209jones
10-28-2011, 12:28 AM
Finally got a load I am reasonably satisfied with for this gun, and a second one that has promise. It's tough to find loads for this cartridge, so, I'll put it out there for those who are looking.
The factory Hornady rds with the 400gr DGX bullet showed 2037 avg in my gun over an Oehler 35p. That is set out as far as my screen cables will reach, nasty muzzle blast off those. Hard on the shoulder and pocketbook, too. $90.00 a box. Brass is $50.00 a box up here for new stuff, Jamison was $62.00/box, plus freight.
Some people recommended getting data from Western Powder, I did. Got the data for AA5744, which is an OK powder for this cartridge, loads are in about 40 to 60 gr range as they sent them to me, for 300, 350 and 400gr cast. All with an F215 primer.
The first mould I tried was a Saeco 740, they say it'll cast .412 with Lawrence Magnum shot. Wouldn't crack .40975 for me, tried WW, 1/20 and some Bleimeister shot. The shot actually gave me a few that were .411, but, only a few, very inconsistent. The mould was handy, I had my doubts about it, but, I gave it a go anyway. Fail.
So, I ordered a 300 and a 400gr from LBT, came in as 320gr WFNGC and a 400gr LFNGC, both set up for Gator 416 gas checks. Both were nominal .412 dia with wheelweights, both cast about 2 gr over marked, with the WW blend I have.
Cast them at 700F and water quenched right from the mould, came in at about 12bhn according to an LBT tester. I sorted them at 321.5 to 322.5 and 401 to 404 gr. I used some light ones for sizing and gaschecking and seating experiments.
I bought expanders and lubesizers from Buffalo Arms, and acquired a 405win Lyman M die from a fella in Ontario (along with the gaschecks and a 41cal bullet puller collet) PS--- get the M die, it works perfectly with the 450/400, comes with a .410/.412 expander in it. If I was to put another expander in it, maybe a 409/411. I will be trying that one day probably. My #1 is very unforgiving about oversized noses on the bullet, only have about 1/16" of throat. A .411 nose has the be somewhat breechseated on it if it is over length, and the crimp groove is in the neck, unusable. The LFN is a little more forgiving about that than the WFN.
So, in order to chamber them, I set them up with a snug bullet sized at .412 on the bands, and flipped over and sized .410 to the crimp groove. And then experienced some springback, which necessitated semi breechseating some rounds.
So, I ended up seating, to the depth, of a .411 nosed bullet's required seating depth to let it chamber. about 1/16" above the crimp groove and very lightly crimping them.
The crimp sleeve in the Hornady seater is the same sleeve as the 405win die uses, .415 ID. That was discovered in a call to Hornady.
So, as to loading, used LBT soft blue on everything, .412 band sized and sized to .410 on the nose to the crimp groove. All lightly crimped.
I started with the 320gr, tried 45 to 48gr of AA5744, CCI250, velocities ran 1975 up to 2060fps at 48gr, no pressure signs. Some rounds were semi breechseated.
Then I ran 48 to 52gr AA5744 and CCI250. Forgot the Chrono screens, so I may never know what they did, no pressure signs though, no leading either. They work their way 6" high & left of the 48gr load, and didn't shoot too bad either. Some of those were semi breechseated also due to springback and being seated to what a.410 would chamber with when they were done. Temp was about 60-70degF both shoots.
Today I shot them at 48gr load only, with an F215, got 2041fps Avg, SD 15, may have cracked 40degF this afternoon. No semi breechseating req'd.
Also shot the 400gr LFN's today, 42 to 46gr charge of AA5744, F215. they ran 1711 to 1885fps. didn't shoot bad either, about 4-5" lower than the 320 at 100yds. The charge order got screwed up last nite as the loaded rounds fell over and got mixed up, so about the best I can say is the 46gr loads were about 1864 to 1885fps, that was the range of the top 5 speeds. Nothing in the way of pressure signs, just more recoil.
Attached are the target pics from today. After hunting season is done I will try sizing the nose to 409 with .411 bands and expanding the case to 409/411 instead of 410/412. But, for now it's good for moose and whiteys.;)
The factory Hornady rds with the 400gr DGX bullet showed 2037 avg in my gun over an Oehler 35p. That is set out as far as my screen cables will reach, nasty muzzle blast off those. Hard on the shoulder and pocketbook, too. $90.00 a box. Brass is $50.00 a box up here for new stuff, Jamison was $62.00/box, plus freight.
Some people recommended getting data from Western Powder, I did. Got the data for AA5744, which is an OK powder for this cartridge, loads are in about 40 to 60 gr range as they sent them to me, for 300, 350 and 400gr cast. All with an F215 primer.
The first mould I tried was a Saeco 740, they say it'll cast .412 with Lawrence Magnum shot. Wouldn't crack .40975 for me, tried WW, 1/20 and some Bleimeister shot. The shot actually gave me a few that were .411, but, only a few, very inconsistent. The mould was handy, I had my doubts about it, but, I gave it a go anyway. Fail.
So, I ordered a 300 and a 400gr from LBT, came in as 320gr WFNGC and a 400gr LFNGC, both set up for Gator 416 gas checks. Both were nominal .412 dia with wheelweights, both cast about 2 gr over marked, with the WW blend I have.
Cast them at 700F and water quenched right from the mould, came in at about 12bhn according to an LBT tester. I sorted them at 321.5 to 322.5 and 401 to 404 gr. I used some light ones for sizing and gaschecking and seating experiments.
I bought expanders and lubesizers from Buffalo Arms, and acquired a 405win Lyman M die from a fella in Ontario (along with the gaschecks and a 41cal bullet puller collet) PS--- get the M die, it works perfectly with the 450/400, comes with a .410/.412 expander in it. If I was to put another expander in it, maybe a 409/411. I will be trying that one day probably. My #1 is very unforgiving about oversized noses on the bullet, only have about 1/16" of throat. A .411 nose has the be somewhat breechseated on it if it is over length, and the crimp groove is in the neck, unusable. The LFN is a little more forgiving about that than the WFN.
So, in order to chamber them, I set them up with a snug bullet sized at .412 on the bands, and flipped over and sized .410 to the crimp groove. And then experienced some springback, which necessitated semi breechseating some rounds.
So, I ended up seating, to the depth, of a .411 nosed bullet's required seating depth to let it chamber. about 1/16" above the crimp groove and very lightly crimping them.
The crimp sleeve in the Hornady seater is the same sleeve as the 405win die uses, .415 ID. That was discovered in a call to Hornady.
So, as to loading, used LBT soft blue on everything, .412 band sized and sized to .410 on the nose to the crimp groove. All lightly crimped.
I started with the 320gr, tried 45 to 48gr of AA5744, CCI250, velocities ran 1975 up to 2060fps at 48gr, no pressure signs. Some rounds were semi breechseated.
Then I ran 48 to 52gr AA5744 and CCI250. Forgot the Chrono screens, so I may never know what they did, no pressure signs though, no leading either. They work their way 6" high & left of the 48gr load, and didn't shoot too bad either. Some of those were semi breechseated also due to springback and being seated to what a.410 would chamber with when they were done. Temp was about 60-70degF both shoots.
Today I shot them at 48gr load only, with an F215, got 2041fps Avg, SD 15, may have cracked 40degF this afternoon. No semi breechseating req'd.
Also shot the 400gr LFN's today, 42 to 46gr charge of AA5744, F215. they ran 1711 to 1885fps. didn't shoot bad either, about 4-5" lower than the 320 at 100yds. The charge order got screwed up last nite as the loaded rounds fell over and got mixed up, so about the best I can say is the 46gr loads were about 1864 to 1885fps, that was the range of the top 5 speeds. Nothing in the way of pressure signs, just more recoil.
Attached are the target pics from today. After hunting season is done I will try sizing the nose to 409 with .411 bands and expanding the case to 409/411 instead of 410/412. But, for now it's good for moose and whiteys.;)