40cal to 45cal 1 Step die review

[GRUMPA]

OK first time doing this so if things aren't right you'll know why. First off I was pondering on buying the die set for some time strictly because of the price involved. When I finally convinced myself to just go ahead and do it I bought them. Delivery took a few weeks and I was pacing the floor like an expectant father on the arrival of the first born. Well it finally came in the mail and I was a happy camper after that.

Most people when they get something new is read the directions that came with the dies, or in my case via the P.M. I read them from top to bottom twice and understood them OK I thought and away I went. First thing that I would like to stress is the fact that the brass must be clean from debris of all sorts. I have one of the rotary tumblers that has the stainless steel pins and after 3 hours they come out looking like new.

The one step die part we'll come back to later as I chose to take a different approach. I elected to trim my brass to .700 from .830 because I wanted to be as close to factory components as I can till I got better at it. First picture is just shorter that factory and the second is a before and after trimming shot.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764e779e1197827.jpg
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a6cac072b.jpg

I had a custom cutter made that trims as well as deburrs the brass, I did 35 of them in 15 minutes complete with this.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a5735a9d2.jpg

I hooked up my drill to this and away I went. 2 More of just the custom cutter/trimmer.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a57304702.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a5729110d.jpg
When I got my dies everything that could be thought of was already done. Like BT sent along pieces numbered 1 thru 5 to guide the user with a visual aid (as well as written instructions) thru the various steps.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a6cb0f328.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a719f3b81.jpg

Once I got the trimming part figure out Annealing was next in the steps. I got a cast iron dutch oven and put it on a turkey fryer and it took me just about 1/2 hour till it reached 950deg according to my thermometer. Of course I let them cool for awhile and expanded the case as per instructions.

On mine I chose to BOND the cores after I tried a few without bonding them. I simply took a Q-Tip and rubbed it in some soldering flux and wiped it in the case.

Next step was to cast out some pure lead slugs with my 158gr mold and away I went. After that I simply put the pure lead 158gr boolits in the fluxed case and put them back in the dutch oven and melted the cores which only took me 12 minutes to do, and I did just over 250 pieces on that batch.

Next step was to make sure you put the lube on the case and that's in the directions as well as how much which BT provides you with enough for at least 500 pieces. I ran out of mine in no time so I made another batch, and that was real simple to do.

Then it's off to the press to seat the core. Since I melted mine in the case this step is really simple. It's #2 in the picture above, that's what it looks like when your done.

Next step was to concave the top of the bullet which is #3 in the photo above. Another real simple operation.

Next is notching the case/jacket, Very simple and that's #4 in the photo above. Just don't get in a hurry to play with your new toys and forget to insert the BB like someone else I know.[smilie=1:

And last but not least the final forming of the bullet. Here's some of what I got done with mine.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a5ef8a64d.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a5efcc8d4.jpg

The 2 above were from brass trimmed to .700 and the hollow point punch was used first then I used the punch you use when using the BB. I don't recall the specific name for it but you get the point.

[GRUMPA]

The ones below are using the hollow point tool only.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a64d78057.jpg



The one below is using the punch for seating the BB.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a5ef487b6.jpg


All the above finished again were from trimmed brass to .700 and a 158gr pure lead core.

Here is a picture of the 1 step finished product with it installed in the case and 1 without.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a64db9b11.jpg



Being somewhat longer than the trimmed brass I reserve them for 45LC right now. I've only made a few right now and am holding off till Christmas to see if Santa Claus is going to bring that canalure tool I want.

The 1 below is a trimmed 40 to .700 only this time I have a 125gr lead core and put in the BB.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a64e0871e.jpg


Bt provided me with a means to expand my abilities which I truly admire. With something like this I can experiment to my hearts content with whatever I can dream up. The ability to create something like this from things that can almost be picked up from the ground is to me mind boggling.

I have only shot around 100 of these and they shoot just as good as what I buy in the local big stores. I have no complaints at all and probably when I get time this winter to really knuckle down and try different things I'll see about getting to my full potential.

When I got the dies this is what they look like.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a71a46217.jpg


Like I said this is my first time writing a review so if I missed something don't be shy on asking, I'll just add on to this thread. One thing is as soon as I can get the coin together I'll be getting the 9mm to 40cal die set from him without hesitation.

Hope this helps out the new guys.
For you new guys at swaging, this is really simple to do. It just takes an effort on your part, but with care of your dies and always keeping the cases lubed they should last you a lifetime.

[frank martinez]

Great job and thank you. Us new guys really need this type of review with photos to understand what the process looks like. I had no idea a dutch oven would work so well.
Frank

[SSGOldfart]

thanks I'm already in line for a 9mm to 40cal set,should be ready by x-mas.very good info on the dutch oven:Fire:[smilie=1:

:drinks::drinks:

[GRUMPA]

OK that's 2 comments on the Dutch Oven. Just so we are on the same page this one has a lid. I drilled a hole thru the lid just big enough so my thermometer that I use for casting, fits in with the dial part of it resting of the handle for the lid..... getting pictures uploaded now
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1c5525764b.jpg

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1c552a311d.jpg

[khamill2000]

What are the final bullet weights?

[GRUMPA]

Weights OK,
The ones with just the hollow point punch are 228gr.
The ones with the hollow point and the BB punch are 228gr.
The ones with just the punch for the BB insert are 228gr.
The ones with the BB inserted for the 45LC are 240gr.
The ones with the BB inserted that I made with a 125gr core are 198gr.

[khamill2000]

Are the 228's using the 125 gr core or the 158 gr core?

[GRUMPA]

Using the 158gr core, I only used the 125gr core on the 45 ACP bullet with the BB inserted.
And the one for the 45LC is in fact with a 158gr core. Sometimes when doing this it is a standard for me to weigh them each and make any adjustments with lead shot.

I'm editing this for the sake of clarifying: When I drop the 158gr lead core in the case and I weigh it, because of what I did for a living (precision grinder) I'm very fussy about things, trust me on that just ask the other half. They are sometimes off weight by as much as 3gr strictly because of case weight. So the picky SOB that I am would rather spend the few seconds to get it as close to perfect as possible.

[BT Sniper]

Looks great GRUMPA! I like the look of the bowl (concaved?) BB punched lead nose that was first a HP. That looks like it has some potential. Heck they all look good. How does a bullet formed with same BB nose punch look when you forgo the BB in the large cavity? I never got around to trying that out. Basicly all 5 steps minus dropping a BB in the nose. Might make an interesting looking/performing HP!

I'm placing an order with CH this week. The cannalure tool is $66 + $10 shipping after discount if I remember correctly. That is if santa is coming early this year to you. That 45LC should be awesome with these bullets!

You should eleborate just how remote you are out there in AZ. Hopefully you can make less trips to the big gun stores now for bullets. :)

Nice work! Good Shooting and Swage On!

BT

p.s. love the look of the new trimmer!

[frank martinez]

A pm is on the way BT. Hopefully before you place your order.
Frank

[jameslovesjammie]

Gonna have to start saving my pennies! This looks awesome!

[GRUMPA]

You should eleborate just how remote you are out there in AZ. Hopefully you can make less trips to the big gun stores now for bullets. :)
BT


For the curious about how remote I am just click on my name and go in my "Home" folder. And BT I actually bought a couple of boxes of factory "Cartridges" for testing with what I made. Been casting for over 20yrs and never actually bought bullets (Except performance stuff) for myself. Those 2 boxes of factory cost me just under $50.
And the nearest Wally World (cheapest) is a 90mi round trip for me.

[cgtreml]

Great review. I'm sold and already feeling like a kid before Christmas. One question. How do they feed in a stock 1911. Anyone shoot these beauty's yet. Let me know.

[GRUMPA]

With the 100 or so I've shot thru both my 1911's they cycle and function as good as anything else. Nothing to note or point out, just load and shoot. When I get mine all done I run them thru a .451 LEE sizer (I'm Fussy) and tumble them 1 last time to remove the lube then let dry. It's simpler than one could imagine.....GRUMPA

[khamill2000]

Couple more questions:
1. Are the "BB's" that you used Airsoft BB's?
2. You said you used a 125gr core and a 158gr core. I'm assuming that these are 356-358 diameter. Did you attempt to just swage the core in without melting (bonding) on any of them and if so, how did it work?

[GRUMPA]

YES!!!!!! The BB's in question are the Airsoft type, 8mm to be exact. They come in a couple of different colors, white and blue I believe.

Both 158gr and the 125gr are the .358 dia. type.

The term "BONDING" I believe refers to the core being adhered to the jacket so when it expands the lead peels back with the jacket, no separation.

I did not BOND one batch and your not going to notice anything different thru any of the procedures at all, till you use them. When I did water jug testing I had the core separate from the jacket, which is a no-no to me.

I remelted the lead out of that batch and have always bonded the cores since. The last time I shot at water jugs the core expanded and stuck to the jacket, which is what I wanted.

Living as remote as I do I for right now can't accumulate enough newsprint for expansion, penetration testing just yet.

