wondering.

Seems like some folks just seem to search for something to B)&^h about.

[jcwit]

Your address is public record, not difficult to acquire.

[jcwit]

Good Grief Guy. If you don't want the DVD or whatever it is they sent you, toss it, problem solved.

If nothing else the marketing firm kept a few people employed.

Its really no big thing, believe me there are bigger problems out there.

[smoked turkey]

In regard to 123.DieselBenz's OP I agree that NRA should "stick to their knitting" as said by Peter Drucker(?) of author of several business success books. I resent getting junk in exchange for my monetary gifts to them. I also got a CD a few years ago and didn't want it and took them at their word and didn't send it back. They requested their money much later long after I had forgotten about it. I had words with them and didn't send them the money. I am very pro NRA and believe they do a good job fighting for our gun rights. I send them money occasionally because I believe in them. Its just some of this little stuff that I am not in favor of.

[10x]

You guys are lucky to have the N.R.A. Otherwise the whole U.S. would be facing laws similar to what is being put in place in California.
If you want to see what happens without an organized gun lobby take a look at Canada's gun laws. There it is illegal to possess a gun without a federal government issued license. The Canadian federal government sets the terms and fees to get that license and can revoke it at any time "for good and sufficient cause". Or revoke it based on the opinion of the government minister in charge of the Canadian Firearms act (Sections 117 and 119 of the Chapter 39, Statutes of Canada).

[darkroommike]

The NRA means different things to different people, so for them to do just ONE thing the way only ONE member wants it done can not happen. Example: I joined NRA because it is required before I can join my local range. The NRA has programs at our range for handgun safety, youth hunter programs, etc. It sanctions events, it certifies instructors, etc. In short, without the NRA, on a local level, many gun clubs can not continue to function. Additionally I will not be able to CMP qualify for my M1 without the aid that NRA supplies. I have been a longtime fan of the American Rifleman Magazine also and consider my dues well spent.

I am not a big fan of the NRA's more overt political actions but realize that without their lobbying efforts much of what I DO enjoy would not be possible and have no beef with that part of my yearly dues (I just don't like lobbyists and politics in general).

If there are NRA programs that you really like, we are all able to "sweeten the pot" and send 'em a few extra bucks for a specific program. Anyone that doesn't like the DVD--send the General Fund the $12.95 with a note explaining why the odd amount was sent. Speak with your checkbook, that'll get their attention.

[Freightman]

I get tired of some of the mail I get from the NRA, but I neater have the influence nor funds to fight very much so I pay my dues and give what I can to a larger fund to make my voice heard. Whatever there short comings they do keep "my government" from tromping me into the dirt.
The other organizations need your support also.

[10x]

Yeah 10X, maybe so . . . but I also support the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) http://www.saf.org/ and Gun Owners of America (GOA) http://gunowners.org/ on the National level, which both seem to "stick to their knitting" . . . on the local level I also support an EXCELLENT organization called Arizona Citizens Defensive League (AZ-CDL) http://www.azcdl.org/ who were the ones who demanded and put the time in to get "Constitutional Carry" through the law books here! and of course also my local group The Arizona State Rifle & Pistol Association (ASRPA) http://www.asrpa.com/

You are lucky that you have those pro gun groups.
We in Canada have the N.F.A. ( National Firearms Association) and a couple of provincial Organizations. I am intimately involved with two. We are just starting to build the political clout held by the N.R.A. and S.A.F.

Canada has the right to bear arms as well - the U.S. 2nd Amendment is an affirmation of a right to bear arms that is rooted in English Common law. Because Canada has its laws rooted in English Common law it has the same rights to bear arms (Just not mentioned in the founding legislation). It can not be extinguished by legislation. Both the U.S. and Canadian laws have their roots in English Common law and precedent from the courts in both countries has weight in determining Court decisions. So it is in the best interests of Canadian Gun owners that you guys in the U.S. keep your 2nd Amendment rights.

[montana_charlie]

So, 123.DieselBenz ...
Have you watched the DVD?
Is there anything on it that makes you glad to have it?

CM

[mroliver77]

I might have but I toss all mail from them without opening. I need to find a way to profit from junk mail.

My kid really enjoyed recieving the kids NRA magazine in the mail with her name on it.
The have changed it over to online only. She would rather read it from a mag as it is much more portable.

Just another small gripe.
J

[mroliver77]

I might have but I toss all mail from them without opening. I need to find a way to profit from junk mail.

My kid really enjoyed recieving the kids NRA magazine in the mail with her name on it.
The have changed it over to online only. She would rather read it from a mag as it is much more portable.

Just another small gripe

[montana_charlie]

I was surprised and disgusted when I received the "New PDN (Personal Defense Network) DVD from the NRA.

They call it a "risk free preview" if I like it I can send them my special member only price of $12.95, or I can put it in the enclosed mailer and send it back to them (at a cost of? to the NRA)


So, 123.DieselBenz ...
Have you watched the DVD?
Is there anything on it that makes you glad to have it?


No, I have not watched it . . .

So, you got it in the mail.
You are not obligated to buy it if you watch it.
You haven't watched it.
But, you are disgusted by it.

I guess I have no more questions ...

CM

[jcwit]

If I got this upset every time something was IMPLIED to me I'd be miserable all of the time.

However I'm Happy almost all of the time, and have no time to get this upset over things this trivial.

Can not folks just move on?

[Olevern]

The NRA's money raising tactics annoy me as well, I suspect that they allow other for profit companies to use their name in raising money for a small cut, much as the PBA did in my time in law enforcement.

A telephone agent would call and ask you to support your local PBA, and mention some of the good things the PBA had done in the past with their union dues money, then attempt to get you to send them money.

That company had no connection to the PBA, other than a signed agreement to allow them to raise money to be shared by the PBA and themselves. Problem, the company hired and paid all the telephone soliciters, and got most of the money, the PBA only got a small percentage (under ten percent) of the money raised.

Of course, the telephone soliciter never divulged that to the doner, they were left thinking that all the money they gave went to the PBA, and would be used to aid widows and send fallen hero's sons and daughters to college, etc.

The company raised millions, and tens of thousands went into the coffers of the PBA.

It is my guess that that is how the majority of the solicitations we see from the NRA are funded, and how the payout goes.

The NRA (and the PBA) could care less about the amount of money you think is going to your cause doesn't get there, they get some money with no effort or outlay.....you get fleeced.

[ErikO]

I got that DVD and a 'challenge coin' directly from PDM, not from any organization I am a member of. The only complaint I have is that I forgot to actually coat the coin and being cheapo steel is starting to rust...need to clean, polish and coat it so it stays nice in my wallet on the off chance that I ever get 'coined'. ;) Yeah, kinda weak, but all my vet buddies have said that it counted since I watched the DVD. lol

I did not request this DVD so it's mine to keep free. Love them postal laws!

[jcwit]

What the heck is PBA?

[zxcvbob]

"Police Benevolent Association". (not to be confused with PBR)

[bob208]

i made a donation to the nra with my credit card. about 2 months later i started receiving books from them. then i got my card statement . they hit me for 5 books at $30-35 apice. that was 20 years ago i have not been a member since.

[jcwit]

i made a donation to the nra with my credit card. about 2 months later i started receiving books from them. then i got my card statement . they hit me for 5 books at $30-35 apice. that was 20 years ago i have not been a member since.

Thats Cool, the rest of us will carry you on our back.

How bout we don't continue to turn this into an NRA bashing thread!

[fishnbob]

No, I have not watched it . . .

Surprised nobody else here has gotten it yet . . .

I got it from the guy who is on TV every Wednesday night on the Outdoor Channel. Midway's Wednesday Night at the Range, I think it is called. Rob Pincus sent me 2 DVD's and about 5 threatening letters or "Nasty Grams" as I call them. I sent both back by telling the mail carrier that it was "Non Solicited" mail and the Post Office returned it as "return to sender". I still got several more letters from Rob Pincus on this Personal Defense B S and I think I finally wrote a letter and told some poor office person that I didn't need anybody telling me how to pull a trigger and when. I also stopped watching the program and I think that he got the hint when I unplugged his @$$! LOL!:drinks:

[jcwit]

I got it from the guy who is on TV every Wednesday night on the Outdoor Channel. Midway's Wednesday Night at the Range, I think it is called. Rob Pincus sent me 2 DVD's and about 5 threatening letters or "Nasty Grams" as I call them. I sent both back by telling the mail carrier that it was "Non Solicited" mail and the Post Office returned it as "return to sender". I still got several more letters from Rob Pincus on this Personal Defense B S and I think I finally wrote a letter and told some poor office person that I didn't need anybody telling me how to pull a trigger and when. I also stopped watching the program and I think that he got the hint when I unplugged his @$$! LOL!:drinks:

Checked out his web site, I see the first letter of his school I.C.E., the "I" stands for intergrity.

The above post leaves one to wonder for sure.

[gandydancer]

romwith out the NRA gunnies like us would be in deep hit and we all know it. and I support them where ever and when ever I can. However I do not like things sent I did not ask for. and I do not like them asking for money per week some times more often. when you are on a fixed income as I am their is a limit to the funds on hand. ( I had my pension stole from me by the TEAMSTERS in the 1980's) a great brotherhood (had to throw that in) GD

[Olevern]

"Police Benevolent Association". (not to be confused with PBR)

Or PB&J [smilie=l:

[montana_charlie]

In regard to 123.DieselBenz's OP I agree that NRA should "stick to their knitting".
Would it be appropriate to say that NRA's 'knitting' includes education of the public in the world of guns and finding ways to make money to fund NRA actvities?

I'll presume you answered 'yes' to both of those. Therefore, you will certainly approve of this mailing by the NRA.
I have received mine, so (now) I understand what it is all about.

The 'free gift' is a coin which is part of a series of similar items NRA members may wish to collect.

The DVD is one in a series of instructional disks called The Personal Firearm Defense DVD Series.
Purchasing the DVD series also gets a new coin with each disk, as they come in.

