Your longest ethical shot.

[MBTcustom]

Last year I was on the Arkansas Christmas hunt and on the next to last day, a deer gave me a broadside shot 320 yards away. I was shooting a 300winmag and I was very familiar with that rifle's ballistics at that range and it looked like an easy shot so I leaned on a power pole for support and squeezed off a shot. The deer spun around three times and died 3 feet from where he was standing. I was satisfied to see that the bullet had impacted 1" lower than the spot I was trying to hit, meat in the freezer.
The next day, I was in the same spot and saw a heard of nice deer grazing on the next ridge (ranged at 600 yards exactly) I glassed them with my scope and figured that if I had a bipod and could get prone, I could probably hit the big one. There was practically no wind and it was a level shot, ridge to ridge, on an overcast 50 degree day. Humidity was 50%. I decided not to chance it because I had not been practicing with this load at that range, but I felt confident that had I had the right rifle, and 1000 rounds through it at that range, I could have easily made that shot.
So I asked some questions on the gunsmithing side about building a lightweight custom rifle for this specific purpose. I was surprised to find quite a few members who feel that a 600 yard shot is an unethical thing to contemplate, even if Carlos Hathcock himself was behind the trigger. I always figured that 600 yards was my limit for shooting a deer no matter what rifle I was shooting or how much time I had behind it simply because it is unlikely to see a deer further than that, and it is hard to get a rifle that will still put a deer down with authority at that range. However I was not prepared to be told that I should never attempt a shot like this under any circumstances, no matter how competent I am as a rifleman.
So my question is: What is the longest shot you would consider making on a whitetail deer or similar sized critter if your back was against the wall? Hypothetically, lets say if you miss you starve and if you make the shot, it goes in the record books.
This is with your best rifle that you own, shooting jacketed or cast.

[ku4hx]

Optically measured 330 yards; Caribou (Canada) 2000. Load was 180 grain Nosler Ballistic tip at a clocked MV of 3,100 fps from a BAR. Powder was 71.9 grains IMR4350. Never tasted sweeter meat.

[gray wolf]

Tricky question--
The longest shot I would take would be one that I felt 99% sure off a hit fatal.
One that I had full confidence in making, doping the wing included.
HOWEVER you stated if it were a miss The person would starve.
In that case If I couldn't stalk up closer--I would take any and all shots before I got so week that I couldn't track the animal if I missed.

[SciFiJim]

So my question is: What is the longest shot you would consider making on a whitetail deer or similar sized critter if your back was against the wall? Hypothetically, lets say if you miss you starve and if you make the shot, it goes in the record books.
This is with your best rifle that you own, shooting jacketed or cast.

On the basis of if I miss I starve, the ethics of hunting deer get left at home. I would try the longest shot my rifle is possible of getting the bullet and hope I got lucky.
Under the circumstances of hunt or starve, I would use my 8mm Mauser. A 1000 yard shot is unlikely, but not an impossibility.

However, on a normal deer hunt, a 200 yard shot is about the max I would try.

[geargnasher]

Tricky question--
The longest shot I would take would be one that I felt 99% sure off a hit fatal.
One that I had full confidence in making, doping the wing included.
HOWEVER you stated if it were a miss The person would starve.
In that case If I couldn't stalk up closer--I would take any and all shots before I got so week that I couldn't track the animal if I missed.

Exactly what I was going to say. Ethics change when the game switches from sport to survival.

Ethically, and I usually hunt with small calibers like .30-30 or 6.5X55, I limit shots to well under 200 yards, most shots are less than 50. The reason is I prefer to stalk game, therefore I don't practice with these calibers at anything beyond 200 yards.

Gear

[Rangefinder]

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

It was the last 15 minutes of the season--literally. I had an either sex/either species deer tag and hadn't even seen good sign for several days. I was on a ridge top and started glassing knolls and ridge lines across from me to see if there was anything moving out for an evening grazing. Waaaay over across several knolls and half-way up a paralleling ridge I could make out a deer grazing on what looked like a willow patch on a run-off cut. I made some estimations, braced against a tree, and let it rip---7mm Rem Mag with 165gr. jacketed soft-points. A soon as I recovered and glassed the spot where the deer was I didn't see anything. The first thing I thought was "D@&% it, now I've got to hike all the way over there just to verify I missed by 20 feet..." Well, I didn't. It was a fat muley doe and the bullet arced in right on her spine at the base of her neck. The reason I didn't see her when I glassed was that she was DRT and fell into the cut she was grazing in front of. I lasered it later and read it at 951 yards.

Now... saying that, I also have to say that was NOT what I would really call an ethical shot. It was a shot of desperation when I was much younger than I am now. I use to shoot 1000 meter matches and had my own private 1000M range. With either my 7mm Rem Mag Sendero or my Custom 6mm Rem. I can tap 9" plates all day long at that range. But I still wouldn't likely repeat a shot that far on game. 400 doesn't really bother me, 500 is about max if all the conditions are right. The fact of the matter is plates don't move. With a flight time of a second to a second and a half, game could decide to take a step, turn, any number of things during the time you fire and the bullet impacts. Even if you did everything right, that is still a factor beyond your control that could affect the shot very drastically.

Stalking is a skill best acquired. My closest shot is point-blank with my Winchester on a 2x3 buck that I snuck up on to the point there was no aiming--I raised the muzzle and fired from my belly one-handed---there were powder burns on his side from the muzzle blast. ;)

[bowfin]

425 yards on an antelope doe with a Remington 700 in .270 Winchester. Dead calm and silhouetted on top of a hill in the Oglala National Grasslands. I took one shot.

350 yards on a moving buck someone had shot in the foot, using a .308 Winchester Savage 99 with a Weaver K3W scope. I took this shot because I felt obligated to try. This took more than one shot. Four, if I remember, two hits through the ribcage.

My mantra is no one has a 400 yard rifle until they have shot it at 400 yards, or a 200 yard rifle until they have shot it at 200 yards.

The first question I ask if the deer is over 200 yards is "Is it going to come closer?" Second question is "Can I get any closer?"

[RugerFan]

Back in 1991 I shot a bear at 300 yds with a bolt .308 and a caribou at 500+ with a 300 Win Mag (with j-bullets). Both times I was laying in the prone with a rock solid rest. With whitetails I suppose I would shoot to 300 yds under optimum conditions, but probably no further.

[Char-Gar]

Not enough choices on the poll.. I would have picked 300 yards. Even then it would take a man with calm nerves, and the willingness to pass up the shot, if he is not 100% certain of a clean one shot kill.

[MBTcustom]

Good answers! I especially like Rangefinder's with the powder burns!:drinks:

[x101airborne]

Well, not only does "ethical" pertain to the situation, but also the person. That being said, I shoot varmints a lot longer off than I do licensed tag restricted game. The longest shot I have ever made on a deer is 305 yards with a witness. The longest shot I made on a varmint was a coon at 765. It is not that the shot on the deer was all that hard, I just dont feel the need to shoot that far when you only have two tags a year. That, and I enjoy hunting so passing one up that is "too far" is easy for me. Maybe not for someone who has two days a year to hunt and only sees one animal. Now I will try a shot on a hog out to 1000 yards. I dont care of the outcome because they are destructive and we have so many. I dont think anyone feels bad about gut shooting a prarie dog, ours are just a little bigger and stink more.

[onesonek]

Ironsighted is one thing, optics is another. But basically, I prefer to hunt my way in close as possible, or I pass. For the most part, I sight in with a given load, for a PBR of 1/2 to 1/3 the animals kill zone. But generally there, 4" for deer sized, 6" for elk, sometimes less, seldom more. If conditions are near pefect, I will push that if necessary, but never off the hair. Once that distant is reached, I just feel too many things can go wrong. I would much rather pass, to hunt another day. Big game is one thing, shooting Prairie Dogs, Vermin, and pest are another. Beyond that, I have only shot one big game animal over 250 yds., one of those last day last hour scenarios. And that was still within PBR of my load.
In a survival situation, that may change things up to a point. I would have to weigh the circumstance of the moment. But also feel, most times there's other food sources to get by, until a better oppritunity comes. In that case, the possible waste on one round might mean life or death also. No sense in taking chance or adding risk, unless absolutely necessary,,,at least in my way off thinking.

[southpaw]

The furthest shot I would consider would be 400 yards mainly because I have not shot further than that. I figure that I would be good enough to hit the critter but not in a vital spot. Now the longest shot that I have taken was a ranged 150 yards. What can I say I am a woods hunter.

Now if we are talking shoot or starve I am not very fond of starving. I am with the others ethics would be left at home.

Jerry Jr.

[Blammer]

I'll know this week after I get back from hunting.

I'm ready to ding something at 300yds if need be. :)

[wtfooptimax200]

Based on the key term of 'expert' and longest ethical, I voted 600 AND varies according to ability. I think 600 yard shots are ethical for an expert BUT any appropriate caliber for the game being hunting and the long range.

[btroj]

Poll is somewhat flawed. Survival tactics are not designed with ethics in mind. In a pure survival situation I may take risks I would not in a hunting for pleasure situation.
I hunt purely for fun so I look for a quick, clean kill. I prefer shots inside 50 yards and consider 300 a practical max.
I don't think your abilities from a bench at known ranges on a calm day mean diddly in the field. You need to know you can make the shot froma field condition, under stress, potentially tired, and make the shot independent of weather. That changes everything in my opinion.

I bet most hunters are best stating under 200 yards.

Bad

[Gee_Wizz01]

I believe the maximum ethical range, depends on the rifle, the caliber, and mostly the ability of the person behind the trigger. My longest shot was just a little over 440 yds with a 30-06. I was 22 and practiced several times a week at ranges up to 400 yds. I fired prone off a sandbag from the picnic table in the front yard. I knew the range because we had just strung a barbed wire fence that weekend and we had measured the distance. A few months before I got a coyote at 350 yds using the same table as a rest. That was 39 years ago, these days my limit is about 250yds. I don't have the eyesight and steady nerves I had back then.

Gary

[leftiye]

Three inches high at 100, three inches high at 200, right on at 300, 8 inches low at 400. It's called point blank sight adjustment. If you can hold tight enough that you know you are going to hit it where you point, it's dead.

[cbrick]

For just about all of us hunting is a sport. Starving to death is not a sport so of course that's a total game changer.

I've never been in a kill it or starve situation but I believe that if I thought the shot had any chance at all I would shoot. Any chance at all is far better odds than certain starvation and death.

Want to change this shoot or starve game a bit?

You have a very long and difficult shot, it's kill it or starve. You have one round of ammo left . . . What to do now?

Rick

[DLCTEX]

Two years ago I had shot prairie dogs at ranges exceeding 500 yds with a 257 Wby. and was confident in my ability to hit a deer at that range. My grand daughters husband came to hunt and was a new hunter. We put him on deer from 50 to 100 yds. and he missed them all. He was with me when two does approached and I told him I was going to shoot one, then the does turned and ran at an angle and didn't stop until they were a lasered 503 yds. away. I told him I was going to shoot the big one and he said they were pretty far. Shooting from a rest I dropped her in her tracks and he almost fell over and said how can you even hit one that far. I mostly did it to make the point that it was him and not the gun as he had been thinking. Antlerless are almost vermin here as we are over run and were issued 150 doe tags last year and filled 139 of them, donating most of them to the Texas prison system.

[montana_charlie]

The question is premised on the shooter being an expert marksman.
Then, the final option is, "Varies based on personal ability"

The existence of that option throws the 'expert marksman' part right out of consideration.
Having eliminated the 'expert', the last option ibecomes the only ethical option.

I once killed a muley buck at 500 yards. I consider it as an 'ethical' shot because I firmly believed I knew what I was doing, felt I had the range calculated accurately, and was confident that I understood the ballistics of my load at that range.

But, I have to admit that I was using the wrong the ballistics information, and I had underestimated the range at 400 yards.

If somebody had told me it was a 500 yard shot, I wouldn't have taken it.

CM

[montana_charlie]

Want to change this shoot or starve game a bit?

You have a very long and difficult shot, it's kill it or starve. You have one round of ammo left . . . What to do now?

Rick
I scrounge around and find a hubcap.
I cut an X in the middle and tie a rope to the valve stem hole.
Then I locate a place where deer habitually jump over a fence, or other obstacle.

I place the hubcap over a slight depression on the spot where they take off, and cover it with soil.
Then, I tie the rope to something that won't move.

CM

[Beau Cassidy]

After taking a smallish whitetail 4 years ago at a lasered 440 yards with my .30/06 from a rest I would have to say about 300 yards would be a max. Certainly less if off off a poor rest.

I consider most field situations to have a 1 foot "wobble factor" at 100 yards, a 2 foot "wobble factor" at 200 yards, and so on. It is extremely difficult for a fella to get a good rest in a field situations. Wind, breathing hard, glare, moving target, poor rest all come into play.

[MBTcustom]

You have a very long and difficult shot, it's kill it or starve. You have one round of ammo left . . . What to do now?
That's exactly what I'm talking about!
How far do you feel absolutely confident that you could make the shot with your last piece of ammo. Seriously, I wish I had thought to word it like that!
One guy might see a deer at 600 yards and consider it meat on the table. Another guy would do what ever he could to close the distance by a few hundred yards before his confidence is at 98%.

How close do you have to be before the certainty of victory inspires you to pull the trigger?

Personally, I shoot 300 winmag and anything this side of 350 yards is groceries even if I only have one shot left, but I believe that there are others here who could take my rifle and drop the same deer from twice that distance and make it seem like another boring day in their routine.

[btroj]

I don't like hypothetical situations like this. We can really say what we would do in tis situation.

I would probably be more likely to wait for a more certain shot. If there is one deer then there are probably more. One round left, it better count.

I personally doubt there are many who can equally make a shot over 300 yards and kill clean every time. Being in a starvation situation makes it even less likely. Stress of one round left. Stress of starvation. Cold. Miserable. So many things that all erode our ability to focus and shoot well. How well do most of us shoot when we have a cold? When the weather is crappy?

Again- hypothetical situations are great to ponder but I hope I am never in one. No desire to be starving that bad.

[edsmith]

if you are using a rifle with scope and know how to shoot it, it should be no problem at 600 yds. when I was in the army, we had to qualfiy at 100yds, 200yds, and 500yds with a m1 garand, it had a peep sight. if I can hit a bullseye at 500yds. with iron sights, you should beable to hit a deer at 600yds. with a scope, if not stick to targets at 50yds. :bigsmyl2:

[mpmarty]

Hunting a clear cut with the manager of the logging company we spied a small buck on a ridge with three does walking parallel to us (we were down in a canyon) I told my buddy that if we got to the end of the canyon without jumping anything I'd take the little buck on the ridge above us. He pulls out the detailed map of where we were and informed me the ridge was five hundred yards horizontally and about three hundred feet higher. We got to the end of the canyon and hadn't seen anything so I told my friend I was going to shoot the buck on the ridge. He laughed and said if I hit it he'd pack it down to the truck. I told him to stand still and rested my Howa 7mm mag on his shoulder and sighted on the buck. The buck had stopped and was standing on the ridge facing us presenting a narrow target. I fired and when the rifle came back down out of recoil the buck was not there any longer. My friend laughed and told me I'd missed. I told him I'd walk up to make sure and handed him my rifle. When I got to the ridge top the little buck was on his back with four legs in the air. My 160gr Nosler had hit him in the middle of the brisket and exited between his shoulders. I waved my buddy up and started down the hillside as we passed I took my rifle back and told him I'd go get the pickup and bring it closer so he didn't have to drag the deer so far.

ps: Had I been packing my Marlin 1895 I'd have passed on anything beyond 150 yards.

[Lizard333]

For just about all of us hunting is a sport. Starving to death is not a sport so of course that's a total game changer.

I've never been in a kill it or starve situation but I believe that if I thought the shot had any chance at all I would shoot. Any chance at all is far better odds than certain starvation and death.

Want to change this shoot or starve game a bit?

You have a very long and difficult shot, it's kill it or starve. You have one round of ammo left . . . What to do now?

Rick

If any of us are ever in this predicament we are on the wrong forum..... Why wouldn't you just cast some more???

[Harter66]

My best ethical shot 350 yd across a bald saddle w/ 2way wind in it. It was from the left where we were and the rt where the deer were. Slightly down hill. Id guess looking back it was maybe 35* 8500' msl on a falling barometer. The rifle a 700 BDL in 25-06' w/4-12x50 its mechanical twin today is a GI M40.

Would I take it again ,yep , in a minute. But I had about 5 tons of granite for a rest.

2 years ago I missed a 100yd chip shot by 9 ft the next shot was just over 250 on a fire break, my last shot was a hail Mary of sorts the best part of 600 and fell a foot low. My hold over was good the little voice made me 2nd guess for the uphill. No I would not take that shot again.

[miestro_jerry]

I would be carrying my 300 RUM with a pocket full of factory ammo that is loaded for different amounts of energy. I have taken deer out to 400 yards with this rifle and maybe this is season I will get an Elk out to that distance.
The one thing that I have to mention, if this is in my "backyard" my distance restrictions are much different that if I wa in Kansas. I live in Appalachia, the distance restrictions are generally under 200 yards, other wise your kicking up dirt from the side of a mountain or hill.

Jerry

[Rokkit Syinss]

I voted "varies" because there are too many variables involved. I've never been in a shoot or starve situation but with a few assumptions: I know the rifle and ammo, am in practice with the rifle and ammo, I know the zeroes, I have a bipod, I have excellent glass appropriate to the rifle and range and the conditions are amenable to the shot.

With my old 6.5-06 I would not hesitate to take a 1000 yard shot nor would I hesitate to take a 2000 yard shot with a .408 Cheytac as far as the deer goes. But what's behind the deer in case I miss? There I have an ethical problem. (edit- this is strictly according to the OP's shoot or starve stipulation. neither round is exactly deer appropriate and the rifles with glass run 16lbs for the 6.5 and IIRC the Cheytacs come in between 27 and 32 lbs. without sights).

When I did hunt it was always irons and my farthest shot was approx. 200 yards because you generally don't see them much farther out around here or if you do there are so many trees or scrub between you and the deer it isn't worth it or the deer is silhouetted on a ridge and you have the ethical problem of what's behind him. (Edit, as issued 98K, M96 or M38 Swedish Mausers were what I used).

Tired and wrung out? The 20th shot in a 1000 yard regional championship match in 110 degree heat in a heavy coat with two sweatshirts under it and you drill an X means you can do it dead tired, stressed and dehydrated. Long range high power shooters do that all the time.

[trk]

Ethical range limit?
I shoot prairie dogs. There is NO limit - not too close nor too far.
They carry rabies and the plague.
Well, maybe too close - so you don't get hit by the splatter.

[Love Life]

437 yards (Per the rangefinder) for me. The rifle was a M48A Yugo chambered in 8mm Mauser. My buddy glassed and called range. I adjusted my as issued sights, and let loose with my 198 GR NBT. That deer fell down like a truck hit it. It was a small doe, but man that was a heck of a shot.

Also. I don't know when it happened, but sometime in the mid 90's deer started growing bullet proof fur. I will take a shot at whatever I feel comfortable shooting at. If I have the old 8mm I will un-hesitatingly take a shot from 100-700 yards with irons. Not bragging, but it really isn't that hard. People get hung up around "Sub MOA", but I get hung up around 8 inch pie plates. Moving on... I don't use ballistic calculators or mil-dot scopes. I shoot my load all the way up to 800 yards ( we have the range) to make sure where my load hits. Period. I don't guess and I don't compensate for a bad shot with a higher caliber.

[pmer]

I voted distance varies too. If I was that hungry I would be carying something smaller and shooting anything that moves.

A impressive shot for me was a running deer in the neck at 313 paces with a worn out O3A3. He was running wounded and that put him down. Rifle season starts in a couple weeks here..

[Love Life]

That's exactly what I'm talking about!
How far do you feel absolutely confident that you could make the shot with your last piece of ammo. Seriously, I wish I had thought to word it like that!
One guy might see a deer at 600 yards and consider it meat on the table. Another guy would do what ever he could to close the distance by a few hundred yards before his confidence is at 98%.

How close do you have to be before the certainty of victory inspires you to pull the trigger?

Personally, I shoot 300 winmag and anything this side of 350 yards is groceries even if I only have one shot left, but I believe that there are others here who could take my rifle and drop the same deer from twice that distance and make it seem like another boring day in their routine.

300 WinMag with a good scope with a good shooter will slay Elk, Deer, Hogs, Coons, Groundhogs all day at 350 yards. That is actually an easy shot at 300 yards. You are talking about a round that will shoot under 3 1/2 inches at 600 yards. Here are my final thoughts. Load your round and practice with it out to 700 yards if you can. I'm not talking sub-MOA, I am talking 8 inch pie plate. Can you sink 5 of 5 rounds at YOUR max distance into 8 inches? That is all that matters. No matter what is said, getting holes poked in you does not make you want to run long distance.

[Lloyd Smale]

when were doing crop damage deer shooting the ranges tend to be long. I make probably a half a dozen kills each year out past 500 yards. 400 is pretty routine and seldom do they come much less then 300. For the most part if its farther then the low 500s i pass. Now this is if i happen to be using something like a 257 264 7mm or 300 mag. If im using a standard round like a 2506 280 06 ect i end it at 400. Not that hits a bit farther arent possible with these rounds its just that in my experience they just dont put deer down well at anything farther. Keep in mind though that this isnt really normal hunting. Theres not the pressure of looking at a big buck and you allways have plenty of time to shoot and a real good rest. To be honest in nomal deer season the longest shot ive had to make was around 200 and shots past a 100 are rare.

[41mag]

Growing up under my pop was an interesting and educating experience. I sure wished he had lived longer, as he was a huge inspiration and great friend.

This said he grew up with 9 other siblings and his pop was killed when they were still pretty young. This was coming out of he depression and through WW2, when things were tight, and times were tough. They DID hunt on our families farm for food, and it did sometimes mean eating or not. Growing up under him as mentioned was something. I learned at a VERY early age, if you went out with 10 rounds of .22's squirrel hunting, you had better come back with one for each shot fired, or prepare to explain why. He would sit out on the back porch and listen while I was out hunting and there was no getting around this, period. As I grew older this same commitment was applied by me to all of my hunting. It has made me a MUCH more conscientious hunter and shooter to say the least.

I shoot year round like most here do, but most of my shooting is at 200yds or more. I have several rifles with which I have no issues shooting 2" or less groups with out to 300 or more yards on a consistent basis. I do this from the bench, from a bi-pod, or prone off a rolled up coat or towel.

To date, I have shot numerous fox squirrels at 200+/- yards, off my feeders with no injured motors or barrels yet, a skunk in the head at 283yds, while it bobbled around looking pretty sickly, a coyote between the eyes at just past 350yds, several hogs out past 400, and several deer over 300 and one at 420yds. All of these were one shot, done deals. I do pick my shots, and I do make them count. If I cannot put my shot within a certain area on any game animal I simply will not shoot, period.

As for the starving thing, well to me it wouldn't matter if I had one bullet or 1000, I would make the shot count, no matter the range. In this situation I would most likely be hunting a trail or watering hole, where I knew something would be coming up to and the shot would be a guaranteed one. However, IF I had to shoot long, the conditions would dictate whether or not the shot would be taken, than the range.

As for the ethic's involved, to me this is a personal thing, and in the case of eat or die, my, or family's appetite will always trump what someone else thinks is prim and proper. To be honest, the situations I encounter time and time again in the field where I hunt are also a matter of personal choice. I know my capabilities, and those of the rifles, handguns, and bows with which I shoot. So to me, this is what counts, not what someone who has only ever hunted or shot within a certain criteria feels is appropriate. I'm the one who has to live with my mistakes, and who has to loose sleep over it when things go wrong. I haven't lost much sleep over the years due to this.

[Bret4207]

I'm not a rabid hunter. I don't "have" to fill my tag or get the biggest rack or prove I can shoot at 798 yards. Personally, I'd prefer to hip shoot them at 5 feet. My longest ethical shot is going to depend on cover, lighting, wind, position, etc. more than what super duper tactical elite whiz bang extreme cartridge I'm using.

I'll say this much, if we would limit our deer hunter to 2.5x scopes and 7x57 rifles we'd have a much healthier deer herd, better hunters and a lot less obese coyotes. I know a lot of guys that shoot deer at "400 yards". Many of them measure deer hunting yardage with the same ruler they measure their reproductive organ with and that "400 yards" is more like 150-175 yards. Sadder are the idiots that actually do shoot at 400 yards. After they take that Hail Mary shot if the deer doesn't drop over dead right there, they assume they missed and never go look for blood or hair. I despise that type of "hunter".

[selmerfan]

I'm absolutely confident with my .308 and .260 Rem. with jacketed bullets at 400 yds. With a rest and wind of 15 mph or less and a standing animal I'll take the shot pretty much every time. I practice with both rifles on 8" plates and gallon milk jugs out to 600 yds, but there are more variables than I'm comfortable with shooting at an animal at 600 yds. And the country I hunt will virtually ALWAYS permit a way to try to get closer. I save the long-range shooting for targets and the satisfaction that I can do it. I would take a 500 yds shot under ideal conditions, but the possibility of one step between the bullet leaving the muzzle and striking the animal always exists and I like a shorter flight time than that, as well as taking bullet energy into account. So...I clicked 400 but would have said 500. And I'm considering a sporting situation, although I am purely a meat hunter, it's not about pure survival. Pure survival would mean I'm taking the 600 yd. shot and beyond because I know what my bullets will do, but I don't know what the animal will always do.

[btroj]

Bret summed it all up pretty darn well. His view of ethical hunti and mine are pretty darn similar. It is about what we owe to the game, not what we can do to brag about. I hunt for pleasure, pure and simple. I don't need to tell about throne I sot at 458 yards to feel good about myself. I prefer to sit back and think aout the time I spent in the woods alone, with my daughter, or with my father. Isn't that what it is all about anyway?

[3006guns]

On the basis of if I miss I starve, the ethics of hunting deer get left at home. I would try the longest shot my rifle is possible of getting the bullet and hope I got lucky.
Under the circumstances of hunt or starve, I would use my 8mm Mauser. A 1000 yard shot is unlikely, but not an impossibility.

However, on a normal deer hunt, a 200 yard shot is about the max I would try.

I have to agree....shoot or starve. Ethics is a device of civilization.

By the way, the longest shot I've made was 1475 measured yards...five hits on a Volkswagen sized boulder with my iron sighted 1903 Springfield. Not a hunting feat of course, but it really opened my eyes as to what those old rifles are capable of. That was quite a few years ago and my eyes haven't improved over the years, so any "meat shot" would be a lot closer these days.

[largom]

I'm not a rabid hunter. I don't "have" to fill my tag or get the biggest rack or prove I can shoot at 798 yards. Personally, I'd prefer to hip shoot them at 5 feet. My longest ethical shot is going to depend on cover, lighting, wind, position, etc. more than what super duper tactical elite whiz bang extreme cartridge I'm using.

I'll say this much, if we would limit our deer hunter to 2.5x scopes and 7x57 rifles we'd have a much healthier deer herd, better hunters and a lot less obese coyotes. I know a lot of guys that shoot deer at "400 yards". Many of them measure deer hunting yardage with the same ruler they measure their reproductive organ with and that "400 yards" is more like 150-175 yards. Sadder are the idiots that actually do shoot at 400 yards. After they take that Hail Mary shot if the deer doesn't drop over dead right there, they assume they missed and never go look for blood or hair. I despise that type of "hunter".


THANK YOU BRET! If the deer is 400 or 500 yards away why can't you get closer? That's why it's called HUNTING and not SHOOTING. Most hunters today would starve if they had to really hunt like the Native Americans did and get within bow range. It takes skill to stalk up on game animals and that is what hunting is about. Killing a deer at 600 yds. is not skill, it's just plain luck. If I want to shoot long range I shoot at targets, they don't bleed and suffer if I miss the bullseye. I put my meat in the freezer each year with one shot under 100 yds.

Larry

[onesonek]

Bret summed it all up pretty darn well. His view of ethical hunti and mine are pretty darn similar. It is about what we owe to the game, not what we can do to brag about. I hunt for pleasure, pure and simple. I don't need to tell about throne I sot at 458 yards to feel good about myself. I prefer to sit back and think aout the time I spent in the woods alone, with my daughter, or with my father. Isn't that what it is all about anyway?

Yep, me too.
I have never had so much fun hunting, as the time watching my son from a hilltop, crawl up 300 +yds in ankle deep cover, on a deer bedded down in a small wet growth patch in the middle of a large pasture. He got within 50 yds, before unholstering the SBH 44 mag and taking the 140 class buck off his feet as it stood up. That is still my most memorable hunt in 40 yrs., even though I didn't fill my tag. If desired and the will is there, there is a way to get closer, even it turns out to be 3 hour crawl. Although I realize that not be physically capable for some. But then again, it is more time consuming than physical.

[Tatume]

Although I shoot paper targets with excellent success at 1000 yards, and have the ability to kill deer at 500 yards shooting off-hand (demonstrated publically), I don't see the point. When I hunt I want to be up close and personal with the animal I'm hunting. I stalk groundhogs to within 50 yards. I could kill them at several hundred yards, but don't want to. Almost always I kill deer within 100 yards, and wouldn't want to take a 300 yard shot on a deer.

Some people have mixed in discussion of foraging with what I took to be a poll on hunting. Staying alive and hunting for sport are two different things.

The same goes for sniping. Military operations are not sport.

Each person has his own views on what he enjoys, and my opinions on the ranges at which I hunt are not to be taken as a condemnation of someone else's choices. When I hunt with a traditional patched round ball flintlock muzzleloader, I have no opinion on someone else hunting with a modern inline rifle, or a certerfire cartridge rifle. When I stalk a deer to within 100 yards, I do it because that is what gives me satisfaction. If someone else shoots game at 300 yards, that's his business.

[pmer]

I've done some long range target shooting too and rigs and gear you need to consistanly hit at those ranges start at the reloading bench and end up with spendy sighting gear. I have used my heavy barreled 6.5-284 deer hunting with 140 game kings but I set a range limit of 350 yards because that's what I could safley pactice and shoot it while hunting.

I think it was the least amount of load development I ever did to get mintue of deer at 350 yards LOL. But it wasn't too great draging a 32" barreled rifle around. But very steady off hand for short time...;)

[atr]

a little over 200 yds,,,downhill...mule deer up in the Sierra Nevada mountains
.....30-06 with 150 gr J.....one shot dropped him immediately.....
then the real "fun" began getting him back up that mountain side to camp
I suggested to myself at the time to NEVER again shoot a deer that was down the side of a mountain !

[Casting Timmy]

I don;t think 600 yards is out of the question, if you practice it and know your abilities. I was always amazed at the shooting range each year the people sighting in the rifles for their yearly hunting trip. Some of those poor soles couldn't hit the target at 25 yards!

I think you're going to be putting in the time and have sound judgement, do what you think is best.

[montana_charlie]

I don't need to tell about throne I sot at 458 yards to feel good about myself.
I also never brag about long range shots ... and I don't take many beyond 250.
I am much more proud of instant one-shot kills.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is atough question that I think everyone has to answer for himself with respect to his own personal code of conduct.

I shoot some Long Range Silhoutte with my new RGS 77 .308 and I routinely hit 3-4/10 rams at 550 yds, offhand. Pretty sure I could hit every one over a rest. Pretty dialed in at the 4 distances with a 200 yd zero.

I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting a live big game animal farther than 200 yds unless my back was against the wall and had to eat and feed my family. Then 600yds would be the practical limit for that gun. But really I'd want to log alot more practice before the zombie apocalypse happens and necessitates such behavior.

I also shoot my Leverguns alot and if I was gathering food with one of them 200yds for the .45-70 and 150 for the .44 Mag. They also have iron sights but I feel confident at those ranges because of the Short Range Cowboy Sil shoots I do.

Also an accurate range finder would be a handy thing to have. There is 5.25 MOA or 25" in drop difference between 420yds and 550yds so knowing how far the shot is is a must.

Everybody has to decide his own level of ethics, but when you're hungry that tends to go out the window to a degree comensurate with exactly how hungry you are.

Randy

[bobthenailer]

longest shot on whitetail deer 386 yards . 1 shot kill, went straight down , however i was well prepaired for the shot. lasered ranged the distance , gun was sighted in at 300 yards and would put them in 1 1/2 " at that distance and had a ballistic chart from 200 to 500 yards , i was shooting from a short legged canoe type seat with a harris bi pod wating for them to cross the gas line, so i relaxed .

[miestro_jerry]

I have done a lot of paper punching long range shots at well beyond what I consider a kill range for deer. To me 400 meters or less is what I would be consider a proper range for taking a deer unless it is a paper deer target.

Jerry

[Char-Gar]

a little over 200 yds,,,downhill...mule deer up in the Sierra Nevada mountains
.....30-06 with 150 gr J.....one shot dropped him immediately.....
then the real "fun" began getting him back up that mountain side to camp
I suggested to myself at the time to NEVER again shoot a deer that was down the side of a mountain !

Many years ago, and hour before dark, I shot a big desert mule deer buck way up on top of Dead Horse Mountain in the Texas Big Bend Country.

I learned a big lesson from that, after that when I was way, way back in the country, I would unload my rifle and if somebody was with me, give him the ammo to keep me from grabbing it and loading when I saw a good deer. When I got back closer to camp, I reloaded the rifle and hunted my way back.

[Bret4207]

I see a few folks talking about survival situations where ethics goes out the door. In a case like that boys, I'm hanging snares in good deer runs. Anytime I see people talking about SHTF and not mentioning traps, I know people haven't sat back and thought about things. Traps work 24/7, night and day. I know this is about ethical shooting, but I just thought I'd throw that in to mix for those that want to muddle the water.

[FN in MT]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/ddd0962b.jpg

This bull was the longest shot I have ever taken on GAME and it was a lasered 555 yds. He was previously wounded with a 250 gr slug from a .338 win mag in the guts. No fault of the original shooter, his scope was placing rds 2' to the left. He had checked zero a few days earlier and it was right on.

It was end of the day, we finally ID'd this guy as the wounded bull in a fairly large herd , light was failing. The hunter was not familiar with my rifle, even after dry firing a few times he asked me to shoot the bull. Thats a very accurate Wby Lt Wt in .280 Rem. Hit the bull with my shot well within the area I'd aimed foor...ending the mess before the coyotes dined on the bull.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/2002whitey.jpg

This was a 150" whitetail shot at a lasered 380 yds. Rifle is a HART barreled Rem 700 in .280 AI. One hundred fifty grain Nosler partition.

