Loading 40 S&W with cast?

[Waldoone]

Has anyone had any success in casting and or loading for the 40S&W? Would like to hear from you. Looking for advice and encouragement in persuing this round.

[scattershot]

Yep, that's about all I shoot any more. 170-180 grain boo lit with 4.0 Red Dot for around 950 fps.

[Rangefinder]

Ditto exactly. 180gr. truncated cone and 175 SWC with 4gr Red Dot, 165gr HP'd SWC with 4.4gr Red Dot. It's about the only thing I ever feed mine.

[Waldoone]

Thanks for the replies guys. Would either of you have a recipe to go with this load. I'm considering the MiHec MP mold (160gr HP / 170gr) solids for this cal. I already use his molds for 9mm and 45. Seems to do real well for me in those cal's.
Thanks , Jim

[Wally]

I shoot a Taurus 101AF..I use the Lee .40 155 SWC with 5.0 grains of HP-38...very accurate...

[bigboredad]

I have used 7gr of hs-6 and the lee 170tc that drops to 180 in a stock glock barrel with no problem

[ItZaLLgooD]

4.7 grains of Unique and a TL 175 grainer from Lee. Nice and gentle. Works perfect in my .

[Dennis Eugene]

Some one once told me that the 40S&W was a troublesome round to load for. But as I had already been casting and loading it for a couple years with zero problems I paid no attention to what they said. Dennis

[Mavrick]

I'm testing a .40 with a chamber that allows an OAL of 1.20", with the Lee 175 TC from a 6C mold. I usually use an alloy of WW+2%tin, and size to .401".
The lubes I've tried are BAC, 45-45-10, allox- dipped, Red Carnuba, and Red Rooster. I've also tried a home-made pan-lube of Parafin, candlewax, vasoline, and beeswax.
I've tested with OALs of 1.09, 1.12, 1.14, 1.17, and 1.20". YMMV here.
I've tested primers by CCI, WW, RP, Fiocchi, Magtech, and Federal.
The powders I've tried were WW231, AA#5, TiteGroup, PowerPistol, BlueDot, Bullseye, RedDot, 800x, Clays, WST, GreenDot, HS-6, WSF, Unique, S1000, AA#2, 700x, AA#7, Zip, and AA#9. There are other powders loaded in my test boxes, but haven't been fired, yet.
All are fired carefully across my chronograph, an Oehler M33, with a 5' screen-spacing. All notes are meticulous, and as extensive as possible, but, as yet, incomplete.
Starting at the recommended "start" by the appropriate loading manual, and progressing, there have been none that wouldn't feed...or fire. The only time the velocities have varied any amount, is when a small amount of an "iffy" powder was used. Sometimes, adding powder improved the situation. Always...changing powder improved it.
Because of the throat in my chamber, I won't give the amounts of powder, I shoot.
The .40 in not a difficult cartridge to load, and it is less problematic than other, high-pressure cases.
Have fun,
Gene

[sewerman68]

I have had success loading .40 s&w with the mihec 402 150. My boolits come out at 158 gr for the hollow point and 168 gr for the solid using 50/50 ww& plumbing lead. I water quench. I am getting great accuracy with silhouette and 231. I tumble lube with 45 45 10 and have zero leading in my CZ rami.

[sqlbullet]

I shoot 10mm, but several friends have 40S&W. They all like my 175 grain Lee SWC TL, with lee snot, over a medium charge of Unique.

Watch your size, and don't use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Beyond that you should be fine.

[truckmsl]

Well over 70K cast .40 rounds through my Glocks. 3.7 grains WST and a 180 grain truncated cone at OAL 1.135 gets me to 850fps for my target load.

[TNFrank]

4.7 grains of Unique and a TL 175 grainer from Lee. Nice and gentle. Works perfect in my .

I'm going to use this boolit in my PX4 and was thinking 5.2grs of Unique. I'm looking for around 950fps and I'm casting this boolit at 183grs. and sizing to .401" using a Lee sizing die and liq. alox. Should I back down my load to 4.8-5.0grs maybe?

P.S.
Update, went with 5.0grs of Unique and it's a very nice load to shoot. Feels more like a 9mm to me then a 40cal and functions and feeds fine in my pistol. I have to say, it's a winner.

[NuJudge]

I shoot a lot of Lee 175gr TL bullets, with a lot of Accurate Arms #7 behind them. One of my Beretta barrels has a big groove diameter, and leads like mad with .401" bullets, the others do not.

CDD

[bbs70]

175g tc Lee boolit.
5.5g AA#5 0r 5.5g Unique both wonderfully accurate.
Glock 22 with Lone Wolf barrel.
I've lost track of how many 1000s of rounds I've fired with these 2 loads.

[mongo]

175gr Lee TC cast from ww, Lubed with 45/45/10 over 4.7gr 231 in a Glock 23 with a Storm Lake barrel is my favorite. Couple hundred rounds a week, All good

[P.K.]

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/IrishEKU/100_1306.jpg

4.9 gr. 700X Boolit, 401-175 TC

[Whistler]

I've got a Glock 21 with a custom 10mm barrel. Works fine with Lyman 401638 175gn TC that I honed the bevel off of.

[popper]

Is the Lee TL 175 T/C mold any good? Contemplating getting into casting - would start with 40SW and #2 lead. Presently shoot MBC 180 T/C.

[geargnasher]

Here's a copy/paste of my general advice on loading the .40 from another thread:



You're starting out with a tough project with cast, the .40 S&W is one of the most difficult calibers to get going well, and that's usually due to lack of understanding of its special needs compared to, say, .45 ACP. I'll try to point out the potential issues for you to be aware of going into this so you can make the necessary checks and corrections and hopefully save some heachaches.

1. The .40 is designed as a "magnum pressure" cartridge, operating at over twice the pressures of .45 ACP, so a couple of things are different. The main one is the .40 brass is very hard and very tough, the other is it has thick walls. These two things create a big issue with our relatively soft cast boolits, because when we seat the boolits, the brass can be stronger than the lead and actually swage the boolit down undersized by a thousandth or so. Why does this matter? It matters because when fired, the boolit will sometimes be smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel, and if it is, the hot gas will leak by the boolit and erode the sides of it (not melt like some think, but erode) like a water hose blasting at dirt, and this will cause the dreaded "leading" of the bore. The lead "dust" from the gas leaks mists out ahead of the boolit and gets ironed on the barrel under very high pressure, leaving streaks of lead in the barrel. Subsequent shots add to this accumulation by the same action, plus by abrasion, because lead loves to stick to lead when rubbed together under pressure.

2. Part of the reason that the hard, tough cases are an issue with cast boolits is because all the standard dies that I've seen are made for copper bullets, which are typically .001-2" smaller than groove diameter, therefore the expander plugs are too small and don't expand the case body enough to accept cast boolits without squishing the boolits. Often, a custom expander plug is necessary to stretch the brass enough to get the proper tension (.001-2") on the larger cast boolits without any ill effect.

3. The Lee Factory Crimp Die usually gives problems too, because it's made for copper-jacketed bullets in the .397" range, not cast boolits in the .401" range, and the carbide post-sizer ring in the bottom of the die will size brass and boolit together and your boolit will come out .397" after running the cartridge through the die! .397" boolits in a .40 will most certainly lead.

4. Hardness has little to do with leading, boolit fit does. The boolit has to enter the barrel slightly larger than groove diameter. If it's a slight interference fit and of the correct hardness for the pressure and velocity, and lubed with a decent lube, it won't leak and it won't lead. This is the whole "secret" to shooting cast boolits without them leading the bore. "Harder is better" is a myth we try very hard to dispell here, because it just isn't true most of the time, so if you've heard it, try to disregard it.

Some more tips:
Slug the bore of your gun with a dead-soft lead ball, fishing sinker, etc. It's important to use soft lead with no springback. Lighly oil the slug and barrel and pound it through from the muzzle end with a mallet and brass rod wrapped in electrical tape, don't use a wooden dowel. Measure the groove impressions (the high spots on the slug) and that will be your groove diameter, size your boolits larger than this.

Pull a seated/crimped boolit with an inertial puller and measure the boolit to make certain it is at least .001" larger than the groove diameter of the gun. If not, figure out what's making it smaller, and fix it.

Balance the load. If you want a mild load, use a softer alloy, like 8-12 bhn, and use a powder in the faster burn rate spectrum like Clays or 231. For medium velocity/pressure, Universal, Unique, or similar work well, and air-cooled wheel weights (11-14 bhn, usually) all the way up to "Hard Cast" can work. For full-snort stuff, opinions vary, but I've had good luck with water-quenched or heat-treated wheel weights at 20+ bhn (almost the same as straight linotype), stiff charges of Longshot or Blue Dot, premium high-pressure rifle lube, and magnum primers.

Clean out ALL, I mean ALL traces of the copper fouling. Use a good, ammonia-based copper solvent and follow the directions, or use an electro-chemical device like an Outers Foul-Out. Lead will stick to copper fouling like you wouldn't believe, often making you question your technique when all that's wrong is the copper fouling in the barrel was grabbing lead from the boolits as they went by.

Hope this helps some, if you have any questions or need clarification about anything I've said, don't be afraid to ask.

Gear

[9.3X62AL]

Post #20 needs to be stickied. GOOD INFO, and applicable to 9mm and 10mm as well.

[thebigmac]

GEAR, Thanks a lot for posting that information about the .40 S&W. A lot of people will
now load a better product. (a more safe load also). I agree with 9.3, this should be a
"sticky". Thanks again. thebigmac

[Mavrick]

Gear knows! Just follow what he says and you can't go wrong.
I just got my new, unfired('til tomorrow) competition Tanfoglio .40, and some handloads went together to run across the chrono, hopefully tomorrow, barring wind or too much cold.
The barrel has polygonal rifling, so some will want to keep an eye out in the belief it can't be done.
The barrel will only have lead boolits go through it, as I have no reason to use J-bullets. I DO use them in other guns, tho'.
The first loads, FWIW, will be a series of Solo 1000 with different amounts, and different OALs. The boolit is a Lee 175 TC cast of Lyman #2, AC, lubed with BAC, and sized to .401". The primers are CCI 500s.
I forsee no difficulties.
The gun will have been totally unfired, 'til now.
Have fun, 'til I can report back,
Gene

[Roundnoser]

Great info here!

[excess650]

I shot a Springfield Armory P9 for IPSC nearly 20 years ago. My mould was the Lyman 40143 (38-40) and I loaded over enough AA#5 to get 1000fps average (175gr boolit at that velocity made MAJOR).

It was never any problem loading or with leading. The shape of the 40143 fed like corn through a goose.

[Jimmy]

My .40 S&W cast loads are more accurate and lead less than my 9mm and .45 acp loads. Also, I break the rules and shoot cast lead out of a factory Glock 23 barrel. I get no leading and I get great accuracy.
Lee Tumble Lube 401-175-SWC. Lubed with half JPW/Lee Alox. Sized to .401. Lubed again after sizing. Loaded with 5.5 gr WSF with an OAL of 1.135". I just got a chronograph, so I'll have to see how fast these shoot. Definitely feels full powered.

[Roundnoser]

My .40 S&W cast loads are more accurate and lead less than my 9mm and .45 acp loads. Also, I break the rules and shoot cast lead out of a factory Glock 23 barrel. I get no leading and I get great accuracy.
Lee Tumble Lube 401-175-SWC. Lubed with half JPW/Lee Alox. Sized to .401. Lubed again after sizing. Loaded with 5.5 gr WSF with an OAL of 1.135". I just got a chronograph, so I'll have to see how fast these shoot. Definitely feels full powered.