[scrapcan]

Grumpa Thanks for the info.

I have been gathering cash to buy 9mm to 40 and 40 to 45. picking up pennies in the parking lot and washer/dryer is taking far too much time in my opinion, as such I need to get off my duff and get the cash gathered up. And too boot I am not sure if my wife believes I am trying to be helpful with doing laundry!

[dfreeman]

Grumpa - These are great photos and descriptions!

BT - Where can I purchase the cannelure tool that you mentioned above for $66+?

[alfloyd]

"Where can I purchase the cannelure tool that you mentioned above for $66+?"

ch4d.com

Part # Description Price

12000 Solid Steel Cannelure Tool $67.16

Thought that I would help Brian out by answering this question.
I bought one and it works great for me.

Lafaun

[hardcase54]

Go here. Look under bullets

http://www.ch4d.com/

[Rick459]

GRUMPA,
i see someone other than my self has a trimmer head made by Fred Bertelsman. mine has been sitting around for years. now i know what to do with it. just have to make a pilot for the .40 s&w case. thanks for the idea.
Rick

[GRUMPA]

Rick459,
If your going to make a pilot for the 40's for swaging, keep in mind the shorter the brass the more prone to hitting the internal webbing. I had to shorten mine at least .020 and put on a large chamfer to clear the webbing. And Fred does a remarkable job, very professional.

[scrapcan]

right their folks is why I like this forum. Grumpa just saved Rick459 a bunch of hassle by sharing a little tip.

Well done guys.

[cobrarolex]

Just curious about using this swage bullet for the 45 Long Colt.
Reading the specs. of the 45 LC bullet thru WIKIPEDIA, it says:

Lead bullet --.454"

Jacketed-----.452"

My swage bullet is .451 if this OK to use then good news for me..

Pls! confirm.

Thanks.

[ReloaderFred]

Wikipedia is wrong, or at least out of date. The .45 Colt was changed from .454" right after World War II. Prior to that, they were bored .454", but that hasn't been the case in over 60 years.

I size my lead bullets for the .45 Colt .452". Your swaged bullet at .451" won't cause any problems, unless it's for an older barrel. If that's the case, they just won't be real accurate. You'll know how it works when you shoot some through your firearm............

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

WIKIPEDIA is quick access to cartridge info but not always accurate. I have found a few errors in their info as well. Better off checking more then one source and possibly a credited one along the lines of published reloading manuals. As far as the .451 in the 45LC...... only one way to find out :). Keep it safe and good shooting.

Swage On!

BT

[cobrarolex]

Did you trim your case for 45LC?
240 Grain is an ideal weight for 45 LC
I have a lead bullet (Factory bullet) with RNFP Weighing 250 GRN.

What's the final lenght of the bullet after swaging?

Thanks for sharing..

cobrarolex

[cobrarolex]

Thanks for the info: ReloaderFred

Now I can go ahead and reload some 45LC.

cobrarolex

[cobrarolex]

Thank's Brian..

I'll look into that..

cobrarolex

[GRUMPA]

Did you trim your case for 45LC?
240 Grain is an ideal weight for 45 LC
I have a lead bullet (Factory bullet) with RNFP Weighing 250 GRN.

What's the final lenght of the bullet after swaging?

Thanks for sharing..

cobrarolex

I did not trim the 40cal case for the 45LC boolit. And the final length of the 45LC boolit is .770.

Just remember to weigh them together (8mm BB, lead core, brass) and adjust with lead shot accordingly and swage. After that it's swaging time. And when I get my canalure tool from Santa I can whip out a batch of those and have some fun.

[zuke]

So you can now take a 40 cal fired brass and turn it into a 45 cal projectile in just one die?

[GRUMPA]

Not just 1 die, it's actually 3 total.

[zuke]

PM answered

[MIBULLETS]

On the 45 Colt bullets, I thought that they were most accurate if the bullet was sized to correctly fit the cylinder throat. The throats can be .454 or more. Sized like this, there is a much better gas seal and it helps to keep the bullet straight so that it enters the barrel straight.

The smaller bullets will shoot fine, but you may not get as good of accuracy as your gun could produce.

[GRUMPA]

On the 45 Colt bullets, I thought that they were most accurate if the bullet was sized to correctly fit the cylinder throat. The throats can be .454 or more. Sized like this, there is a much better gas seal and it helps to keep the bullet straight so that it enters the barrel straight.

The smaller bullets will shoot fine, but you may not get as good of accuracy as your gun could produce.

Your right about that, but as far as J-words I would tend to think the pressures would be on the high side.