I practice regularly on 10" steel plates as well as PAPER out to 400 yds. I know where each my big game rifles I use will impact out to 400 yds.

I think that experience, a cool head, and knowing that rifles ballistics are probably the key elements for succesful LR hits.

My self imposed limit is 400 yds...especially for deer or antelope...far smaller heart/lung area compared to an elk. I far prefer a reading in the 100 to 200 yd area.

On elk hitting the laser button and getting a reading in the mid to high 300 yd area isn't cause for much alarm. A MUCH larger target area.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/DSC00968_edited-1.jpg

IIRC this guy was at 320 yds...notice the flat cover less country...WHY one is stuck taking these longish shots out here.

FN in MT

[BAGTIC]

It depends on your hat size.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

how far do you regularly pratice? How far can you consistantly hit a 6" paper plate"? same for rifle or pistol.
Longest range I have readily available is Moss Knob at 150 yds.
When I lived elsewhere and could shoot 200 yds, I'd go for a 200 yd shot.
I would not even think about a 600 yd shot.
CF

[btroj]

I see a few folks talking about survival situations where ethics goes out the door. In a case like that boys, I'm hanging snares in good deer runs. Anytime I see people talking about SHTF and not mentioning traps, I know people haven't sat back and thought about things. Traps work 24/7, night and day. I know this is about ethical shooting, but I just thought I'd throw that in to mix for those that want to muddle the water.

I don't have any traps but I will eat fine using a shotgun and 22 rimfire on small game. in a SHTF situation I have more time than anything so getting close should be no obstical. It isn't like I have to work or anything.

We can all talk aout what we would do in a SHTF situation but do any of us really know? How many of us have been in that situation?

Hunting and ethics go together like guns and safety to me. I won't have one without the other.

I also doubt a true SHTF situation will happen in my lifetime. I spend almost as much worrying aout the impending zombie apocalypse as I do SHTF stuff. Waste of time to me.

[tommygirlMT]

My most accurate long range gun is my 460 Steyr --- my best load for it uses a Lehigh 458-500 solid turned brass match boolit loaded with WC872 powder with the charge dialed in the sweet spot --- with that load with my man acting as my spotter I have scored first shot kills on yotes at 800 yards --- provided the wind wasnt "gusty" (gusty wind is bad steady wind is not since steady wind can be compensated for) --- I would not hesitate to take that long of a shot on a deer as well --- If I only had one bullet and I would starv if I missed my first shot I would try to cut the range in half down to 400 or so --- but there would be no need to try to shorten it up further then that --- a lot of my other heavy guns though including the heavy Weatherby cartridges and the big 50BMG I wouldnt go beyond 600 or so because they arnt as accurate as my 460 Steyr is --- darn that thing shoots good --- yah Ill shoot a yotes beyond 600 with them but shooting at yotes is a whole different thing then deer --- a good yote is a dead yote and a gut shot isnt outside of the ethical bounds on a yote

Now --- not so heavy guns like a the smallish medium size rifle cartridges like the 30-06 anything beyond 300 yards or so is getting pretty iffy in my mind --- that little bitty 30 size boolit runs out of steam pretty quick better a bigger caliber heavier boolit out further even if it starts out a bit slower --- over range the bigger the boolit the better it does the further out you go --- heavy magnum revolvers are good out to 200+ or so depending on how heavy they are --- (460 Mag is about the best for long range and good out to 300 with right load) --- and how good of a shot ye be

[leftiye]

Nother easy answer - Yuh cain't measure ethics in feet 'n inches.

[JohnH]

THANK YOU BRET! If the deer is 400 or 500 yards away why can't you get closer? That's why it's called HUNTING and not SHOOTING. Most hunters today would starve if they had to really hunt like the Native Americans did and get within bow range. It takes skill to stalk up on game animals and that is what hunting is about. Killing a deer at 600 yds. is not skill, it's just plain luck. If I want to shoot long range I shoot at targets, they don't bleed and suffer if I miss the bullseye. I put my meat in the freezer each year with one shot under 100 yds.

Larry

It's easy to believe it's luck until one goes out and shoots pdogs. The one begins to realize there is a whole set of skills that goes into long range shooting; reading wind, reading range, knowing the ballistic curve of load, knowing your rifle, etc. Being from the thick woods of Georgia and Alabama, I would have once considered shooting at anything beyond 150 yards unethical.

After my first trip to the plains of western Oklahoma, where judging what 500 yards looks like was difficult because I'd never been able to see that far before, I became aware that a whole different world about range existed. I came out of that first trip regularly shooting pdogs at 300 yards first shot, and thought little of shooting them between 400 and 500 yards. This with steady 20 mph crosswinds and bursts of 40-50, winds most easterners wont even go hunting in. In the east a lot of hunters wait for a calm day, on the plains a 15 mph wind is a calm day.

My first deer after that trip was shot at 225 yards; a doe, an Encore 243 Win (same rifle I used on pdogs) and a Remington 100 grain CoreLoct.

What I hear in all this (the thread in general, no one specifically) is more about what people percieve to be "normal" ranges than "ethical" or otherwise. Many folk here in 'Bama consider 100 yards to be a long shot. On the plains, that can be close range. Some of the answer depends on what someone considers "normal" range, and that changes by location.

I also think some people don't understand the difference between "zero" and "point blank range" and I think many don't have access to a shooting range that lets them explore that. Consider, if all one has is a 100 yard range, then 100 yards is going to become a subconscious maximum range. It has nothing to do with the ability of the rifle or the person for that matter, and everything to do with the physcology of the set up.

My personal limit? Depends on the point blank range of my load, the rest I have available, my ability to use it without disturbing the game, and my confidence in my ability to make the shot...
Hungry? Anything that stands still long enough for me to get a sight picture is going to be fired on, and if it takes more than one shot to kill it, so be it. It is the responsibility of a hunter to follow up and kill any game wounded, failure to do that is about all I consider to be unethical.

On Edit... If all I got is one bullet, and I don't have any other hunting/survival skills it won't matter what happens as at best I'm one animal away from starvation...

[Doble Troble]

Every shot I've ever taken at game I was never certain it was a good one until I found the dead animal. If hunting doesn't reinforce humility, I don't know what can. This is why it is the greatest sport.

[1Shirt]

No real good answers to the question due to variables. My longest shot on deer has been 137 ranged. Longest shot in Africa, 438yds: ranged on red heartabeast, 7x57, 139 gr. Hor, one shot kill, rested. Took shot only because PH told me where to hold, and I knew the rifle. Different story on P-dogs. Have kills well in excess of 500 yds. However, that is not hunting, that is shooting. Overall, I like the philosophy of some of the old elephant hunters, "get as close as you can, then get 5 yards closer".
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Harter66]

Get out the extinguishers.

I see as we go farther west, here in the states, that the common shots get longer, I'll say its because we simply have more open bare little to no cover landscape. Armed w/that why does anybody east of the Mississippi want a a rifle bigger than a 308 or heavier than the 45-70? I mean it looks to me like you're lucky to see 100yd much less shoot that far. :kidding:


Next question . Why does a deer, moose,elk,antelope, or mt lion,rate a clean,humane,ethical kill,but coyotes,Pdogs,ferral cats,even pigs don't? I mean will their sufferings from a bad hit be less than tagged trophy critters?

Long ago I was taught don't point @ it if your not going to shoot it, and don't shoot it if you're not going to kill it, don't kill it if you're not going to eat it. Followed later by deeper ethos,exemptions and qualifiers,like hides only from cats and dogs and poofed starlings and house sparrows. They were then as in my camp now to be dead as cleanly as possibly, whether it's a pack rat or a BC top 10.

Funny how many of us think letting a pig or coyote wander off and die gut shot on sight is ok ,but anything over 200yd is not ok for table game......................................:groner:

[Hang Fire]

My closest unethical shot. One morning in Alaska was lying on the bunk reading in a drafty log cabin , when heard crunch, crunch in the snow outside. Pried a piece of chinking out, peeked through and there stood a cow moose about five feet away, poked the barrel out, took the shot and filled my tag. Wasn’t a hunt, but I was after meat, nuff said.

[tommygirlMT]

Absolutely !!!!!!! --- Bill Weddle --- You tell him

Although --- cant back you up 100% on your last sentence --- there are two legged varmits that go in the same catagory as the yotes in my mind (dont have feral pigs here so cant speak on them directly but from what I hear same line as yotes) --- unfortionatly you cant just up and shoot the two legged varmits like you can with the yotes and still be on the right side of the law

[Rangefinder]

Next question . Why does a deer, moose,elk,antelope, or mt lion,rate a clean,humane,ethical kill,but coyotes,Pdogs,ferral cats,even pigs don't? I mean will their sufferings from a bad hit be less than tagged trophy critters?

No such thing as a trophy critter in my world. It's either meat or vermin if my muzzle comes up on it. Meat I want DRT because I really hate tracking and packing when it's not necessary. Vermin are just practice--and I like to make them DRT as well simply because I like to know I'm capable of it when it's meat on the line. P-dogs never know what hit them. Ferral cats I'm not overly concerned with either, except I don't pass a shot on them unless it's a safety issue. When I see them, I want them dead immediately--clean or not--because there's no telling how much damage they'll cause by passing simply for the sake of a swift, clean kill. Same with pigs. Put them down fast and hard or you'll regret it the very next time they visit. Ethics are all good and well. I don't want to make any animal suffer unnecessarily. There's also sound reason that tends to run the show where vermin are concerned.

[Harter66]

I live in farm/ranch country and hunt some of everything availible. No pigs here yet but plenty of coyotes and burrowing critters. I don't have a lot of use for lions or coyotes, having killed a handful of coyotes.

I just asked what entitles a table animal to a swifter more certain death than an "agricultural pest". By the above statements my wife would have been completely justified to have shot a couple of no driving flatlanders last fall. I bet if there were a tail bounty on your worthless varmints clean DRT kills would be essential .

I personally can't see how morally and/or ethically you can have it both ways, best effort for DRT vs so what if it takes a week to die. I do understand protecting the livelyhoods and take no issue w/it. If you found a cow w/an infection,a bad 1,laying down would you give it a swift end or leave it? I think maybe you would put it down.

[tommygirlMT]

Its not a matter of not caring at all about DRT --- more of a caring less --- I dont see this area as a black and white ethical dilema --- there is a wide spectrum from the black to the white with a tapering shade of gray inbetween

As I said --- with my 460 Steyr with my good loads I have made first shot cold barrel kills on yotes out to 800 or so --- if I was deer hunting and had that gun with me and my man to be my spotter and take the lazer range readings and the angle readings and help me judge the wind and give me info off my charts and my shot by shot records (just like a good golfer needs a good caddie a serious heavy caliber long range shooter needs a good spotter) like when we go yote hunting together I wouldnt hesitate to take that long of a shot on a deer if I had the shot and the conditions werent bad enough to futz the shot up --- now would I take a longer shot then that on a deer or still take the shot if the wind was just a little too gusty --- No I wouldnt better to wait for a better shot even if that waiting means days later or even next season --- but how about a yote that shows up at about 940 or so --- thats about an additional 3 feet of drop and up to two feet more of wind drift (for normal wind drift in our yote hunting spot with a normal wind day) compared to an 800 shot --- would I take the shot attempting to compensate for the additional drop and wind drift at the additional range --- Probably I would --- especially if I had already taken a short or two out towards the 800 mark that day so I knew how things were laying out under the present conditions --- Would I just lob rounds out there at a yote at 1200+ hoping to hit it --- No

Im willing to go further into the grey with the yotes --- but not all the way into the black --- dont like an attitude that doesnt acknowledge the tapered grey spectrum inbetween the black and the white and just thinks there is only black and white "and you cant have it both ways" in this particular moral/ethics question --- some moral/ethic questions have very little of a grey spectrum inbetween the black and the white --- others like this one have more --- and there is still grey in the spectrum on the game animals as well --- I just am willing to go a lot further into the grey with the varmits

[Harter66]

I digress. I apologize for any affront.

If one can confidently make a shot and the tools are up to the task w/w/o spotters then by all means use your tools and skills.

Let me qualify by saying it took years for me to except how many folks take only the breasts from their fowl,me,I eat a lot of wings, legs,and hearts.

Coyotes will die fine out to atleast 50yd from my duck blind,from 20 an oz of 1 or B steel makes a mell of a hess. A 357 does nicely to 125yd.

I was making the observation that many folks are willing to double or even triple their ethical/skill set range to kill some varmints/vermin,and wondered why one might have a double standard for their ethos.

To me its like driving a Chevy Volt or a Prius to work w/Green inc,then sneaking out to the storage lot for your F-450 ,toy hualer, and a blown Hemi 74' Cudda' on the weekend.:bigsmyl2:

Please except this as an observation not critique.

[MBTcustom]

I won't listen to anybody who talks about hunting ethics unless they have eaten an armadillo. (tastes like pork by the way) In my neck of the woods if you kill it you freakin' eat it!
I agree with Harter66, lots of people seem to have a higher standard for deer, but throw all that out of the window when dealing with "lesser creatures." They all suffer from a bad shot, but if you shoot anything just for the heck of it, you violate hunting ethics weather you make the shot or not. In many parts of the country, deer are just as big a nuisance as groundhogs, etc.
So, if I am confident in my ability to shoot a coyote at 600 yards, I dont think I owe a deer any more or less consideration than the "varmint".

[OnHoPr]

As I have read this thread commenting about ranges, ethics, and such, I haven't read anything about BOOLITS. I talking about their style, construction, and function, regardless of cast or j's. I do believe both cast and j's are ethical killers, given their specific purpose. One of the oldest projectiles is the RB which is very deadly out to the 100yd range while a annealed sst, ballistic tip, or berger can be deadly to a 1000yds. Two examples of for instance are 30years ago I shot a deer at 347 good paces. She dropped in her tracks then got up and ran with the rest of the group. My dad and I searched for her for hours, no blood and fluffy fresh fallen oak leaves. I found her a few days later a couple of hundred yards from where I shot her. The boolit went through her ribs in the back lung, liver section. The boolit was a 150gr sierra spitzer pushed in the high 2900's fps out of a 06. To find out later in experience the boolit is stout with a low BC, which really didn't work properly at the range I hit her at. Under 200yds with that boolit, not one deer has taken a step shot in the boiler room. Last year I shot a deer at 75yds with a sabot/240 Speer gold dot and 120gr of pdex select right behind the shoulder. The deer took off running. I reloaded went down to where it was standing and there was no blood or hair on SNOW. I started tracking it and after about 40yds leaves started showing up on top of the snow. Thirty more yards I got a few tiny drops of blood and it was laying about dead about another 30 or so yards. It was right at dusk and it ran into thick brush. I'm glad there was snow because there was no sign of a hit for 40 yds, it would of been a bite to find that one without snow or even to keep looking. This forum has Boolits in its name and I see there are soft points, hollow points, hard cast, RBs, big meplats, and such. I suppose the point I trying to make is boolits come in all styles for particular purposes and that should be considered for range and ethics.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Dave Anderson had an article on long range hunting in a recent issue of Guns Magazine. His views are quite similar to my own:

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS0711/?page=16

[TheGrimReaper]

Around here 100yards is a long shot. We manly hunt in the woods.

[mpmarty]

Here in Oregon it seems the larger the quarry the closer they are. Deer are seen at distances of a hundred yards or much more, Elk are found in reprod areas (second growth forest planted after clear cutting a section) at ranges from twenty to fifty yards, Bear are usually spotted even closer. In the woods I only carry my 45/70. In the mountains I'm usually packing my 7mm Mag or sometimes a 30/284 it all depends and usually in close cover I can sneak up closer. Greatest thrill was stalking up on a buck in a rainstorm with a 30:06 and finally shooting him from less than five yards.

[Rangefinder]

Harter66>> I just want to make sure there aren't any misunderstandings on our part. I know what you're saying. But... Here's the difference as I see it. Game for meat, I'm going OUT to hunt. I'll pass on an unsure shot because of ethics of the HUNT. Vermin are trouble--I jump them in the yard, the shop, under the truck, etc. I don't want them back. I prefer a DRT shot, but have no notion of letting them get away. A bad shot to keep them in range followed by a really fast follow-up to make them DRT is ethics in the book of vermin. It's not meat, it protection of the valuables. As to the 6-7-800 yard prairie dog shots... They're either a clean miss, or red mist. There is no in-between.

[Harter66]

See, swift death trumps deliberately letting it wander off w/its gangeenious stump and/or guts dragging.

[Boerrancher]

I see no issues at all with long range shots if you are capable of pulling them off. Several years ago, before Afghanistan, I shot a nice 10 pt buck at 807 yds according to the range finder. I was using my 300 win mag with 165 gr Sierra BTSP on top of 85.5 grains of AA3100. (yeah I know that is way over a max charge, but my rifle handles it and it shoots good) I had been shooting that rifle regularly form 100 to 1000 yards, it was a calm clear morning and I was sitting at the base of a lone tree so taking a shot was almost like being at the shooting bench. The bullet performed perfectly, as I found the jacket and a large chunk of the core under the hide on the opposite side. The deer only ran a small circle before it dropped.

That was then. Today I wouldn't even contemplate a shot at half that distance. Age has dimmed the eyes a bit, and injuries have weakened the body. I don't have the ability to become rock solid nor the hand-eye coordination to make a shot like that anymore and I know it. Bottom line is Know your limitations and weaknesses. This is the only way of being ethical when it comes to taking or not taking that long shot.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Gunslinger]

A friend of mine shot a wilderbeest in Africa, 280 yards away.... with iron sights!!!! Something I would never attempt personally! And then with iron sights!?! I asked him if he had lost his mind! "Not at all.... I just KNEW it could make it"!

[45-70 Chevroner]

I got out of the service in may of 1964 I had qualified Expert Marks-man with the 30 carbine and the 1903-A3 springfield maybe not such a feat as I have been shooting since I was 9 or 10. I had no hunting experience with big game, I had shot a lot of rabits and squirrels and made some really good shots out to 100 yards with a 22 rifle. I bought a tag for buck only, across the counter at one of the local gun shops in Prescott Arizona that same year, for the fall hunt. I was using a rechambered Mod. 95 Spanish Mauser in 308 Win. (I paid $35 dollars for it), little did I know of the dangers of that conversion. Now to the point of the story. I shot a nice 3 point muly the first day of a two week hunt. The buck was standing a good 300 yards across a revine 200 long steps to the bottom and 200 steps back up the other side to the dear. The rifle had a 4 power junior weaver scope 3/4" tube, I aimed a little over his shoulder and if he had not moved I would have missed him. He turned up hill at the shot and he was DRT. I just made the luckiest shot of my life, I hit him in the neck about three or four inches down from his head. That was my last shot at a deer over 200 yards, and most of them at less than a 100 yards.

[HighHook]

Lots of great stories here guys. Personally 200 yards is about max for me.

[M Hicks]

I feel the person squeezing the trigger limits the ability of a good rifle or pistol. For the rifles in my safe I wouldn't hesitate to take a 500 yard shot in the right conditions. If I was going to starve, most rules would go out the window.

[dragon813gt]

While I can group fairly well at 300 yards shots that long never present themselves where I live. The longest I get is maybe a little over 100 yards. I'm confident with irons at this distance and won't hesitate at a shot. I spend more time archery hunting. And while my crossbow will easily reach out to 50 yards I limit myself to 25 max. They jump the string at this distance. Last thing I want is to have a deer suffer because my initially well placed shot ended up off target because it was trying to get away.


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[375RUGER]

Threads been around the block.
318 yds oryx with my user name cartridge. I had been shooting to 400yds with it prior to this hunt.

[Jtarm]

Depends on game, weapon, shooter. Assuming whitetail deer with a scoped bolt action around 3000 FPS, the average hunter (who only shoots off of a bench) has no business shooting over 200 yards and then only from a solid rest.
I assume there are no average hunters, here, though.
I've become a firm believer in sighting in from field positions

[Raygun]

Remington 700 fluted 26" barrel in 223. Two of us in the deer stand with walkie talkies to communicate with other hunters on the lease. An accurate rangefinder. Three way conversation to discuss how much holdover. One turkey at 479 yards. Sight placement was on the neck just where the head connects. Bird down with a perfect body shot just below the neck. This is the only deliberate shot I ever made with a spotter and advice form others.

If it had been a deer, I would have passed on the shot because of the caliber and distance combination. I killed 4 deer in 2 days with that same rifle. All were shot high on the shoulder where the spine meets the neck and all under 60 yards. All went down on the spot they were shot. I was shooting Remington 55gr PSP.

As a general rule, I never take a shot on game animals past 300 yards.

[scb]

Varies acording to personal ability. and equipment.
A shot I'd take with the .338 Edge I wouldn't even consider with a 300 Whisper.

[MBTcustom]

I guess the tricky part is that you never know what is going to happen at long ranges. Case in point, a few years ago (OK it was 10) I was hunting with a buddy. We waited all morning and got bored, so we went to walking. we came to the edge of a large field. He commenced to telling me how there are no deer here, and we aught to go on home. I told him that I clearly see three does on the hill opposite the field. He squinted and said "Well yeah, but there's no way to sneak up on them". I informed him that I thought I could make that shot from right here. What do you say, bout 300 yards? he nodded.
I cranked my Bushnell Elite up to max power (awesome scope) and shouldered my Tikka T3 (awesome rifle) in 30-06.
It was one of those moments that defies logic. I had practiced a lot shooting off hand at 100 yards, but my groups were just so-so, but on this day the added adrenaline and tunnel vision made me about as steady as if I were on sandbags. There was no "drifting" where I had to sweep the crosshairs here and there, they were just right where they needed to be and solid as a rock. I touched off the shot and saw the doe do the classic jump-kick and they started running strait towards us. When they got about 100 yards away, he opened up on them and fired 4 shots without ever connecting. When he started shooting they turned to our right and headed towards a small thicket in the field (now before you bust on me for not using that thicket as cover, it was about the same distance from the deer's original position) and I could clearly see blood running down both front legs on that doe. He high fived me for making the longest off-hand shot he had ever witnessed, and we decided to go back to the house for a sandwich so that the deer could expire in piece.
To make a long story short, we searched that fiald and the hill that they started out on for hours and never found the deer. We had a good blood trail, and we followed it for about 600 yards, but then it just stopped.
3 months later he called me up and informed me that he found my deer. He told me that the deer had run up over the hill on the other side of the field, through the woods behind that, and into the back yard of a friend who was practicing with his bow. The story is, that the deer tottered out right between him and the target he was shooting, so all he had to do was finish it off with an arrow. He said that the deer had totally bled out and probably would have died within 20 yards of where it was finished anyway.
I told my buddy that was the most amazingly disappointing story I had ever heard, but I had to know where the shot had landed because I was confident that I had put it right where it was supposed to go. He said it was perfect, right behind the front shoulder, but the entrance and exit holes were about the size of a pencil, ie the bullet didn't expand.
I could write a pretty thick book about what I learned from that one shot, but here are a few of the highlights:
1. Don't trust anybody's reloads, not even Winchester's (I was using cheap Wal-Mart ammo because I had shot up all of my reloads the day before)
2. Don't shoot up all your reloads the day of the hunt practicing
3. Practicing may make you a good shot, but that don't mean squat if the bullet doesn't perform when it gets there
4. Jacketed bullets need a lot of speed to make an effective kill, therefore use due diligence to select a bullet that will open correctly if it is shot at long distance.
5. If the dad-blamed deer has already run 200 yards, and turns broadside to you at 100, keep shootin!
6. If you can't find your deer, call all your buddies (even if they live half a mole away) and ask if they have seen your deer! LOL!!!

[MT Gianni]

One answer to why you take the shot is this. I was hunting antelope in a stubble field. I bellycrawled and shot a doe with my daypack for a rest. The cartridge was 308 in a BLR. We paced that shot @ 367 yards. The only reason that I shot then was it was a lone doe and she had just stood up. The crawl started over 800 yards from the loper.

[Ohio Rusty]

I have a really accurate Savage Anshutz .22 bolt action rifle. Many years ago me and an acquaintance were out in the woods squirrel hunting with it. I didn't see any squirrels, but saw a crow way far away on a phone line. He looked like a black dot. I dialed the scope in to 9X, held high and squeezed off the shot. That crow fell from the wire like a lead brick !! We paced it off down the road and it was approximately 250 yards.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[prs]

70 yards. 16ga with 1oz #7nickel plated shot, imp cyl bore. Ruffed grouse hen wounded by my first shot. I hate feediing coyotes.

prs

[reloader28]

We have our own 1000yd range and use it alot.

My best would be a doe running at 550yds. One shot in the pumper.
Or a running bull elk at 500yds. Two shots in the lungs 5 inches apart.
My brothers best is a doe at 955yds.
One friend this year was 1200yd and another friend was 790yds.
I did shoot a running fox at 600yd once.

But, not everyone can practice at those ranges like we can.

[rockrat]

For me, it would all depend on the caliber and gun I was hunting with, along with the ammo. If, say, using my 30-06 with a good bullet, say a Nosler Partition, probably 600yds. Our range goes to 550 on the gongs and I shoot out that far all the time. My 264wm maybe a bit farther. I never have had to shoot so far though, about 200yds so far. Did have an opportunaty to shoot an Elk @ 450 yds, but with the gun I had, I didn't feel comfortable shooting that far, so the other guys got their Elk and i got to watch.

[gtgeorge]

The longest shot I attempted was on a 211 # Buck 3 years ago at (325 yads Paced off and google earth measured) with a 7mm rem mag sighted at 175. I hit 3" lower than intended but was over within 40 yards. My ethical limit would be @ 350 since that is the farthest I have shot but if I was starving, it's an obvious choice to send it. Can't hit what you don't shoot at.

[Freischütz]

As others have said, it depends on your ability and the bullet's trajectory. My longest shot on a moose was 75 yds. The front sight bead covers too much animal at longer ranges. My motto is – if you have to think about it, it's too far.

[chief3]

I have seen some great long shots made and far more shots either missed or wounded. I am with Freischutz, If you have to think about it, it's too far.
I have never taken a shot on game at more than 200 yds. but thats just my limit.

[1Shirt]

Ability, knowledge of rifle/blt/expansion, experiance, judgement, etc.etc.etc. They all play into the equation, but don't forget the element of LUCK! My dad always said "its better to be lucky than smart!" I was lucky the day that I shot a big 4x4 muley with a 58 roundball, with a kit built CVA rifle on the run crossing at a little over 100 yds. The ball hit him almost dead center between the eye and the ear. Now realisticly with open sights, and a running deer going full tilt at over 100 yds I should never have pulled the trigger on a muzzleloader. I don't remember even seeing sights, but I do remember leading the deer. I was lucky that day, the deer was unlucky. 3" higher, or 4 so inches lower it would have been a complete miss. 2-3 inches lower I would have shot the jaw off. My only excuse for shooting, was that I had been shooting many many doves that year, and I swung thru that buck like I was shooting a shotgun, and the shot felt good!
1Shirt!

[eck0313]

I killed a groundhog at a laser rangefinder verified 332 yards; single shot from my .223 bolt action sporter. I'm probably more proud of the shot I made on a moving skunk with my .222 at approx 200 about 10 years prior. The county I was hunting in had a rabies outbreak, and since it was mid-afternoon, I was pretty sure the skunk was sick.

I do miss hunting groundhogs ...

[PULSARNC]

Longest shot at a deer has been 350 yards which I had to track for about 20 yards Learned my lesson from that so i tend to try to keep the range down to 300 or less . truth be told I kill 90% of my deer at 150 yards or less. Longest 1 shot kill on a coyote has been at 400 yards .but then again I didnt see a downside in taking a chance on a varmint.

[Doc65]

460 yards, .270 Win Blacktail forked-horn in western Oregon coastal range, in that timber about the only way you reach out that far is logging landing to landing or landing to ridge line(unless you happen to know a farmer with a bunch of acreage) I estimated the range @ 400 & took the spine out mid way down his neck. 2 Decades later while driving granddad around & checking the sights on his muzzle loader(much shorter 100 yds) On a lark I grabbed the laser rangefinder out of the truck * checked it to find 460 with a 3* down angle.

[o6Patient]

When I was a bit younger we hunted white tail on the RR in New Brunswick up to and beyond "long range".
I shot a couple at very long range, one hanging over my left shoulder. The second wasn't big enough to justify
the shot and it took a day to find him. Even A 30-06 HAS ITS LIMITATIONS (...can't believe I said it) I would not
have taken that shot now. All things being equal I wouldn't take a shot much over 400 yrds now.

[hermans]

Two years ago on a Kudu(large antelope found in Southern Africa)hunt, I took a large female with my 7x64 Brenneke Mauser which is similar to the 280 Rem, at 385 meters. A clean neck shot, one shot kill. I was taking dead rest, and there was no wind to speak of. The boolit was a 162gr Hornady loaded up to 2850 ft/sec.
I would think twice before doing it again at that range......

[reloader28]

My middle daughter beat me yesterday. She did her personal longest shot this fall and dropped a nice buck with my 243 at a touch over 400, which squeaked her just past her younger sister.
Yesterday she dumped her first ever cow elk at 823yds using my brothers STW aka "Stuart Little".

[rexherring]

Mostly I try and get closer to the critter. To me that's part of the hunt but, I did take a small white tail buck at 425 yds once with my 6mm Remington 700ADL. I did know how and where it shot and had used it on prairie dogs at that distance before.

[montana_charlie]

Yesterday she dumped her first ever cow elk at 823yds using my brothers STW aka "Stuart Little".
160 grain 7mm bullet at 823 yards ... on a cow elk.
How many shots did it take to hit the cow, and how many times did she have to hit it to kill it?

CM

[Got-R-Did]

My best and most ethical shot to date isn't very impressive by most contributor's shot to date in this thread. I took an offhand shot at 193 yds with my .308 Win chambered PSS/LTR at near last light with my scope set at 4.5X, dead calm and steady as strapped into my shooting jacket on the range. Bang/Flop and the Doe was meat in the freezer. I am a capable competitive shooter with consistent scores in the low/mid 90s with iron sighted Service Rifles in Offhand with high X-counts on paper. I felt I was within my limitations and took the shot with confidence. I feel I could take much longer shots at higher magnification with the same rifle under ideal conditions on live game, but I simply have not had the opportunity in our topography here in KY.
Got-R-Did.

[reloader28]

Charlie. We have our own 1000yd shooting range, so practice is NOT a problem. The rifle is set up with a Shepard scope also, so you can see very good.

She got the elk on the first shot. Bullet went in by the back rib, went clear thru the chest cavity and was lodged against the hide by the off shoulder. The bullet was a 162gr Hornady A-max and after going thru almost 2 1/2ft of elk, it was one of the most perfect mushrooms I've ever seen. Final weight was 147gr. I dont have a picture of the bullet. He wouldnt let her keep it cause its the one and only bullet from that gun hes ever recovered. That thing is a cannon.:-D

[dakotashooter2]

200 for me... If it's any farther I just get closer................. Anything beyond 400 is more a test of shooting skills than hunting skills.

[Elkins45]

My longest shot ever was this fall. It was a measured 349 yards with a 90 grain Hornady GMX from a 257 Weatherby. The deer in question was grazing on the next ridge over and was back stopped by a grassy hillside. The shot was taken just at dusk from a rock solid rest.

In a bit of bad luck I managed to hit the humerus bone on both sides, ruining some meat, but it was a clean kill and she dropped just a few feet from where she was standing.

[gkainz]

I spent a few hours on the 1000yd line with my Garand and 1/2moa peep sites that (back then) I was pretty comfortable and confident with my ability to hit what I was aiming at. However, the one piece of the puzzle that's not been talked (much) about is, besides knowing your ballistics, how many know what your retained energy of your round is once it gets way out there? A lot of stories of 4,6 or 800 yd kills ... so anecdotal evidence says there's "enough to kill" but there's a few stories here that prove out some calibers just don't retain enough energy that far down-range for a solid kill.

However, given the "make the kill or starve" scenario ... I think I would do everything in my power to stalk as close as possible.

[HABCAN]

Antelope, trotting with does @ later measured 565 yds., no wind, shooting prone with spotter, very experienced team with time to discuss 'hold', scoped 7x57 140 gr. Sierra BT, Win. 70, DRT. Survival situation would change the ethics.

[390ish]

On a ground hog in one shot, 504 yards using an FN Special Police Rifle chambered in 308. Shot was off a backpack, a heavy backpack. Offhand, best shot I ever made was on a groundhog at about 65 yards with a Winchester Crazy Horse commerative in 38-55, open sights Big game, I shot an elk in the Sange de Cristo mountains with a Steyr Mannlicher mdle 1956 in 30-06. Was multiple off hand shots and he was a long ways off. This was pre-laser days and on an ridge opposite a seep from where I was located. I have no idea how far away he was, but there was daylight between the crosshairs and his back. He and his buddies were way out in the open and I anchored the bull quickly, then took him out.

[jonk]

Again, there's just too many variables to give one answer. If I'm starving, i'm taking any shot I get, UNLESS I only have one bullet left; in which case I might tighten the belt and wait for one at least reasonably good.

If I have a laser rangefinder, which I don't normally carry afield (Ohio only permits muzzleloaders, and for that 100 yards is my max, and I can estimate that ok) AND have shot the gun at ranges out to a thousand yards, AND have a bench rest, AND know the bullet drop and scope adjustments, AND there is no wind, well that would be about my max. On the other hand, no range finder, I'm not going to go much above what I'd consider 200 yards, as my ability to accurately estimate distance falls off beyond, and that is the max range I normally shoot at.

All in all, I would say for the average shooter shooting offhand or with quick rest on a tree or what not, with a factory gun, 200 would be about the max that is ethical IF they are familiar with the gun and local conditions are optimal.

[JeffinNZ]

.177 cal air rifle, 657 yards on a bull moose, taken whilst standing up in a canoe in the embrace of a hot woman.

[Doughty]

.177 cal air rifle, 657 yards on a bull moose, taken whilst standing up in a canoe in the embrace of a hot woman.

Yeah, all that MIGHT have an affect or effect, but what's important is, was the canoe on a river or was it on a lake?

[grampa243]

i practice with my 243win to 400yard. but i would have to say if i was down to my last round. i would want to be very sure. and maybe not even use a gun.

i vote ; Varies according to personal ability.

as far as hunting not starving always make sure it's dead.

[Kull]

Well since it's a multiple choice poll, and because of the way it's worded, I picked 600 yards and personal ability.

If I'm going to starve I would take any shot I can get. Real world I would like to think anyone that shots medium to long range knows what they're capably of, and what their rifle is capable of. That should be your personal limit.

In this area you'll likely never see a 400 yard shot, or even a 300. 75-150 is more realistic. Most of the deer I've shot or seen shot were jumped walking through the timber or other surprise meeting type situations.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Have made 200 yard shots on bunnys but that about it.
I much pefer to "see the whites of the eyes" before the shot. (thats with the naked eye)
Call it being a hunter not a shooter. Just my POV. The animal deserves the chance to outsmart us.

[CML]

As others have said, if starving I'd take a stab out to about 800yds. Not starving and trying to be ethical, 400yds. In my experience I can about pick up any rifle and make an educated drop and wind guess and hit with minuet of whitetail kill zone accuracy out to 400.

[Bullshop]

As others have said, if starving I'd take a stab out to about 800yds. Not starving and trying to be ethical, 400yds. In my experience I can about pick up any rifle and make an educated drop and wind guess and hit with minuet of whitetail kill zone accuracy out to 400.
I dont quite understand your statment. Do you mean to pick up any rifle you find lying about randomly or are you speaking specificly of any of your rifles?
I think if I take someone elses rifle that I do not know what it is zeroed for I may not be able to hit very much at all at any distance.
For instance if I handed you my rifle and you tried to hit at the 400 yards you mention I doubt you would have much success. I sight my rifles differently than most. If using a duplex reticuel I use a three point sighting where the center cross hair would be very low at other than its zero which is normaly between 350 and 400 yaerd depending on the cartridge. I sight in using the duplex as three distinct aiming points each with a different zero something like 100 yards for the top duplex, 350 to 400 for the cross hair, and 500 to 550 for the bottom duplex.
Point is if you picked up my rifle sighted in thusly you would completely miss a 400 yard shot if you didnt know what I just told you. It all depends on what range the rifle is zeroed for and if you know what that zero is.

[Bullshop]

If I take an extreemly long range shot and kill my game cleanly with one shot was it an ethicle shot?
If I take an extreemly short range shot and wound and loose my game was it an ethicle shot?

[TheCelt]

So my question is: What is the longest shot you would consider making on a whitetail deer or similar sized critter if your back was against the wall? Hypothetically, lets say if you miss you starve and if you make the shot, it goes in the record books.
This is with your best rifle that you own, shooting jacketed or cast.

Don't give a damn about the record books but if I'm OK on supplies I'll shoot to 200 yds. I figure that's my "100% sure they're hit hard" range. If it's a matter of me or mine starving the range is only limited by the cartridge I'm shooting. I'd try 750 with the 308 and 180 gr partitions if I had to.

[40Super]

I had for several years gone out to Montana praire dogg'in and had a Rem700 VLS in .243 and a Rem 700 VSSF in .22-250, plus a Ruger K77/22 target/comp rifle. I had gotten pretty good at long shots(p-dog at 372yrds with the .22lr, 606yrds with the .22-250, and 886yrds with the .243). I used the .243(85gr Sierra gameking bullet) for mule deer in Wyoming, where I hunted(south end of the Bighorns) there was long valleys and ridges I could go up high and glass 1/2mile from end to end. I was in prone with a bipod and 6-24x -42mm scope watching a 4x5 muley feeding at about 500yrds angling toward me. I waited and just glassed for 15-20 min for anything else, lost track of the 4x5. Using the scope on 20x I finally spotted the nose, eye, and some of the antler of the buck bedded down in the brush, looked closer than where I last saw him. After repositioning for a better view I could see the ear and upper neck of it, guesstimated range at 375yrds and put the crosshair 1 inch back from the base of the ear and squeezed. The buck jumped up and bounded a bit downhill and stopped , shaking it's head and looking around. I knew I underestimated the range(my common habit) so I held about even with the top of it back,shot . It slammed sideways and down like it got hit with a sledge. Later, with my rangefinder, I had 475yrd to the base of ridge I was at. The first shot made a tunnel through its hair on the neck. Perfect shot had I known the range and aimed the 3 inches higher it required.
With that shot I knew a miss wasn't going to injure and a hit would kill, otherwise not a shot I would have taken.

[James2]

Out West we don't hunt whitetails. It is mule deer. A little larger perhaps? I have no qualms at all shooting 350 yards at a mulie. If the deer is not moving, he's mine. No problem whatsoever hitting a deer up to that range.

I don't like to shoot at moving deer over 100 yards. Well, depends on how fast it is moving. When the target is moving it is a different game.

I have made clean kills up to 600 yards. I only take those kind of shots if I have plenty of time to calculate the range and wind and get firmly implanted for the shot. No justification for taking a quick shot at those ranges.

[bcp477]

Varies according to ability and equipment, certainly. Age is a factor, as well, that should figure into the ability part, IMO.

For myself, I have always set a maximum limit of 250 yards. Even when young, I adhered to this rule. My longest shot on game was about 235 yards - a decent sized Elk (made the kill). That was years ago. Now, I wouldn't go beyond 150 yards. Stalking to get close was always more fun to me than the actual kill, anyway.

But, I don't begrudge anyone taking a longer shot, as long as he/she is up to it and using the right equipment.

[Lloyd Smale]

I chuckle a bit at posts like this. You get guys who cant shoot or dont want to put in the time to learn to shoot that claim its unethical to shoot past 300 yards. Same guys are usually the ones that bash mag rifles again because there not wiling to put in the time to master one. I guess those guys should stick to 200 yard shooting but sure shouldnt be pushing there idea of ethics on someone who can do it. We shoot alot of deer in farm fields. Most at between 300 and 500 yards. Ive probably shot at least 500 of them between those ranges. Have I lost a deer or two? Yes. I lost a total of 6 in the 10 years ive been doing this with probably an average of 75 deer a year. thing is 5 out of those 6 were shot at under 300 yards. 3 i know about for sure were hit well with barnes bullets that didnt open. 2 i have no excuse for. Ill say this in my defense though show me someone thats shot upwards or 800 deer in there life and hasnt lost a couple. ### happens.

Funny thing is these guys that preach ethics and say that your almost criminal if you dont drop a deer in its tracks are usually the same guys that will post a couple days later that there out shooting praried dogs at 300 yards which is alot harder target to hit at 300 then any deer is at 500. they dont get all worked up when some prarie dog crawls off because of a bad hit. I ask whats the differnce. there both living creatures. If i posted that the ethical limit for shooting pds should be 200 yards id get laughed off the forum. What it comes down to in most cases (not all) is men are macho. they cant stand someone that can do something they cant. So they throw in the ethics card and the sad thing is the anti hunters read this stuff and see one hunter calling anothers methods unethical and use that as ammo to ban hunting altogether. As long as what your doing is legal in my books its ethical and i have no right to critisize you for doing it.

[badbob454]

330 meters or 360.892 yards i can hit a 8x10 paper every time . that is roughly the size of a whitetails boiler-room , so i feel i could stretch it to another 40 yards .. , i did this with a 3-12 scoped 300 win mag ., now open sighted with a sks russian 400 yards is a little too far i shoot inside a 2foot circle with handloads or tulamo 154gr sp jword bullet , this is my maximum for the sks and my 300 win mag .... im sure i can hit a deer sized target at 500 yards, with either most times , but where . ? i havnt the muscle control to hold any more steady hell im old , well kinda , 59 and counting and i wont starve if i dont kill him i have a debitcard ... he he

[jonp]

You guys need to shoot one of these guns and then you can argue about long range hunting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2EqO1qbrQ

[Lizard333]

Yep. 1103 yards. Incredible. Insane.

[MOcaster]

I think that is cheating. They don't even have to know proper trigger pull. They might as well use a drone. But a 1103 shot is still pretty impressive, even if it is by a computer.

[Kull]

You guys need to shoot one of these guns and then you can argue about long range hunting.

Nice bit of tech for sure. Now if it can just call the wind and was smaller.

[SciFiJim]

I looked up the price on one of those things. $22,500!!!! Wow!


I think I will stick with my $150 Mauser and iron sights.

[jonp]

How many blackhawks can I buy with $22k? Hmmm. I know what I would do.

[dunnie]

Hello guys. I just ran across this thread and thought I would post a magnificent shot my dad performed about 30 years or so ago. He was hunting open fields between two ridges in central Pa. He was sitting in a corner of one of the fields with a spotter. The spotter saw a doe at what he estimated at about 600 to 650 yards in the field diagonally across from him. My dad had a 270 savage with a 26" barrel. Gun was glass embedded and floated with a Redfield scope that he added 4 extra crosshairs to. He hand reloads his shells to the point that the bolt gets a little snug after a shot. Anyway, he lays the last crosshair (that’s about 575 yards) at the top of her back and squeezed off a round. The spotter said he shot under her belly. At that distance the doe didn’t even move. I guess it was confused because nothing was around it. Dad aimed about a foot over her back and squeezed off another. The deer hunched a bit and stepped into the woods. They lost sight of it so they figured it was a miss. About 30 minutes later the spotter decided to head back to camp and decided to walk in the direction of the deer. When the spotter got to the spot where the deer was last seen, he walked up into the woods about fifteen feet and there it was, dead. Heart shot. The spotter stepped the shot at just 700 yards. Sorry for the long post but I thought it was worthy of telling. This was a once in a life time shot. Meat on the table that day. Thanks for reading.

[waksupi]

I consider that irresponsible.

[chirodr1]

This is very dependent on the shooter and his equipment. I would classify my son as an expert marksman and he has killed deer, and antelope at over 1,000 yards. But he builds his own rifles that will shoot less than 1/2" groups at 100 yards and he uses high dollar scopes, and range finders. The most important thing is he regularly shoots at those ranges and knows the trajectory of his ammunition and knows the affect of wind on the flight of his bullets.

[Smoke4320]

437 yds .ranged .within 1 hr after shot.
now I had a bar around the stand for a steady rest and a 4,5 x14 leupold scope
just week before done 400 & 500 yd drops and conditions were nearly the same
otherwise would not have taken the shot

[John Boy]

What is an ethical range limit for an expert marksman?
Disregarding the word 'ethical', I am primarily a BPCR shooter with single shot rifles and no scopes - use vernier sights.
For competition and pleasure, I regularly shoot:
* Silhouette targets at 200-300-400-500 meters
* Paper targets at 700-600-900-1000yds and have no problems placing a 500+ grain bullet in a 10" center X at 1000yds
Longest white tail deer hunting shot with a scope - 286yds

[Rattus58]

425 yards on an antelope doe with a Remington 700 in .270 Winchester. Dead calm and silhouetted on top of a hill in the Oglala National Grasslands. I took one shot.

350 yards on a moving buck someone had shot in the foot, using a .308 Winchester Savage 99 with a Weaver K3W scope. I took this shot because I felt obligated to try. This took more than one shot. Four, if I remember, two hits through the ribcage.

My mantra is no one has a 400 yard rifle until they have shot it at 400 yards, or a 200 yard rifle until they have shot it at 200 yards.

The first question I ask if the deer is over 200 yards is "Is it going to come closer?" Second question is "Can I get any closer?"I thought the first question one asks oneself with a siloueted deer on a hill is... "Is there anyone on the other side of that hill?"

[Teddy (punchie)]

I didn't read all post but for me safety is first. Where are we hunting? Where are the animals(farm), cars, houses, other hunters???? After all of that, where is the animal I wish to harvest? Posted ground, place we are aloud to push but not shoot, open to harvest but not to gut? How far of a drag and where to get it out. Last is distance. For me is it running? Standing? in the woods, field, ticket, all play a very fast shoot or don't shoot. I do miss deer but not too often. Farthest running shot 150 yds. about half speed doe, in woods, going up a hill over looking a hollow, one shot. Farthest full speed shot 85 yds. crossing a pipeline, one shot. Farthest standing shot, 300 yds. just under 200 lbs dressed large deer (some would say huge) though lungs, he went down to buddies shot him 4 more times, 30-06, 8mm. He fell at 500 yds after the lung shot, and traveled some 350 yds after last shot was fired. I would say the average hunter can shoot about 50-80 yds on a moving deer, we push a lot of deer. Standing about 100 - 150 yds. , most don't sight in or shoot enough to shot any farther.
Safety is what we watch for, then we look a distance, so that is a hard question to answer. For the guys I hunt with, I would trust most that shoot well (maybe 25%) out to about 300 yds. I hunt with an average of 20 different guys in our two week deer season.

[plainsman456]

My longest was 320 with a rest.

But i have practiced longer should it come to pass.

[roberto mervicini]

Personally I never ad to take a shoot outside 125 yrd. If condition will arise I would feel comfortable with 2 of my rifles (.300win mag & 7mm rem mag ) up to 400 yrd. using some rest because I had the opportunity to practice successfully up to that distance.
My son Eric kill a moose at 1425 feet (GPS measured ) with a .300 WSM.

[johntkd]

good question,
I normally hunt with my old deer getter a 30/30 marlin loaded with a factory remington 170 gr bullet and have knocked deer 10 feet to the side dead over and over again at 225 yards shooting from a small hill into a stand of pines, that being said I have passed on 300 yard shots as many times with that rifle, balistically it can make the shot and kill in Northern Michigan woods there are just too many variables and i dont practice past 250 with that gun, that being said my 30/06 450 yards no problem at all. BUT I would hesitate even with that rifle shooting ridge to ridge even 200 yards as you get some extreme current changes, updrafts etc shooting over valleys, most times you dont even see or notice them unless you have someone flying a kite in them valleys which you should try sometime for grins and giggles. I also have a magnum CVA 50 cal bolt action muzzleloader I hunt deer with in Michigan during our december muzzleloader hunt i cast my own 310 gr maxis and put 90 gr pyrodex rs under it and its deadly accurate to 150 ( 1 3/4 inch groups) even though the gun is capable of further shots than that and has plenty of power I wont shoot past 150 with it.and yes it is scope equipped and most of my shots have actually been 80 yds incidently I have never ever recovered a bullet in any deer i have shot they have all blown thru entering caliber size and leaving big exit holes, and without doubt the 30/30 leaves the biggest exit

[awhiteha]

About 150 yards and on down with rest. W/out about 75 yards if I am not breathing hard. If I am panting and out of breath, I would shoot it, as long as my eyes could see, with cold hard stare and watch it walk off (same thing, if I gotta pack the meat a long ways).

[DougGuy]

340yds walked off after the shot. Sitting crammed very steadily in the front seat of a vehicle, one foot on the dash, one knee in the steering wheel, elbow hung over the window sill, took a turkey in an alfalfa field with a 180gr plain base out of a heavily worked over 70s Ruger M77 in .308 caliber. Point of aim was 1" below his beard, boolit hit 1 1/4" below and 3/8" off center, went right through his neck cavity above the breast, knocked one single feather off the back and he dropped where he was standing.

Zeroed at 200yds, the crosshairs were probably up in the treeline, and the hold over was the bottom of the traingular part where the crosshairs go from thin to thick. The bird was all but covered by the thick reticle, the only thing I could see was his shoulders on each side, and the tip of his beak peeking out on the right side when I squeezed off the shot.

I had probably 5mins to set up the shot and get comfortable. The bird was pecking at the ground, looking up, pecking, looking up, about every 5th time he looked up, he would stretch out fully vertical and take a long slow look around. I said under my breath, I need that bird looking at me when he does that. It was all I could do to get situated where my heartbeat didn't rhythmically upset the point of aim, but I settled in and was able to hold on him like I was welded to the truck. I already had my holdover figured out, and was holding just off to his left, so when he did stand up and stretch out the second time, he was facing me perfectly so all I had to do was move the rifle to the side and cover him with the crosshair post. Perfectly executed shot.. I have made some amazing crazy shots on deer and groundhogs, but that one took the cake and icing too. 340yds and hit within 1/2" of point of aim.

[MaryB]

Deer are shotgun slug only where I live, Longest I would try is 125 yards, longest actual shot was 120 yards on a big doe. On prairie dogs 500 or so with my 223

[Pakprotector]

Youse powder guys live at substantial range capability. I am quite comfortable exterminating squirrels at ranges up to 100 yards with a 25 cal pellet gun. This when I am well practiced at that range, and I have a very good estimate of the range. The usual is between 20 and 60 yards, and at those ranges I can put all the rounds into an adequately small group. When running cast( 2x mass, 3x the BC ), I'd have no issue with bigger critters...and I do recall that I am in no way over-gunned( most ov youse PB guys put more energy into the propellant gas than I have to try putting behind the boolit ).
cheers,
Douglas

[357maximum]

Varies acording to personal ability ---- I chose that one.

The bullet/boolit has to land "SOMEWHERE" it is up to the individual as to what he KNOWS he can do. Why should any of us think we have the ability/duty to tell the next feller what he/she should be doing? I have shot one whitetail at 242 yards with a "pistol" in 357Max and although I "KNEW" I would succeed as I feathered the trigger...I would not have wanted him to be 20 yards farther out either....it was at the very edge of my skill/comfort zone with that tool at that time. Another time I killed an english sparrow at 329 yards with a 223 at that time I could have made that shot 99 times out of 100....which one was more ethical? Most my shots @ deer are from a fixed position....the ranges vary but most are about 100 yards on average.....some more some considerably less.



As far as a SHTF/survival situation....all bets would be off and I too would put my trapping past to work for me.......I would not walk too close to my basecamp iffin I were you.......the menu just got alot bigger. :lol:

[Outpost75]

While I have shot varmints with an accurate bolt rifle at over 300 yards, it is seldom necessary or ethical to take shots at big game from that far. I have never met a professional guide who would let a client take such a shot, unless the client was well known to the PH and there was no doubt of the hunter's ability.

A good general rule is that if the vital area of the animal you intend to shoot subtends less than 1 mil, or 1/1000th of the range, i.e. 3.6" at 100 yards, 7.2" at 200 yards, etc., then you should shoot from either prone or using an improvised rest. If the range or environmental conditions are such that you cannot be assured of hitting a target subtending 1 mil, you should not take the shot, unless your target is hostile AND has YOU under fire, in which case all bets are off.

The 1 mil rule is very well proven in over a century of military use and works with anything up to an M119A1 105mm light towed howitzer, which has an effective combat range of about 10,000 meters.
http://www.army.mil/factfiles/equipment/indirect/m119.html

[GabbyM]

About 550 yards off hand. 30-06 with 180 grain. Target was a deer with arrow stuck into it. Not my arrow. Quartering away at a full run. Shoot took out most of the near side rib cage. Blew out both lungs and tumbled the 240 pound dressed weight buck. 30-06 is enough gun for white tails lol. Rifle was an 03 Springfield. One shot one kill.

[Digital Dan]

You guys need to shoot one of these guns and then you can argue about long range hunting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2EqO1qbrQ

Not impressed. Took out the crew of a 12.7mm gun a few decades back at about 1,000 meters. No sights. Is it cheating to use a minigun? Jacketed bullets? Tracers? I dunno if it was ethical but I liked the way it turned out.

[Boyscout]

I gun hunt the way I bow hunt I just put on hunter orange and change the weapon. So far my farthest shot ever has been 70 yards with open sights on a Remington 870 with Brenneke KO Sabots, broadside on a slow walk. If I had had my Marlin XL7 30/06 and j-bullets I would probably have to limit myself to 200 yards as I have never hunted with it. With cast, it would be 100 yards. It's all personal and I prefer to err on the side of caution when I hunt.

[longranger]

524 yds, practice,practice practice, then when you think you have it down practice some more. .338-06 250 gr.Sierra Game King. 50grs. Varget.

[jethunter]

I think it's unethical to start threads about "What's your longest ethical shot" and "bear defense". The same newb topics show up every week on every hunting and shooting forum world wide.... and the same players get their underwear bunched up over it.

This topic is like the weather, everyone talks about it but nobody ever fixes it. LOL

[jethunter]

524 yds, practice,practice practice, then when you think you have it down practice some more. .338-06 250 gr.Sierra Game King. 50grs. Varget.

Is it a buck or a doe?

edit, oops, i see the horns now, it's a buck

[bbwhais]

While stationed in central Texas at the Great Place I was fortunate to be able to shoot at large quanitys of farrel hog between trips to the great sand box. I value hogs somewhere between rats and flees. The longest shot was taken on a ranch out side of Round Rock with a Ruger M77 MKII sporter rifle in .30-06. The bullet was a Barnes 165gn Triple Shock pushed with 57.5 gns of IMR4350. The bullet passed through the on side shoulder and exited just behind the offside shoulder. The exit wound was about the size of a dime. The 250 lb hog just rolled on it side and never moved again. I took my position on my GPS then hiked to the hog and took another position. 475 meters +- 3 meters.

[longranger]

Is it a buck or a doe?

edit, oops, i see the horns now, it's a buck

A very old buck, horns nearly worn down to nothing, very small cheek patches, nary a tooth in his head,fat and sweet.

[jonp]

This is very dependent on the shooter and his equipment. I would classify my son as an expert marksman and he has killed deer, and antelope at over 1,000 yards. But he builds his own rifles that will shoot less than 1/2" groups at 100 yards and he uses high dollar scopes, and range finders. The most important thing is he regularly shoots at those ranges and knows the trajectory of his ammunition and knows the affect of wind on the flight of his bullets.
I would classify that as target practice not hunting. Nice shooting though.

[jonp]

Not impressed. Took out the crew of a 12.7mm gun a few decades back at about 1,000 meters. No sights. Is it cheating to use a minigun? Jacketed bullets? Tracers? I dunno if it was ethical but I liked the way it turned out.

Tongue in Cheek post if you didn't get it. This is not hunting by any stretch of the imagination although the guys doing the target practice on live animals seem to be impressed with each other

[1911cherry]

In the employment of good ole Uncle Sam I routinely shot E -types out to 800 meters, that being said-aint no way I am dragging a deer or hog that far. I like to get close to my target, 200 yards or less for me.

[Pinsnscrews]

This is with your best rifle that you own, shooting jacketed or cast

Since I do not currently have a load worked up as a hunting load for my Best Rifle, I will say 200 yards with the loads and scope I currently have for my .308

Maybe down the road, and scope funds build up, and I work up some hunting loads for my 6.5, 600 yards without a thought if the conditions are right. I know the round is capable of taking Deer out to 1000, but I really don't feel that confident in my Minute of Deer skills.

200 yards max btw in my .357 Herret Contender Pistol

[HollandNut]

This is an old discussion , thing is everyone views it differently .. In my eyes where is the line between 'hunting' and 'sniping' ?? I was brought up with the hunt being the challenge , get as close as you can then some ..

What is the challenge in an extreme long range shot on a game animal ?? Other than your ego .. With most rifles if you misjudge by a few yards at long ranges , it's a wounded animal or a miss .. If you cant deliver a swift death to the game , shame on you . They deserve that , not gut shot and suffering ..

If you cant put 8 out of 10 in a circle the size of the kill zone at the range you 'hunt' at , don't take the shot ..