.25 Hornet Uberti Baby Rolling Block

[bearmn56]

Have been away from this site for months. Lots going on including some health issues. However, I am back with a new project to share. My .25 Hornet project.
The idea for this project started several years ago with an article in Handloader Magazine about a .25 Hornet in the Thompson Contender single shot pistol. My gunsmith and I talked this one over and decided it would be neat to have a rifle chambered in this cartridge. We were fascinated by the fact that this cartridge looks like a minature .45-90 or a scaled down .32-40. We started looking for a suitable action and decided to use the Uberti Baby Rolling block platform. This Baby Rolling block is a replica of the Remington #2 rolling block and is about 1/2 the size of the #1. This small action would make a perfect "buffalo gun" in minature using a minature "buffalo cartridge".
We decided that the easiest conversion would be to acquire one in .22 Hornet and simply reline it with a .25 caliber liner from Brownells (these are Redman liners). We ordered a reamer from JGS reamers in Coos Bay, Oregon. We contacted CH4D for the dies. We sent CH4D the reamer drawing from JGS and viola we had two sets of .25 Hornet dies. These dies run around $85.00 delivered and are of excellent quality. The people at both JGS and CH4D were super to deal with!!
Kept looking for a Uberti BRB on line (these are discontinued in .22 Hornet). Finally was the successful bidder on Gunbroker. The rifle arrived and my gunsmith immediately relined the barrel and chambered the liner in .25 Hornet. The Brownells liners are .250 bore and .257 Groove and have a 1-14" twist.
I have a .25-20, so I have lots of cast bullets for this caliber ranging from around 67gr to 90gr. Bullets that I have are 257420, 257463, 257464, and 257312. From the onset only cast bullets were to be used in this rifle. I worked up and shot dozens of loads using the above cast bullets.
As per the latest Speer reloading manual for the .22 Hornet, I used CCI 500 small pistol primers exclusively. These primers really smooth out the extreme spreads....making very uniform loads...with ESs running under 50fps.
The very best all around powder is Hogdgdon's Lil'Gun. Six grains with bullets over 80gr (velocity around 1600fps). Six to seven grains for bullets around 75gr (velocity in the 1700fps range). Eight grains for the 257420 bullet. Pressures are mild.
I just took a chance and bid on and got, at a very attractive price, 1000 257420 Hollow point bullets on Gunbroker. They were sized, gas checked and lubricated and appear to made from linotype!!! (Imagine the time it would take to cast these up using a single cavity HP mold!!!!). They weigh 67grains. With 8.0 grains of lil'gun they exit the muzzle at 1950fps with NO leading. They shoot less than 2" at 50 yards using the iron sights.
With this kind of performance, I decided that I needed to have a better sighting system. So I ordered one of the 6x Malcolm scope replicas from Midway. It is 18" long. My gunsmith mounted it on the Baby Rolling Block and I was in business for some serious shooting. The 67gr HP bullet, with the 6x Malcolm, will shoot under 1" at 50yds!!
I am planning on using it "buffalo (gopher) hunting" next spring on a nearby ranch where the gophers (ground squirrels) are overrunning the place.
Will enclose some pics later.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[bearmn56]

After some fiddling around I have the pictures of this project.

[leftiye]

Cool! I've had a thing for a .25 Hornet for years. Both in a revolver (S&W K frame) or a rifle (probly a Contender). I haven't started on this yet though. At present, I'm converting a Remungton 580 to 22 CCM. I have already made a S&W model 15 into a 22 CCM (only have to put .22 wrm barrel and cyl on model 15 frame). Where did you get your chambering reamer?

[bearmn56]

leftiye,
The reamer came from JGS tool and die in Coos Bay, Oregon. Their reamer works great. It is a straigth taper like the .32-40. CH4D made the dies based on the drawing from JGS. The dies create a .400 straight section from the case mouth, thus supporting even the longer 90gr cast bullets to thier base. If one looks at a .32-40 case before and after firing, the neck in the loaded round is parallel so as to hold the bullet. After firing the case is a straight taper.
We have some cases that have been FL sized and fired more than a dozen times with no case loss.
The best way to form cases is by fire forming. I use a small pistol primer and 5-6gr of Bullseye and a .22 caliber bullet in a standard .22 Hornet case. Cases fire form beautifully and are of the correct length and even require some trimming. WARNING!! Use only .22 cal bullets for the fire forming!!...otherwise dangerous pressures result!!!
I have tried expanding the case mouth using a 6mm, and then a .25 cal expander. This causes the formed cases to be too short....Fire forming is by far the best, giving a case that is the correct length.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[Old Goat Keeper]

But I am wondering why the 25 hornet instead of just using your 25-20 if I may be so bold to ask??? In a bolt gun or a quality single shot, like you are building, the 25-20 will out do the 25 hornet.

T-o-m

[uscra112]

But I am wondering why teh 25 honet instead of just using your 25-20 if I may be so bold to ask??? In a bolt gur or a quality single shot, like you are buildidng, the 25-20 will out do the 25 hornet.

T-o-m

Because he can !

[bearmn56]

Keeper,
Yes, I could have made this a .25-20 WCF. However, I already have a real cute Aussie Cadet Martini in .25-20. The Martini has been reworked to look like a small British Rook Rifle.
The .25 Hornet project was created to come at things from a different direction...and as 112 said..because we could.
Actually, with cast boolits, the .25 Hornet shoots better and appears to be more efficient ....
Am enclosing a pic of the Martini....hope it uploaded OK.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/32314eac17a37038e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2522)

[6.5 mike]

Loaded round looks like a baby 38-55. I'm going to watch this one, always interested in something new for a single shot. Wonder if a hornet case will go up to 6.5? May have to find out.

Nice rifle, should be good for sabertooth PD's.

[bearmn56]

Mike,
The .22 Hornet case can be opened up to 6.5mm. The .270 REN is the Hornet case necked up to .270 and used in the Thompson Center single shot (and others I am sure).
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[6.5 mike]

Good call, I forgot about the 270 REN. Have you had a chance to try yours in the field yet ? Just what I need, another caliber to work with, lol.

[bearmn56]

Mike,
Yeah....Got the same problem...more interesting projects than I have time to shoot.
The only thing that I have shot with this rifle are some of the pesky red squirrels here in forested Montana. They are always trying to chew into the soffit vents on my shop and house. The .25 Hornet dispatches them nicely....not really a challenge...most shots are 25yds or less.
The real test will be next spring when the ground sqirrels are coming out of hibernation....we have a zillion on them and I hope to do my share.
In one area on the ranch that I hunt them, I have dispached over 1000 this spring and summer using a Ruger 10/22 med barrel, my .22 Hornet, K-Hornet, .222 and .223.
The last several years, I have also made an annual trek to Eastern Montana to hunt prairie dogs. The trip this year was marred by lots of rain and gumbo mud....but I was able to dispatch 350-400 of the little devils. Getting a number of prairie dogs with the .25 Hornet would be a sure enough challenge!! PD shots usually range from 75 yds to as far as one can thinks they can shoot.
Good shooting,
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[frnkeore]

I like the idea of using the 25 Hornet in that rifle. I had one back in the 90's in 25/20 Win. As I worked the load up, the breech block started to spring and stretched the case heads.

Frank

[JSnover]

Bearmn56, have you had any issues keeping that lace-on cheek rest in one place? I have one on my roller and it doesn't like to hold still.

[bearmn56]

Snover,
I must confess...I cheated. I took a very small nail and trimmed it to about 1/2" and put it thru the bottom wrap (on the bottom of the buttstock between the laceing) on the lace on cheek piece. This little nail will hold the cheekpiece from moving nicely. When carefully removed, when removing the leather lace on cheekpiece, the small hole can easily and invisibly filled in.
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[kodiak1]

bearmn.
Great post I have a 25-10 Halstad and whant to get it cut to 25 Hornet. Just makes brass a whole lot easier. Not machining it any more.

Ken.

[JSnover]

Thanks. I may just have to do that.

[Mk42gunner]

This looks like another one of those "someday" rounds, plus I like #2 Rolling Blocks. Maybe after I get done playing with the Husqvarna in .25-20......

Robert

[mroliver77]

I like the idea of using the 25 Hornet in that rifle. I had one back in the 90's in 25/20 Win. As I worked the load up, the breech block started to spring and stretched the case heads.

Frank
Yep, you don't want to push the envelope with a RB. It is really ugly when they let go!
J

[bearmn56]

Just want to remind everyone that the #2 Rolling block used in this project is a replica made by Uberti. These actions are made of modern steel, properly heat treated and are made to close tolerances. For example...this rifle's hammer/sear is extremely hard and required some judicious use of a hard stone to make the trigger pull 4#. This particular rifle was originally chambered in .22 Hornet....factory pressures in the 45,000 psi range. In short, these rifles are plenty tough to stand most any rimmed cartridge that would fit this action.
Also, remember that this same action is now factory chambered in .30-30, .38-55 and .45-70....with no problems (However, I would consider any rifle under 5 pounds chambered in the .45-70 to be a PROBLEM!! especially with some of the heavier loads:!: )
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[Virginian]

bearmn56,

What a great read and project. You sir, are what I want to be when I grow up. ;) I hope to see some pictures this spring of the red squirrel hunts. Thanks for taking the time to post your build.

Eric

[bearmn56]

Hi Folks,
Have been away for quite some time....lots of water under the bridge...some good and some bad.
Since my last post I have fired over 3k rounds thru my little Uberti RB .25 Hornet...all with cast bullets. No leading...ever. I never really clean the bore. Just brush the bore and chamber with a bronze brush and run a dry patch thru the bore and done!
This rifle was primarily built to shoot ground squirrels in the high country here in Montana. So far I have killed 1600+ ground sqirrels, 4 prairie dogs and 3 badgers....all with the 257420 cast bullet of around 70+/-gr.
I started with some 900 of these bullets from an estate on Gunbroker. They were 68gr Hollow points. They really whacked the ground sqirrels. I picked up another 750 plain nosed bullets from another source and these worked well too. Maybe not as good as the HP bullets but good clean kills.
A few months ago I picked up a new Lyman 257420 mold. I had a friend who owns a cast bullet company offer to cast me up a thousand. He cast them up using pure linotype from a bar that I supplied. These shoot well up to about 1900 fps. These bullets do not flatten out at all, but still produce good clean kills.
To test out this cartridge, I decided to compare it to a popular rifle caliber used here in Montana for ground sqirrels. So, I purchased a Savage .17HMR std barrel with the accu-trigger. I mounted a Burris 3-9 Rimfire scope...sighted it in and was ready to go. I recently went to one of my favorite spots and shot around 100 ground squirrels. I carefully observed how well the .17HMR killed as well as seeing the damage done to the carcases. (Hope this doesn't gross anyone out!). I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the .25 Hornet is a better killer. More clean kills...less wounded animals.
This is going to be a short ground sqirrel shooting year. We have had LOTS of rain...probably the rain that Colorado wished they had. The grass is getting high weeks early this year. Unlike paririe dogs, ground sqirrels do not remove all of the tall grass around their burrows. Instead, they make tunnels thru the grass from burrow to burrow. A big squirrel stands about 9-10" high. So, when the grass gets over a foot high the shooting becomes very challenging. In Montana's high country, the grass can get 24" high. It is getting in the 18" range at this time and seeing the little buggers is almost impossible.
I don't have any trouble sharing my loads. I shoot Hodgdon's Lil'Gun exclusively. With the 257420 bullet I use 7.8gr in fireformed Winchester cases in front of a CCI 500 primer. The small pistol primer gives excellent uniformity. Velocity is a little over 1800 fps. This gun will take up to 9.0 grains with velocities over 2000fps....BUT the accuracy in not there...not near good enough for 75yd shots and over. My best accuracy is with the 7.8-8.0gr load.
The chamber on this rifle was cut using a JGS reamer and the dies are made by CH4D. Case life is excellent...even with repeated full length resizing. I have tried Remington cases and have over 50% losses during fire forming and case life is poor. The Winchester cases are the ticket with virtually no losses.
Fire forming is done using a .22 caliber bullet (I have a larger quantity of no good 22 caliber J bullets) ahead of 6.0gr of Bullseye +/_ 1/2 gr. When using this method DO NOT USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN A .22 CALIBER BULLET...CAST IS OK TOO....otherwise dangerous high pressure may occur. The .22 bullets (of any weight) have enough blow by to give good fire forming without too much pressure. There is no jacket fouling using this method.
I have tried neck expansion using a neck expander and the cases come out much too short. Properly fire formed cases require a little trimming. I trim my cases to a length of 1.380".
This little cartridge is nothing short of amazing. Non existent recoil, modest noise, and very good killing power even on tough badger sized animals.
I am adding a picture of the rifle in the field. Hope no one is offended.
All 'til next time,
Bearmn56 (Bill)
Montana Territory

[Spokerider]

Very nice!
I have the same uberti baby rolling block in .357 mag that I rechambered to .357 max. It shoots 180gr at 1800fps.....a conservative velocity for the max chambering but I'm ok with it. These pressures are still lower than the pressures that the 5.56 x 50 RM make, also a caliber that uberti offered the BRB in.

[Hamish]

Nice job pulling up the old thread for an update. Lovely rifle.

[Reg]

Glad this thread came back. This is the kind of thing that makes shooting fun !!!!!!

[Kermit1945]

Two questions:

Ever thought about breach seating and LilGun? Or Holy Black?

How are those HiLux scope mounts working out? I've heard some horror stories, basically that they are junk. Comments?

Love your project, BTW.

[bearmn56]

Kermit,
I have had no problems with the scope or the mounts. I even took a pretty good nosedive last year...dropping the rifle on the scope. The mounts were slightly bent....I straightened them, resighted the rifle (they were pretty close to being right on after being straightened) and went right on shooting. The scope was not harmed at all. Have fired some 1000+ rounds since then with no problems.
This scope is a 6X and that is the minimum power that I would use with the .25 Hornet. I have made dozens of off-hand shots with this rifle with good success.
I had the bases installed by the same gunsmith that relined and chambered the barrel. This scope fits perfectly on the little rolling block.
Hope this answers your question...
Bearmn56
Montana Territory

[3leggedturtle]

What a great read. I had heard about the 25 Hornet but never read an in-depth review by some one that owned or made one. As much as I love my 256WM, if I had read about this I probably would of had a Contender barrel made for it instead.

[Chev. William]

Very nice Rifle. Very Good Thread and descriptions, makes me 'kind'a Jealous' of your shooting opportunities as I live in a County that has put restrictions on hunting anything.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Gibbs44]

Can't keep a good thread down. I'm glad it popped back up again.

[JeffinNZ]

Spectacular. I want one.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Enjoyed this thread big time, thank you!.
Very impressed with the ballistics/ results you are getting from this little caliber. I would call that very highly efficient, 1800fps 7.8gr powder with 257-420 ain't half bad.

Please keep us posted and updated with that little gem of yours.

[Artful]

Spectacular. I want one.

I hate to say it but, it's on my project list - lovely little cartridge and does appear to be much easier to work with than 256 win mag.

[TCLouis]

What a great concept base rifle and caliber.
After all, single shot rifles are supposed to have a hammer.

Leading is nonexistent so all must be going together well.

Leading with proper boolit and loading just does not seem to happen to me.

A couple of years ago I ran about a full BRICK of primers thru a Husky 7 mm Mag and only ran a tight patch made from Army Wool sock (Green for those that go that far back) every hundred or two rounds.

Really did not seem to be a need for it but it just seemed that sooner or later it would need it.

[Boz330]

Bearmn56, have you had any issues keeping that lace-on cheek rest in one place? I have one on my roller and it doesn't like to hold still.


Get some tool box drawer liner, Lowe's or Sear's. It is kind of tacky so the tools don't slide around in the drawers and does the same for the cheek pieces.

Bob

[littlejack]

That's a nice rifle. From the looks of those varmints, it also looks like a shooter.
Hey, I got one of those cheek pads/risers for sale on the Swappin and Sellin site. They work good.
That one looks very nice on your rifle.
Regards
Jack

[kopperl]

Durn! Now I have to rethink leaving my Martini 297/250 stock.

[thane]

Hello that rifle is just the thing. I have a Stevens drop block in 25 rimfire. Or it was. Now it is center fire . only thing is I load black powder only. Have reamed the chamber to the 25 Ackly hornet.

[thane]

Howdy it is me again . a update I ordered a mold from down under. Cast bullet engendering. Cast a 60 gr. Flat point. I really like the bullet. And the mold is beautifully made. On another note I have a #4 rolling block that I converted from 32 rimfire to center fire shooting squesed down 32 smith and Wesson . and a heeled bullet. Fun little rifle it is shot with Black also.

[helice]

May I extend my thanks for bringing this back for us with the update. I grew up in North Dakota and reading of your gopher (buffalo) hunt was great fun. It brought back wonderful memories of my brother, cousin and father and of course me, all popping away with our .22s at those pasture rats. Thanks also for the pictures. I enjoy reading of the work you gunsmiths do and the pictures just make it a bit more fun.

[Artful]

Found a Martini Cadet in 22 hornet up in Payson gun shop but they wanted $1k - more than I'm willing to pay.