Ruger #1 30-06 Cast Vs J-word HELP!

[broomhandle]

Some puzzling results! The Ruger #1 shot cast bullets about 4 inch down & about 4 inch's over to the right from the bulls-eye !

The jacked bullets were hitting in the bullseye!!

Both groups were tight, but the cast bullets were OFF 4inchs LOW x 4RIGHT big misses at 100 yards!

In the past, I have found cast bullets, just usually shoot low! I repeated the groups twice same results!
Have to ask some of you serious cast bullet shooters, if you have seen this result!
What the heck is up with this load?:-?
Thanks for any help!

Best, broom

[ss40_70]

any thing you change in a load can make a point of impact differance by changing barrel harmonics ( hope thats the correct term ) in the picture the circled bullet holes are 26 grns of aa5744 in a 45-70 the ones with a line are 25 grns aa5744 so about any change can make a differance be it big or small http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/IMG_0001-3.jpg

[broomhandle]

Thanks for your reply!

I guess,I have been lucky in the past, with just shooting low!

Best to you,
broom

[atr]

Broom.....
your results are NOT unusual in my experience. some of my rifles shoot low with cast but dont lose windage....but then I have a couple of rifles that shoot low AND off center for windage....

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

Thanks for the replys!

It was fun to be hitting a 200 yard steel target about 7 or 8 out of 10 times with cast bullets.
Some of the guys I shoot with think cast bullets are just for pistols at short range.

I'm sure with a little work, I can hit 10 out of 10. I will save my barrel from any wear.:drinks:

Best,
broom

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting Broomhandle,

However, anytime I switch components I at least expect there to be a change in Point Of Impact.

I was talking to Bill Stiegers, the maker of the line of Bitterroot bonded bullets one time and due to the cost of his hand made product and the expected high price was asking how a person could afford to work up loads with his bullets.

Bill's wife, Mary, and I both belonged to the same professional photographers assoc. and on occasion Bill would attend one of our meetings where I'd get a chance to talk with him.

Bill's reply to my question was to use another bullet of like weight and once a load was developed, just switch to his bullets for hunting.

For those of you young folks, back quite awhile ago Bitterroot and Nosler Partition bullets were many times written about in hunting/shoot/reloading magazines, as the gold standard of big game bullets.

Anyway, I never quite bought into that idea.

The Bitterroot bullet had a very high level of hand work involved but were very well thought of in some circles.

Bill was basicly out of production when I knew him, to the point of buying his own products off the tables at gun shows, and always when questioned about when he would be back in production, said he was, "re-tooling."

All that to say this, I would have been very surprised to see both loads/boolits shoot to the same point of impact. Excess pressures could also have been an Issue in the case of the Bitterroot!

I read about rifles that seem to shoot everything to the same POI, but don't recall seeing or ever having one.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Marlin Junky]

any thing you change in a load can make a point of impact differance by changing barrel harmonics ( hope thats the correct term ) in the picture the circled bullet holes are 26 grns of aa5744 in a 45-70 the ones with a line are 25 grns aa5744 so about any change can make a differance be it big or small

ss40_70,

Humor me and repeat that test starting from a clean barrel with both the 25 and 26 grain loads. Do you always clean your barrel before changing loads? Was the 26 grain load the first one you shot on that target? Looks like you've got a problem with the 26 grain load (not necessarily the charge weight, but perhaps the alloy/fit) because it's walking to the right. That's a 100 yard group, correct?

Thanks,
MJ

[leadman]

I play around alot with different loads in my guns and have seen the groups walk around the targets in some strange ways. Not unusual at all.

[ss40_70]

mj
i had to go back and read threw some of my notes for the day i shot those groups to be sure my memory was correct , but my notes and my sometimes spotty memory tell me that the 25 grn load was shot first and it was threw a fouled bore , the previouse day i had been trying 3031 and when shooting smokeless i tend to treat my cast boolit rifles like a .22 and not clean till i see a problem ...

i think ill show you the total results of that days shooting and what i did
ok i used three loads that day all aa5744 ww cases wlr primers and the lee 5003r boolit cast in wheel weight seated out to just engage the rifling lubed with lee alox and shot at 100 yds

frst load shot was the above marked 25 group ..
the next group is the target youll see below with 25 1/2 grns of powder shot on a differant target
and the last group is the 26 grn group you seen on the above target ,..
lol i didnt want to shoot any more holes in the 25 1/2 grn target cause i was just estatic at the results and i was to cold to walk back to the bench and get a fresh target to hang so i just marked the holes

to give you an idea of actual group size the black measures 5 in ( 25 yds pistol repair center ) , if youd like i can dig out the actual targets and measure them
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/stephen4570/IMG_0003.jpg

[mroliver77]

I am not sure what causes the walking but have seen/experienced that with a well built well bedded stiff barrel rifle you don't see this. Not that it is completely gone but most any load will shoot well and windage will be on.
I have a very heavy barrel target rifle in 7.62X39 built by Willbird. It shoots most anything you throw together well. different loads hit higher or lower but windage stays on.
I suppose the heavy stiff barrel negates a lot of the harmonic distortion.
Jay