Being one disk from the entire series which is being offered for sale, the included disk also has a purchase price ... but it can be returned to the NRA in the Post-paid envelope if not wanted.

So, the offering has the NRA offering education to the public, and attempting to sell an informational DVD series as a program to raise money for the organization.

I would say that (in this instance) the NRA is tending to it's knitting in a respectable manner ... and none of the foregoing controversy would have occurred if 123.DieselBenz had simply read the material accompanying the DVD well enough to understand the offer.

CM

[zxcvbob]

So keep your free gift from the NRA and throw the bill and the return envelope away, and don't get so upset about it. (a *little* upset, maybe) BTW, I found the DVD I got from the Second Amendment Foundation months ago -- it's the same PDN. Maybe I should watch it...

[montana_charlie]

If you assemble the return 'package' according to instructions, the inserted address lable has your information on the back ... so they know who is returning the disk.

Knowing I'm on the list to receive one (beacuse I did), and knowing they can correlate that with my return of the product, I am comfortable knowing their records show me to be an honest member ... and one who does not purposely upset their 'process' due to laziness or disintrest.

How others manage their reputations is up to them ...
CM

[Olevern]

If you assemble the return 'package' according to instructions, the inserted address lable has your information on the back ... so they know who is returning the disk.

Knowing I'm on the list to receive one (beacuse I did), and knowing they can correlate that with my return of the product, I am comfortable knowing their records show me to be an honest member ... and one who does not purposely upset their 'process' due to laziness or disintrest.

How others manage their reputations is up to them ...
CM

NO reflection on my honesty or reputation whatsoever if I refuse to buy into someone else's idea of what I should do with unsolicited stuff they chose to send to my residence.

[Ickisrulz]

I am of the opinion that NRA has betrayed their good name with this little marketing scheme. Sending someone something they did not order and then asking them to either pay for it or send it back places an unwanted burden on the receiver--no matter how small someone else may think that burden is. And, I'll also add is a bit deceptive. How many spouses out there will cut a check thinking their husband ordered the DVD? This reminds me of the offers to buy magazines in the form of a fake "invoice" that I sometimes get.

The Post Office stopped this type of thing a long time ago. It may not be the same thing as shipping someone an unsolicited item and then demanding payment, but it's as close to that line as the law allows.

I don't think anyone who keeps the DVD and watches it or throws the thing in the garbage without paying for it is dishonest either. There is no obligation attached to the DVD at all.

[Tom-ADC]

In CA if it comes in the mail its is free, I hate it when people send me stuff I didn't order then expect me to pay for it or mail it back.
I'm sure they can find a better way to raise money.

[Ickisrulz]

In CA if it comes in the mail its is free, I hate it when people send me stuff I didn't order then expect me to pay for it or mail it back.
I'm sure they can find a better way to raise money.

In every state if it comes in the mail and you didn't ask for it it's free. It's been that way for a very long time.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Xxxxxx

[jcwit]

\If one was to follow the directions for returning the DVD, it also says to REMOVE the DVD from the package, and stick that in the thin UNPADDED envelope to send it back to them . . . wonder how it would make the trip with NOTHING to protect it other than a thin piece of paper! USPS is not known for being gentle. Just shows what they think the DVD is worth!

Thats not even your concern.

Why would you even mention it!

BTW I receive packages weekly thru the USPS, have yet to receive a damaged shipment. Can't say that about UPS.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

out!;-)

[jcwit]

But then you didn't follow the instructions. Thanks for filling in the portion left out, very informative.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

groner:

[Olevern]

Wow, the return address is in Mn, only adds to my presumption that it did not come from the NRA, but from a solicitation firm using the NRA's name under a contract with the NRA.

Typically, only a very small percentage of proceeds go to the non-profit that lends it's name to the scam. The independent company only needs the non-profits name and it's membership list to appeal to it's special interest group's goals, without it their proffering would most likely be discarded immediately.

With the name recognition and the assumption that the mailing came from and the proceeds go to an entity the recipient supports, the company reaps a high rate of positive response and a huge "profit", while the entity lending it's name pockets a small, but unworked for, proceed.

The big loser is the "doner" or "purchaser" who paid for something he probably wouldn't have had he/she not thought of it as basically a donation to a non-profit he/she supports.

[jcwit]

Wonder if folks get this worked up over the junk mail received daily regarding the sales at the local hardware, auto dealer, credit card apps, joining aarp, the list is endless. More important how about all the time wasted watching all the commercials on tv.

Who really cares, toss it as one would do junk mail and FORGETABOUTIT!

Problem solved.

[Olevern]

Wonder if folks get this worked up over the junk mail received daily regarding the sales at the local hardware, auto dealer, credit card apps, joining aarp, the list is endless. More important how about all the time wasted watching all the commercials on tv.

Who really cares, toss it as one would do junk mail and FORGETABOUTIT!

Problem solved.

I care, for one. And comparing this scam to junk mail attempting to sell you something is not an accurate comparisom.

For a "for profit" organization to pass themselves off as a trusted non profit and benefit from the half truths they print in their solicitation, for instance, statements like "The NRA is grateful for your support in the past", and "The NRA wants you to have access to the latest in self and home defense information", without saying, "we are not the NRA" leads the reader to believe that the solicitation came from and exclusively benefits the NRA, something that is not true.

I take umbrage at attempts to fraudulently seperate me from my money, and even more so when it is done in the name of an organization that should be about putting every cent of it's members donations to work in the very real fight we are in for our constitutional rights.

I might also state that the NRA has engaged in such questionable fund raisers for many years; as long as I have been a member I have seen the NRA and others under its banner spend much more than my annual dues on trying to seperate me from more of my money.

The only ones I respond to is an occasional donation to the legislative fund (ILA)and I can only hope that that money is not diverted to send out more mailers soliciting money as well.

[jcwit]

So now we turn this into another HATE the NRA thread.

Yes I compare it to junk mail because if its something I do not wish to get/payfor, its junk, plain and simple.

Is that so hard to comprehand?

Anything received in the U.S. mail that is not ordered no one is required to pay for, again, that seems to be a fairly simple concept to understand.

[waksupi]

I'm kind of puzzled by this, and am wondering where their mailing list came from? I haven't received (and don't want to) this, and when I asked at the club shoot last weekend, no one else had got this, either. Strange.

[Olevern]

So now we turn this into another HATE the NRA thread.

Yes I compare it to junk mail because if its something I do not wish to get/payfor, its junk, plain and simple.

Is that so hard to comprehand?

Anything received in the U.S. mail that is not ordered no one is required to pay for, again, that seems to be a fairly simple concept to understand.

I understand just fine, it seems to be you who is unwilling to see the distinction between fraud and junk mail. And, before you ask, yes i am a member of the NRA, but I do not support their questionable money raising schemes.

[jcwit]

I understand just fine, it seems to be you who is unwilling to see the distinction between fraud and junk mail. And, before you ask, yes i am a member of the NRA, but I do not support their questionable money raising schemes.

I guess thats your opinion such as it is.

The fact remains tho that anything received thru the U.S. Mail thats not ordered belongs to the person it was addressed to at no charge.

That is the law, in all 50 states.

If I wish to refer to items received at my mail box unordered as junk mail, so be it, in my mind they are junk, no one can force me to pay for them, nor can any one intimidate me to pay for them.

But if you insist to call it fraud, go ahead, in fact call it whatever you wish, heck for all I care, Pay for it.[smilie=b:

[Olevern]

I guess thats your opinion such as it is.

The fact remains tho that anything received thru the U.S. Mail thats not ordered belongs to the person it was addressed to at no charge.

That is the law, in all 50 states.

If I wish to refer to items received at my mail box unordered as junk mail, so be it, in my mind they are junk, no one can force me to pay for them, nor can any one intimidate me to pay for them.

But if you insist to call it fraud, go ahead, in fact call it whatever you wish, heck for all I care, Pay for it.[smilie=b:

I am certain of one thing, i do not care for your inferrences, therefore I am out of this thread, I have said what I needed to and wish not to expose myself to further abuse.

If you're looking for a fight, go somewhere else. Aint the annonimity of the web great?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

00000p

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

[smilie=p:

[jcwit]

Suppose so, if you think its the proper thing to do.

Check out the meaning of your sig. line! Missing something?

[zxcvbob]

Just about every organization I've ever given money to seems to spend all of it mailing me requests for more money.

I'm thinking about donating $2 to the Bradys to help them go broke faster. ;) If I just send $1 they might figure it out...

[jcwit]

Hey Bob, you might onto something there!

I remember a few years ago there was a similar idea trying to get people to buy 1 or 2 shares of a stock, enough to get voting rights at the annual meetings and influencing the voting.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

:coffee:

[jcwit]

I also received the same E-Mail for the calendar, I do agree that that is a better way to go.

I just don't get wraped up and upset for organizations doing it the other way.

The American Legion, AmVets, Heart Assoc. and many others do the same thing. Usually with small calendars and/or address labels. Heck The Readers Digest at one time would send our their bood of the month bood without being ordered and ask for payment.

Remember also the little license plate key chains the the Disabled Vets used to send out a few decads ago, and they also asked for money for the finders service.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

,,,,,

[jcwit]

To each their own ... We both know where each other stands, although we disagree ... On a few things in life ...

Yup, and I'll bet if we somehow met in real life there would be alot in common between us and more than likely we'd get along just fine, to bad its doubtful that it'll ever happen.

Good Shooting, Good Casting, keep them all in the black.[smilie=s:

[Frank]

I think the idea was to keep sending them to you. If you didn't send it back, then you must have liked it, so you owe them $12.95.

It is a very short video. That is a lot of money for a 15 minute overview on defense tactics. The letter is kind of contradictory because it gives you the return envelope to return the disk, but then they say this one is yours free. Why the smoke and mirrors?

