Loading cast rifle boolits

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm moving into using cast boolits for most of my milsurps and a thought occured, which generated a question. Scarey, eh?

Typically, does the casemouth need to be expanding when loading cast rifle boolits and if so, is the Lee Universal expander a good device to use for this purpose?

Calibers are typical milsurp calibers.

Thanks,

Dave

[rmb721]

I use a Lee Universal expander for 30/30. I like it better than the Lyman M die. I think it is a must to expand the neck to keep from shaving lead off the bullet.

[357maximum]

I use a Lee Universal expander for 30/30. I like it better than the Lyman M die. I think it is a must to expand the neck to keep from shaving lead off the bullet.

what he said...the lee universal expander has been a Godsend, all my M type -dies have been outsourced...

[Rod B]

what he said...the lee universal expander has been a Godsend, all my M type -dies have been outsourced...

Another reloader who is very pleased with the Lee expander die.:mrgreen:

[NVcurmudgeon]

Dave, it is best to expand only enough to seat the boolit without shaving lead. I slowly increase the amount of expansion until half, or a little more, of the GC can be hand seated, then lock the die. (For plain base boolits, expand only enough to get the bottom band well started.) That way the brass is not being overworked.

[BruceB]

Until just a few months ago, the VAST majority of my rifle cases were mouth-flared with (no kidding) an old RCBS .30 Carbine expander die. It was small enough for .270s and 6.5s, and large enough for the .50 Sharps!!!

The only trouble, a minor one, was that flaring had to be done by 'feel' in some cartridges, since the die is too short to allow a long case to travel to the upper limit of the ram's travel. Doing it by feel is not difficult, by the way.

Anyway, I got the Lee Universal die, and it works well EXCEPT it won't accept the .416 Rigby....I still use the .30 Carbine die for that, and yes, "do it by feel"!

When seating cast bullets in bottle-necked rifle cases, I set the seating stem as low in the die as I can get it, while still allowing the neck of the case to BARELY enter the die's neck area. By doing this, I avoid removing the case-mouth flare until the case's last bit of upward travel, and hence also avoid the possibility of much bullet-scraping damage caused by the mouth being reduced to its normal shape too soon. I believe the bullet is guided sufficiently-well by being supported and centered between the seating stem and the flared mouth. I flare enough that the gascheck is about halfway into the casemouth. Others disagree with this seating method, but it works fine for me and there doesn't seem to be any particular tendency toward eccentric seating.

Rifles with cast bullets offer such an infinity of possibilities that you will NEVER run out of things to try. Enjoy.

[454PB]

All commercial reloading dies are made to suit jacketed bullets. The expander button is sized to allow seating a jacketed bullet, so when you use a cast boolit, which is generally larger diameter, there can be problems that a simple flaring of the case mouth doesn't cure. If for instance you resize a 30/06 case, flare the mouth, and then try to seat a .310" cast boolit, that boolit can be damaged.

I made up some home made flaring/neck expanders that not only flare the mouth, but actually expand the neck for a larger diameter, and no damage to the boolit even if quite soft. Mine are used after case sizing, which works the brass an extra time. That has not been a problem, case life doesn't seem to be affected.

Ideally, a custom resizing die would be better. That way the case would not be sized down excessively, and all that would be required after that is a slight flaring of the mouth.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your answers. They have confirmed for me I made the right choice to purchase a Lee Classic Turret for the lower volume milsurp calibers. This way, I can move some of the money I spent on the progressive caliber conversion into other items, such as the Lee Universal expander and I do have the option of using a .30 carbine expander as well, since I own one that currently doesn't have a job.

Since most of my milsurps are bolt actions, my plan now is to put a Lee Collet die, an Lee universal expander, a powder die (for my Hornady LnL case activated powder drop) and a seating die in each of my 4-hole turrets. This way, I can quickly reprocess brass I've fired in a bolt action, with everything I need on the turret to load cast bullets.

In the cases where I need to do full length resizing (such as range pick up brass or once fired purchased online) I will use my new Lee Classic Cast single stage that's equipped with a LnL conversion kit.

For high volume cartridges, I'll continue to use my Hornady LnL.

Life is good when you're in America and have so many choices and opportunities at fun hobbies. God Bless America.

Thank you gentlemen,

Dave

[Nueces]

OK, fellas, a blind hog question here. Couldn't locate info on a 'universal expander' on the Lee website. Info appreciated, and all y'all are allowed one free shot about the ignorance/blindness. Extras cost one yankee buck, payable to Gunloads. :mrgreen:

Mark

[Maven]

Nueces, Lee Precision calls it a "Universal Case Expanding Die" (#90798, $12.98) and is so listed on their website>products.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Nueces,

The Lee Universal Case Expanding Die part number is 90798 and it's MSRP is $12.98, but you can find it for a whole lot less at Midway and other fine retailers.

Regards,

Dave

[arkypete]

Dave
I use a Lyman 'M' die for my 30-06 to expand the neck and flare the case mouth. How ever I polished the case expanding part, not the mouth flaring part, for a snug fit. Then I use a Redding Competition seating die to seat the bullet. And when I need to crimp the bullet I use a standard seating die with the seating stem removed.
Jim

[robertbank]

Until you get it, and I am waiting for mine to come, try using needle nose pliers to expand the case mouth. Works for me. I don't load a lot of rifle at one time so speed is not an issue. A couple of twists with the pliers and you are good to go.

Take Care

Bob

[Nueces]

Maven and Dave, thanks, research underway....

Mark

[KCSO]

The best investment I ever made was a small arbor press that came from an optomotrist. With the right acessories it seats gas checks and expands case mouths to exactly what you want from a straight bell to a M style. If Harbor freight had a like model cheap I would look for one. You would find a thousand uses for it.

[woody1]

Maven and Dave, thanks, research underway....

Mark

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1171586363.1993=/html/catalog/lubesize.html#CaseExpandingDie

[fiberoptik]

Another reloader who is very pleased with the Lee expander die.:mrgreen:

I'd be pleased with it too if Cabelas sold them! grr...:Fire: :Fire: :Fire:

[robertbank]

Hi Dave

I just got my order in fron Graf & Co. They sell the Lee Expander die for $9.95US. The die works great. I put a slight flare on my .303 cases which is just enough to prevent shaving of the boolit.

Until I got one I just used a pair of needle nose pliars. They worked just as well but the Lee die is just a little more consistent.

Take Care

Bob

[Bret4207]

FWIW- I highly endorse the Lee Collet dies for the mil surps and lever guns. They seem to be the bee's knee's for this type of loading where you don't always want the case pushed back to factory specs. They also work great on thin brass like the WCF series. Their Factory Crimp Die seems to work good too.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

How many folks use the factory crimp dies for their rifle cartridges? I'm not sure if I want to use those or not, especially in milsurp bolt actions.

Dave

[robertbank]

I like the Lee FCD for use with jacketed bullets. I don't crimp my cast boolits in my Longbranch and Huquavarna both of which are bolt actions. I do put a mild crimp on my 30-30 cast out of my Win 94. Not sure I have to but I do.

Take Care

Bob

[Rod B]

I use the factory crimp die on cast bullet rifle loads.

It is set so that it only gives enough crimp to hold the bullet firmly & remove the slight flare opening that the expander die imparts on the case mouth. Go slowly when setting this die as it easy to distort a cast bullet if you lean too hard on the press handle or have the die set to deeply.

Rod.:)

[DLCTEX]

FCD on all boolits, light crimp on rifle cast boolits, more on j words. DALE

[grumpy one]

I use the Lee FCD on cast 30-30 bullets if the nose is large enough to engrave in the bore, because if I don't I can't extract a chambered round without getting the action full of powder and having to knock out the bullet with a cleaning rod. Since my friendly range officer seems to make a special point of yelling "CEASE FIRE" while I have a round chambered, I do this because I'm stuck with it, not because I think it helps accuracy.

[wdm004]

Is the Lee "Universal Case Expanding Die" a powder-through die? I looked on Lee's web site and I can't tell. It would be perfect if I could set it up on the Classic Turret press under the powder measure.

thanx,
Dan

[robertbank]

No it consists of two stubs. One for large cases the other for small. The die only performs one function and that is to expand the case mouth.

Take Care

Bob

[Newtire]

How many folks use the factory crimp dies for their rifle cartridges? I'm not sure if I want to use those or not, especially in milsurp bolt actions.

Dave

Factory crimp die is great tool and maybe helps to give more uniform pressures? I use it all the time. To get uniform results, your cases have to be trimmed the same length or it hits one hard, the next one loose, like that...Used to be a "non-crimper" but think this is a good idea.

[LAH]

How many folks use the factory crimp dies for their rifle cartridges? I'm not sure if I want to use those or not, especially in milsurp bolt actions.

Dave

I use one for my 30-30 ammo. It works great.........Creeker

[rvpilot76]

Here is your answer. I emailed Lee about custom size mandrels a while ago when loading the Fatter 30 for my 303 British. Here is Lee's response:

Mr. Days,

Oversized mandrels are available for $10. If you are interested, send payment and let us know what diameter and what cartridge you want the mandrel for. Our address is:

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway "U"
Hartford, WI 53027

So for a measley $10, you can get a mandrel that will be cast boolit friendly. Problem solved.

Best regards,

Kevin :Fire:

[Maineboy]

I've been thinking about ordering one of those oversized mandrels, but I'm not sure how much much oversized I should get. I size boolits .311 for my Springfields, any thoughts?


Here is your answer. I emailed Lee about custom size mandrels a while ago when loading the Fatter 30 for my 303 British. Here is Lee's response:

Mr. Days,

Oversized mandrels are available for $10. If you are interested, send payment and let us know what diameter and what cartridge you want the mandrel for. Our address is:

Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway "U"
Hartford, WI 53027

So for a measley $10, you can get a mandrel that will be cast boolit friendly. Problem solved.

Best regards,

Kevin :Fire:

[rvpilot76]

Maineboy: I am going to order a collet mandrel of .315 diameter, and here's why. I will be seating a sized .316 boolit, and crimping with a Lee Factory Crimp die. The reason I'm going with a .315 mandrel is this: I don't want the boolit to have to expand brass to be seated; the boolits are soft enough without "sizing" them with the case for a second time. Like I said earlier, I won't need much neck tension, as I'll be using the Lee FCD. I'm thinking .001" grip or tension should be enough with a cast boolit, as long as it is crimped to keep it from coming out of the neck during recoil. I'll let you know how things turn out.
Kevin

[tarbe]

Anyway, I got the Lee Universal die, and it works well EXCEPT it won't accept the .416 Rigby....I still use the .30 Carbine die for that, and yes, "do it by feel"!



Old thread, I know!

I cast up my first .416 boolits today, to load in my new .416 Rigby.

Yes, I just learned my Lee Universal expander is not quite universal! That fat-body 416 won't fit into the die body...

I searched all my dies (30 sets?) to try to find a die body that I could use that was fat enough and long enough to work with the expander from the Lee outfit...to no avail.

So...I am dead in the water until I rig something up!

Ugh...really wanted to load up some boolits tonight. Hate to make my first range session J-words only! :(

Tim

[GhostHawk]

Well you can always do it the way I started. I started having no clue that lee made the universal flaring tool. So I was looking around my shop bench trying to find a way when my eye landed on a steel centerpunch.

It was fair sized, but had a nice taper right after the tip. Drop it into an empty brass, gave it a tap, voila, cast bullet loaded perfectly.

No press so repeatability was not terrific, and it did not take me long to get a Lee universal flaring tool which I use often.

The other option would be to see if I have a handgun powder through expander die close to the same size mouth. Different way of doing the same job. I really wish lee would ship them for rifle calibers also. Or maybe I just found the wrong set.

Neccessity is the mother of invention.

[.22-10-45]

Tarbe: RCBS sells an expander die for the .416 Rigby. My 3 die set for the .450/.400 3 1/4" came with just such an expander die..I was able to purchase additional expander plugs & polished one down for perfect cast-bullet fit for my Watson Farquharson. One thing these RCBS & Lyman M dies have over the Lee Universal is the parallel section for case mouth expanding. This brings case neck up to proper dia. for cast bullets full seating depth..instead of merely expanding/belling very small section at end of case mouth. If you happen to pull a cast bullet seated to full depth..base band will invariably be smaller dia. from being sized by undersized case neck at full bullet seat depth.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Old thread, I know!

I cast up my first .416 boolits today, to load in my new .416 Rigby.

Yes, I just learned my Lee Universal expander is not quite universal! That fat-body 416 won't fit into the die body...

I searched all my dies (30 sets?) to try to find a die body that I could use that was fat enough and long enough to work with the expander from the Lee outfit...to no avail.

So...I am dead in the water until I rig something up!

Ugh...really wanted to load up some boolits tonight. Hate to make my first range session J-words only! :(

Tim

Tim,

You resurrected and old thread of mine. Boy, so much reloading knowledge I've gained since then. I suggest you go to NOE bullet molds and check out their offerings of expander plugs for Lee products. I think you may find a insert for your Lee die that's perfect for the .416. Not available back in 2007, but available now thanks to the good members of this board, many of whom posted in this thread.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=88&sort=2a&page=2

Note: If they don't have what you want, contact the owner and ask him to help you develop one for that cartridge. Check out Lyman expander dies as well, they may have one for .416, though I doubt it.

[rbuck351]

What I did a few years back was buy a HF mini lathe and put it on one of my loading benches. I made my own M type die and make mandrels in what ever size I need. I tend to make the neck expander section about .001 under boolit size. That plus a bit of neck spring back is plenty of neck tension for what I'm doing. My M punches have enough neck belling to get a boolit base to just start in the neck. Then I don't crimp but just straighten out the bell.

[tarbe]

Thanks guys...I found an RCBS expander for the 416. It is on the way from MidwayUSA.

After 41 years and 34 different cartridges, there is always some new wrinkle to overcome!

I don't think my gun habit would be 1/10th the fun if I did not roll my own.