(Sorry, mini-Hijack...) Hi Jimmy. I noticed you were from Queen Creek, AZ. Do you get over to Magma Engineering at all? If it were me, I'd be over there every day...drooling!

[BulletFactory]

I never could get the .40 to work, but I honestly believe its a bad barrel. When I get my M&P out of layaway, I'll give it another shot.

[BulletFactory]

Lighly oil the slug and barrel and pound it through from the muzzle end with a mallet and brass rod wrapped in electrical tape, don't use a wooden dowel.

Ok, why not use a wooden dowel? Thats the first thing I would think of.

[Mavrick]

I didn't get to shoot the day I wanted as I had hurt my back, and ended up going to the hospital. This week I did, though
During my downtime, I was able to load up some more ammo, and ran a bunch through with interesting results.
I loaded some with Unique, some Herco, and Green Dot.
The Solo 1000 purred through at from 940fps to 1020fps. It was very consistant and there was no problem with ejection. I had a little problem with the longer OALs, but it is a problem with the gun, not the ammo. That's being fixed, now.
It seems to shoot a bit better as the velocity goes up. "Major" power factor, for Action shooting starts at 965fps with this cartridge, so I prefer to stay in the Major and up range, maybe 1000-1050fps.
The Lee 175 TC from my 6-holer slips through the gun like it was made for it. (Prolly was!)
Green Dot had a higher velocity than I origionally thought, but the consistancy was as good as could be expected (better).
All loads were weighed, but later will be measured for bulk production. I load on an RCBS Rockchucker, and use an RCBS measure. Before it's all over, I'll have used, and evaluated 'most every powder, on it's own merits...in relation to the .40.
I use an Oehler M33 Chronotach with a 5' first screen, and 5' spread, and often compare previous-shot loads to see if there is any variation. There's not.
I checked the polygonal-rifling about every 30 or so rounds, for leading. There was very little, and mostly at the last inch of rifling. Hmmm, this is a clue!
The barrel is stainless, and I use a stainless brush. One pass, and you'd never know there ever had been ANY leading. I'll be working on the lube-issue as time goes on.
I'll prolly run the velocities up a bit, as time goes, as the idea when I bought the gun was for Steel-Challenge. Some of the Steel targets can use a little extra "thump."
So far I am QUITE happy with the rifling. It seems to move the lead a little bit, instead of cutting it. I'll contiue to evaluate. I intend to try slightly larger boolits, too. .402" will be the next sizer-die, and as-cast will be tried @.406".
Have fun,
Gene

[thompsonm1a1]

all i shoot out of my penn. state police beretta 40 is cast and have no troubles at all. i size to .400. i need a bit more practice to get my groups a bit tighter on paper.

[plainsman456]

I shoot the RCBS 180 cast boolit out of my Browning HI-Power with 5.1 grains of Unique.
After shooting about 400 or so I read somewhere that this cartridge was fickle or hard to load for,glad I didn't read that before I started loading for it.

[Rangefinder]

After shooting about 400 or so I read somewhere that this cartridge was fickle or hard to load for,glad I didn't read that before I started loading for it.

SHHHHHHHUSH! Don't say that so loud--mine doesn't know--it still thinks it's at the all-you-can-eat reloader's buffet line--eats whatever I give it and asks for a new plate.

[jimkim]

I load mine just like I load my 45. I just followed the recipe. I do use the Lee FCD as a bulge buster and for final crimp/sizing. I've had no malfunctions, and I shoot small(2" maybe) river stones, one liter bottle caps, and old 12ga hulls at 20yds. I think it's pretty accurate. The boolits are lubed with a mix of Best Lube, LLA and mineral spirits. 1 stick of lube melted with 4oz of LLA with 64 oz of mineral spirits. I may dilute it some more. The bullets are a bit tacky and after shooting 42 rounds though my SW40GVE the barrel looked like it had just been cleaned. I think I can go with a little less lube.
Oh yeah, the load is:
40 S&W
Lee 40-175-TC(185gr, air-cooled WW, unsized .403" the Lee FCD probably sizes it for me)
AA#7 7.5gr@950fps,
Tula SP Magnum primer,
Speer Lawman brass, OAL 1.112",
shot in a S&W SW40GVE(Sigma) 4"(3.9) barrel, all rounds checked with a Dillon gauge,

[MT Gianni]

Ok, why not use a wooden dowel? Thats the first thing I would think of.

Because when you use light blows from a heavy [2.5 lb or greater] hammer it can break the dowel.

[Roundgunner]

I have read some of the problems people have with the 40 but in the Dillon 650 the 40 loads the most trouble free and my M&Ps eat them faster than I can make them. I do not make them quite full power but close. The Para P-16 likes them too but hardly gets out to play, M&Ps feel like a revolver but never run out of boolits.

Lee 175 TL, 45-45-10 lube, 3.2 Titegroup = 755 for IDPA Power Factor
Lee 175 TL, 45-45-10 lube, 4.5 Titegroup = 965 for almost full power

[sargenv]

*shrug*

I've loaded tens of thousands of cast boolits in the 40 S&W for the Sig 229, Para P16, and S&W 610 (utilizing 40 S&W cases instead of the 10 mm cases) and I've had few issues (other than my refusal to clean a gun until it starts "acting up"). I've loaded them light for the 610 and heavy for all three with few issues.. and my usual bullet lube is tumble lubed JPW. I've used the pointy boolit molds in the light and medium weights, the Lee 175 truncated cone, a custom ~185 long round nose made for me by Veral Smith, and the 200 gr Truncated cone NOE.. all without issue.

All of these loads were made on a Dillon 650 using Dillon dies sometimes using 'Glocked' brass.. No problems feeding them in any of the guns listed.. I use a slight taper crimp. Just enough to take the bell out and bring the case mouth to a nominal .420". I am not convinced that the Lee "factory crimp die" is anything more than a gimmick.

[garym1a2]

I started trying this load with my Lee 175Tc a couple weeks ago and the 3.7gr of WST is AWESUME. 146PF and recoils like a 9mm. I run this in a Glock22 with standard springs and it feeds 100%!


Well over 70K cast .40 rounds through my Glocks. 3.7 grains WST and a 180 grain truncated cone at OAL 1.135 gets me to 850fps for my target load.

[BulletFactory]

Well over 70K cast .40 rounds through my Glocks. 3.7 grains WST and a 180 grain truncated cone at OAL 1.135 gets me to 850fps for my target load.


What alloy/hardness are you using? WW, air cooled, water dropped?

[philzilla]

great info thanks

[takasaki]

Full size .40 Desert eagle baby eagle, original all steel frame, polygonal rifling and i have shot thousands and thousands of cast bullets through it in the last 10 years with no ill affects. I use 50/50 soft lead/coww with a touch of tin, pc the bullets , size , load , shoot, repeat.
Sounds like your of to a great start, keep it up, lots of good info on this site.

[Mavrick]

I was trying some loads with .406" (as cast) Lee 175 TC boolits.
They would feed just fine, and usually seat in the chamber. I did have to seat them a little shorter than some of the smaller-sized boolits. The .401" and .403" boolits will load and shoot to 1.12" OAL, but the .406"s will only go to 1.14".
There is a definite advantage in accuracy to the .403"s. I use the .401"s to compare loads when testing loads, but I have sizers in both so shoot both easily.
I do quite a bit of testing with different lubes, too, but haven't found an advantage with any one, yet.
I am going back into Steel Challenge competition, now that my schedule has changed, so I'll be testing for that, too.
Have fun,
Gene