It is a hostile approach that plays on your needs. You obviously like guns and are probably interested in home defense. So now they try to trick you through some scam.
Take the disk and use it for a target! Show us your results. :brokenima

[jonas302]

Well I was thinking about joining the NRA but absulutly will not if they are sending that **** out dealing with that from another club right now

It is a sleazy way of doing business I don't deal with dishonest companys and should not be tolerated at all

[jcwit]

Well I was thinking about joining the NRA but absulutly will not if they are sending that **** out dealing with that from another club right now

It is a sleazy way of doing business I don't deal with dishonest companys and should not be tolerated at all



If you don't belong to the NRA
Don't come whining about it when the next Gun Control Act gets passed!

Nothing like cutting off ones nose to spite their face.

Don't worry, the rest of us will attempt to carry you on our back with our dues and contributions.

Wondering why you even had to "Think about joining"? Should have been a member already.

Lastly, lets not turn this into an NRA bashing thread any more than it already is.

[Frank]

jonas:

Well I was thinking about joining the NRA but absulutly will not if they are sending that **** out dealing with that from another club right now

It is a sleazy way of doing business I don't deal with dishonest companys and should not be tolerated at all
That's right. It's very sleazy. That video was very short for $12.95. And to think they were going to keep sending more disks and charging you $12.95 for each one if you didn't do anything is outrageous! This isn't about gun rights. This is about usury.

[jcwit]

Why did I think you'd post another anti NRA post frank, why oh why?

[Frank]

jcwit:

Why did I think you'd post another anti NRA post frank, why oh why?
Because you know I'm for the little guy. When the little guy eats it, that's where I am. I hate injustice! :wink:

[Ickisrulz]

Well I was thinking about joining the NRA but absulutly will not if they are sending that **** out dealing with that from another club right now

It is a sleazy way of doing business I don't deal with dishonest companys and should not be tolerated at all


Have you been doing anything to protect your rights?

The NRA is arguably" the only game in town." Join the NRA. It's only $35 a year. Sign up your wife. Tell them how you feel. You can opt out of the fundraising junk mail.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Hinged ...

[Ickisrulz]

There are other places than the NRA ... Check out my above links to SAF and GOA, also find you local state association ...

Most importantly contact you elected representatives and tell them your position on things ...

There are other groups, but they don't have the power the NRA does.

Contacting Congress is the other way to try and make a difference.

[montana_charlie]

The NRA's money raising tactics annoy me as well, I suspect that they allow other for profit companies to use their name in raising money for a small cut, much as the PBA did in my time in law enforcement.

The company raised millions, and tens of thousands went into the coffers of the PBA.

It is my guess that that is how the majority of the solicitations we see from the NRA are funded, and how the payout goes.

The NRA (and the PBA) could care less about the amount of money you think is going to your cause doesn't get there, they get some money with no effort or outlay.....you get fleeced.
Your guess, huh?

Well, darnit! Shame on the Patrolman Beneficial Association for raising money they didn't work for ... and double shame on the NRA for contracting with a firm to sell informational DVDs to the shooting public.
Aren't we lucky to have well-informed members, today, who can point out the shadiness of those scams?

Back around 1969, I remember participating (with fervor) in an NRA membership campaign.

The deal was that I would receive a nifty black ball cap with gold filagree on the brim if I renewed my membership. AND ... I would get gold stars to stick on the front (much like a high ranking general) for any others I could get to sign up.

Boy did I ever work hard for those five stars that came with my cap!
A couple of years later, I participated (again) in the membership drive ... and got TEN guys to sign up.

Of course, the scumbag NRA got ten new members that only cost them a little trifling 'prize' while I did all the work. What shame ... no?
I don't remember what the prize was (probably means it wasn't that memorable) but I sure felt like I accmplished something.

Today we have members who prefer to heap shame on the organization (whether they have any facts or not), and chase away prospective new joiners. Participate in a membership drive? You must be joking! Got no time for such wastes of time, and never had any gumption, anyway.

The neighborhood has sure gone to pot ...

CM

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

list!

[zxcvbob]

SAF and GOA do the same thing. Plus the GOA is constantly declaring a new crisis and the only way to fight it is to send them money. If one looks hard enough (and usually it's not that hard) one can always find something wrong with any organization to use as an excuse to not contribute, and even feel smug about it.

The NRA and the SAF are doing good stuff, and I like to be part of that. (GOA, I'm not so sure about, maybe they are too) Then there's the state RKBA agencies, the JFPO, and even the Pink Pistols for the more limp-wristed among us. ;) Surely you can find something to support, unless not supporting is the whole point.

[montana_charlie]

This is not about a membership drive, but rather a drive to get money from the existing membership by not explaining clearly that it really is a promotion by another company allowed to use the NRA's mailing list!
That may have been the original intent, but the thread has already chased away one prospective member who has admitted as much ... and who knows how many others that simply lurk along and get impacted by those who welcome any opportunity to bash the NRA.

So, it has turned into a membership drive, but one which curtails membership ... not promotes it. And, it has already showed some signs of success.

