Heavy boolits in .50

[Flinchrock]

I have a 1-28 twist GM barrel in .50 and I want to use the heaviest boolit that
will stabilize well. I am shooting sidelock with plain ol' CCI caps.
Does anyone have any recomendations, I want to try a few different styles
before I buy a mold. Thanks in advance for any help.

[versifier]

MaxiBalls and REALs are a good place to start.

[Bullshop]

I offer a good selection of conicles for 50 cal ML. You can view some pics at http://www.dwbs.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=bullets&action=display&thread=1143609643
The heaviest we offer is the 600gn. It has been very accurate in the White rifles.
BIC/BS

[Flinchrock]

Thanks, Bullshop, as soon as an admin "approves" my account at that site,
I will look at the pictures.

Have as Good a Day as you can.

[Underclocked]

Look at them HERE. (http://home.mchsi.com/~rltsr/bullshop.jpg)

Dan makes some ultra-nice conicals - my picture work might be a bit lacking though. I've chosen his 460 grain MT NEx as my favorite among the .504s (he can size them more appropriately for your rifle if you specify dimension (within the limits of his many sizers).

[Flinchrock]

Thanks, Underclocked, your picture work is fine, especially since I still can't view
them on that other site. [smilie=1: Got a sugestion for a charge for that bullet you like? I use goex, want to drive it as hard as it will shoot straight!

Have as Good a Day as You Can

[twoworms]

Flinchrock,

A friend of mine tryed a few of my 440+ grain boolits from a Lee 501 dia mold in his TC Encore. He said they loaded firm, but he only fired 3 of them so I can't tell you how it all worked out.

I think the boolits he tryed where too hard, but I could cast you a few with pure lead and you could they them if you like. They should come out around 450gr or so.

Tim

[Flinchrock]

That would be great! I don't mind paying for them, I just didn't want to buy a
lot of something and find out it didn't work for me. Not sure how to use the
pm option on this board yet, will try to get back with you.

[Underclocked]

Goex which? I wouldn't go over 100 grains regardless as I value my bones. :) But you'll probably find about 80 grains or so will drive it plenty hard and very accurately.

It's the same pic as on the other site.

[mr mom]

ive got the .50 cal. maxi hunter bullet mold from t/c ... i think it akes a 355 gr. bullet.....

[twoworms]

Boolits in the mail today for you to test.

Good luck,

Tim

[Flinchrock]

Thanks muchly!!! Will let you know how they work out as soon as I can:-D

[twoworms]

Good luck with the boolits/load...

Pass it on.

Tim

[Flinchrock]

Good luck with the boolits/load...

Pass it on.

Tim

Nuthin wrong with your casting! Will try these as soon as I have time.
Thanks again!:-D

[Rattus58]

For the 600 grain bullet, I wouldn't use anything more than 80-90 grains and 70 grains of 3& 2F would be plenty. It will be slow, it will be accurate most likely, and it will hit like a sumbitch... I use them in my .504 White with a 1-24 twist, the GM is 1-28. The only GM barrels I have are all1-70 twist (54, 58) so I cannot be of help to you unfortunately in that department

Aloha.. tom :cool:

[Rattus58]

Here is a link you can point to get an idea of a good bullet

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/11654/2002188524008118242_rs.jpg

Lets talk about what we want a bullet to do. For me, its the hole-punch from the famous hole-punch theory designed and perfected over the millenia by cro-magnon through modern man. In this theory, it is said that the objective of the tool used to collect ones dinner should be certain in its implementation and complete in its endeavor. Thus the Atlatl, stone tipped spears, heavy wood arrows and bolts tipped with stone and steel became the tool of the harvest, large heavy shafts that penetrated thoroughly, a hole-punch.

Bullets... what do we want a bullet to do? We want it to kill. The best way to accomplish this is to have accurate shot placement with whatever you're using. Next we want the bullet to penetrate and expand. Killing comes with penetration. The more a bullet penetrates the better the odds of the animal dying quickly. This is a good thing. It gets us home for dinner before the kids' bedtime and maybe even some leftover time with mama ..... of course that aint the deer yer sposed to be skinning right now... however..

Bullet performance .. we want three things..

1) Accuracy. Bullets that ride the lands without deformation upon loading will lie centered in the bore. This is crucial to accuracy, for the bullet is not canted in any way as can happen when they are forced into the bore. Nor is there any damage to the base... a necessity to preclude tipping at exit... with its induced whirl and wobble that will rarely be dampened enough for any kind of accuracy.

2) Cohesive Expansion. We want a bullet that will expand upon impact. We want it to mushroom open yet at the same time not fragment terribly. Bullets that have a squarish profile seem to do this best. Square might stay together, but a more thought out profile might fly a little better. Put another way, you want as large a caliber hole you as you can muster.

3) Penetration. A bullet that penetrates well will kill. Bullets that penetrate all the way through the animal have the potential to kill best. Bullets require several things to penetrate. Bullets have to have momentum to penetrate. Momentum comes from velocity or it can come from weight. For example, a 240 grain bullet at 2400 fps has a momentum factor of 2.57. A 460 grain bullet at 1250 fps has a momentum factor of 2.56.

All this ends at the muzzle however. The longer heavier bullet will retain more of its momentum over distance and particularly at impact, where tests like those done by Lyman from their Cast Bullet Handbook, show that larger heavier bullets like the 45-70 govt will outperform all but the most potent very high velocity 30 calibers in penetration.

And its the impact that we concern ourselves with most. How will the bullet hang together. Large heavy calibers have the ability to penetrate, to expand, and to remain righted and on course right through the animal leaving a large wound cavity in the animal. An ideal hole-punch.

How does this bullet do this? 1) It is heavy.. 460 grains. 2) It has caliber, .506. 3) It has mass and sectional density that will continue to drive this bullet even as it expands and slows due to this expansion. 4) It has a meplate of 64%. This allows for better BC and offers good expansion at impact.

In my opinion, this bullet should be a few grains heavier, say 480, but this bullet is Colorado legal as is. It is suited to a greenhill 1-31 twist, a little slower than the typical 1-28 found nowadays, but there are some 1-30 and 32 twists that could benefit from this bullet as well.

If a bunch of you got together and bought this mold and gave it to Dan at Bullshop bullets, he would be able to provide you with an exceptional bullet for reasonable cost... and a lot less than you could do it yourselves in most cases.

Aloha.. Tom :cool:

[Underclocked]

Tom, I think that mould would be an excellent candidate for a group buy.

[Rattus58]

I agree... it has all the necessary ingredient for a job well done... :)

Aloha.. Tom

[Rattus58]

Tom, I think that mould would be an excellent candidate for a group buy.


Problem is I don't think you have a group here... :)

Aloha.. :cool:

[Old Ironsights]

Not to step on Bullshop, but I've shot a few 500gr .500 REAL's cast by a guy in Florida...

[Rattus58]

Not to step on Bullshop, but I've shot a few 500gr .500 REAL's cast by a guy in Florida...

And.... ????

The largest LEE type REAL bullet I'm aware of is a 320 grain bullet. A 500 grain REAL would be an interesting bullet.

[Old Ironsights]

And... it hurts to shoot them. ;)

They aren't a stocking item, but you can contact Bill Davis, who is infrequently on the Forum, at blackjackhill.com

[joeb33050]

My GM Renegade round ball barrel is doing well, I'm learning. The GM .50 28" twist is next, I think. Greenhill says a 28" 50 caliber barrel will stabilize a bullet 1.339" long, the estimator gives an approximate weight of 616 grains.
How big should the bullet be? Diameter? Should it be bore diameter, ~.500", or bore+a little ~.505", or what? I'm interested in target shooting at longer ranges.
Thanks;
joe b.

[Underclocked]

Slug the bore for exact dimensions. I would use land-to-land plus .0005 if possible (Bull Shop manages that sizing somehow). Pure lead - and I would not go that heavy in a 1:28. My guess would be your best results would be in the 400-500 grain range, favoring the lighter end. Bull Shop can fix you up with some variety of bullet designs/weights (very reasonable) to try before you buy a mould.

Cayugad (posts at Hunting.net and elsewhere) has done some conical shooting with the 1:28 GM barrel and might be able to save you some time.

[joeb33050]

Slug the bore for exact dimensions. I would use land-to-land plus .0005 if possible (Bull Shop manages that sizing somehow). Pure lead - and I would not go that heavy in a 1:28. My guess would be your best results would be in the 400-500 grain range, favoring the lighter end. Bull Shop can fix you up with some variety of bullet designs/weights (very reasonable) to try before you buy a mould.

Cayugad (posts at Hunting.net and elsewhere) has done some conical shooting with the 1:28 GM barrel and might be able to save you some time.

How do you slug the bore of a muzzle loader? How do you get the slug out?
Thanks;
joe b.

[Underclocked]

Number of ways. Some will use a soft lead (a bit oversized) sinker or bullet and simply tap it in - then carefully tap it back out. Others will create a dam in the bore (near the muzzle) and actually pour molten lead or Cerrosafe alloy - in sufficient quantity to make a slug - directly into the bore. The method for doing the slugging will be dependent upon whether the barrel has a removable breech plug. If no plug, you might want to fashion a rod with a good dam on the end so you would be able to pull the resulting slug back out.

Mic' the resulting slug to determine land to land and groove to groove.

Lead melts in the 600 degree range and many have qualms about pouring molten lead into their bore - myself among them. Cerrosafe is a much safer alloy to use - you can find it as well as a description at (click on Midway link--->)Midway (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=462291) or Brownells. Can be used until you lose it. :)

Read Cerrosafe "Technical Specifications & Use" at Midway.

[Rattus58]

My GM Renegade round ball barrel is doing well, I'm learning. The GM .50 28" twist is next, I think. Greenhill says a 28" 50 caliber barrel will stabilize a bullet 1.339" long, the estimator gives an approximate weight of 616 grains.
How big should the bullet be? Diameter? Should it be bore diameter, ~.500", or bore+a little ~.505", or what? I'm interested in target shooting at longer ranges.
Thanks;
joe b.


Greenhill is based upon 1500 to 2800 fps. this is not quite what you want for your muzzleloader. You want to use 120 instead of 150 for muzzleloaders velocities when using full sized bullets. If you are using a sabot... the rifle twist required for the bullet itself should suffice. Don't forget... rps comes from two sources.. twist and velocity.. rifles produce about 2 to 2 1/2 times the velocity of a straight walled pistol cartridge igenerally.

Therefore... with greenhill and the 1-28 50 caliber Twist = 1.07" or maybe 1 1/16 and 1 5/64".

This is for optimum twist. Shorter bullets REQUIRE much less spin, but doesn't mean they won't shoot well if spun faster. Overstabilization isn't going to be a factor in 100 yards generally.. and to limited understanding means the the nose of the bullet will not follow the arc the of the trajectory as it would if stabilized properly, meaning, I'm not sure since I've not x-ray vision like superdog... but that the nose will be pointed skyward as the bullet descends because of gyroscopic action won't let it fall naturally. So though you may be shooting an optimum bullet at 600 grains or so, a 460 will probably shoot just as well.

For Long Range Shooting, some of the best bullets were the .45 calibers of Whitworth and Rigby.. with input from many others like Henry to come up with superb long range bullets... of generally .451" bore and 550 grains and roughly 70 grains of powder. Your 600 grain bullet might work very well for this long range study of yours with accurate loads. You don't need a lot of powder to get your bullet downrange, just adequate elevation... :) . A 48 foot midrange trajectory would not be out of character for the shot

Aloha.... Tom :cool: