Lee Rifle Charging Die

[Ben]

You may or may not be aware that Lee Pistol expander die inserts fit the Lee Rifle Charging die ( Lee Part # 90194 ) also. Here is the die :

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/792057/lee-auto-disk-rifle-powder-charging-die-22-to-30-calibers

By placing pistol die expander inserts in the die, this gives you the ability to flare a 30-06, 30/30 , or .308 Win and throw the powder charge at the same time.

You can use a Lee Powder Measure if you're using powders that will meter smoothly through one of them ( like 2400 ) :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/4414eac2d6506978.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2524)


or...............

You can use a weighed charge and pour it into the red Lee Funnel as you see in the photo.
Powders like IMR - 4350 , etc. just are not suitable with the Lee Powder measure you see above.

Photos.................

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/001-10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/002-13.jpg

The case in the photo below is flared a little too much. This can be controlled by adjusting the die out a bit.
In this photo , the entire g/c is in the mouth of the case ( in my opinion....a little bit too much flare )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/003-6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/008-4.jpg

I stand corrected, the price isn't $2.00 for the Lee 30 M-1 expander plug , it is $3.00 , see
link below to order one :

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/PM-EXP-PLUG-30M1.html

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/010-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/011-3.jpg

I've done the same thing before with my 358 Win. by placing a Lee 38 Spec. Pistol expander die insert into the rifle charging die and using it to expand the necks of my 358 Win. cases and throw a powder charge at the same time.

Makes real quick work of the expanding and powder throwing operation in cast bullet loads.
I like to shoot 16.0 grs. of 2400 in my 30-06. This is a super fast and very accurate way to
assemble these loads.

Thanks,

Ben

[Maven]

That's really good to know, Ben. Guess I'll have to keep my Rifle Charging Die & Deluxe Auto Disk Powder Measure and order the expander for the .30cal. carbine now!

[Ben]

Paul,

You're only $3.00 away from having a super quick and easy way to flare and throw the powder in .30 cal. cases.

I did not mention that in order for this to work, you'd have to have a rifle caliber that would also interchange with a current Lee pistol application, like cal. 30 rifle cases and the use of a .30 M-1 carbine expander unit, or you could use the system with the 358 Win. , .35 Rem. or in 35 Whelen and use a Lee 38 Spec. expander die unit in the Rifle Charging die.

To my knowledge, there is not a way to use this system with calibers like the .270 Win. , 7 mm Rem mag, or 6.5 X 55 unless you had a machinist make the neck expander unit like you see in the 30 M-1 photo above and specifically custom fit it to your rifle cartridge.

Thanks,

Ben

[edsmith]

that is brillant.:awesome:

[edsmith]

this needs to be a sticky/

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Ben,

Excellent idea, thank you for posting it. I already have the M1 Carbine expander in my .30 carbine Lee die set!:D And the Pro Auto Disk measures I have should work perfectly with the WC844 and WC846 I have. :D

I'm betting Buckshot could make those easily for calibers like .270, 7.62 X 54R. This would make it much easier to load those calibers in certain bullets. Or, one could duplicate the contour of the Lyman expander dies with overall dimensions of the Lee expander. Perfect for cast boolits!:lovebooli

[bmanis]

Great post Ben, and even greater ingenuity.

Brandon

[JesterGrin_1]

So if I wished to do this with say the 358 Winchester or 35 Whelen I would need to get the Lee Rifle charging die? As I have the 38/357 Die set now. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Ben]

You're correct.
Pull out the expander unit out of the Lee 38/357 expander die, put it in the Lee Rifle Charge Die
and you can flare the mouth of a 35 Whelen ( or 358 Win. ) and throw the powder charge all at the same time.

[JesterGrin_1]

Darn another thing to order lol. Thank You Ben for the information.

[miestro_jerry]

I use the powder measures on my Dillon equipment, they work for me. When I am doing a special run of some calibers, I use my Lee M die and my powder funnel, but in that case I am measuring each powder load on my scales.

Jerry

[geargnasher]

Ben, you're a freakin' genius!!!

I was studying that setup when I got my first rifle charging die, figured I'd have someone make a custom 311" expander spud to mimic the Lyman 31 "M" die spud for the charging die that was also shorter in the body section so I could charge the longer .'06 cases without having to short-stroke the ram like I do with the "universal" insert that comes with the die. I never thought to use the .30 Carbine expander, and it's exactly what is needed to accomplish this if the necks are already correctly sized by the sizer/decapping die.

The thoughts I had about an expanding/flaring charging die insert was before I started using either the Collet sizer die for sizing/decapping fireformed brass or my honed-out sizers with .303 British EZ-Expander stems in them for 1f or new brass, which leaves the neck the correct size for .311" boolits either way, but still not flared. I've been using a Lee Universal Expander (flare) die for all my turrets instead of the appropriate Lyman "M" die like I used to before customizing my sizer dies to make the neck right to begin with, but it still burns a station in the turret. All a person really needs, like you point out, is a flare with the charging (provided proper neck sizing/expansion is already done with the sizer die), then a person could seat and crimp in two operations, in which I prefer to use a Lee collet-type Factory Crimp Die, especially for .30-30. You just solved my problems, THANK YOU!