Sarah Brady would be proud ...

CM

[Ickisrulz]

That may have been the original intent, but the thread has already chased away one prospective member who has admitted as much ... and who knows how many others that simply lurk along and get impacted by those who welcome any opportunity to bash the NRA.

So, it has turned into a membership drive, but one which curtails membership ... not promotes it. And, it has already showed some signs of success.

Sarah Brady would be proud ...

CM

Anyone really wanting to or thinking about joining the NRA would not be driven away by this thread. It's just a lame excuse. I've seen similar situations many times in various settings. How many people say they don't want to go to church because "all they want is money"? These people wouldn't go even if money was never mentioned at all.

Huh, maybe membership in the NRA should be a requirement for joining this forum. Many private ranges have that policy.

[waksupi]

Here is what the NRA has been working recently. If you have lame excuses for not helping foot the bills, I doubt you could be depended on for much of anything else. Even if you don't join, you can donate to pull your weight.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=7180

Friday, November 18, 2011


The final conference report on the combined Fiscal Year 2012 Agriculture, Commerce/Justice/Science (CJS) and Transportation/Housing/Urban Development (THUD) Appropriations bills—also known as the “Mini-Bus,” was passed by both the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate, and has been signed into law.

One of the most important ways that Congress has protected the Second Amendment is through a number of general provisions included in various appropriations bills. Many of these provisions have been included in the bills for many years—some of the provisions go back almost three decades. This conference report is no exception, as it contains 12 provisions that strengthen the Second Amendment and protect the American people.

Specifically, the conference report makes PERMANENT the following protections:

Firearms Database/National Gun Registry Prohibition. No funds may be used to create, maintain or administer a database of firearms owners or their firearms. This prohibition has been in place since Fiscal Year 1979, and prevents the federal government from establishing a national gun registry.

Former Firearms Dealers Information Retrieval Prohibition. No funds may be used to electronically retrieve personally identifying information gathered by federal firearms licensees. The provision prohibits the creation of a gun registry from dealers’ records that are required by law to be surrendered to the federal government when a dealer goes out of business. This provision has been included since FY 1997.

Information Gathering Prohibition/24-Hour Destruction of Records. A prohibition on the use of funds to retain any information gathered as a part of an approved instant background check for more than 24 hours. This provision protects the privacy of law-abiding gun buyers by prohibiting gun buyers’ personal information about legal gun purchases from being retained by government authorities for more than 24 hours after a firearm background check. It has been included since FY 1999.

In addition, the conference report adds two NEW provisions designed to bolster our gun rights and protect the Second Amendment from unelected bureaucrats who would twist the law to facilitate their gun-control agenda.

Prohibit Funding for “Gun Walking” Operations. No funds may be used to knowingly transfer firearms to agents of drug cartels unless U.S. law enforcement personnel control or monitor the firearms at all time. This amendment is designed to prevent the Justice Department (or any government entity) from spending taxpayer dollars on “gun walking” programs like Operation Fast and Furious.

Shotgun Importation Protections. Prohibits the Department of Justice from requiring imported shotguns to meet a “sporting purposes” test that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has used to prohibit the importation of shotguns with one or more features disliked by the Agency, such as adjustable stocks, extended magazine tubes, etc.

Finally, the conference report RETAINS the following provisions:

Curio and Relic Definition. A prohibition on the use of funds to change the definition of a “curio or relic.” This provision protects the status of collectible firearms for future generations of firearms collectors.

Physical Inventory Prohibition. Prohibition on a requirement to allow a physical inventory of Federal Firearms Licensees. The Clinton Administration proposed a rule in 2000 to require an annual inventory by all licensees. While the Bush Administration eventually withdrew the proposal, Congress has still passed this preventive provision every year since FY 2007.

Business Activity. A prohibition on the use of funds to deny a Federal Firearms License (FFL) or renewal of an FFL on the basis of low business activity. This provision prohibits BATFE from denying federal firearms license applications or renewals based on a dealer’s low business volume alone.

Firearms Trace Data Disclaimer. A requirement that any trace data released must include a disclaimer stating such trace data cannot be used to draw broad conclusion about firearms-related crime.

Firearms Parts Export to Canada. A prohibition on the use of funds to require an export license for small firearms parts valued at less than $500 for export to Canada. This provision removed an unnecessary and burdensome requirement on U.S. gun manufacturers that was imposed under the Clinton Administration.

Importation of Curios and Relics. A prohibition on the use of funds to arbitrarily deny importation of qualifying curio and relic firearms. This provision ensures that collectible firearms that meet all legal requirements for importation into the United States are not prevented from import by executive branch fiat.

Transfer of BATFE Authority. A prohibition on the use of funds to transfer any duty or responsibility of the BATFE to any other agency or department. This provision was written in response to a Clinton Administration plan to transfer firearms enforcement to the FBI or Secret Service. It also prohibits the Executive branch from skirting the will of Congress by allowing another agency to implement policies the BATFE is prohibited from implementing.




Copyright 2011, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

[Frank]

123Dieselbenz:

This is not about a membership drive, but rather a drive to get money from the existing membership by not explaining clearly that it really is a promotion by another company allowed to use the NRA's mailing list!

Jonas:

Well I was thinking about joining the NRA but absulutly will not if they are sending that **** out dealing with that from another club right now

It is a sleazy way of doing business I don't deal with dishonest companys and should not be tolerated at all

Tactics that are used to alienate the membership are contrary to the group's purpose. Who was in charge of the program should be suspended with an apology letter to all the members. Also, there shouldn't be multiple organizations. Multiple organizations end up competing with each other, a loss. A meeting should be held between all organizations to come to a general consensus and state a common mandate. Subsequently, the smaller organizations should be disbanded and merge into a new organization. Think an NRA on steroids.

[MikeS]

Transfer of BATFE Authority. A prohibition on the use of funds to transfer any duty or responsibility of the BATFE to any other agency or department. This provision was written in response to a Clinton Administration plan to transfer firearms enforcement to the FBI or Secret Service. It also prohibits the Executive branch from skirting the will of Congress by allowing another agency to implement policies the BATFE is prohibited from implementing.

I'm curious, with all the organizations being rolled into the Homeland Security dept. doesn't this part no longer apply?

[HammerMTB]

Wow! What a b!tch session this turned into! I've seen 'em before....
I got one of the DVDs, months ago. I knew from the accompanying docs that it was free if I wanted to keep it. I kept it. I think that sends a message all by itself. They sent several "bills"
I ignored every one. I contribute to NRA, but don't want to encourage this kind of fund-raising. NRA has done and continues to do a great deal of important work for all of us. I would hope we don't lose sight of that as all the b!tching about poorly thought out fund-raising tactics goes on.
The worst part seems not to be their tactics, but how quickly we take umbrage at them and each other over something of so little consequence.

[sparky45]

MikeS brings up a good point. Anyone have an answer? Seems Justice was in charge when "fast and furious" went down.

[dakotashooter2]

I am not currently a member of the NRA however I do send them some a money order now and then. I figure that money gets better spent as 1/2 of if doesn't get spent trying to solicit MORE money from me.

[waksupi]

I'm curious, with all the organizations being rolled into the Homeland Security dept. doesn't this part no longer apply?

This is a new rule that specifically prevents HS from rolling up BATF.

[Frank]

HammerMTB:

Wow! What a b!tch session this turned into! I've seen 'em before....
I got one of the DVDs, months ago. I knew from the accompanying docs that it was free if I wanted to keep it. I kept it. I think that sends a message all by itself. They sent several "bills"
I ignored every one. I contribute to NRA, but don't want to encourage this kind of fund-raising. NRA has done and continues to do a great deal of important work for all of us. I would hope we don't lose sight of that as all the b!tching about poorly thought out fund-raising tactics goes on.
The worst part seems not to be their tactics, but how quickly we take umbrage at them and each other over something of so little consequence.

Wow is right. So they did keep sending you bills, but then you didn't mind. Most do mind getting bills they didn't expect.

Joining the NRA costs only $10 per year. You don't have to get the magazine. Who reads those anyway?

[cbrick]

The reason behind this type of fund raiser and many others from the NRA is really pretty simple. They do it because it's effective. Annoying? Yep, because it's not really up front and honest but you can bet the NRA knows to the penny what it costs to do this type of mailing and how much it brings in. If it weren't making money it would stop in a heart beat.

So it annoys you because it's somethingy you didn't order and didn't want, simply write return to sender on it and be done with it. I agree, it is annoying simply by the volume of mail they send out but if they simply sent out a request for money (they do) there is no doubt it wouldn't be as effective. As long as it's legal and ethical more power to them and every dime they make FOR ALL OF US.

Rick

[waksupi]

Well, I can see Frank is not an NRA member. $10 a year?

[41 mag fan]

This is just what the antis would love to see. Dissention within the ranks.

As the saying goes..United we stand, Divided we fall.

I too had the DVD's sent for quite awhile. Then I had them stopped, and they did for about a year and then out of the blue they sent another one. I kept it, and the bills came in, and I threw them away. I didn't ask or want to be back on the DVD club again. That was a year ago and they've quit sending me a bill, and DVD's for that matter.

I can say proudly, I'm a life member, my wifes a yearly member, and so is my boy.
But every quarter the NRA gets $25.00 from us, and it's like Christmas around here 2-3 times a week it seems, with stuff coming from Natchez, Midway and Midsouth, ect. Each and everytime I contribute to the NRA roundup. I'd say at best they get another $200+ / yr from me for that.

I would love to see someone start up a round up /collection at gunshows to be sent to groups like the NRA. Send it to them in the name of that gunshow. It might only be $50 or so but it's a step we need in solidarity.


To the people who don't belong I ask, what would we have right now if it wasn't for the NRA, SAF and GOA ect??
We would be worse than Canada, Mexico, Australia, England, China, Venezuela, Cuba, and the list goes on.


To the people who do belong and contribute, I commend you.
As sad as it sounds, the NRA is a lobbyist group that has to put money into politicians pockets. Most politicians could give a rats *** if we had any rights, let alone the Right to Bear Arms.
The NRA could speak till they're blue in the face about they've got an 8 million + membership in their ranks, but without the capital to fight anti gun bills thru the courts, and the capital to show that a membership of 8 million+ has the clout to decide elections, they might as well be peeing in the wind.

I too don't always agree with NRA's decisions, but they haven't sold us out yet on the fight to keep and fight to expand our freedoms of gun ownership.
One thing I've noticed in the last couple of years, is the movement towards pro gun ownership.
CC permits are permissable in 49 of the 50 states now, more pro gun bills have been introduced in the state and federal gov'ts and are getting passed.
More pro hunting bills have been introduced in the state and federal gov'ts and are getting passed.
More shows are on TV than ever before that deals with guns and hunting.

I myself like to hope and think, this shift and change in attitudes towards guns has to do with the branching off of groups, like the NRA did back in the 80's, and started educating the public about gun safety like Eddie Eagle, NRA sponsored gun safety courses, educating the general public overall about the lies and myths the anti crowd puts out.
It took alot of money, time and effort from the NRA and other groups, plus loads and loads of volunteers to educate and promote to a generation of kids that now are of the age where they are joining our ranks.

So even though, some on here don't agree with how the NRA operates and asks for money, the one thing that needs to be done is the showing of an unconditional unity of our ranks, regardless of whether you are rich or poor, or whether you agree with the NRA or not.

I'm sure the brady blunders have hoards of volunteers who surf the web, just looking at sites like this one, gathering ammunition in their quest to eliminate guns here in the U.S. and worldwide. Any little tid bit of info they can gather and use they will. Having heated arguements about the NRA is just one thing they love to see....

Dissention within the ranks.
United we stand, Divided we fall.

[HammerMTB]

HammerMTB:


Wow is right. So they did keep sending you bills, but then you didn't mind. Most do mind getting bills they didn't expect.

Joining the NRA costs only $10 per year. You don't have to get the magazine. Who reads those anyway?

If I took exception to every bill I get that is in some way incorrect or overtly false, I'd have had a heart attack from all the trouble and worry it got me. And all that long ago. I don't encourage them, but even if I don't expect them, I deal with them ALL in pretty short order. The majority of them can just be ignored. A few require a phone call. That doesn't take long, and off the bill goes any improper charges.

As far as NRA membership, I have been a member since 1976. Life member since 1980. Currently Patron member.
Since you brought it up, I thought I'd share. Where are you on the continuum?
Happy with their work and services, right? :coffeecom

[Frank]

waksupi:

Well, I can see Frank is not an NRA member. $10 a year?
No, I'm a liberty member. I just don't get the magazine.

HammerMTB:

If I took exception to every bill I get that is in some way incorrect or overtly false, I'd have had a heart attack from all the trouble and worry it got me. And all that long ago. I don't encourage them, but even if I don't expect them, I deal with them ALL in pretty short order. The majority of them can just be ignored. A few require a phone call. That doesn't take long, and off the bill goes any improper charges.
I think you've got the right attitude. Use'em and lose'em. [smilie=f:

NRA's OK. That video wasn't bad. I liked the part in the video where he said something like, "You in the house! I have a firearm and am prepared to use it!" Question: Is that really the best idea? Telling the intruder that you're armed and your location?

[Crawdaddy]

I also don't care for the free gifts. "Made In China!"

x2. I just loved seeing my free gift arrive after renewing my membership for 3 years, right up until I saw "MADE IN CHINA" stamped on it.

[Sixgun Symphony]

There is a telephone number on the back of your NRA membership card. Dial the number and tell them to take you off of their junk mail list.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Become a Life Member and vote for new leadership to end the use of junk mail.

[HammerMTB]

NRA's OK. That video wasn't bad. I liked the part in the video where he said something like, "You in the house! I have a firearm and am prepared to use it!" Question: Is that really the best idea? Telling the intruder that you're armed and your location?

That's the method recommended by NRA and a number of defensive firearms trainers. They also say to call 911 and leave the phone on so all that is recorded. All of it is there as defense in a "justifiable homicide" investigation.
I see their point but every circumstance is different. No reason to turn this thread into a weapons and tactics discussion, but if someone wants to do things differently, I can understand there are many points of view.
My point of view is that once someone is in my house without my permission, they'll be leaving on a stretcher.

[cbrick]

My point of view is that once someone is in my house without my permission, they'll be leaving on a stretcher.

Same here, they would have to be called a "bullet sponge" the way they would be soaking up bullets.

Rick

[Harv33]

Yes, some time back I received a cd, dvd, from NRA , I had not sent for. I never opened the thing. Later I got a bill from the knuckle heads wanting payment !!. I sent it back with a note to Respect the image of NRA and leave the so called free gift to the trash advertisers.!!. Also sent a letter to the NRA to get their act together,,enough greed for trash info !!.. :roll:

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.lie! ;)