Annealing in the lead pot?

[walkswithsticks]

Sorry fellows. There just does not seem to be a good spot to ask about this. Since Black Powder Cartridge Paper Patching is my project, I will ask here.

I have some 38/55 brass that has been reloaded in excess of 10 times that is starting to split about 20% of the necks. Before playing around with annealing that, I decided to try some 357 Mag brass that I reaized to 256 Win. It had a few splits after the first firing, so I figured annealling may help there too.

I know that I have read a "how to" thread, but I cannot find it. Anyway, while I had a pot of lead melted today, I thought I would give it a try. I found out real quick that I did not know what I was doing.

I thought I read that 450 degrees was about right, and you should hold the brass in the melt just until the lead did not stick. I never got to that point. After two minutes, it was still sticking and I was getting enough heat transfer in the pliers that I had to pull out. I insulated the pliers with a scrap of an old towel and it began to smoke and char. So.....

About how long should it take?
How do I remove the lead from the brass?
Should there be a color change?

Thanks,
Bill

[Lead pot]

Bill you might do it with pure lead you might get away with less sticking to the brass. You don't want tin in it, that will make it a solder.

[John Boy]

About how long should it take?
How do I remove the lead from the brass?
Should there be a color change?

Bill, 1st - annealing using your lead pot to anneal can be a real messy process. Use a propane torch and do it efficiently and quickly

* Each round using a torch will take you about 15-20 seconds. The correct annealing temperature is 625 - 650F (not 450F). When the color changes to a dark straw or a blue-green, drop the case in a bucket of ice water. Any color red is 800 up to 1000F and you will have ruined the case

[shooter93]

I've used the hot lead method. Dip the case in mica first and the lead won't stick. I would think graphite would work also. Cartridge brass will start to soften at 450 degrees so I never get it red hot so it may not be fully annealed but it is softened enough to prevent splits.

[montana_charlie]

I thought I read that 450 degrees was about right, and you should hold the brass in the melt just until the lead did not stick. I never got to that point. After two minutes, it was still sticking and I was getting enough heat transfer in the pliers that I had to pull out. I insulated the pliers with a scrap of an old towel and it began to smoke and char. So.....
Those who successfully anneal their brass by dipping in lead say that you start out with holding the head of the case in your fingers.

You time how long it takes for the case to become too hot to hold ... and that becomes the length of time you dip the cases, regardless of how you hold onto them.

I believe the pot temperature is 600 or better.

They (he?) will also tell you to dip the case mouth in oil just before submerging in the molted lead.

You also need a means of controlling how far you insert the case, so that all are annealed to the same length.


http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18186Cartridge brass will start to soften at 450 degrees.
I am not arguing with that statement. You may be totally correct.

However, your use of that number prompts me to post a link to a recent thread on another forum where a 'similar' subject got discussed.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18186

CM

[shooter93]

I crank the pot up to casting temp MC but brass will start to soften at 450. Like I say I never heat cases red hot and quench simply because I don't want to let high heat reach the case head, just a saftey thing on my part. With short cases it's impossible to hold them with your fingers but once you do enough longer cases you learn the amount of time to hold them in even if using pliers. I don't think it's necessary to heat the red hot, they may not be totally annealed but they will soften some.

[para45lda]

Works for making springs too.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Try the lead pot method yourself. Find out it is lousy.

Then go to Varmint Al's website and see how to do it nicely. He has the professional metalurgist background.

BvT

[walkswithsticks]

As I usually discover, not all good ideas work in real practice.

Anyway, I spun some on the end of a drill in a flame until I got a dark blue sheen just past a dull straw color.

The next time I shoot, I will find out how well I did.

Bill

[Seth Hawkins]

I know this thread is about using a lead pot to anneal cases, but I thought I'd offer a better solution...

I use one of these: Bench Source Case Annealing Machine (http://www.bench-source.com/id81.html). It works great, it's repeatable - every case is heated the same - not just duration, but location, too, it's very adjustable, and quite versatile - I use it for my .44-77 brass and my 12 ga brass, and it's also very well made. It's a little pricey, but my .44-77 brass deserves the best.;)

This is a really nice piece of kit. If you have expensive brass to anneal, or a lot of brass that needs to be annealed, this might be for you. If you just need to anneal a few cases now & then, it's probably not.

[kokomokid]

Tried dipping brass in bullet alloy, then tried dipping brass in peanut oil before the lead pot neither worked. Now I heat to 750 by temp indicator and get a good anneal. Tried 650 but needs to stay at this temp several seconds. I index my loads so I try to have the small stain the indicator leaves in correct position.

[3006guns]

I've used the "hold in the fingers until it gets hot, then dunk" method and it works rather well. Ice water is not necessary, just cold.

If that isn't to your liking, place all the deprimed cases in a shallow pan of water (up to the shoulder/neck) and heat them individually to a brown color with a propane torch for a few seconds, then using a pencil tip the case over into the water. Since the lower portion of the case was in water, it isn't touched by the heat. You'll be suprised how fast you can go through cases with this method.

It IS possible to heat the neck to red hot very rapidly, so it takes practice. When I first tried this years ago I had no reference to go by and heated a number of .38 special cases red, to the point where you could crush them like soft butter. I learned to watch for the color to turn brown, then dunk. It works.