1911 guys

[Harter66]

I know a 1911should be in 45acp but I can't help myself I have to have "versatility " or something like it to keep me busy.

Id like to have 2, simple right,38 super and 45 acp. But I like the numbers put up by the 10mm and I the 40 Smith. If I were to go the route of 1 frame w/multiple uppers or bbls w/spring kits which, basically hold it to cartridge/cal please,would be the best starting place? I'm inclined to think start w/a 10mm then a 38 super and 45. Im curious about the various 9mm too,23,29 in particular.

[Moonie]

I have a 400 corbon barrel for my 45 ACP 1911, just swap out the barrel and the balistics of the 400 corbon are on par with 10mm up to about 180gr boolits (or bullets if you are so inclined).

[August]

Your first thought seems to be the correct one. 1911s should be in 45 acp.

[Potsy]

I've had strange urges to have a 1911 in calibers besides .45ACP. If I sit down and rest awhile, they usually pass.

I wanted a 10mm, then I wondered how far I was planning on shooting to use all that speed. With cast, would it even be as effective as it leaves a smaller hole?

I thought about a .38 super, then thought the same thing.

I did think about a 9mm for reduced impact on the wheelweight pile and reduced recoil. Also, if I don't get all my brass picked up and accounted for, I don't cry all the way home (.40 S&W, 9mm, and .45ACP should be the most common "range brass" available).

Then I bought a .22.

Sorry if I injected waaay too much practicality too early in the thread. And, yes, I still want a 10mm 1911.

[Harter66]

Never dug that deep into it. My concern was/is that if I pick up a "cost effective" model in 45 acp it might not stand a 40/10mm upper in the long haul since this will be a lifer for me. The 40K psi and 1200 fps is a far cry from the 18k/900 fps of the 45. So if I pick up a 40 or 38 super basic I should have a good "chassis" for the others.

Better question, disregaurding maker, is a 1911 a 1911 ? Will the basic frame care what cartridge its fed, aside from magazine fit. I'm fairly sure the slide,bbl and springs take up the brunt .

Always felt like the 40 was the trade off round terminal perfomance of the 45 capacity gains of the 9mm.

[Joni Lynn]

There's also a company that makes a very nice 50 caliber 1911. (no I don't have one) ((yet))

[sqlbullet]

I have a Para 16-40 I converted to 10mm. I have a couple other 10mm (Witness), and used to own a Delta Elite.

I would strongly suggest an EGW flat bottom firing pin stop and a 24-25# hammer spring if you go 10mm. These two items will eat up most of the increased slide velocity and momentum. They do so without the problems of a heavy recoil spring, like battering the frame on the way into battery.

Dan Wesson is going to be bringing back the Razorback in 10mm next year. That may be just the Christmas present you need.

[Dark Helmet]

http://www.fusionfirearms.com/

[wv109323]

John Browning originally designed his auto pistol ( and cartridge) in .38 ACP. These were the models of 1905 and 1908.
It was the military that demanded a .45 caliber weapon. This came about through the Spanish-American War where the .38 caliber revolver was determined as lacking. Actually some of the Colt SAA in .45 Colt was brought back into service to replace the newer .38 revolvers.
John Browning supersized the .38 ACP and thus the .45 ACP was born for the military. The .45 ACP dwarfed the .38 ACP in power and in sales. John Browning would not let his first inclinations go and upped the pressures on the .38 ACP and thus labeled it the .38 Super. Though the two cartridges are the same externally the .38 Super should never be fired in a pistol designed for the .38 ACP. ALSO .38 ACP brass should not be loaded to .38 Super pressures. The .38 ACP brass has thinner walls and will fail where the case is not supported due to the feed ramp.
With that said, the original question was "What calibers for the 1911 ?" BE AWARE that the differences are vast between the .38 Super and .45 ACP .
The ejector and the slide stop are DIFFERENT from the .38 Super and .45 ACP. You will NOT simply change top ends to convert from .38 Super to .45 ACP. You will also need to change ejectors. This requires driving a pin out of the frame and exchanging the ejector(s). This is not something I could imagine happening at the range.
ALSO not vastly different but different the feed ramp angles of the frame are different between the .38 Super and .45 ACP.
I would recommend that you have two different frames for .38 Super and .45 ACP.
You could share a common frame between a .38 Super and 9MM. or .45 ACP and .400 Corbon
I don't know about the 10 MM and .40 S&W

[yondering]

The 10mm works real well in the 1911. sqlbullet's comments are right on the money.

If cheap brass is a concern, get a .40, and have it long-throated, so you can load to 1.260" OAL (same as 10mm, using 10mm data, but .40 brass). You can't do this with all boolits, but it works real well with some, and gives you the flexibility of a wider range of loads. I've done this with my P16-40, see the loaded round below. This is a 220gr boolit in a .40 S&W case, and runs at 1150 fps, with really impressive penetration. The same load, using 10mm brass, runs about 50 fps faster (compared both loads in a Glock 10mm barrel)

(actually, mine was already long throated, don't know if that's a factory thing for the "limited" version, or the previous owner, common thing for competition shooters with .40's.)

As far as swapping uppers, you'd be much better off to just have multiple guns. The uppers don't swap back and forth on a 1911 like they do on a Glock. The ejector position is one concern, it's different between 45 and 40/10mm. Probably the same between 40/10mm and 38 Super though.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/IMG_4546a.jpg

[wv109323]

Also let me add the following after re-reading your question. The Slide, Barrel, Extractor,Recoil Spring,Firing Pin, Ejector, Slide Stop, Magazine ,and Feed Ramp Angles vary between different calibers of the 1911.( Specifically .38 Super and .45 ACP) Again I do NOT know about the .40 S&W and how it fits into the mix.
There is more than meets the eye when going from .45 ACP to .38 Super.
The simplest way is to have a .45 ACP pistol and a separate .38 Super pistol.

[shovel80]

.38 super is a Great Caliber in a 1911....and came around in 1929 because the .45 ACP wouldn't reliably shoot through the Gangsters Cars at the time!..

Terry

[shovel80]

John M. Browning designed the Browning Hi-Power after the 1911...and I believe He considered it a better Design!...Me..I like the 1911 More!!

Terry

[30calflash]

Harter66, I've thought the same thing myself. I ran this by a friend, gun guy and engineer, and he showed me a factory Colt commander that had the slide milled so that either ejector would work. Possibly a modified 38s ejector would work in the 45 slide with a wider ejector cut.
Feed angles, slide stops, etc may be different but it may work quite well. If you have the 45 frame and get a 38 super top end and ejector it's a matter of a parts swap. Then to decide to take it further.

[crabo]

.38 super is a Great Caliber in a 1911....and came around in 1929 because the .45 ACP wouldn't reliably shoot through the Gangsters Cars at the time!..

Terry

38 super is a great round in the 1911. However to really make it worth more than the 9mm, IMO, you need a ramped barrel so you can hot rod it. To utilize that, you need to cut the frame for the ramp. That is not needed for the 45. Might cause problems for you.

I vote for two guns. I think the 45 acp is the most cast friendly cartridge there is. You can make just about anything work in it.

[Harter66]

I actually have an HP clone in 9x19. Its a FEG. I like it and have explioted it to minimum and maximums. Armed w this knowledge I may be forced to borrow against my truck and get a Grizzly. No not ever going to happen. I've som cousin in laws in Fort Worth that stock a very plain Jane model in both 38 super and in 45 acp and both nickle and GI matt black around $500 a pop. Maybe icould look around for last years race gun.

[d4xycrq]

Harter,

I run 9mm in a 1911A1 and .38 Special. The .38 Special is remarkably accurate and is a go-to gun when I need a tack driver for target work.

Ray

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had a couple 9mms but all mine right now are 45s. id change that in a minute if someone like kimber or springfield would come out with a commader sized 10mm. To me it would make about the altimate woods bumming and self defense gun.

[Harter66]

D4 ,

You said 38 spl , the rimmed 148gn HBWC 158 SWC 38 spcl, as opposed to the 9mm win mag aka 9x29. My take a cut off just below the shoulder 223, caution over simlified.

Loyd,

I've read of several, probably customs, done/doing just that. Unfortunately my state requires a case length of 1.280 in to be legal for big game. So unless I go for some thing like the Grizzly in 45 or 9mm Win mag, its a travling companion and recreational gun. They can all go along as finishers but not as primaries.

[Matthew 25]

So this is a question as much as a comment: What's wrong with the 460 Rowland?
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
For $300 bucks, this thing stomps a 10mm (at least the advertisements do). I kinda want one myself, but I want someone here to tell me how great they are first.
I've thought about a cheap 1911 in 9mm for my wife...she doesn't really want one.

[d4xycrq]

D4 ,

You said 38 spl , the rimmed 148gn HBWC 158 SWC 38 spcl, as opposed to the 9mm win mag aka 9x29. My take a cut off just below the shoulder 223, caution over simlified.

Loyd,

Loyd,

Yes, .38 Special in my 1911 is far and away the most accurate cartridge I shoot in that platform. I load 148 gr Wadcutters - right flush with the casemouth.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/ColtGoldCupNM38SPCL009.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/ColtGoldCupNM38SPCL002.jpg


Best regards,

Ray

[98Redline]

So this is a question as much as a comment: What's wrong with the 460 Rowland?



That was my first thought when I saw this thread. The 460 looks like it would give the 1911 enough punch to be a true hunting gun.

I was thinking about buying one however I see that they no longer make them for the Para fully ramped barrels......danm!

[shdwlkr]

the way I solved your problem was to buy one in each caliber I liked back when I had money to those kinds of things.
I have a 9mm, 38super, 45 acp meets my needs. heck I have 2 in 45acp because I like the round so well.

[casterofboolits]

I have 1911's in 45 ACP and 38 Super. I carry a 45 ACP and play with the 38 Super. I use a Wilson designed 38S-158- SWCBB in A Saeco eight cavity mould and get 357 mag velocities (1200 FPS) with a 5 1/2 inch ramped barrel with compensator.

I've been reloading the Super since 1981 and consider my supers "fun guns". I also used the super in IPSC several years.

The 1911 system is a versatile ystem and I have no problem with those who want it in 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, 10mm, 50 GI or any other caliber they feel like.

Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc: It's your choice!

[Harter66]

Thanks for the inputs.

I suppose I didn't take some critical points in,mostly because I didn't havt that info going in,like the ejectors being different. Hammer springs playing a ,in this case,heavy role in slide speed control. More things to think about before diving into a multi bbl platform.

[Roundnoser]

Didn't John Browning build it for or want something in between 9mm and 45 caliber? It was the Army that specified caliber at the time.

The Army conducted a controversial (and gruesome) test in 1904 call the Thompson-LaGarde Test. It was designed to determine which cartridge would be the most effective battlefield pistol round. Obvioulsy, the end result was the 45 ACP recommendation.

Heres some more interesting reading on that test, if you're interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson-LaGarde_Tests

[NickSS]

there is too much custom work in making one frame of a 1911 work for multiple cartridges even with different uppers. This is because of the feed ramps and ejectors are different for the different calibers. Either buy individual 1911s in the caliber you want or get a gun that is easy to change calibers on. The EAA Whitness is one such gun. You can convert them mearly by buying a conversion kit from the importer. They can be had in 45 ACP, 10MM, 40S&W, 38Super (the 9X23 also works in this), 9X19mm (luger) and 22 RF. They are all interchangeable on one grip frame. I have both a compact and a full size one and the conversions kits are available for both. In addition, if you do not like steel they have them with a Poly lower as well in the same caliber spread. I have a buddy who has kits in 45ACP, 40 S&W and 38 Super that he uses on one frame. They just drop in and switch magazines and you are good to go.

[bobthenailer]

I have a few1911s in 45 acp , 2 in 38 Super & 1 in 9mm
If i could only have one caliber it would be 45 ACP ! but i really like them all

[garym1a2]

I would look into the 40S&W myself. It is quite a preformer and bass is dirt cheap.

[475/480]

I have a Caspian SS-10 MM- 6" bll that runs unbelievably smooth, 135gr HP's at 1520 fps, 150gr at 1400 and 180gr HP's at 1270. Also have 2 -1911 45's (185gr XTP at 1075 fps) and 1- 1911 38 Super (124gr XTP at 1350 fps) all very good shooters and ALL work well for CHL carry.


Sean

[Kraschenbirn]

I've seen two or three "race gun" 1911s set up to use multiple uppers...either .38 Super or 9x23 for IPSC with a second top end in .45 for pins and such. It can be done but it's a PITA requiring ramped barrels for both calibers and some serious machining of the frame and both slides. The one that I got to handle (and shoot) didn't impress me...shot .45s okay but seemed finicky about OAL/nose shape with .38 Supers. Wasn't cheap, either...price tag, at the time, would've covered a pair of new Gold Cups with enough left over for a decent used 9mm LW Commander.

Bill

[Harter66]

Kind of getting that its costly to have it all. Multiple identical guns looks to be the most cost effective way.

Tuned well, for wide noses in the selected caliber and most reasonable cartridges will work reasonably well.
so buy a 45,40,and 38 super. 45 for Roland,ACP,GAP, 40 & 10mm, and a 38 super for the 9s from 17-23.

Honey will be so pleased!

[Dark Helmet]

Fusion Firearms again. Or 3.5" or 5" or 6"

[shovel80]

38 super is a great round in the 1911. However to really make it worth more than the 9mm, IMO, you need a ramped barrel so you can hot rod it. To utilize that, you need to cut the frame for the ramp. That is not needed for the 45. Might cause problems for you.

I vote for two guns. I think the 45 acp is the most cast friendly cartridge there is. You can make just about anything work in it.

I shoot with some guys who shoot the Race Guns in .38 Super...shooting Major in Action Pistol!...and YES..they are Hot!....

I only shoot mine at about 1150 fps without the ramped Barrel!...

And Yes, I do agree!...Two guns are Deffinately a good Idea!

Terry

[Charley]

I've gone the two gun route. One frame in .45 ACP with a .400 Corbon barrel, and one frame in .38 Super and 9x19. The Super is none ramped, I don't push it hotter than factory. Evrything works, nice to have two guns and four cartridge choices. Just need to add a .22 conversion and have 5 choices.