Gear

[Ben]

Gear,

I'm glad that you and all the other great guys here on the forum can get some benefit from this idea. It has served me well and is a real time saver. Many of the powders that I throw for the 06 and 308 Win. ( like 2400 or Unique ) run well through a Lee Powder measure.

Ben

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/4414eac2d6506978.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2524)

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Very interesting!

Currently I load 30-06 on my Lee 4 hole by pre-procesing the brass (de-cap, clean, FL size, trim) then running it through the turrent with an M-die, Rifle Charge die, seater, FCD. I have been looking at the RCBS X-Die and wondering if it would be possilbe to speed this up to about the same way I do Pistol loads (sizing in the turret opperation without having to trim) but then that would leave out the M-die. This may be just the ticket!

I load quite a few 30-06 "fun" loads for feeding my Mil-Surp collection so I may just have to give it a try.

Thanks Ben.

[Ben]

Fun Loads is where this system excels ! !

BTW.....all of you be certain that the internals of the die and the expander unit are 101% oil free.

When Lee ships them, they look like they have been dipped in motor oil.

You can imagine just how well powder would slide down something like this.

I like to clean mine with aerosol brake cleaner. Then dust the internal parts with powdered graphite and take an oil free rag and rub the graphite into every little nook and crany.
They run very smooth then.

Ben

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Ben,

Do you ever run Red Dot in that Auto-Disk measure?

One of my favorite fun loads for my bolt guns is the 13gr Red Dot and if I do try the X-die setup I might get one of those auto-disk measures to go with it.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Ben, I recall reading on another forum where a fellow used this die as a dead length pistol bullet seater on his progressive press by removing the funnel and actuator (drop tube) and putting a Lee bullet seating stem appropriate to the caliber in the die and replacing the funnel with a standard Lee bullet seat adjustment screw. It is in contact with the shellplate hence dead length and allows every round off the press to share the same OAL down to the last round.

[geargnasher]

Red Dot meters about like poker chips in some measures, but I've had pretty decent luck with it in the Pro Autodisk. The key is always keep the measure half-full or more, and get in the habit of tapping the reservoir one time for each recharge just to be sure it fills.

+1 on a full-degrease and the powdered graphite lube on the internals. I also use it to lube the plunger inside the measure. Graphite is the only think I can think of that is long-term and does not affect powder. The measure and die will eventually get lubed with graphite residue from some powders anyway.

Gear

[JesterGrin_1]

Where would you look for powdered Graphite?

[geargnasher]

Lock cylinder lubricant, available at any hardware store, chinamart, etc. Comes in a small cylinder with a needle applicator on one end. When you squeeze the tube, the powder puffs out the end of the needle, usually a lot more than you want, so be gentle.

Gear

[JesterGrin_1]

Thanks I guess I was looking for big bottles of the stuff lol.

[Maven]

Ben's creativity with the Lee Auto Disk powder measure got me to thinking: Can it be used with either a Universal Charge- or Rifle Charging Die to throw large charges of rifle powder as well? The short answer is a resounding "yes" IF you also have the riser kit and extra disks and IF you're using a ball powder. Here's what I did:

First, the powder in question is a ball type, specifically the slow burning, but slick (slippery) WC 860. I typically use 48gr. + LR Mag. primers in my .30-06, 7.62 x 54R, and 8 x 57mm. with CB's weighing at least 180gr. However, since my current lot is a bit faster, I've dropped the charge to 46gr. - 47gr. Would the Auto Disk measure be able to do this, I wondered?

Second, not wanting to fiddle with the disks, I went right to the Lee Dippers and found that the 3.1cc dipper consistently -> 46.1gr. WC 860. All that remained was to find 2 disks, which when stacked -> at least 3.1cc. The 1.46cc + 1.57cc disks (3.03cc) threw a lighter charge than I wanted for the '06 and similar cases. Nevertheless, it was in the ballpark for the Arg. Mau. (7.65 x 53mm). Two 1.57cc disks, stacked, gave perfect, repeatable results: 46.5gr. Btw, tapping the expander die twice after throwing the charge seems to settle things down.

Third, I don't know whether the .30cal. carbine expander will fit the [Lee] Rifle Charging Die, but will give Lee Precision a call tomorrow to see. If not, I'll just have to use the Lyman "M" Die, but Ben's way saves a step.

Thanks to Ben, there's now another option for charging rifle cases with the Lee Auto Disk powder measure.

[Ben]

Paul :

I don't know whether the .30cal. carbine expander will fit the [Lee] Rifle Charging Die

It fits in mine like it grew in there.

No problems at all.

The " territory " that you're experimenting with is an area I've never tried with the system.
I've never thrown more that 20 grs. of fine grained powder.

Ben

[Maven]

Ben, I've got lots of WC 860 to use up + an Ohaus Duo Measure and a Bonzana BR measure set for 46gr. - 47gr, of it, but your way intrigued me. The standard deviation in powder charges with the Lee Auto Disk is no greater than what I get from the other two, namely 0.3gr. - 0.5gr. Don't even think about trying the Lee with extruded powders, as it's just too erratic.

[Ben]

True about the IMR's. I never tried it, but I'd think the elastomer ( sp ? ) wiper would take a real beating with the IMR powders like 4350 and 4831. You're RIGHT, it just isn't designed to work with powders like that.

Ball powder will run through one like water running through screen wire.

Ben
______________________

Can you see why I enjoy shooting 16 grs. of 2400 in my TIKKA ? ( This group is sub 1/2 " )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Photo0034.jpg

[Maximumbob54]

If anyone else is using a Hornady or RCBS case activated system then look at the Powderfunnels expander. This may be old news to many, but I just started using mine and it will never be removed from my press. I may even buy the linkage for my Uniflow and buy an extra expander since I like the thing so much. I get zero shaving of lead while using it. That is a neat idea though to use the .30 insert in the die though. Outside of the box thinking.

Oh, here is a link if I'm not being clear on what I'm talking about:

http://www.powderfunnels.com/products.html

[dragonrider]

Flaring inserts can be made for the calibers that are lacking them. Not a big job.

[SSGOldfart]

another great post,I find the dillion power funnel will also fare out the neck of my 30-06 cases,but I like to measure & check each charge for my rifle loads, so this would do away with the need to reset dies each time I load for the 30-06.
Guys we need to get Ben to finish his book so all this info is in one place,My internet was down over the weekend,you never know when your NOT going to be able to get this type of info by internet....

[cja245]

Thanks a lot for this info, Ben. I've been searching the web for several hours looking for a powder through expanding die for 30-30 and '06. I have no experience loading rifle cartridges, but it amazes me that no one makes one of these. I just ordered two of these allong with the mold, dies and other gadgets needed to start loading 30-06 and 30-30.

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay which one of these would I need for the 358 Winchester? Thank You.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/652922/lee-universal-charging-die

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/792057/lee-auto-disk-rifle-powder-charging-die-22-to-30-calibers

[iflyskyhigh]

I realize this thread is a little older, but I came across it and it was a great help to me.

I found the link to the Lee Expander Plug was outdated, and it took me a little time digging through the Lee website to find the item. I wanted to post the updated link to save people a little time if they too went looking for the part.

http://leeprecision.com/pm-exp-plug-30m1.html

The Auto-disk Rifle Charing Die can be picked up for cheap from either Midway USA or Brownells.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/powder-handling/measure-stands-accessories/lee-rifle-charging-die-sku100053065-56295-115227.aspx

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/792057/lee-auto-disk-rifle-powder-charging-die-22-to-30-calibers?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc

I'll be using to expand/charge .30-06 on Dillon 550B in place of the Dillon powered measure for hard cast lead plinking/practice loads.

These are the parts I have ordered, so if someone sees this and it's not the correct items that are needed please let me know ASAP so I can get the correct parts.

Thanks to website and everyone it for all the fantastic information. Invaluable.

Ryan

[LynC2]

I missed this thread previously, great information and thanks for the updated links iflyskyhigh!

[iflyskyhigh]

I forgot to add, I looked all over the internet for the Lee .30 cal expander plug. Couldn't find it anywhere expect the Lee website.

Save yourself some time and just order it from Lee. It's a little $6 with shipping, $6.92 to exact. The shipping was actually more than the plug itself, but like I said, I couldn't find it for sale anywhere else and I consider myself a pretty strong "internet shopper".

[A pause for the COZ]

I have been using the LEE 30m1 expander in a 38 special powder through die.
This works great for running my cast loads for my 300 Black Out on the progressive or on the turret press.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use the Lee powder die for loading all my larger bottleneck rifle cartridges.

I start with fully prepped and primed cases, and that includes flaring if cast are being pushed in.

I use a lot of IMR 4895 and it doesn't go thru anything very well. So the charges get dropped by an electronic powder measure.

The case goes under the charging die where the powder is dumped in a funnel and then tapped to make sure it all fell into the case.

Then seat bullet and then crimp in a separate step.

With strait walled cases I use a Powder Thru Expander Plug in a C&H Die, mainly because I have one and the plugs are cheap and easy to get or make.

Here's a pic of the set up on a C&H press which is how I load most larger rifle and pistol rounds.

For loading cast the Lee expander plug would save a step (M-die or flare) and speed things up as long as the powder would flow thru the die. 2400 should work?

Randy

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Stumbled on this, going to give it a try…

[Sig556r]

Wow, 10-yr old thread still keeps giving...way to go Ben. Same thing with Ben's red.