babbit troubles

[mainiac]

Mixed up another batch of babbit alloy,and got to much babbit in the mix.When this happens,i suffer bottom pour spout freeze up. Have to keep picking the hole in the spout,or it slows to a drip. This is about the 5 time ive done this. Would like to know just why the babbit causes the spout to freeze.Thanks,,,

Now i have to keep thinning this batch out,and i have another friggin mystery alloy,,,,never ends....

[btroj]

Some Babbit contains copper or other metals that don't always play nice at our casting temps. They like to precipitate out giving an oatmeal looking slag. I think it gives just enough higher a flow temp to cause spout freeze. I can get the same by adding too much monotype.

You can dilute tha babbit with some pure or you can increase the pot temp. I would dilute the mix because I think you are going to have some brittle bullets if the babbit content is that high.

I don't sweat the mystery alloy thing. As long as it casts well and shoots well I don't care too much what it is, unless I am using it for hunting. I like a softer hunting bullet.

[Defcon-One]

Yep, Copper. The real question is how much? Unfortunately, you have no way of knowing without expensive testing or a buddy with an XRF gun.

This is exactly why I like to work with items of known metal content (Linotype, Pure Lead, Solders and well marked Pewter) or nearly known alloys like COWW, SOWW (Usually pretty close to expected mix). I am not a fan of Babbit alloys! There are too many variations and unless it is marked well, you just don't know what you have and I just don't want or need the Copper.

Rember the old saying, "Garbage In, Garbage Out!" How about, "Unknown In, Unknown Out!"

You've gotta know what you are using in order to make the alloy that you want!


...This is about the 5th time i've done this...

You've gotta learn from your mistakes or you're doomed to repeat them!

I'd use the "mystery alloy" for fishing weights or decoy weights and then start over with all new, known metals!

[btroj]

Thisis where Defcon-one and I disagree. He wants to know what he has for an alloy. I only want to know that it works for my needs. The exact composition does not concern me at all- it is the casting and shooting properties that matter to me.

Different strokes for different folks.

[mainiac]

Thisis where Defcon-one and I disagree. He wants to know what he has for an alloy. I only want to know that it works for my needs. The exact composition does not concern me at all- it is the casting and shooting properties that matter to me.

Different strokes for different folks.

i agree,,i dont really care what i have,as long as it works. I have a good supply of babbit,so i use it.It makes very nice shiney boolits.Just sometimes,i get carried away being the mad scientest,,and the spout gives me grief.

[badgeredd]

i agree,,i dont really care what i have,as long as it works. I have a good supply of babbit,so i use it.It makes very nice shiney boolits.Just sometimes,i get carried away being the mad scientest,,and the spout gives me grief.

Do you know what the babbitt was used for before you got hold of it? I use some babbitt I inherited from my Dad that was from the old babbitt railroad bearings used in railroad rolling stock before the roller bearing of today. It is tin rich with antimony and about 3% copper with less than 1/2% lead. I've found it works really well with 4 ounces babbitt added to a 10 pound batch of 50/50 mix of WW/ pure lead. The copper seems to affect the alloy positively in these proportions. Added tin for improve molding and the copper toughens the alloy with out making it brittle when water dropped.

Edd

[GLL]

I disagree with those who have disagreed ! :)

When I make an alloy that works well I want to be able make it again . In this case the babbit is of unknown composition and the resultant alloy is a mystery metal even though that one batch may work just fine ! The problem is especially bad if you have just made 100 pounds of this alloy that "does not work" and you have no way to know how to fix it.

Jerry

[btroj]

I don't usually make alloy in large amounts. I have ingots of range scrap, ingots of pure, and some monotype.
Each batch is a new alloy, made in the casting pot. I know, I know, how to get the exact same bullet weight, etc each time. I don't know, I don't care. They shoot fine, seem to go the same place pot after pot so I don't sweat it.
I am not making dinner or brewing beer. These are going to be fired froma gun and the gun doesn't seem to care. Targets don't either.
Wy make it so darn hard? It need not be.

[GLL]

btroj:

I agree with you when using known materials such as pure lead, monotype, linotype, pure tin, eutectic solder, wheel weights, and even range scrap ! I often throw those in the pot simply by weight. Babbit is an entirely different ball game though and that is where the OP's problem lies. It is not the known materials that are causing his problem. Babbit composition is all over the map and often contains some interesting elements in strange percentages.

Jerry.

[mainiac]

Well,i have a few different batches of babbit. I have some that i melt out of ruined sleeve-oil fan bearings.This stuff is pretty soft,but makes pretty boolits. I also have a bunch of copper babbit that was used to set chipper knives,years ago.It has a high % of copper in it,cause the virgin babbit alloy had a gold color to it,and rung like a bell when hit. This is the stuff that will clog my bottom spout,if i use to much.Get the mix right,and it makes wonderful looking boolits that shoot very well,just as hard as i want to drive them.
The original question was, what causes this to slush up in the spout? Something eutetic going on here,or witchcraft,or moon phase?

[btroj]

Not whitchcradt at all, it is the copper.
You might want to dilute the heck out of that stuff Ina big smelt so you don't run into this again. I had it once when using almost pure onottpe to get an idea of how hard the bullets could be made. I was casting happily along and suddenly the spout was clogged. Kinda irritated me.
I now add this stuff VERY sparingly even though I know what is in it.

I have a bit of babbit and when I use it I add less than a pound to a 22 pound pot of range scrap. Adds a bit of hardness but has never caused this type of issue.

I bet the bullets you got before it froze are hard as heck. Nothing like the clicking sound they make when a few are rolled in your hands!

[mainiac]

Ya,i drained the pot,and labeled these ingots,now i have another dozen sweetners!
BTW, these measured out to 21 bn. Probaly be harder then my wifes heart,in a week or so....

[btroj]

Those are the ones that get added one to a pot to sweeten. I don't think of this as a failure but a learning lesson and a way to have a good supply of sweeteners when you need them.

[Defcon-One]

I disagree with those who have disagreed ! :)

.....When I make an alloy that works well I want to be able make it again.....Jerry

I agree with Jerry and Defcon-One (wait, I am Defcon-One) so I think that I was right!

Just Kidding.....

I agreed that it was the Copper and then said what I like to do. Jerry is right about the reason, so that I can make it again, and again and again, exactly the same.

As far as I am concerned everybody can do anything that they want, including ignoring my advice or reasoning. If you want to "just dump it all in" and see what happens, then so be it. No problem for me. I just like the other approach, you know the scientific stuff, to make it in a way that is precise and repeatable. Also, I do make large batches and that may be another reason why.

Some of you choose to play with Copper babbit and work around the problems, but I find that approach to be more of a hassle and effort (He did say, "the same problem, 5th time!"). I personally choose to avoid Copper!

Either way, it was the Copper babbit that caused the spout to freeze!


Added for btroj: Something to think about - If I always know exactly what I have for an alloy, then I always know that it will work well for my needs. I don't even need to test it, I know already from past experience!

[Sonnypie]

Oh my Goodness!

I was afraid this was a Loraina post.
And that somebodies boolit got cut short. [smilie=l:

Whew! Nevermind.... [smilie=p: