Need some clarification

[stealthshooter]

I have never swaged before but am seriously looking to get into it. I'm wanting to swage 300+ grain .451-.452 bullets. What all dies will I need to do this? I have seen die sets anywhere from 2 to 5 dies. I want to use brass cases of course but I also would like to be able to draw my own jackets from copper. Utahshooter turned me onto some dies that will make half jackets and that is something I have been considering. So what all do I and do I not need?

[DukeInFlorida]

that's a whole lot of questions there......

Brian's "one step" die set is ok for making .40 S&W's into 44 magnum bullets.

However, for turning .40 S&W's into 45 ACP bullets takes a couple of steps, so there's extra tools, and it costs more money.

The tool set to use copper tubing to make jackets is extra tools again, and even more money.

I suggest that you track down some of Brian's listings here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52

That will give you a sense for costs for the tools. All of his tools will work with a regular "O" type frame reloading press.

He has tools already designed for :

9mm cases into .40 S&W bullets
.40 S&W cases into 44 magnum
.40 S&W cases into 45 ACP

and a few additional ones that he's not into full production yet.

If you haven't already, you should also seek out and read all of his postings in this swaging area, and then look over the listings in the vendor area (where he sells the tool sets).

That will give you a sense for what's needed, how much it costs, and how you do it.

[stealthshooter]

Thank you Duke!

I see C&H 4D sells a 2 die set. Will these get me started so I can make some bullets and get a feel of what else I'll be needing in the future?

[frank martinez]

I am right there with you Stealthshooter. I now have 3 sets of inexpensive dies (actually ended up with two sets of 38/357's) and have been playing with half jacket, pure lead pills and learning how to swage lead and pour lead cores. With the help of Utah Shooter I made up a bunch of jackets from 22's and seated the lead cores. Next week I will take all those to a friends house and use his press to make up some open point and hp bullets since he has all the stuff.
Yeah, I think for getting started it is ok to start small and inexpensive before making the investment but I also think you would be able to sell off anything you buy pretty quickly if you find you don't like it. In the meantime you can learn about cutting cores to the correct size, learning how to use the press as a swage tool instead of a reload tool and get a feel for adjusting the die to get the correct nose shapes. If you go for one of the dedicated press set-ups there are lots and lots of helpful individuals here with hundreds of collective years of experience to learn from. I have been using the search feature and you tube to get some knowledge of what to expect. Now, after over a year of lurking and reading I sent in an order to expand my stuff a little more.
Go for it.
Frank

[DDriller]

I jumped in with both feet and bought a .458 from 45acp cases from BT. It is an enjoyable hobby but now I need dies for a .338, .40, and .45.

[stealthshooter]

I don't want to sound like a complete cheap skate but I need to find the least expensive way to get started as money is pretty hard to come by right now. I see they are wanting $185.00 for the 2 die set on the C&H 4D site. Is that the best deal or should I look elsewhere because they aren't great quality? I guess I just need to know exactly what I need to produce a finished bullet? Nothing fancy at this point just something shootable.

[ReloaderFred]

I have about several sets of the C-H swaging dies. I've got three sets in .357"(one produces bullets that are .361" diameter), one set in .40, one set in .41, three sets in .429" and one set in .45. I've also got a couple of sets of Corbin .357" dies, but I don't use them, since the C-H dies produce a bullet with a better ogive and the Corbin dies only produce SWC bullets in the sets I have. I also have one set of C-H .357" zinc washer swaging die, which applies a zinc washer in place of a gas check, and doesn't require any lube. That one is also a SWC design. Oh, and one set of .357" Hollywood swaging dies, but they produce a SWC bullet with a .354" diameter.

I've also got a couple of C-H Swage-O-Matic presses, which are no longer made. For those, I've got a couple of .357" die sets and one .429" die set.

For me, the easiest bullet to make is the .429" from .40 S&W brass. I can make great 230 gr. bullets with that set that shoot really, really well in my S&W 629 and Marlin Carbine. With my process, the cores are bonded and the only way to separate the core from the jacket is to melt the lead out. I use loading data for 240 grain bullets, since the 230 gr. that I make is actually longer than a 240 gr. factory bullet, so there is slightly less volume in the case when loaded.

The C-H die set will do what you want to accomplish, providing you've got a stout press with compound linkage, securely mounted on a really sturdy bench. If you want to get a little fancier with your bullets, then buy BT's notching die. That will give you a bullet that looks just like the Hornady XTP bullet when loaded.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[stealthshooter]

Yes it helps a bunch thanks! What would be the best choice for Jacket material for the 45 C&H dies? 45 acp sized down? copper tubing? or .40 brass?

[stealthshooter]

Yes it helps a bunch thanks! What would be the best choice for Jacket material for the 45 C&H dies? 45 acp sized down? copper tubing? or .40 brass?

I may have just answered my own question. I just annealed a piece of 45acp brass and ran it through my Lee .451 sizing die and it popped out the other side at .452" in diam and .93" long.

[a.squibload]

Just a thought, put grease on all the pivot points of the press.
I never used to disassemble my press, just put a drop of oil once in a while.
I think with the pressure involved a little grease will help it stand the load.

[stealthshooter]

Just a thought, put grease on all the pivot points of the press.
I never used to disassemble my press, just put a drop of oil once in a while.
I think with the pressure involved a little grease will help it stand the load.

That's a good idea! I wonder if a High pressure grease would be good or would a dry lube such as Moly or Graphite be better?

[stealthshooter]

Now...........If I tried to seat the core at the same time I'm sizing my cases in my Lee sizing die would it seat the core good enough?

[ReloaderFred]

The core needs to be "seated", not just placed inside the case. You push it down into the case until it bottoms out and it flows out enough to fill the case. By seating all your cores uniformly, you'll get a better bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[stealthshooter]

I got bored and attempted to make a bullet. I sized the case down to .452 I then melted some lead into the case. Next I used a gutted 260 remington seating die to form the nose. The finished product weighs in at 344.1 grains. I think I'm headed in the right direction. What do you think?

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111022_230934.jpg
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111022_230923.jpg

[stealthshooter]

So I went back and used my Lee 45acp seating die to finish rolling the nose. Please give me your honest opinion!!

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111022_233149.jpg

[DukeInFlorida]

Looks a little lopsided, which means it won't fly very well. But you get the idea of metal forming.

You need a set of dies that will give you a true diameter, and a straight bullet. The shape of the nose is insignificant. Especially in a handgun.

So, unless you have a lathe, and skills for making your own dies, buying them is the best way.

Seek out either a set from Brian, or CH-4D, or some other maker of the dies. It won't be cheap.

But, spreading that cost out over thousands of bullets, and you should have the economy, and the resultant bullets should be every bit as good as store bought.

If they're not coming out as good or better as store bought, then you aren't doing it right.

Proper swaging doesn't mean less quality than store bought.

[stealthshooter]

It's not lop sided it's just the picture that makes it look that way. It came out very even and uniform. These are not going to be shot from a handgun. They are for my 450 bushmaster which is why I'm worried about the shape of the nose.

[stealthshooter]

Here is a better picture http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/005-1.jpg

[stealthshooter]

Here are the ones I'm going to use for my first test firing. I really need to find a core mold so I can get the weight closer than I can by just hand pouring the lead into the cases. They are within 3 grains which isn't horrible but.............

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111023_140628.jpg

[BLASTER62]

Here are the ones I'm going to use for my first test firing. I really need to find a core mold so I can get the weight closer than I can by just hand pouring the lead into the cases. They are within 3 grains which isn't horrible but.............

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111023_140628.jpg

Just drill out a junk mold to the weight you need, then re heat in the jacket. 1 extra step but gets you buy?

[stealthshooter]

Just drill out a junk mold to the weight you need, then re heat in the jacket. 1 extra step but gets you buy?

I'd do exactly that if I had one. Thought about getting a Lee 6 and drilling each hole for a dif weight.

[BLASTER62]

I'd do exactly that if I had one. Thought about getting a Lee 6 and drilling each hole for a dif weight.

you can go to scrap yard or machine shop get a block of alum - cast or something drill it make a small plug thread the bottom for a bolt, you have a adjustable mold. forgot the sprue plate off one of your molds!

[stealthshooter]

you can go to scrap yard or machine shop get a block of alum - cast or something drill it make a small plug thread the bottom for a bolt, you have a adjustable mold.

That's a great idea! What's the best way way to get a good smooth hole so the cores will slide out easily?

Here are my bullets all loaded up and a BT bullet I made by trimming off the rim it weighs 307 grains.
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111023_165251.jpg
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111023_155713.jpg

[Utah Shooter]

You actually separate the block so they fall out.

[BLASTER62]

You actually separate the block so they fall out.

What I was sugesting to Stelth S the ability to move a cylinder up & down the bore of mold with a screw at the botton to change weights no need to split the mold?

[Utah Shooter]

Wouldn't it still be easier to split the block? Never used a core mold before.

[BLASTER62]

You actually separate the block so they fall out.

They sell lapping compound on the net, google diamond lapping compound. Then make up a wood stick or alum to put compound on. Drill hole a couple thousands under finish with lap.

[BLASTER62]

Wouldn't it still be easier to split the block? Never used a core mold before.

If you build a mold to spilt it takes more work to square it up cut little vent lines index pins, A block & piston is a lot quicker & simple.

[Utah Shooter]

So just mark it where you can get accurate weight? Screw or rather un screw til its gets back to the line?

[BLASTER62]

So just mark it where you can get accurate weight? Screw or rather un screw til its gets back to the line?

What I do is use a caliper to check length pour weigh then add or subtract to get my weight. Then check depth of the setting that gave the weight you want, write number in book for next time.

[stealthshooter]

What I do is use a caliper to check length pour weigh then add or subtract to get my weight. Then check depth of the setting that gave the weight you want, write number in book for next time.

Do you have a picture of your setup?

[MIBULLETS]

You could also use a very slightly tapered hole if you can drill one. This will help the lead fall out even if the bore is not perfectly smooth.

[BLASTER62]

Do you have a picture of your setup?

Idont use molds any more I have a hydo press and make wire for cores, so all I do know is cast slugs for wire die. Sold all the molds think I have a 223 corbin mold left.

[stealthshooter]

Just sent a money order off for a mold!!! Been playing a bit and came up with this............weighs 300 grains.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab278/shayn8103/IMG_20111024_142923.jpg

[BLASTER62]

looks good, you could color code your weights yellow 300 red 350?:lol: