Swaging lead HBWC's

[kshock]

Does anyone know where I can get info on how to swage all lead HBWC's. I have read through these posts but they seem to deal with swaging lead into jackets. Any info or a point in the right direction will be appreciated.

[ReloaderFred]

I don't know of a source, but having shot many thousands of them over the years, I would imagine that it's going to be an involved process. First you have to swage the hollowbase slug. Then you have to roll in some lube grooves. Next is final sizing and lubing.

The only way to get around the middle step would be a two, or three, piece swaging die that opens up and allows the swaged bullet to fall out of the die, with lube grooves swaged into the bearing surface.

Ron Gromak, in Santa Maria, CA, used to swage perfect 148 gr. HBWC bullets back in the 1970's, but I have no idea what his swaging equipment looked like, since I never visited his factory and he delivered his bullets to us. He sold his business and moved to Hawaii around the early 1980's, and I have no idea where his equipment ended up.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Hope this helps.

Fred

[DukeInFlorida]

Keep your eyes open for a CH "Swage-O-Matic.

Those will allow you to swage solid lead bullets.

However, be mindful that lubrication of bullets is a very important thing. Commercial swaging machines come in with a secondary tool, which puts the lube groove around the bullets. You won't be able to do that with most "normal" swaging tool sets.

The cast boolit molds obviously give you all of the features at once, SWC nose, and lube groove.

I use a Swage-O-Matic machine, with a set of .357 tools to re-configure cast 147 grain 9mm bullets, which I size/lube, and then put into the Swage-O-Matic and bump out a few thousandths in diameter, and it changes the nose from round nose to SWC. What comes out of the die is a swaged and already lubed 147 grain bullet for my 357 Mag.

So, think through the lube issue, and decide what is important to you. Most of the swage dies will use copper or brass as a jacket for a reason.... Those don't require the lube to make it safely down the barrel.

[MIBULLETS]

A normal swage die will work. You don't necessarily need grooves, but that is one option. Most like Hornady and such use a knurled roller instead, then dip lube them. I don't think you would need to re-size then.

[ReloaderFred]

I was thinking about this after I posted and came up with what may be the solution. If you cast regular wadcutter bullets from a soft alloy, size and lube them as normal, then run that sized and lubed bullet into a swaging die of the proper diameter, a punch could be made to form the hollowbase, as long as the swaging die was shaped like a core seating die. The already lubed bullets would hold their lube and the bullet would come out as a cylinder, with lube in place.

The finished bullet would be the proper weight, since it started out at the proper weight. All you would be doing is changing the shape to form the skirt.

I change cast bullet shapes in my swaging dies all the time, using already lubed bullets. It works really slick, as long as you have the die you need.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[firefly1957]

ReloaderFred Has the right Idea I have done this and it works well . But get this I am swaging 38 caliber sized and lubed bullets into 45 caliber hollow based wadcutters! Because they are light for caliber (155grs) I use the hollow base to fill the bullet into the point better. These do not have to be soft lead either wheel weights swage just fine I did experiment and swage some of these unlubed with teflon plumbers tape on them to see if that would work. They made nice slick feeling bullets that looked great. However I have never had a gun lead so bad ten shots completely coated the inside of my 1911 barrel with lead, and the tape was still on the bullets even after they stopped in phone books!

[williamwaco]

CH Tool and Die sells a tool specifically for grooving those bullets.
they call it the 'Solid Steel' Cannelure Tool

http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=90

[MIBULLETS]

Can you get a knurling wheel for it? This method holds much more lube and at the normal velocities of wadcutter bullets work well.

[Ballard]

reloader Fred, you would have to find a WC mould that cast bullets undersized. You swage UP in diameter, and the bullet has to go freely into the die.

[ReloaderFred]

Not a problem, Ballard, since I've got a .357" swage die that actually produces a .361" bullet. I've also got a Lyman WC mold that someone electroless nickled at some time and the bullets come out a little undersized. They make great cores for swaging, though.

After making a .361" diameter bullet, I can then size to whatever diameter I need, .358" for .38/357 revolvers and carbines, .355" for 9x19, or just leave them at .361" for .38 S&W.

With soft lead, swaging dies are much more forgiving than with jackets. I reform lubricated cast bullets all the time. The lube holds the lube groove open and stays in place, and you get a different bullet shape from the original.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Ballard]

you have an ideal setup there.

[klcarroll]

First of all, I want to make it clear that I have ZERO experience in the art of boolit swaging: …..And I am looking for some help and guidance.

All I know for sure is that this particular thread appears to be discussing an application that seems to be very close to what I would like to do.

I need a .455 (or so) Round Nose, Hollow Base lead boolit to make my old Webleys happy: I want to take a .451, 230 grain RNL boolit (….standard .45 ACP fodder) and swage it into a .455 RNHB. It looks to me like the CH #105 style die might be a possibility, …..but I am wondering if there are better choices out there that I am unaware of.

Your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.


Kent

[alfloyd]

Contact BTSniper here at castboolits.

He makes swaging dies and I think that he can make what you are looking for.

Lafaun

[Reload3006]

all it would take is a Lead bullet die from one of the swage makers. I use RCE gear and to make a hollow base Wad cutter you need a pointed internal punch and a divited nose or external punch. If you dont care if it has the little ring and just flat is ok you could just use a hollow pointing punch in a lead bullet die and load it backwards. Then you can either run it through a CH4D or Corbin Cannelure tool or jut knurl it. as far as lubing is concerned you can knurl your finished or Cannelure them then tumble lube them in LLA , XlOX, or 45/45/10 some folks just use straight up Johnsons paste wax. Or you can tumble your cores in powder graphite before you swage them this will impregnate the lead on the surface with graphite lots of Options and would be a Very easy bullet to make. If you wanted a double hollow cavity boolit (both ends hollow) you would need a special internal punch but all is doable. and the process to make them is very easy.

[Mozz]

I have the Corbin set up and swage pure lead and lube with LEE Alox...

No lube ring and the Alox works a treat, I don't push them that hard abut 800 ft per sec.

Dave

[alfloyd]

"It looks to me like the CH #105 style die might be a possibility,"

You will need a different punches to make it work for you.
The bottom punch that it coms with will make a wadcutter type nose.
FWest had me make a different nose punches to make a round nose and a SWC.

The top punch will need to be change out to make it a hollow base slug.

Lafaun