[Rick459]

Rick459,
If your going to make a pilot for the 40's for swaging, keep in mind the shorter the brass the more prone to hitting the internal webbing. I had to shorten mine at least .020 and put on a large chamfer to clear the webbing. And Fred does a remarkable job, very professional.

GRUMPA,
thanks for the tip.
Rick

[GRUMPA]

My pleasure Rick, that's what this site is all about...

[cobrarolex]

Grumpa,

Thank's for the info:

I now can make some 45LC bullet But no .BB's since I don't have the concave punch yet.

cobrarolex

Perfection is not an accident...

[GRUMPA]

Your welcome just glad to help folks along the best I can.

[DukeInFlorida]

BT Sniper is a CH4D dealer, and as such gets a discount, which he passes along to CB members.

So, send him a PM (he's almost caught up on answering his PM's), and tell him of your wishes, and I'm sure he'll be happy to help you out with the discounted price. Best if you do it when he can combine your purchase with others.


Grumpa - These are great photos and descriptions!

BT - Where can I purchase the cannelure tool that you mentioned above for $66+?

[GRUMPA]

Just gonna do this one time for the ones that missed it.

[GRUMPA]

Another bump. yeah I know.

[khamill2000]

Bump for all of us that got our dies this week, and request for sticky since it's more of a tutorial

[BT Sniper]

Here is some step by step pics I put together for Grumpa's set. The only difference between his and the last 6 sets I sent out is he got the Airsoft BB tip option and you guys got the "Nosler" style HP.

Here is a copy of a post that I posted in my BTSniper sticky.

Good shooting

I'm working on some simple to understand pics in the formation of 45 cal bullets from 40 S&W brass. I'll elaborate a bit more latter but here is a few pics for now.

BT

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060584-1.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060591.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060585.jpg
Step 1 Expand the fully annealed 40S&W brass to a diameter of about .445. I offer expanding mandrels for use in my universal die for this task.
Step 2 Seat a 158 grain .358 cast boolit core using the flat internial punch in the core seat die and the .425 base punch.





http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060586.jpg
Step 3 Switch the flat internial punch of the core seat die to the cone shape and switch the base punch from the .425 to the .445. Then take the seated core from step 2 and run back into the core seat die to displace the lead core to form a cone.





http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060588.jpg
Step 4 Drop an 8mm Airsoft BB and procede to notch the top of the jacket.





http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060587-1.jpg
Step 5 Form bullet in swage die.





http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050967-1.jpg
Cross section shows construction. The BB will 100% fill the HP cavity. The slight void you see was only caused from me melting the BB slightly in the cutting process of sectioning the bullet in half.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050973.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060595-1.jpg

To form a more traditional JHP 230 grain .451 bullet use same process, just skip the cone shape punch and use of BB

1. Start with 40 S&W case trimed to .730
2. expand trimmed case to .445
3. Seat core using flat internial punch and .425 base punch
4. notch jacket
5. form bullet using HP punch in the Swage die


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050981.jpg

[BT Sniper]

here are some related 45 cal threads I found

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=124818

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=124719

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=95750

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=101215

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91441

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=92852

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=78899

These are just all the threads I could find that I started. I'm sure there are others that started 45 cal threads as well. Please feel free to post links or coments.

Good shooting and Swage On!

Brian

[runfiverun]

it goes without sayin but i am gonna say it any way's.

the 45 set can be used to make a 240-250 gr 45 colt/454 casull bullet also.
just by using a 175-180 gr core and not trimming the case.
i would also advise an annealing step either before or after the expanding mandrel or maybe even both.

[GRUMPA]

I was going to mention the annealing of the brass to BT earlier but figured he was more than likely short on time, not to mention I have that in Post #1. But annealing is a rather important step.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Yes yes yes!!! I knew the tons of 40cal cases I have could be put to use, and here I was afraid I would have to buy an auto loader in 40s&w.

[runfiverun]

you could just send it to me.....
:lol:
no seriously.

[DukeInFlorida]

I finally got around to mounting my Harbor Freight cut off saw for trimming the .40 brass.

I took the rotary cutter assembly off the RCBS Pro Trim (easy to do, one hex head screw. Easy to put back on when I need to. It wasn't really in the way, but I decided that I wanted to run my setup a bit different than BT Sniper does.

I mounted the trimmer to a piece of 1" particle board from an old shelf.

I then mounted the saw to a piece of 2X4, and mounted that in turn to another piece of 2X4.

It took some tweaking to get the cut length right, and I may have to play with it a bit once I get to actually running production (soon). Just wanted you guys to see how I did the trimming:

[BT Sniper]

Looks good! Simple! Just what I do. Use a bit of boolit lube or swage lube on the blade every once in a while and it will make short work of your trimming.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Update....

I was seeing some "Glock" type bulges on some of the raw .40 brass. I was seeing that it was affecting the resultant length after forming the bullets.

As a test, I ran some brass through a Lee .40 sizing die, with the knockout pin removed. That removed the bulge, and the slight work hardening of the brass seemed to assist in the cutting operation. I get cleaner cuts (less burr) and the small stub at the end of the cut was a lot less.

The cut length reported in several places seems to vary. The BT instructions suggest .725. Here in the forum, I am seeing .700, .735, .730...
What are people cutting them to?

I'm at .725 right now.

[BT Sniper]

.725 will be just fine.

I'll taylor your point form die to accomidate your exact length with perfect results.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Well, as you know, I am striving for the perfect side by side clone of a Hornady XTP, which I sent you a sample of. I don't know yet what length that requires. It may require some tweaking. I'm working on prepping some jackets and stuffing some cores inside, but don't want to get too far ahead without a point form die on hand.

[BT Sniper]

I'll have the first new BTSniper 45 cal point form die machined probably first of next week. I have the reamer allready. It will have the smaller .250 meplat and should allow for better feeding in the semi autos.

I'll be able to alter the size of the HP to allow the perfect formation with your .725 jacket length. I'll let you know as soon as I can.


p.s. I too "used" to try to clone the Hornday xtps, before long you will compare the commercial bullets to our home swaged rather then the other way around :) ie. WOW! those Hornady XTPs allmost look as good as my (your) BTSniper swaged bullets :)

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Don't forget... I also want to hit the weight of the XTP.

And, yes..... I already say that (The Hornady's look almost as good as my BT Sniper bullets) about my 40's, 44's and 224's

And, hope to also be able to say the same about my 500's.

[GRUMPA]

GUYS!!!! We need to make this Thread into a sticky, how do we go about it?

[DukeInFlorida]

We can just beg one pf the friendly mos we know. I'll take care of it with Andy.


GUYS!!!! We need to make this Thread into a sticky, how do we go about it?

[zuke]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060584-1.jpg

How do I go about getting a set to make these?

[BT Sniper]

Send me a PM. I'll have more to add to this thread soon. I allready got my new reamer for a better 45 cal bullet with a smaller .250 meplat that should funtion better in semi auto pistols.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

This thread is a sticky. Thanks, Ajax

[pacomdiver]

how much for the set?

[DukeInFlorida]

Prices are in post #1:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?117577-BTSniper-Custom-Tools-and-Dies


how much for the set?

[BT Sniper]

$495 for my custom BTSniper 45 cal 2 die set.
$75 for universal die with expanding mandrel to prep 40 S&W brass for 45 cal jackets.
$20 S&H

That's it. All you need to make perfect 45 cl bullets from scrap 40 S&W cases. If you want to get fancy add my BTX notch die for $150 and you will be able to make perfect XTP bullets.

Two more days on my %10 sale offer for all purchases made by end of year so besure to subtract %10 from all figures mentioned if your interested.

My bullet pictured on left. These are the dies I have avialble.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/New45calbulletonleft.jpg

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[greenhornet-1]

Have you ever thought about doing a series of videos on youtube showing the process of making bullets??

[DukeInFlorida]

Time is the issue.

I have some time on my hands, dealing with this damned cancer.

If I can figure a way to handle the camera and swage at the same time, maybe I'll try making the videos.

Brian has done more than a few already.

[greenhornet-1]

Sorry to here about you being sick. You worry about getting well before you even think about making a vidio. Prayers sent!!!

[BT Sniper]

We wish Duke all the best, as for me? I just got a cold :)

yes a video would be good, I have done a few and have them posted all over this site. If you guys can view my photo bucket account I have them all there and when one finishes the next video option will present it's self.

See if this link will take you guys to my photo bucket account there is 17 videos posted there



http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/?mediafilter=videos


Brian

[ProfGAB101]

Maybe its been answered elsewhere and I missed it... But do you make a version to use full length 40 cases and make heavier slugs in .458" or even use 10mm cases?

I can never find the projectiles I want for 458 SOCOM.

( Hmmm looks like my post history has been lost. )

[BT Sniper]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?183520-458


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154227-458-BTSniper-swage-die-in-the-works&highlight=



http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158955-BTSniper-458-SUCCESS-amp-ready-for-orders&highlight=


Check them out!

BT

[Lizard333]

After loading up some of these bullets for my Colt 45, I figured I would show the results you get when you core bond them. The initial bullets weighed in at 245 grains. These averaged out at 235 grains, a 96% weight retention. Well above my expectations. Bonding is well worth the time!

66575

[GRUMPA]

Lizard333, what method of core bonding did you use? And with the different flavors of speeds for some 45LC pistols how fast you figure these things were going to achieve that expansion?

Edit: Can we have a before picture? we already have the after.

[freebullet]

WOW That's insane. You guys are making some impressive projectiles over here. Maybe I should stop trading/selling off all the 40 cases I get from the range. Find almost as much 40 as 9 anymore.

[Lizard333]

Don't know the speed. I loaded these with WLP primers and 7 grains of Win 231. Heres what they looked like before:

66603

Someone with the load data sheets on the computer may be be able to calculate the velocity. These were shot out of a Taurus Judge. My best guess would be around 750 fps.

[freebullet]

I have some 40 brass that I have no use for, and find more often. Any of you want to swap, shoot me a pm. I could send you 150pcs 40 brass & a pound of soft lead for some bullets maybe 30?. I'd really like to shoot a deer next fall with that fanged lookin bullet.

[MrWolf]

Could my Dillon 550b handle the dies and pressure to do this or would I need a single stage press such as the RC I have seen mentioned in a lot of other posts? Very new to this but I am trying to put together a list of what equipment I would need for the 40 to 45 (and also 22lr to 223 but that goes in a different thread). I think it is incredible what you folks have done. Thanks

[GRUMPA]

I don't do the 223 swaging, I do the 9mm to 40cal and 40cal to 45cal all on my RCBS RCII press. Not saying that it's better or anything but that's just what I have without going broke buying something else.

[DukeInFlorida]

You'll want a RockChucker type press.

The Dillon 550b would take too much punishment, and you'd certainly break something.

The RockChucker will take everything that you can throw at it, and more. I see deals on used ones in eBay from time to time. You just have to be patient.


Could my Dillon 550b handle the dies and pressure to do this or would I need a single stage press such as the RC I have seen mentioned in a lot of other posts? Very new to this but I am trying to put together a list of what equipment I would need for the 40 to 45 (and also 22lr to 223 but that goes in a different thread). I think it is incredible what you folks have done. Thanks

[MrWolf]

Thanks for the info. I don't plan on doing anything until the end of the year but I am having the wife keep her eye out while she is at garage sales and flea markets for some of the things I will need [smilie=1:

[Twmaster]

When you swage these does the rim of these 40 cal cases expand out to .451 or does it stay close to it's original size?

[mold maker]

It depends on how well you aneal, and how much pressure you apply. With a lot of pressure on soft brass, the extractor groove will almost disappear.

[leeggen]

Well now I am just confused! Just got started casting and now Grampa has got me wired up about swaging. Read abunch on the sight sticky from BT swaging. Those a just beautiful pics Grampa and good explaining too.
Thanks, really got me interested in this now. Must save money.
CD

[GRUMPA]

I have to laugh at that, it's GRUMPA by the way and not Grampa. This whole thing started because I knew there would be a day (kinda like now) that things are going to be hard to find let alone get and you could only get them if you yourself was the one that made it happen.

I like it for the simple reason that all one has to do is bend over and pick the stuff off the ground and with work make what you see in this thread.

[customcutter]

The one step die part we'll come back to later as I chose to take a different approach.

Are these dies intended to be a "one step" die?

[GRUMPA]

YES!!!! By all means they are intended for the 1 step swaging die.

[customcutter]

YES!!!! By all means they are intended for the 1 step swaging die.

Then I guess I'm confused. The last pic in post #2 shows 3 dies with 5 different rods???

[Lizard333]

One die. Multiple steps. The one step is slightly deceiving. Ok, really deceiving. These are a lot of work but they are worth it.

[customcutter]

One die. Multiple steps. The one step is slightly deceiving. Ok, really deceiving. These are a lot of work but they are worth it.

I was thinking they were like BT's video of dropping an upside down 9mm into a 9mm case and swaging it to a .40 hollow point all in one pull of the handle.

thanks,
CC

[Lizard333]

Yes. But they piece of brass has few steps before that LAST step. Expand the piece of 9mm brass to except a cast lead core. Ok. Cast that core. Step 3. Seat the core. Step 4 notch the case. Step 5, place ready piece of brass in BT's "one" step die. So ya, a one (5), step die.

[customcutter]

OK, if you cast a core slightly smaller than 9mm, simply install in the 9mm brass (anealled). The core is seated at the same time the jacket is formed. So 1 step, vs swaging a core, belling the mouth, seating a core, forming the point. Is the hollow point formed during the swaging process or when the boolit is ejected from the die?

thanks,
CC

[Cane_man]

the hollow point notches are scored after swaging the cores (it is an extra step), it is the step right before point forming... the hp notching die can be easily made at home with a triangular file if you want to redneck it or a 60 degree mill cutting tool if you have the tooling... the hp notching is not a mandatory step if all you are doing is punching holes in paper to practice...

[GRUMPA]

Figure I would add these pictures of what these can do after you use them.

88889

88890

88891

88892

88893

88895

[HiVelocity]

I'll see about getting to my full potential.

What? You mean there's more to come? Woohoo!

HV

[Lizard333]

Ok, using these dies, I decided my previous way of making these bullets using only a 2 cavity mold was a pain in the rear. I wanted to see if I could get similar bullets, around 200 gns, with the Lee 6 cavity, 9mm 125 gn mould. Turns out, by just changing the length of the bullet I was able to get the desired bullet, about 205 gns.

First I had to determine the length of the 40S&W to use with the 125 gn core out of the lee. I found that by cutting the 40 down to .720 inches, I got the desired fill I was looking for. After that, everything else is the same that Grumpa does in the original post. I bond the cores and anneal the brass at the same time. Today, I did it with a torch, so when I tumbled my brass, you get the copper wash you see in the finished bullets. BTW, brass and lead will bond to each other without the use of a flux, so I don't use any. No point in risking damaging the dies.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/avaqajed.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/u7ubemut.jpg

These puppies weigh in at 205-207, which is more than adequate for my needs. Very cool!!

[Bonz]

Ok, using these dies, I decided my previous way of making these bullets using only a 2 cavity mold was a pain in the rear. I wanted to see if I could get similar bullets, around 200 gns, with the Lee 6 cavity, 9mm 125 gn mould. Turns out, by just changing the length of the bullet I was able to get the desired bullet, about 205 gns.

First I had to determine the length of the 40S&W to use with the 125 gn core out of the lee. I found that by cutting the 40 down to .720 inches, I got the desired fill I was looking for. After that, everything else is the same that Grumpa does in the original post. I bond the cores and anneal the brass at the same time. Today, I did it with a torch, so when I tumbled my brass, you get the copper wash you see in the finished bullets. BTW, brass and lead will bond to each other without the use of a flux, so I don't use any. No point in risking damaging the dies.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/avaqajed.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/u7ubemut.jpg

These puppies weigh in at 205-207, which is more than adequate for my needs. Very cool!!

Thanks for sharing ! I can't wait to get my .500 dies ...

[GRUMPA]

Here's a couple more pictures of what I got done with today. These weigh in at 258gr and they look better than store bought. Only reason these are heavier than what I normally do these are intended for a 45LC.

97567

97568

[BT Sniper]

Great looking bullets guys!

Swage on!

BT

[Fetzner808]

Grumpa and Lizard those just look amazing. Can't wait to get myself a set of these.

Lizard, what do they look like if you don't trim the brass? I thought I remember seeing BT post a photo of the brass curled around into the HP cavity? Can't seem to locate it now.

Keep up the good work guys!

[Outer Rondacker]

If you find the video please post a link. I have been looking for BT's video for some time now. I want to look into making 9s into 40 for 10mm.

[Outer Rondacker]

Guys this look great. I would love to try a few before I pick up a set of dies. I am looking for a cheaper way to shoot my gap in 45.

Grumpa my walmart is around the same distance. I feel your pain. There is no Ill just run out and grab. You make the trip twice a month and make your list and check it twice. LOL

[Lizard333]

Grumpa and Lizard those just look amazing. Can't wait to get myself a set of these.

Lizard, what do they look like if you don't trim the brass? I thought I remember seeing BT post a photo of the brass curled around into the HP cavity? Can't seem to locate it now.

Keep up the good work guys!

If I'm not mistakin the bullets above by Grumpa are done without trimming. Better suited for a colt because of the length.

[GRUMPA]

Lizard333 is right, the ones I make for 45 Long Colt I don't trim the cases on.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97568&d=1393184574

The ones I make for the 45 ACP I trim down depending on the final weight I'm after.

99493

Here's the completed boolit.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88895&d=1385674213

[Fetzner808]

Thanks for the reply guys. Pretty amazing what you can do with these swage dies. Can't wait to get a set.

[just bill]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060584-1.jpg

This is the picture that shows the steps, where I'm loosing it is in #3. Grumpa and I have exchanged emails from the first part of this post, but Im still in the weeds about #3. Where did this punch come from and what die us holding it. GRUMPA said it helps in expanding the brass during his process, however where does the punch and die appear?

Confused,
Bill

[GRUMPA]

This might help. The ROD goes into the die in the middle of this picture.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a71a46217.jpg

Simply unscrew the top part and insert the punch from the top, then screw back in the top part and screw the die assembly on the press and adjust the height.

EDIT: That 1 die in the middle has more than 1 function and that may confuse folks that don't have the die set right in front of them. That die is also used to core seat, and that uses the rod second from the end on the right. It's up to the user to use which ever punch they want.

[just bill]

This might help. The ROD goes into the die in the middle of this picture.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/162764eb1a71a46217.jpg

Simply unscrew the top part and insert the punch from the top, then screw back in the top part and screw the die assembly on the press and adjust the height.

EDIT: That 1 die in the middle has more than 1 function and that may confuse folks that don't have the die set right in front of them. That die is also used to core seat, and that uses the rod second from the end on the right. It's up to the user to use which ever punch they want.
Thanks, that has cleared the punch, 45 acp is my next project. I'm not really convinced the BB is necessary for putting the fear in the heart of paper.
Bill

[GRUMPA]

Yeah I know what you mean, I never seen the look on a piece of paper either when a bullet goes through it, but I bet it isn't a pretty picture either. I just do it out of habit, why do something without going all out. And as you can tell I go all out to get the best I can do..

[newcastter]

So what is the diameter of the core needed to make these? I want to make my own core mold because sometimes I use RCE jackets and if I use a upside down bullet there is not enough lead at the bottom and it results in pressure rings near the base but I am not sure of what diameter I should make the cavity.
I figure I could still use the same cores in spent .40 brass too.

[GRUMPA]

Keep in mind I bond them to the jacket and I use a .358 core mould. So basically the cores I use get melted in the case the same time I anneal.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Basically, you want the core to fit in the jacket. I like my core to go all the way down to the bottom of the jacket, whether it is brass cases or commercial jackets. If it goes all the way down you know it will seat well and there should be no voids. The core mold I use drops cores at .335". These fit well in 40 cases and commercial jackets. Here is a picture of some cores I had cast from the adjustable core mold. You can see how they fit in the jackets.

131501

[Aimstraight]

Im just curious on what they cost and how long it took you to receive them? I bought a set of the 22lr dies to .224 bullets and took about 14 months or so to receive them. back log sucked but his customer service is awesome. Ive got an over abundance of 40sw cases and haven't figured if I should cast and coat bullets for them or to turn them into bullets them selves.

[GRUMPA]

Im just curious on what they cost and how long it took you to receive them? I bought a set of the 22lr dies to .224 bullets and took about 14 months or so to receive them. back log sucked but his customer service is awesome. Ive got an over abundance of 40sw cases and haven't figured if I should cast and coat bullets for them or to turn them into bullets them selves.

As far as cost.....just get into the VS section of the site and go look. And depending on how busy he is determines what the wait time is, no two ways around that. And if I were you....I would figure which I would get the most use out of......the 45cal.......or the 40cal.

[DukeInFlorida]

Or, as I and many others have done..... Just buy ALL of the tool sets.:swagemine:

[bigmaico]

Any of you guy's still doing this? I have a Corbin silver press & a 3 die set for 45 Acp, thinking of trying this with my dies.

Just might have a few questions along the way. I need to try to anneal some 40 cal case & try to remember how to use the Corbin press. It's been 20 years since I used it!

[rcslotcar]

I'm new to this also. I have BTsnipers 9mm to 40 set with the btx crimp. I have on order his .22 to 224 dies and have his .22 pneumatic derim press. The 9mm to 40 set is a dream come true as after the initial costs, bullets from scrounged components are about 1 cent a piece maybe even less. My cousin and I both shoot 40 so the savings will be huge. Please keep this going as I know you guys are really helping out us new guys. Thanks

[BT Sniper]

Found some 45 cal pics to add.....

https://i.imgur.com/VvnqFnxl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4pkoHoal.jpg

[BT Sniper]

https://i.imgur.com/482KDpil.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0ABmxLml.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ouzb50Tl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/KgFWnBVl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/HTLunzcl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/O6G6HMVl.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/0POmYlzl.jpg

[squidtamer]

Thanks to everyone for this amazing post. This kind of thing (and the giant pile of buckets of brass) are what drove me to decide to start casting.:awesome: