varying hardness in MML

[robroy]

I've been reading up on MML and am wondering if substituting carnuba flakes for paraffine ounce for ounce will change the hardness. I know some would leave out the paraffine altogether.

Now all I gotta do is come up with the $40.00 for an 11 # block of 430 micro wax!

[Hip's Ax]

Can you post the current recipe for MML? Or a link? I have been searching for an hour and I see discussion on modifying the recipe that I know but have not yet found the latest and greatest recipe.

[Hip's Ax]

Found it, over the years I missed the fact that Mike came up with a second lube that bears his name.

MML = Mike's Micro Lithi

MMML = Mike's Magical Mystery Lube

Hmmm, in the MML leaving out the paraffin and using that much carnauba instead would probably make a VERY hard and maybe even crumbly lube. I would try Mike's MML as is and add 1 teaspoon of carnauba per pound and see if thats hard enough for you. You can always add more later and see what happens. This is the generally agreed max amount of carnauba you would want to add to get a shiney bore, it will also make the lube harder.

I would not sweat the paraffin, Mike experiments with lubes a lot and he shoots a lot and he's nice enough to share his information with us.

[BABore]

Both paraffin and caranuba act as hardeners or stiffeners. Paraffin wax has poor lubricating properties thus does not add anything to the lube's properties other than making it harder. Caranuba wax on the other hand does act as a lube and will change the original lube's qualities. Note: these are generalized statements. Yes paraffin can act as a lube when compared to sand.

[runfiverun]

parrafin also has pores just like b-wax only they are smaller.
and micro-parrafin has even smaller pores.
the carrier does not have to be a lubricant.
the lithium is the lubricant in the mml.

[robroy]

To clarify, I would only substitute an ounce of carnuba for an ounce of paraffine. After reading the origional post over again I can ssee hou one might think I was swapping all of the paraffine for the carnuba.

The recipppe I've got is from a post from 2009 so I guess I'd better search for MMML and see how it changed. No use covering old ground. I just want to find a lube that will work for rifle loada at or close to jacketed velocity (7mm, 30-06, 35rem, 35whelen)

[357maximum]

Swapping out an ounce of the paraffin for an ounce of carnauba would do very little to the lube other than make you feel better.....Seriously :D

Mike's magical mystery lube was a stepping stone to MML and Mikes Micro Lithi is the final product........sorry for the confusion. I lack tha ability to look forward into time when I post some things.........................MML is the final product.

I have been very happy with my version but some have "goose poop" issues with star sizers if the heat unit is up too high. I use old lyman 45 sizers and it works great.....and best of all accuracy without flyers is what you get even a J-word speeds.

My MML version that will take me the rest of my life to use up:

3lb Yellow Transluscent ......Cappings grade Beeswax
1LB Gulf canning paraffin
1 - 14 oz tube el cheapo simple lithium grease *mag1m or sta-lube* (caramel colored)
1/2 lb micro 430

Babore has a slightly different version to make his saeco style sizers happy. This is not explosive we are mixing or a watch we are building....as long as you are close.... all is good.

Hope this helps,
Michael

[btroj]

I have some I got from Michael. Works like a charm in my Star. I use more pressure and less heat than I might with some other lubes.
The stuff does some but other than at the indoor range with a handgun I never notice it. Lading is not an issue. I mostly went to MML to avoid the first shot flyers I was getting from a cold barrel with Caenuba Red.

I would have no reservations recommending MML to anyone. It just plain works.

Brad

[robroy]

thanks Mike that's the recipe I've got written down.

[geargnasher]

Mike, I have a similar deficiency, but in a different area. While you lack the vision to see into the future, I lack the vision to see through cast aluminum. Quite a handicap when a customer wants to know exactly how much it will cost to fix the engine they overheated.

MML is a great lube, so long as you don't use it in 100+degree weather. It's the only lube I've had melt and run out of my brass in the tube magazine of my .30-30. Barry Darr lube will do the same thing with pistol ammo in the heat, never bothered to try Darr lube in rifle stuff when there's so much better stuff out there. I was having a lot of trouble with my Felix lube last winter, trying to use my summer formula rather than lube an reload some winter stuff that was much softer in the cold, so I pan-lubed with some MML I made a couple of years ago and voila'! Accuracy right where it's supposed to be. Like Brad said, first shot flyers went away, very good cool/cold weather lube.

Gear

[btroj]

I am always amazed at how much difference temperature makes with lubes.

CR is great in Nebraksa heat in the summer but it needs a warm barrel in the winter. My 32-20 needs 5 or more rounds before it settles down if the temp get much below 40 degrees. Makes me wonder if I would ever hit a squirrel with it.

The MML did well in the heat this summer. It is a bit smokey but no leading. It is a bit touchy on heat thru my Star but then again CR is too. I may need to educate myself a. It and make a PID controller for the heater for the Star.

I hate the idea of winter/summer bullets but I may need to bite the bullet so to speak and go down that road. I was really hoping to avoid it but like Gear pointed out, sometimes the gun just requires it.

Brad

[357maximum]

MML was designed by a feller that had "ONE GOOD SHOT" in the cold in mind when he designed it. What good is one shot if you do not KNOW where it is going? That same feller curls up next to the air conditioner at anything approaching 100 degrees, just so you know. In Michigan 100 degree weather comes with 100% humidity.....and the lube designer hates the heat.

For that ooober hot weather that some of ya'll like:shock:......simply leave out the soft microwax and add another half to 1 pound of beeswax....that should do it. Two things that never happen here at the same time.................100+ degree weather and Mikey out shooting. Please adjust accordingly. :bigsmyl2:

[captaint]

Fellas - At last, I have the complete recipie for MML. Been looking for a while, couldn't find the whole process. Very educational. I'll have to try some. Thanks Mike

[MGySgt]

Stupid question - what is Micro 430?

[Hip's Ax]

Stupid question - what is Micro 430?

Not stupid.

Scroll down and see BW-430

http://www.blendedwaxes.com/index.php/products/microcrystalline-waxes

[MGySgt]

Thank you - But why not use the higher temp one (431)????

[btroj]

That would be a question for Mike, the guy who developed the lube.
I prefer to not ask questions like that and just follow the recipe. I figure Mike spent a lot of time and money developing the lube and I don't need to replicate the work, or the expense.

The stuff flat out works.

[robroy]

Anyone got a half pound of micro 430 they care to sell me? I'll be getting in touch with randyrat for some bees wax.

[357maximum]

Thank you - But why not use the higher temp one (431)????

I can only tell you why I chose it. I tried several temps/hardnesses of micro wax. #430 is the one that did what I wanted to accomplish in the temperatures that I used it. If I lived farther south the final choicees/results may have been different.

The microwax came into play after some research due to posive success with adding minute amounts of petrolatum(vaseline) into a lithibee type lube. Vaseline is nothing more than ungraded and unrefined microwax that has not yet had the mineral oil removed from it. I was real close to what I sought but I had to find a product that provided the flex of the microwax without all the slickies in the mineral oil. Microwax was the path that I chose to reach a goal. When I was happy I had others abuse the lube and it was tweaked a bit farther. Finally it became MML.


Notice all the I's in the above that is intentional but not actually meant to sound like the current puppet in the White House......when YOU replace the I's with U's things may change.

[runfiverun]

this lube thing is really trial and error.
base your decisions on what you know an additive is known for.
my most current lube has a lot of ingredients and is fairly complicated and mostly uncopiable exactly mainly because one of the ingredients is not commonly available.
i use soy wax from scented candles, beeswax,solid moly sticks,lanolin,atf, and white lithium grease.
i probably spilled some xlox on the b-wax once.
the atf is the final visc modifier.
the moly is a secondary lube and has to be added to the carriers while they are in a melted but solid state. it also soaks up and holds heat when the weather is cold to help the lube soften in cold temps.
the lanolin is a tackifier but is there mainly to make the b-wax more flexible.
and white lith grease is the main stearate lube.
it requires some heat to flow and good pressure to fill the lube grooves.
it keeps the frst shot in the group from a revolver and has been over 2700 fps.
it needs more cold bbl first shot rifle testing.
and may not be for hunting purposes, but has done well so far in cold [10* temps] and has done just as good over 80* in the revolvers and target rifle loads.

[MGySgt]

Thank you for your response 357maximum.

I have tried to make my own lube, and while it was OK for .38's and 45 ACP - it failed on everything else.

I bought 10 sticks of LBT Blue and while it works good - too expensive and there is only one source.

I bought 30 tubes of Lars BAC - Works great, but single source again. When my BAC is gone and if Lars is still in business I will order more from him.

There will be a time I will need to make my own and I am trying to gain knowledge of the different components that WORK and if I can find out WHY they work, I can make a moire informed decision on my next attempt.

I do like the KISS rule with MML.

Just a grumpy old Marine asking questions to gain knowledge..

Drew