Rhineland 45 ACP Kit [Archive]

Larry Gibson

10-22-2011, 11:24 PM

The Yugo M48 type M98s won't work well. The short stubby 45 ACP needs the bolt extension on the left side of the bolt face to feed.

The extractors also need some tweaking and resahping for reliable feeding also.

A Dremel tool is need to finish the mag catch slot.

The mag well filler needs to be fitted so it sits as far forward in M98s mag well as possible.

Fit the depth of the mag well filler with a magazin and the bolt in place bfore finishing the mag catch hol in side of the mag well and before drilling retaining pin holes.

Short stubby SWCs don't feed well at all, RNs are best.

Think the assembly out before grinding or drilling.

If done correctly they are really fun little conversions. I've done 4 of them now; mine on a Spanish M98 action, one on a M93 action and 2 on Chinese M98 actions. I really like mine (it's the sporter).

Larry Gibson

badgeredd

10-22-2011, 11:43 PM

What were some of the stumbling blocks when you built yours? I have thinking about ordering a vz24 to do the exact same conversion. Any help will be much appreciated.

First thing I ran into was a minor problem installing the adapter block. I'd suggest that one get a magazine and release and fit the adapter to the Mauser magazine well with the firearm bolted together with the receiver..The adapter looks to be cut to allow one to just put it in and fasten it in place; not so.

Mine is for a small ring Mauser and I found one has to modify the bolt on a model 93 action. That won't be a problem for you, obviously. The adapter didn't fit the magazine well on my particular gun so I had to mill off a little material to get it into the magazine.

In the instructions they mention, almost in passing, that one needs to modify the extractor to aid in feeding. I definitely needed to make some adjustments to get the cartridge to feed correctly. I also had to ramp the feed ramp more to get the feeding to work consistently. I also radius-ed the chamber edge to aid in feeding.

I don't care much for their ejector, (look a bit chintzy to me) so I am using the full stroke to eject the spent cases.

All in all, I feel it is a decent kit, but as I said earlier, it isn't a drop-in installation. Take care and try to anticipate problems and it should go well.

Once I get sights installed I expect to have some fun with the little bugger.

Edd

Mk42gunner

10-23-2011, 04:01 AM

I know what I want for Christmas now. I have a 93 that I bought to convert to 7.62x39; then found my Charles Daly, so now it is going to be a .45 ACP.

Robert

Archey

10-23-2011, 07:48 AM

I have one of these kits on order and expect it to be here this week. I am using a Greek large ring Mauser action. I ordered a Turk stock that is in bad shape from ebay. I already have a 1911 mag release.

One thing I am not sure of is what to do about sights. I want open sights but I am not finding alot of options. I was thinking about having someone cut dovetails in the barrel for both front and rear sights and order one of Skinners peep sights for the rear. What are you guys using for sights with these kits?

This is going to be fun, I cant wait to get this going. Ground hogs beware!

phaessler

10-23-2011, 08:22 AM

Gun show today in my area and I had to see this... Almost worse that the Group buys..thanks..ha ha ha

"No honey , I wont be going to the show, there isnt anything that I need" (Did I say that)

Pete

TCLouis

10-23-2011, 10:02 AM

Since this got lost over the time the different threads have discussed this I will post it now

http://www.troupsystems.com/

Larry Gibson

10-23-2011, 12:59 PM

deltaenterprizes

10-23-2011, 10:27 PM

I just got an Israeli 98 with a 308 conversion that went through Hurricane Katrina to do a conversion, it was a gift so it will be a cheap project!

deltaenterprizes

10-30-2011, 12:52 AM

My kit is ordered and I hope it will be here next week.

I hope I don't have much trouble removing the old barrel.

izzyjoe

10-30-2011, 11:34 AM

larry, you have some nice one's there. i have wanted to build one of those for awhile, i'd like to find a cheap action, and build one. i have always thought about shortening the action so it would feed .45 acp better, kinda like a mini mauser.

Aaron

10-30-2011, 03:23 PM

Will an 1893 work?

deltaenterprizes

10-30-2011, 03:30 PM

The barrel came off without too much fuss, but it was not a walk in the park.

Archey

10-30-2011, 07:03 PM

I am not done yet but I got my kit together enough to test fire it today. I feed three full mags through it. Everything worked good. No idea of accuracy yet as I do not have any sights. I really like the feel of the rifle, short and handy. It is quiet. Not 22 quiet but no hearing protection required. This is going to be a very fun rifle.:D

badgeredd

10-30-2011, 10:30 PM

Will an 1893 work?

Yes, a 93 action will work BUT I had to modify the front lower edge of the bolt on mine. I ground away the flat bottom edge into a round bolt face. I had to do this to properly clear the magazine.

Edd

badgeredd

10-30-2011, 10:39 PM

My sporter has a 2.5X Weaver in Redfield base and rings. I don't plan on putting iron on it as my eyes don't do well with such on short barrels these days. However, If I were I would put a Lyman SME receiver rear and a base with an M14 sight up front.

The Chinese Officers Model has a TC Contender base D7T'd onto the barrel whare the rear sight would be. The handguard is then inletted to fit over it. A red dot (as pictured) or a scout scope can then be mounted.

Larry Gibson

PS; additionally to the things i mentioned above I also shortened the firing pin protrusion to minimum as I set the headspace to minimum. Standard protrusion really thunks the primers. Accuracy improved with the shortened firing pin.

I'm glad you mentioned this tidbit Larry. I had forgotten to mention it myself. My firing pin actually pierced the primers on the first few cartridges. I also shortened it to a minimal protrusion. Also I found that shortening the firing pin a bit had helped the feeding of the cartridge into battery on the bolt face.

Edd

izzyjoe

10-31-2011, 10:33 PM

well i guess i'm gona start my own now, i bought an action today, it's a '95 i think. but the cool thing is it's already D&T'ed, and the bolt turned down very nicely. it's a complete rifle that Bubba done got to, so it will work fine. :-P

yovinny

11-01-2011, 08:50 AM

Are these now being made using directly threaded barrels, or what looks like a .45acp Uzi barrel with a pressed on thread adapter,,, like the older ones ?

badgeredd

11-01-2011, 09:01 AM

The kit barrels are threaded for the action.

Edd

yovinny

11-01-2011, 04:45 PM

The kit barrels are threaded for the action.

Edd

Thats a good thing :)

I have one of the older kits, that was made with a pressed-on thread adapter.
I finally ended up spot welding the adapter to the barrel and dressed it down in the lathe.
Never moved on me while shooting, but always spun during barrel install or removal.

W.R.Buchanan

11-02-2011, 12:19 PM

This looks like a fun project! I can see uses for this gun for sure. It is definately the close range itteration of the Ruger Gunsite Carbine.

Has anyone done one with a folding stock, like a Paratrooper style?

I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't didn't design the M1 Carbine around the .45 ACP instead of the 'New' cartridge. Seems like it would have worked much better.

I know at one time back in the late 70's there was a guy in Michigan advertsing in the NRA mag who was doing conversions to M1Carbines to .45 Win Mag. Has anyone seen one of those?

Randy

greywuuf

11-02-2011, 12:43 PM

I have a small ring turk, Sorry my Mauser knowledge is limited. Would this be a good candidate for such a conversion ? and would any one know where I could get 'bottom metal" for said mauser ?

izzyjoe

11-05-2011, 10:35 AM

greywuuf, you should be able to measure the action screws, and tell what trigger gaurd you need. i'm thinkin' there is three different length trigger gaurds.

deltaenterprizes

11-07-2011, 05:08 PM

Kit has been shipped and should be here soon!

crawfobj

11-07-2011, 05:51 PM

This is a project that I'm itching to do. The local pawn/gunshop owner built 2 of them, and he's testing his now.

I'm on the hunt for a donor rifle. The only one I have now is a Yugo, and I understand that they're not a good option for this. Besides, the one I have is a shooter and too "nice" to cut on.

Does anyone have a good source out there for inexpensive donor rifles for this?

deltaenterprizes

11-08-2011, 06:56 PM

Kit arrived today! Threads on the barrel were a little oversized but a few minutes in the lathe with a flat file and a triangular file made the barrel able to be threaded into the receiver by hand.
I need to do some modification in the mill to the trigger guard/ floor plate to allow it to accept the aluminum block because the one I have is a sheet metal stamping.

deltaenterprizes

11-11-2011, 07:15 PM

I milled the floor plate and fitted the magazine block, modified the barrel to fit the inleting of the stock, shortened the front of the stock. I am sanding and filling some cracks in the stock. The next step will be to clean up the metal parts the best I can and paint them flat black. The metal parts are pitted from sitting in salt water for a couple of weeks and are real rough.

arjacobson

11-11-2011, 08:33 PM

deltaenterprizes

11-14-2011, 11:56 PM

Getting close to being shootable! Iphone inverts the pic, sorry

greywuuf

11-15-2011, 12:10 AM

Looking Good , I got a friend of mine that was "in" to old mausers and stock carving, combing his "junk" pile for a decent Milsurp stock and a floor plate for my 93. Soon as my overtime check comes in I will be ordering myself a kit.

badgeredd

11-16-2011, 09:35 AM

Getting close to being shootable! Iphone inverts the pic, sorry

I really like the looks of the full stock treatment. Nice job! I finally found some sights for mine and I have been pleasantly surprised with it. I had a little problem with one magazine not wanting to feed correctly but a different mag cured that. I shot up some FMJ hard ball ammo and then some hard cast round nose boolits. I have some Truncated cone boolits aging right now to try eventually. Hopefully I can get out the chronograph and check the velocity before much longer. Fun little toy!

Edd

deltaenterprizes

11-16-2011, 03:23 PM

I used a Wilson mag and it fed 200 gr SWcs!

greywuuf

11-16-2011, 04:44 PM

but did it Fire them???

we want pictures of the range session. :P

deltaenterprizes

11-16-2011, 09:39 PM

Ain't there yet, but close. It may be a while before I get to shoot it, the range here is still a dangerous place!

trench

11-16-2011, 09:52 PM

That's a really pretty piece of wood. A modern stock with that much grain would cost a week's pay.

deltaenterprizes

11-19-2011, 05:35 PM

I finished my rifle today, now I just need to find a place to shoot it!

greywuuf

11-19-2011, 06:02 PM

Nice!. got any better pictures ?. My kit should go in the mail Monday. Very interested in your initial shooting experiences and how it all goes .

Dan

deltaenterprizes

11-19-2011, 08:16 PM

I will have to take some and post them.

d4xycrq

11-19-2011, 09:17 PM

Folks,

Bought this Fabrique National large ring Mauser years ago - in the $38 range, if my memory servers. (the good ole days)

It was a complete rifle. Here shown below are pictures that show the state of the action - looks fine at first glance, but unfortunately, the receiver ring is heavily pitted.

My assumption is that if I can get the barrel off, the receiver ring is likely in good enough shape to safely shoot .45ACP. What do you folks think? I'm hesitant to spring $160 for the kit (and another $55 for the barrel wrench), only to find out the barrel is seized to the action.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010634.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010631.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010626.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010625.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010628.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010636.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010639.jpg

Opinions and advice requested!

And does anyone have a barrel wrench I can borrow? If I can't get the barrel off, then my only option is 'wall-hanger'.

Best regards,

Ray

greywuuf

11-19-2011, 09:52 PM

it is pretty pitted, but to My admittedly untrained eye it looks to be a perfect candidate for a 45 acp. I would have a go at getting the barrel off before you spring for the kit though. there has been some advice posted that you can turn the barrel at the reciver barrel shoulder junction to releive some pressure before trying.

Dan

deltaenterprizes

11-20-2011, 12:37 AM

Go for it, perfect donor!

rockrat

11-20-2011, 12:49 AM

Heat it up a bit, with a hair dryer and put some Kroil there where the barrel/action meet and let soak a few days

d4xycrq

11-20-2011, 07:40 AM

Rockrat: I've got the rifle sitting on top of my coal stove warming up as I type - you and I think alike!

Deltaenterprizes and Greywuulf: I appreciate the encouragement!

Keep those comments coming!

Ray

d4xycrq

11-20-2011, 11:18 AM

My honkin big Record vise was actually too big to hold the action in the jaws - so I did some lateral thinking. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010640.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010642.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010644.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010654.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010650.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010656.jpg

The log splitter wanted to lift off the ground when I was applying torque, so I had to attach it to the tractor. Done!

So, now that the ring is easily inspected, I think it is not as bad as I thought. And not nearly as rusty as it could have been. Essentially, the rust only went in half way to the first thread - so the threads are not compromised.

Comments and opinions welcomed. Think I should get the Rhineland kit on order?

Best regards,

Ray

deltaenterprizes

11-20-2011, 12:02 PM

A sporter version will be easier and quicker. I did the stepped military version and used the original stock and sights. It cost less but took a lot of time to figure out how to set the sling band and barrel band back and cut the wood to fit by hand.
I am pleased with the results but there are plenty of things that could have done better.
It looks better than what I started with.

d4xycrq

11-20-2011, 06:57 PM

Delta,

Rhineland says they have nothing but military contour barrels in stock. Bull barell are available in about 10 days. I said I'd wait on the Bull barrel.

I chose the non-military contour as I have two large ring Mauser stocks to choose from. The stock this FN came in is not pretty enough.

Best regards,

Ray

W.R.Buchanan

11-24-2011, 01:01 AM

Since you are probably going to paint that gun after you are done building it, I would go so far as to smear some bondo in the pits to fill them out. and then sand them fair.

I know it sounds like body work on a gun but it would make the end result much more pleasing to the eye. I'd even go so far as to build up the front of the receiver where the barrel stepp bottoms out. The barrel will index off the good portion of the receiver anyway and just look alot better in the end. I'd fill all the pits everywhere before I painted it with Duracoat or something good. Rustoleum is not appropriate here, although I did see one of the Army Markmanship Team guys showing you how to Camo a gun for any environment on Shooting USA. He used Krylon paint, and when it gets chipped up you just spray some more on it.

I would either sand blast, grit blast, or bead blast before I painted it. It will make whatever you put on it stay on there for good.

I don't really think you have to worry about the strength with the .45ACP cartridge even with the heavy pitting, as it is only 21,000 PSI in full house loading. The 8MM cartrigdge is twice that and more.

I do want to do one of these conversions, just need an action and some time.

Your action vise was very innovative!

Randy

frkelly74

11-24-2011, 07:54 AM

I want to see how it shoots, That really looks like fun.

d4xycrq

11-24-2011, 01:54 PM

Randy,

I'm thinking of JB Weld or MarineTex for filling in the worst of the pits. Bondo would work, too. I am going to use some sort of specialty finish like DuraCoat (or Durabake). DuraCoat actually makes a FN Green!

Pictures to follow.

Thanks gentlemen!

Ray

W.R.Buchanan

11-24-2011, 03:28 PM

Ray' JB Weld would be a good way to go, but a better product is Devcon epoxy filler.

They have a variety of products with different types of fillers. I have used the Stainless steel filled material to fix injection moulds, and the stuff is as strong or stronger than the aluminum the mould is made from. It is easy to work with a file or sand paper and can be machined also. It will even take coarse threads if you are really careful with the tap. IN any event you need to make sure you build up the area you are working above the finished as you want the fill to be complete, and not layers of material.

It is available from McMaster-Carr or most any industrial supply house.

You could accomplish the same thing by sweeping up the filings from a bench grinder or disc sander and mixing it with JB weld too, and it would be cheaper as well.

It works kind of like the aggregate in Concrete. you get the strength of the aggregate, bonded into the binder material resulting in something that is stronger than just the binder itself.

I would do all of the pits in the entire action the same way, but I would figure out a way to leave that big FN logo showing, as that would add a touch of class.

I assume you will alter the bolt handle while you have it apart too?

Randy

d4xycrq

11-26-2011, 10:50 AM

Randy,

I ran the action through the electrolosis bath over night, gave it a good scrub, and have the epoxy filler applied. It's been not yet 24 hours, and it looks like I can start sanding. We'll see how it goes.

And that big FN logo is untouched!

As for the bolt, I am considering bending the bolt handle down myself as this is a low buck project.. We'll see.

Thank you for all your suggestions.

Ray

W.R.Buchanan

11-26-2011, 06:42 PM

Ray: if you have a friend who can heliarc weld you can just cut the bolt handle off completely and weld it back on in a more favorable position.

If you try to heat and bend it you will alter the heat treat of the bolt body which you don't want to do. Too much of the bolt will suck up heat and once it's to 400 F it will turn blue and it is soft after that.

Here's a pic of my M96 bolt. I went a little farther than just cut and reweld on this one as I wanted the big screw on knob so I had to make the handle with threads on it and a flange for the knob to bottom against.

However the weld back onto the bolt part is exactly the same and is a 10 minute job,as long as you pile enough filler rod onto it so you can make conture without low spots. Also the heat affected area with the heliarc is much less than gas welding or using a torch to bend it.

The reason for the big knob is this rifle is being built as a NM target rifle and with the cock on closing style action the big knob makes it much easier to cycle bolt from the prone or sitting position. Also I can screw on a 1" round knob instead if I want. The threads on the bolt handle are 5/16-18 so any knob with those internal threads will work. Knobs like this are available from McMaster-Carr and other sources. Not expensive at all.

Here's some pics.

Randy

greywuuf

11-26-2011, 06:58 PM

Wow, we need pictures of that complete rifle! That looks really nice.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

W.R.Buchanan

11-26-2011, 07:10 PM

Wuuf: The gun is a M96 Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55. I found a guy who had had several CG63 Swedish Target rifle stocks knocked off in nice walnut, and I have a Lyman receiver sight for a Husky rifle that will be going on it.

The gun is one of my many "Gun Projects" that have been put on hold until I get my Jeep project done or at least running.

When it does get done it I will show pics of it. The wood in the stock has some interesting figure and will come out nice.

The gun would shoot 1.5" in stock form before I took it apart, so I hope with better sights it will be a good performer.

Randy

deltaenterprizes

11-26-2011, 07:11 PM

Bolt bending blocks and a heat sink work well, I have used them a few times with no problems.

d4xycrq

11-26-2011, 07:22 PM

Epoxy cured nicely and I got to sanding... A quick squirt of primer to see how many holidays there are:

Before:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/P1010636.jpg

After:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2298.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2296-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2297-1.jpg

Ray

d4xycrq

11-26-2011, 07:31 PM

Randy,

That bolt handle for the Swedish Mauser looks fine - very fine. I have two Swedes' - bought them decades ago, before they got hot. I think I gave no more than $89 each for them. One is the shorter version - the other, obviously longer. Both have the end of the barrel threaded for some apparatus. What caliber is your match rifle going to be?

Delta - I'll have to Google for the bolt bending blocks and heat sink. Never seen that done. Brownells, would have 'em I'm sure.

Best regards.

Ray

W.R.Buchanan

11-27-2011, 07:30 PM

Ray: so what's wrong with that? I think it came out good. I believe I'd remove the ejector hsg and trigger before final paint and do them separately, but that's me.

My gun is staying 6.5x55 which is a damn good target rifle caliber, and pleasant to shoot.

I am doing the same thing to my Jeep frame as we speak, and am filling over goobered welds with bondo and filling low spots in the frame. It is looking much better than before and is a worth while thing to spend the time to do right.

Your gun will look much better when done than if you would have left it pitted and just painted over it. Even a $4.95 bondo kit from Pepboys would make it look better and lets face it your job looks way better than $5 worth of time and effort.

Good result. What kind of stock are you looking at. Full Length Mannlicher style Sporter? would be cool.

Randy

greywuuf

11-28-2011, 06:17 PM

YAY! just got the package slip, my small ring kit is in.... Should be able to put up some pic's tomorrow evening.

d4xycrq

11-28-2011, 07:35 PM

Grey,

Glad to hear the kit is almost in hand. How long ago did you order it?

Ray

greywuuf

11-28-2011, 07:38 PM

I would have to check, but it was only last week, i think the order payment was confirmed on monday ?

deltaenterprizes

11-28-2011, 09:35 PM

Write up from Brownells site:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11028/GunTechdetail/Bending_Mauser_Bolt_Handles

W.R.Buchanan

11-28-2011, 11:56 PM

Or you can just cut it off and reweld it in the new position, which takes 10 minutes.

Randy

badgeredd

11-29-2011, 11:15 AM

Ray,

For what it's worth, I'd cut the handle and weld a new one on your bolt. The bending of a bolt handle can be a chore to say the least because one has to control the residual heat in the bolt body. BUT one can simply bend the handle if you have a acetylene torch available. Wrap your bolt with soaking wet rags and heat the shank quickly, bend the handle and mist spray water onto it to cool it. Take care to keep the flame from playing onto the bolt body. Don't quench it quickly as it'll weaken and crystallize the steel. The bolt forging blocks do work but a good friend and gunsmith really hates doing it over replacing the handle. Your gun, your choice.

Edd

greywuuf

11-29-2011, 12:50 PM

Got my mil contour small ring kit, as expected the threads are to large.... I will try to get some pictures up as i go along and make progress. I think I am going to leave the straight bolt handle as it seems to be easier to work that way... with it being "cock on close" and all.
Dan

greywuuf

11-29-2011, 05:38 PM

Good News!... about an hour with a triangular file and some "crocus" cloth and we are good to go.

greywuuf

12-06-2011, 11:16 PM

UPDATE:
just got the magwell/trigger guard in the mail and it is PERFECT! I lucked out, my rails are wide enough, the magwell adapter slides snugly to the front of the magwell and the magazine seem to be high enough that even if the round noses down a little ( top round especially) that it still catches the ramp and feeds all right. This thing might just run out of the box. buddy of mine had a butchered old stock ( missing some fore end that I would have had to cut off anyway ) so I am not far from trying this all out ! Still waiting for delta's Range report though ;-) I might even get motivated to post some pictures later tonight.

d4xycrq

12-10-2011, 06:20 PM

Folks,

Still no kit from Rhineland - but meanwhile, the receiver has come apart for prep and paint. (removed bolt stop/ejector and trigger assembly)

Here are pictures showing the FN receiver with DuraCoat (DuraBake) Gun Blue finish applied.

Way more in-your-face blue than I expected, especially under camera flash.

Scroll up to see just how bad this receiver was before.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2304.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2302.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2301.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2300.jpg

Bolt and trigger are still in the white, and I think I'll leave them that way. Not sure what to do with the barrel as far as paint goes. I'm leaning toward leaving it in the white as well.

Thank you for all the continued helpful comments and encouragement!

Best regards,

Ray

greywuuf

12-10-2011, 06:27 PM

Looking like I might work out for you !
that is a little "Blue'r " than I would have expected as well but it looks nice.

I am busily de-griming and removing about 60 years of oil from my Stock so that I can convert it from Large ring to small ring, and proceed with my little project as well.

W.R.Buchanan

12-11-2011, 03:20 PM

Just make sure your stock color contrasts with the blue and You'll be fine. A redder finish like a Winchester Red (look at Turnbull Restorations work) would contrast nicely with the blue.

I would leave the trigger and the bolt unfinished. Finishing the barrel in a black I think would look better than blue as I think you would end up with "Too much Blue" A little of that goes a long way, by the same token leaving it unfinished would contrast nicely with the action and stock, but you would have to deal with rust issues unless you kept the gun coated with oil.

Look at it this way.. What looks good on a car probably will also look good on a gun. If you go to a Big National Match shoot you will see many variations and color combinations. Enough so you should be able to decide what will look good and what is gross..

Avoid the Fuschia and Chartruese shades.

You're doin' good, and we can't wait to see the done pics.

Randy

d4xycrq

12-11-2011, 03:45 PM

Grey, Randy,

Thanks for the feedback.

Good luck on that stock, Grey... I have never heard of converting a stock from Large to Small ring. Using a filler?

Meanwhile, here are some photos in the sun (rather than the wicked flash)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2312.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2313.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/d4xycrq/DSC_2314.jpg

Finish is truly hard - but I will stay away from it for the next several days.

Ray

greywuuf

12-11-2011, 07:05 PM

Well the large ring stock was free for the asking and will require only relocating the front action screw. Minor amount of relief needs to be cut under the tang and I will have to make a new (thinner) recoil cross bolt. As near as I can tell there will be only mild gaps at the front of the action. For what it is and for the money I have into it, it will be fine. I know my children are very excited for its completion.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

W.R.Buchanan

12-12-2011, 09:02 PM

Ray a gray laminate stock would look cool! and,,,

OK guys: you hooked me, and today I found a Large ring/Small ring Mauser action,,, I think it is a Spanish Mauser model for $75. Gonna pick it up from the guy's house later this week

It has the large ring of the M98 but uses small ring barrel threads. I'll relay more info when I actually get the thing in hand.

My plan is to do Mannlicher style sporter carbine. With iron sights IE Lyman rear and blade front with maybe a tritium insert. You really do need night sights on a proper Can Gun

Exactly what I need,,,, another project, but I couldn't pass up the action for $75! I think this will make a real fun gun.

Randy

greywuuf

12-12-2011, 11:11 PM

I was going to throw this in a 'Boyd's Pepper Laminate" but the shipping to Alaska Doubles the price of the stock ... so we will have to make do with hand me downs.

izzyjoe

12-15-2011, 09:38 PM

i went and pick my rifle up today, now i have to save up for the kit. this thing should make a nice rifle.

TCLouis

12-15-2011, 10:02 PM

I am going crazy, can not locate any 93 bottom metal. What I have is perfect and has a nice blue so I can not bring myself to "alter" it.

I figure any decent bottom metal will work and once in the stock, who will know about some minor pitting.

If you hear of any let me know.

Going to GPC and Sarco if I can not find anything

W.R.Buchanan

12-15-2011, 11:43 PM

Wuuf: have a look at Richards Microfit Gunstocks in ,,, I beleive Sunland or Pacioma CA. They have everything Boyds does and more, and for alot less.

Shipping to AK shouldn't be more than $20 from CA.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

12-17-2011, 08:19 PM

Ok guys,,, I picked up my action today. Not bad for $75! It is a Turkish Mauser. The guy kept telling me it was a Spanish Mauser but I don't think so, as it has a moon with star insignia on the front ring along with the word ANK (moon) ARA, and since Ankara is a town in Turkey, I'm inclined to go with that assumption, and anyone can feel free to chime in with other opinions.

It is a Large ring 98 mauser with Small Ring barrel threads and I know that this is a trait of the Turkish Mausers.

It looked like it had been reblued in the poor light, but when I got home there was a bunch of black stuff on my hands. When I sprayed it with brake cleaner the paint started coming off. So I wire brushed it a little more.

Unfortunately I did not take before pics, but you can still see what it looked like with most of the paint on it.

It has a few small pits on the front ring but aside from that it is pretty clean, and will clean up even better when I bead blast it.

I can't live with paint in the bolt races, It just makes the bolt too sticky.

I went after the bolt with my Scotchbrite Fuzz Wheel and shined it up.. It has a few pitts here and there but nothing that won't cover up with a good grit blast and maybe some rust blue.

I don't know exactly what I'm going to do for finish on this one yet. I have to get into it a little deeper. I have Duracoat I could shoot on it and I have access to platers that would do a variety of finishes as "Samples" to me for free, kind of like what I did on my RGS77 bolt. Or I could parkerize it in the shop or ???.

I do know this will be a fun project that won't take forever to complete and should yeild a good shooting and real fun gun in the end. And it could come in handy during the upcoming insurgency, or Zombie Apocalypse

I have a Mannlicher style sporter in mind with a Lyman sight on the back and some kind of cool blade on the front, and maybe a gray laminate full length stock. It will defiantely have a side mounted sling similar to a Swede Carbine.

Here's some pics of the score.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

12-18-2011, 04:35 PM

I was just looking at Richards's Microfit Gunstocks,, wedsite

http://rifle-stocks.com/sporter_hunting_styles.htm

They have stocks made from just about anything you could possibly want starting at $79.95 for a stock that would be completely appropriate for one of these guns.

They have inletting that is 99% press fit for just about any action known to man.

I am seriously looking at a gray laminate stock or possibly another color for this .45 ACP project. At $80 I don't think you can go wrong and these guys can do just about anything you can think of

I also have been looking at them for my Springfield 03A3 project that is only missing the stock and the bolt alteration.

This could be a good solution for us not wanting to spend and arm and leg to complete this project and yet end up with something other than a cut down military stock.

My project will have $75 + 160 + 80 + misc small stuff added. $315 total. not bad for a custom gun nowadays.

Randy

greywuuf

12-18-2011, 05:02 PM

Only trouble is, if I want it in the next two months, shipping to me is over 40 bucks. I will likely have a boyds grey laminate ($69) but it will go slow boat.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

d4xycrq

12-18-2011, 07:17 PM

Randy

That Turk is in alot better shape than my FN! A classic K.Kale Turk - no doubt.

My FN is still sitting here next to me at the computer. No kit from Rhineland yet.

Meanwhile, I was out in Alladins Cave earlier and came across a Large Ring Mauser barrel that is brand new. I remember getting a good deal on it years ago. I suppose it is in 8MM. So, theoretically, I could barrel this FN back up in 8MM as original.

Best regards,

Ray

W.R.Buchanan

12-18-2011, 09:13 PM

Yeah: I get the shipping problem. I live about 60 miles from this outfit so I can just drive there and pick it up. It's just $40 to Alaska seems like alot.

They advertise 6-8 weeks but I don't think they are that busy. Most all of thier stocks are shaped on the outside and then they just pull one and put it on the machine and do the inletting to order.

Randy

greywuuf

12-18-2011, 09:19 PM

Shipping is the 6-8 week part for me..... Parcel post is only like $8-$10 bucks, but will literally take two months. Anything faster is like $40 bucks plus. I do believe that I will eventually end up with one anyway.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

dano440

12-19-2011, 06:40 PM

I have been thinking about this project for about a year now. I had the idea about 45 ACP when I built my VZ-24 up in 308 Winchester. I just wasn't sure how to feed it, i seen this kit about 30 days ago and seen the 1911 magazine and the adapter block. problem solved. I went on the hunt for 93,95 or 96 action, around here they are scares but lucked out and found a 1943 Turkish Mauser ( left side of the action is stamped Gew 98) for $97 and it followed me home. I got it out of the stock and was surprised to find no rust or pits, we got the barrel threaded off Sunday and it large ring with large ring threads, I hope to order my kit just after Christmas.

my project is to get the military step barrel and reuse the stock and sights. I have everything off the old barrel rear and front sights. my concerns are with sights I don't think what was on the front of my 8 mm Turkish barrel will fit on new barrel. what are the rest of you doing for the front sight???

another question is really bugging me, how are these for accuracy? 25 yards,50 yards, 75 yards, 100 yards.

how many of you are scoping your actions?

greywuuf

12-19-2011, 06:57 PM

crawfobj

12-19-2011, 07:04 PM

Found my action today. Mine is a Spanish 7x57 that was sporterized. The stock is actually in decent shape and something I think I can use, but it's poorly fitted to the action. Got it out the door at the pawn shop for $100, so I think I did ok.

The metal looks to have been painted at some point, but it looks to be pretty clean. Will have to figure out which ring/thread size I need now.

I'll take pics and share here as I get into it. Not sure how soon that will be yet. I plan to send the barrel off to be threaded on the business end before I do anything else, just in case...

It's good to live in a free state!

What are you guys using for a receiver wrench?

W.R.Buchanan

12-19-2011, 11:58 PM

I removed the paint from mine tonite. I don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was, I thought the guy said it was Duracoat, however brake cleaner dissolves it instantly. Even so I took it completely apart and grit blasted it and I must say that the deep down stuff didn't just come right off. I had to go after it several times to get it in the white.

I found out that the hedspace had been closed up by the paint as they had painted all the way into the locking lug races inside the front receiver ring. The bolt was hard to close,,, but it isn't anymore! It slides easily and rotates into battery just like it should.

I was surprised to find that there were very few pits in the metal, just some small ones below the stock line and the only noticable ones are on the top of the front ring and the front face. The ones on the top I will grind out, I'll probably just leave the others.

This thing is a good candidate for some kind of black phosphate finish.

Here's pics.

Randy

dano440

12-20-2011, 10:06 AM

As far as sights go, ...I ain't got that far yet. The military mauser rear sight I have fits like the front step of my barrel and will give me about a 4" sight radius and will be so far forward if will look like a scout wannabe. I do not want a scope on this, what I would like is receiver mounted peep. Have not looked into it yet, but I will post when I get that far.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

I had a peep on my 308 sporterized Mauser for a while and ended up putting a scope on it. I might go back and find it and set it up on this one but I had hopes of putting the old rear military sight back on the new barrel in a attempt to keep the military carbine look. the front sight I took off the old barrel I don't think will fit on the replacement barrel.

hey how long does the Rhineland people take to ship stuff out from the time of order. 1 week 2 weeks I am trying to time thing to arrive for some of my time off from work

greywuuf

12-20-2011, 10:12 AM

I e-mailed them before hand a couple.of times and they were always very prompt. Mine went in the mail the next day after I pay-pal'd it. (I was sure the one I needed was in stock first though)

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

Ben

12-20-2011, 11:01 AM

Randy :

I was just looking at Richards's Microfit Gunstocks,, wedsite

http://rifle-stocks.com/sporter_hunting_styles.htm

They have stocks made from just about anything you could possibly want starting at $79.95 for a stock that would be completely appropriate for one of these guns.

Randy, if time is a concern, be aware that these people are unbelievably slow. My friend ordered a stock and has been waiting on the stock for 3 months now and he still doesn't have the stock.

W.R.Buchanan

12-20-2011, 04:25 PM

Ben: I heard that from another source locally yesterday. I would actually go there and push the hell out of them. If they can't deliver in 2 weeks there is something wrong, I would find out whats wrong first. In fact I need to call that guy back, we got cut off just when I was finding out where that place actually is in Sunland CA. Not a good part of town for sure.

I run a machine shop and when I farm out stuff I usually ride the vendor until he delivers. this would be more of the same.

Sometimes you just have to make people perform.

Randy

Ben

12-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Good luck Randy,

My friend sent many Emails , the majority of which were ignored.
I don't know what those people are about , but is certainly isn't good customer relations and communications.

Ben

d4xycrq

12-20-2011, 06:51 PM

Reading this traffic on Richards Microfit Stocks is a bit of deja vu. I ordered a stock from these folks in 1990 - pre internet/email days. No joy. I called them several times. Ended up with a shouting match over the phone. Incredible poor customer relations. Seems 21 years later - no change.

Ray

greywuuf

12-20-2011, 11:12 PM

Ben

12-21-2011, 12:18 AM

greywuuf :

Go to a paint store and buy a small tube of bright yellow paint pigment. Mix it with WD-40. Put a small amount of the yellow paint pigment in the bottom of a jelly glass and spray in some WD-40. Thin to the point that is is about the consistency of buttermilk and put it on your metal with a foam paint brush.

Makes some very good inletting marking compound. Easy to see. Works wonders.

When you coat your metal and set it inside the stock give everything a few taps with a rubber mallet. Ray Charles can easily see where the wood needs to be removed.

Keep a few old rags handy to keep your hands clean while handling everything.

Ben

Frank46

12-21-2011, 01:19 AM

I have a 1895 chilean mauser action and stock with all the hardware so I'm pretty sure that would work. However there is a nice 1891 argentine mauser action that I can swap bolts with as the one bolt does have the handle turned down for scope useage. Do they have a barrel threadd for the 1891 argy?. And since the argy mag will take a .45acp round (I tried it) do they make a properly threaded bbl for it. Couple bubba'd stocks I have and should be set. Frank

Mk42gunner

12-21-2011, 01:35 AM

Well I am making progress.... got the rough inleting done and am able to the action MOST of the way into the srock. Enough so that I need to find me something to use as inleting black, either some chalk or anti sieze ( I have some that contains Moly, Nasty black stuff it is ). then I will be ready to source some action bolt and start fitting the mag well adaptor. all in all pretty close realy I have the First 90% done!, all thats left now if the Second 90% and of course the Finishing 90% .... but assembly and test fire first ;-)

I have used purple lipstick, even my daughter doesn't like that color.

I have a 1895 chilean mauser action and stock with all the hardware so I'm pretty sure that would work. However there is a nice 1891 argentine mauser action that I can swap bolts with as the one bolt does have the handle turned down for scope useage. Do they have a barrel threadd for the 1891 argy?. And since the argy mag will take a .45acp round (I tried it) do they make a properly threaded bbl for it. Couple bubba'd stocks I have and should be set. Frank

Frank, I don't know if it is on this thread, or one of the others, but Larry Gibson explained why the 91 won't work for a .45 ACP conversion.

I am goiung to have ot get one of these kits, I have a donor Spanish 93 action waiting.

Robert

greywuuf

12-21-2011, 03:21 AM

greywuuf :

Ray Charles can easily see where the wood needs to be removed.

Ben

That's a Good thing, because i am sure that is the guy doing the actual woodworking on this stock :P

dano440

12-21-2011, 04:15 PM

hey does any one have any NEW pictures of their projects now. I am going to order my kit after the holidays are over. I and re-bluing my small parts and stripping the stock now. anyone doing a military stock build of this kit???

dano440

12-21-2011, 04:20 PM

I don't know how long these kits have been available but it seems we all discovered them about the same time.

Are any of you guys doing any extra work to your actions? squaring the front of the receiver, squaring bolt face, lapping the locking lugs, turn down bolt handle.

greywuuf

12-21-2011, 05:37 PM

Not planning on doing a full blue print or anything, but I do have to "grind " the handguard ring threads off of the front of my action anyways, so I figured I might just as well chuck it up in the lathe and square it to the best of my ability.besides it will give me an excuse to build and action squareing "spider" tube anyway. I realy don't see the point in blue printing an action for a pre thread barrel. You don't have any idea if chamber is square and concentric with the bore or the outside contour anyway. The rest of my action is loose enough that trueing the ways is kinda pointless and any work on the bolt would result in a sleeve being required.....

Mine is getting a slightly cut down mil stock and is destined to be a fun, reasonbly accurate off hand plinker. As long as I have decent engagement on both lugs again I dont see the point in going any further. My next steps are finish the inletting enough to finish the build, test firing some and then parkerize and oil finish the stock. Sounds like a perfect "truck" gun to me :p

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

roysha

12-21-2011, 08:51 PM

Perhaps this has already been asked but I didn't see it, so... Does the magazine release need to be the high dollar extended kind or can one use just the regular 1911 release?

dano440

12-22-2011, 12:30 AM

Perhaps this has already been asked but I didn't see it, so... Does the magazine release need to be the high dollar extended kind or can one use just the regular 1911 release?

I seen this to about the magazine release myself and wonder about that too. I was figuring that I could always add a extender button if i need it

badgeredd

12-22-2011, 09:09 AM

I seen this to about the magazine release myself and wonder about that too. I was figuring that I could always add a extender button if i need it

You won't NEED an extended release BUT you may prefer one. I used a standard release from a military 1911 but I intend to get an extended release for mine. I'd guess a fellow would have to do some reliving to use an extended release and I'm sure you'd have to inlet the stock a little for an oversized release.

Edd

dano440

12-22-2011, 12:36 PM

[QUOTE=dano440;1512416]I seen this to about the magazine release myself and wonder about that too. I was figuring that I could always add a extender button if i need it[/QUOTE

You won't NEED an extended release BUT you may prefer one. I used a standard release from a military 1911 but I intend to get an extended release for mine. I'd guess a fellow would have to do some reliving to use an extended release and I'm sure you'd have to inlet the stock a little for an oversized release.

Edd

thanks I had some concerns but figured I would work around it.

How are these guns shooting? good accuracy? bad accuracy?

what bullets are you using? (shapes, weights, etc.)

do you think your are getting the claimed 300 fps more out of your bullets?

W.R.Buchanan

12-22-2011, 02:03 PM

I personally am not going to get into this action very deep. I am interested in smooth feeding and reliable function but as far as all the accuracy upgrades, I think it is pointless. This is a 100 yard gun on the high end. "Minute of Chest" is about what we're looking for, and anything better will be a gift.

I see my gun as a car gun in the trunk if I need to deal with and insane person who is killing everyone at McDonalds, a gun to have around you if you need it, or something to go plinking with. It could also be used as a guerrella type weapon if that need arised, and would take a muffler easily, which if you all recall is the exact origin of this type of gun in WW2, IE: the Enfield conversions.

The main problem I see with he Rhineland kit is the ejector/bolt stop. I have been looking at mine trying to figure out another way to do something farther forward, but haven't come up with anything yet. But I will. You'll note that the enfield kit like Art has has a stud drilled and tapped into the side of the receiver ahead of the thumb cutout that acts as the bolt stop and ejector.

300 fps increase in velocity is conservative, and it should be that easily. This is standard for pistol ammo fired in Rifles and the same loads for my pistols in .44 do in fact come out of a rifle at 400-700 fps faster. Besides that you don't really want to run a .45 ACP bullet any faster than that anyway. Subconic speed, and better accuracy and shootability than a pistol is what you're looking for with this gun.

Randy

greywuuf

12-22-2011, 03:46 PM

Randy:
yeah, I did not mean to imply I was going to blueprint this thing or spend any great deal of time with it, I was just kinda pointing out, all them "buzz word" things that people like to list off when talking about their stuff are kinda pointless with this build. I am in complete agreement with you about the expectations and uses of this slick little carbine. I think the main reason i am building one ( other than a stack of 1911 mags and an action readily at hand) is because it should be a just plain FUN little blaster.

Also have you considered just leaving the stock ejector in place ? granted you wil not get as "fast " of an action, but you wont develop bad habits about short stroking a full size bolt gun ;-) I have seen a couple of people that just forego the long bolt stop and they have said the stock one works fine as long as you full stroke the bolt in operation. I dont have any problem with that.

dano440

12-22-2011, 03:58 PM

what kind of feeding issues are occurring with these guns?

Larry Gibson

12-22-2011, 05:27 PM

dano440

How are these guns shooting? good accuracy? bad accuracy?

what bullets are you using? (shapes, weights, etc.)

do you think your are getting the claimed 300 fps more out of your bullets?

Accuracy depends on the bullet as usual. Testing at 50 yards; with Hornady 185/200 gr XTPs over 7.5 gr Unique at 1228/1230 fps I get 10 shot 1" groups. With 3 different lots of US Ball I got 10 shot groups of 2.75", 1.3" and 7.5". Velocities average just under 1000 fps. With commercial BB H&G 68s over 4 gr of Bullseye at 890 fps accuracy is 2" or less. Load 4.5 - 5 gr and accuracy goes south. My own Lee 195 gr SWC over 4.5 gr Bullseye does 957 fps with 2" or less accuracy. Again, load that bullet faster with any powder and accuracy goes south over 990 fps. A 230 cast over 4.5 Bullseye gives 911 fps with the same less than 2" group. Again, load that bullet faster with any powder and accuracy suffers.

Lyman's GC'd 452490 can be loaded to excellent 1 - 1.5" groups with several powders up to 1400+ fps. Jacketed 185s with those powders can also be pushed up there. However, I really want to keep my loads safe for the M1911 and M1917/25 S&W so those were only experimental loadings. However, top end load with ajcketed 185 - 230 gr will increase in velocity 150 - 300 fps over those obtained with the same loads in a 5" M1911.

I get reasonable feeding reliability with the 195 and 200 gr SWCs. The jump from the mag to the chamber is a long one and it's easy for the cartridge to not feed straight into the chamber. The soft lead edge of the noses will dig into the reinforcing ring where the extractory cut is and the edge of the barrel chamber in the M98. The bullet nose edges will also hang up on the chamber edge of M93/M95s.

Tweaking the magazine and extractor has helped a lot but feeding is still not 100% with those bullets. With RN, either cast or jacketed, and the jacketed 185 - 200 gr HPs feeding has been excellent from issue US magazines. Modern magazines with feed lipos that relase the cartridge early can cause the rim not to slip under the extractor.

Larry Gibson

W.R.Buchanan

12-22-2011, 06:02 PM

Larry: Thanks for this info. It is good to have some idea where we are headed with these builds.

How do/did you deal with the bolt stop and ejector issue?

Randy

dano440

12-23-2011, 06:55 PM

Thanks Larry
you answered my concerns, about bullet shape and weight and feeding issues. did the tweaking of the magazine effect the use of your magazine in your 1911, is it a dedicated magazine now your rifle?
did you have any problems with your magazine follower and the gas port on the bottom of your bolt that some people are reporting?

greenmntranger

01-01-2012, 12:40 PM

I bought one in 45 win mag, but I have not finished it ..... have you shot yours yet?

Wish they still offered the Win. Mag option...checked out the Rhineland site and no go

.45 Win Mag would be sweet

.45 LC would be nice too

GMR

izzyjoe

01-01-2012, 06:03 PM

thanks for the heads up Larry, i am fixing to dive into my project too, and i might need some help to work out the bugs.

dano440

01-02-2012, 12:30 AM

I am in hopes to order my kit Tuesday. I got to shot a similar type design over the new year's holiday. it was based off a Mauser 93 7mm rifle and converted to 45 ACP. now I am wanting to get my kit and finish mine up. Mine is a Turkish Mauser stamped GEW 98 built in 1943 has all of it's prep work done, lapping bolt lugs to 80% contact, squaring bolt face and squaring front receiver for locking ring is done. Now all that is left to do is weld on the Brownell bolt handle on, and do firing pin protrusion adjustment, and install the barrel and magazine adapter, and I will be in the game.

dano440

01-09-2012, 02:40 PM

well I got my kit today I am fairly impressed by it as I took it out of the box. I hope to have it together in a few days.

ordered it January 4th and got it by January 9th. not to bad considering they were on vacation the week before.

dano440

01-10-2012, 06:22 PM

how rough of finish were there on the bull barrels???

my military contour barrel was very roughly finished, I sanded on it for over and hour to get something that smooth enough that it didn't feel like it was threaded.

I have some cousins that are watching my build to see how mine turns out before they start theirs.

W.R.Buchanan

01-10-2012, 10:50 PM

I got mine today and have spent the last hour trying to fit the barrel. Threads are a little big, but will file into fit eventually. I own a machine shop but don't have a Engine lathe to chase the threads, so I will continue to file until I can make head space.

I got a small ring Mauser kit which I am fitting on a M98 Turkish action, which is the large ring receiver with small ring barrel threads.

I played with the ejector, and as stated before, it leaves alot to be desired. I can make it work but I really want something a little more attractive. It is well made being laser cut, but there has got to be a better way to do it. I will cogitate on it and post my results when I get to it.

The magazine adapter is nicely made and I see no problems with it.

I got the mil contour barrel as well simply because they didn't have any others, and I didn't want to wait. Mine has a decent turned finish on it. The threads leave a little to be diesired but they are serviceable. If these barrels are made of Cro-Moly then the finish is actually pretty good . That material is extremely hard to get a decent finish on no matter what.

I will make some kind of front sight that goes onto the front step, and then put a receiver sight on the receiver. I am probably going to use a Ruger rear sight like the one off my Gunsite Carbine, or the Mini 14. They are relatively inexpensive and will be more than enough for this gun. I am also considering putting a red dot sight on it, as that would make it more usable in the dark.

Lots of ways to go on this project and I have some good ideas, we'll see how it turns out.

Randy

dano440

01-11-2012, 12:45 AM

I worked on mine some more tonight still trying to fit the front sight on and get the rear sight to fit the barrel and the stock. the original sight was to small diameter but got another one out of the bone pile the front one I hope with a little work will fit. the magazine adapter I messed with a little and I think i am ready to drill some holes to make it stay in the old magazine well

39519

still a lot more work to go.

W.R.Buchanan

01-11-2012, 01:36 AM

I ended up going back in the shop this evening and filed on the barrel threads until I got the barrel to thread all the way into the action. It took me about 1 hour total. It is easy to make head space on this project as all you have to do is screw the barrel down on a cartridge that is .898-.900 and then back the barrel out about 1/8 turn. Max length on a .45 ACP chamber is .920. So 16 TPI equals .062 per turn 1/8 of .062 is about .007 so .900 + 1/8 turn should be about .907 and this is in the middle of the go/ no go regime.

I still have to face a little bit off my lock nut to get it to have the spanner wrench slot in the down position so it doesn't show when in the stock.

I keep looking at the ejector problem and I think an ejector made just about 1/8" longer than the stock one might just do what we want. My kit ejector will not go into the action, and would require some filing to even get it to fit. I don't like the way it sticks out in the breeze and it would be just begging to get picked off.

I saw how the Enfield conversion works, but that style won't work on a Mauser due to the presence of the locking lug. A similar one might work if the spring loaded plunger was a blade instead of a pin and could be prevented from rotating. More thought required.

I also spent some time polishing my feed ramp, just cuz, and took my trigger apart and buffed it and cleaned up the sear a little. I had already done the sear on the striker but more work is required. The trigger spring is pretty stiff on mine so I will be removing some of it to lower the pull weight. This is simple to do by just grinding it shorter about 1/16" at a time until you get it where you want it. Shouldn't go below about 3-4 lbs on a trigger like this. I might just get a Dayton-Traister trigger for $30 for it, and get rid of the military double pull trigger altogether.

I have a gun show this weekend and I need to pick up a 1911 mag and an extended mag release.

SHOT Show next week so everything comes to a halt for that trip.

Randy

dano440

01-11-2012, 09:40 AM

I altered my military trigger to a single stage and done some buffing on it and some stoning. still have the heavy spring.

W.R.Buchanan

01-14-2012, 04:41 PM

I went to my gun show today and bought an 8 rnd Novak magazine for $20, an extra ejector housing to modify and a striker spring I can cut down for a lighter trigger pull.

I saw one extended mag release and the guy wanted $30 for it. He also had some stock mag releases and wanted $24 for them so I dropped it back in the bin instantly, as I was completely offended by the price.

I will get one from Brownells for half that! I need a few other things anyway.

Going to play with my new parts in the garage.

Randy

dano440

01-15-2012, 12:46 AM

I got my sight put on today and finish pinning the magazine adapter in. I hope to take it out and shoot it Sunday afternoon. if things go well I maybe firing up the bluing tank next weekend, if I get all the prep work done in time.

deltaenterprizes

01-15-2012, 03:15 PM

I hope you plan to remove the aluminum adapter before bluing!

W.R.Buchanan

01-15-2012, 07:01 PM

dano440

01-16-2012, 10:04 AM

Well after playing with my parts I found out virtually everything I bought at the gun show was junk!

My Novak magazine has a follower that allows the round to fall forward just after the feed lips release it which doesn't allow the extractor to pick it up. Result; jam.

I messed with this for an hour and then realized after reviewing the hundreds of mags in the brownells catalog that this Novak mag was the only one with this type of follower. I ordered a Pachmayer follower for $4.00.

My new striker spring was from a Springfield and is too small in dia so now I have an extra spring for my Springfield.

I also bought an extra ejector box for $5. I am looking at attaching it to the front of my existing one to move the bolt stop and Ejector forward into the thumb slot on the receiver. This looks like it may work, and would cure the hoakey ejector problem.

We'll see.

Randy

let me know how the Pachmayer follower works out, I am curious. I played with mine this weekend a little on Sunday, it feed round nose great and semi-wad cutter 200 grain great, flat round nose and the truncated cone nosed dived and jammed on the feed ramp. I am using those cheap magazines from Sarco. The original sights were right on target, bad part my eyesight getting pretty bad and the rear sight is real fuzzy, now looking at a rear peep sight hoping to overcome this problem. it works for me on my Marlins 81 and 336.

it sucks to get old (eyesight anyways)

Dano

W.R.Buchanan

01-16-2012, 01:27 PM

Dan: I was looking at installing the rear sight from a Mini14 or RGS on he rear ring of mine. These sights are relatively inexpensive but you have to go directly to Ruger for the part as nobody else has stock. they are also very small and don't look out of place on the gun. I think they are made by XS for Ruger. Same sight for Mini 14 or RGS carbine.

I have the one off my RGS which I am not using right now, and that was what I was looking at. Only problem I found was the sight has to be mounted above the the stripper clip cutout. to get it far enough forward so it doesn't foul the bolt handle. This would require a small adapter plate attached to the rear receiver ring to mount the sight to. The adapter plate would have to be contoured to ride the rear portion of the rear receiver ring which on my gun is not symetrical or flat. It would be a little challenging to get right.

There are other XS brand Peep sights that might go on there too, or a Lyman receiver sight would go too. I was looking at one of those also as I have one of those in the box too.

I like the simpler XS style sight for this application as it is very minimal, and is the right size for a really small rifle.

I am also looking for a side mount rail to mount a small scope or red dot.

All of this will have to wait til next week as I am leaving for the SHOT Show tomarrow and won't be back until Friday. I am however going to stop at Richard's gun stocks on the way to look at, and maybe buy a stock for this gun and my Springfield. I'll post what happens when I get back.

Dan, there is very little that doesn't suck, about getting old! I am experiencing several symptoms as I write this.

Randy

Clark

01-20-2012, 07:57 PM

In late 2000 early 2001, I built a 45acp with:
a) 1903 Turkish Mauser action and stock, the rifles were then $50 at BIG5 or 4 for $100 delivered to C&Rs from Century.
b) Shilen .452" groove 28" 16" twist bull barrel from Brownells for $104
c) A .469" straight fluted reamer from Boeing surplus $1.
d) A .45acp throater with .4415 PILOT from Brownells $30.

I wanted to make it accurate, so I made the chamber the same size as the ammo, 10 or 20 times tighter than the SAAMI fit.
I saw that the 45acp brass was going coming out of a .467" carbide sizing die and springing back to .469"".
I have to resize the loaded ammo.
I load to ~ 50,000 psi, well below the primer falling out.
The groups look good at 100 yards.
The best accuracy is with 230 gr FMJ.

TCLouis

01-20-2012, 09:05 PM

Clark

Any measured or guessed velocities on that load?

What is a good looking group at 100 yards when converted to inches?

Curious . . . well OK, nosey minds wanta know.

W.R.Buchanan

01-21-2012, 11:15 PM

I picked out a stock from Richard's Micro Fit Gunstock seconds last Tuesday on our way to the SHOT Show in Vegas.

I got a Camoflage Laminate Classic Sporter for $79.00+tax. Walked out with it.

I had to order the stock for my 03-A3 as they had nothing in stock whatsoever for it in the style I wanted, which is similar to the Griffin & Howe Springfield Sporters of old.

I consider this type of rifle to be the quintesential American Sporting Rifle, and since I could never afford one actually made by Griffin & Howe building my own is the next best thing and I get the satisfaction of the build. I just ordered a Timney Trigger for that gun also so it should be coming together in a few months..

Richard's is a very small outfit and they basically occupy a old house on San Fernando Raod in Sunland CA. He has about 6 or so employees, and has orders coming out of his ears. Literally every square inch of space in this place has either a stock, a blank or is full of wood dust.

They do however have a zillion stocks to chose from. Most are blanked out on the outside of the stock and await inletting to make them action specific. There is also alot of unmachined blanks in several racks that stretch from floor to ceiling.

If you call them you can find out if they have a stock ready made in a style and type of laminate or wood that would suit you and not have to wait thru the lead time of having one cut for you.

I talked to Randy Boyd of Boyd Stocks at the show and he was very cool. He gave me some pointers on using a painted finish that he uses that is so durable you can soak the stock in gasoline for a week and it won't even touch the wood. This sounds like the hot tip for this gun after I have arrived at the final color

The Camo Laminate is pretty cool looking and I saw several at the Show that were done in the same laminate but were finished.

IN the pics you can see mine is not finished at all. There will be some fitting to be done to get it in the stock as regular Mausers don't have the barrel lock ring.

When finished it will be much darker. All the ones I saw at the show were only finished with a clear coat which darkened the color but it was still way too light for my tastes.

You will notice that I have about 6" to cut off the fore-end. This left over piece will be the test piece for staining.

I had to order the Springfield stock, and it will be made off a pretty nice piece of fancy grade walnut. I expect to see this stock in about 6 weeks, and given the amount of work these people are doing I think that is a fair lead time. I am in no hurry on that project anyway so the wait will be no big deal. This place is about 1 hour from my house so they will call me when it is done, and I'll drive down and pick it up. That way there won't be any surprises, and if it is not up to snuff I can reject it there rather than having to haggle over the phone after it is delivered. I always like to see things like this before I buy them. It just makes it so everyone is happy.

It was $114.95 +tax.

Randy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f1b7f4147585.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3544)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f1b7f533d0f3.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3545)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f1b7f8a7de17.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3546)

deltaenterprizes

01-21-2012, 11:32 PM

W.R.Buchanan

01-21-2012, 11:52 PM

On another note, I found some things at the show that were directly applicable to this project.

I have been in a quandry on sights from the beginning. I wanted an aperature on the rear and some kind of battle sight on the front which I would integrate onto the flash hider. I found exactly what I was looking for on the last day.

Some might have heard of Smith Enterprises? They make a variety of doodads for Garands and M14's including sights flash hiders and compensators. I have one of their compensators for my Garand.

Well they just happen to have the coolest little front sight for an M14 I have ever seen. It has either a tritium line on it or a tritium dot, which makes these the ideal sight for night time usage with an aperature rear sight. I tried very hard to get the guy from Smith to just give me one as he had a bunch of them just laying there on the table, but no luck.

I am now having trouble deciding on the verticle line or the dot. I'm thinkin' dot will eb easiest to use in low light, as you just put the dot on the target and yank the trigger.

I also bought a Chip McCormick 8 rnd mag at the Show for $17.

All the piece parts I ordered from Brownells have been just meandering their way to the west, and even though I expected them to be mailed Priority Mail, they still aren't here. USPS slips again.

When they do arrive I will have my mag release, and will be able to get that part of the build going. You really need to fit the mag release before you drill for the pins. That way you are insured of getting the whole thing in the right place.

Randy

dano440

01-22-2012, 01:45 PM

sound good Randy, I would like to see some more pictures as you get your other parts. nice looking stock too.

I have been Slow Rust bluing mine this weekend and now down to the small parts, barrel and receiver in now done also done a NEF 20 gauge barrel for cousin of mine.

And now I am doing the bolt cap, and pin along with cocking piece and the trigger guard and trigger, and as a favor for a friend doing a Uzi and grease gun magazines.

dano440

01-22-2012, 01:48 PM

I got to shoot my conversion on Wednesday the 18th! What a blast, like shooting a 22LR, no recoil, mild report.
Open sights at 25 yds 2.5'' groups. The front sight is hard to see, I need to highlight it with some orange, red or yellow paint.
Mag feeds fine with 5 rounds but with 8 it nose dives and jams against the feed ramp. I plan to make 8 dummy rounds and try a different mag.
Any other suggestions?

I too experience some feeding issues with a 7 round magazine the first one wants to nose dive and the second one too but after that all five feed really well I was blaming the cheap 7 round magazine I got from Sarco for $7

W.R.Buchanan

01-27-2012, 06:07 PM

I got all of my piece parts finally.

The magazine follower was a complete failure, so it is going back. The Novak mag works just fine and in fact it worked better than the Chip McCormik mag I got for this project,.

After getting all of the mag release parts installed, I started playing with the placement of the magazine adapter.

I have questions and maybe Larry Gibson can elaborate.

There is a lot of slop in the magazines placement when in the adapter. It will move up or down about .090/ 3/32".

If the mag is all the way down then the mag adapters step has to be about .08-.09 below the mag well so that the bolt doesn't run into the magazine. I spaced it down by taping two 3/32" drills onto the step, and clamping the adapter in place, and running the bolt. It actually worked after I re-profiled the extractor a little more. This is with the action assembled outside the stock.

What I need to know, is in a normal installation does the mag well of the receiver bottom out into the bottom of the receiver or does the stock space it off.

Obviously if the stock spaces it away then the adapter doesn't need to be spaced down. But if it doesn't space the receiver and mag well apart ,,,then,,, did you guys space your mag adapter down or how did you cope with this issue?

I finally got my action into the stock. It took some filing and beating and I got it in all the way and the top and bottom of the action appears to be spaced apart a little. Much more filing and fitting is required. I think Richards 99% drop in is more like 95% as there is alot of interference.

It has become obvious that I need to completely install the action into the stock before I continue on with the kit installation.

I can't believe how cockeyed this action is. The mag well is a few degrees off strait in line with the barrel and the sides of the front ring are not parallel to the barrel. When the mag adapter is installed into the mag well the magazine is 1-2* out of alignment to the barrel.

I was told by someone who should know that these Turkish actions were made in Germany. I have to disagree as I have never seen anything made in Germany that was as far out of kilter as this action is. War or not the Germans just didn't do work this shoddy, even if it was going to Turkey. I can however believe that it would be the product of Turkish hands, and I have seen many things made there, and short of Cotton Towels the vast majority is Iffy.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

01-28-2012, 03:29 PM

Went back after dinner and was running some parts on the CNC lathe that were taking care of themselves, so I had time to fit the action into the stock a little better. Still some more work left on fitting but it is just about there.

I answered my earlier questions about the Mag adapter position.

I still have to relieve the barrel channel to accommidate the barrel lock nut and the largest section of the barrel. The stock will probably be cut off just behind the first step on the barrel so I won't have to go further with the rout out of the barrel channel.

The project progresses.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-03-2012, 08:28 PM

Making some head way on my project. got the trigger guard into the stock and nearly got the action in as well. Just a little left to do on that part.

Got the stock cleared for the barrel nut and will be rasping on the barrel channel tonight. I bought a barrel channel tool from Gunline 35 years ago and have never used it until now. HA!

Still trying to figure out where I should cut the fore-end off at?

Hoping it will become more a little more obvious when the action is completely in the stock.

I want the sling swivels mounted on the side of the gun. This is so you can carry it without the magazine stuck in your back. This would get old real fast. I don't want a sling swivel stuck on the side of the buttstock so I will probably rout out a channel in the stock for a rod to wrap the end of the nylon sling around. Kind of like a Swedish Mauser Carbines sling arraingement.

I am also getting closer to a solution to the ejector. It involves use of two ejector boxes mounted in line one in front of the other. The rear one is full length and the front one is cutoff near the front of the screw hole. This will allow the new ejector and bolt stop to sit right in the thumb slot and limit the bolt travel to just behind the magazine. It looks like it will work, but it will take some machining and some welding to get it done. Getting the springs to still work is the challenge. Without them the whole thing is useless.

Here's some more pix

Randy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c7b66a4007.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3738)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c7b81b4e95.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3739)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2c7b949e267.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3740)

silverman1

02-04-2012, 09:52 PM

I did one on a 93 action.
Took a lot of tweeking to get it to feed ,and eject.
I used a type 99 Arisaka ejector ,it shortened the stroke 3/4 in
Had to fill in behind ,and in front of the mag .you needed tweezers if a case fell in there.

roysha

02-08-2012, 01:05 PM

Earlier I had mentioned the fact that my conversion had some trouble feeding the RF, TC, and SWC bullets and I was looking for a RN mold that more or less duplicated the MIL RN bullet since it fed flawlessly.

I decided to go with the Lee RN with the 1R nose. I use 4.2 grains 700X, std LP primer and the bullet is cast from straight WWs,(more or less). Works great! Hits the 100yd. gong with about as much authority as my 44 MAG from an 8 3/8" barrel, (10 gr, Unique behind 429421 bullet) from the sounds of and it is a ton of fun to shoot.

Now I just need to finish everything. Since I installed the JAP ejector I have not had any problem with the cases falling into the action but I may put a filler in there anyway.

dano440

02-14-2012, 12:54 PM

Making some head way on my project. got the trigger guard into the stock and nearly got the action in as well. Just a little left to do on that part.

Got the stock cleared for the barrel nut and will be rasping on the barrel channel tonight. I bought a barrel channel tool from Gunline 35 years ago and have never used it until now. HA!

Still trying to figure out where I should cut the fore-end off at?

Hoping it will become more a little more obvious when the action is completely in the stock.

I want the sling swivels mounted on the side of the gun. This is so you can carry it without the magazine stuck in your back. This would get old real fast. I don't want a sling swivel stuck on the side of the buttstock so I will probably rout out a channel in the stock for a rod to wrap the end of the nylon sling around. Kind of like a Swedish Mauser Carbines sling arraingement.

I am also getting closer to a solution to the ejector. It involves use of two ejector boxes mounted in line one in front of the other. The rear one is full length and the front one is cutoff near the front of the screw hole. This will allow the new ejector and bolt stop to sit right in the thumb slot and limit the bolt travel to just behind the magazine. It looks like it will work, but it will take some machining and some welding to get it done. Getting the springs to still work is the challenge. Without them the whole thing is useless.

Here's some more pix

Randy

how is your project coming along now? any progress?

I had mine out and shot it about 150 rounds now and enjoying it. I have not pursued the filling the void behind the magazine, I got everything blued and it put back together, but that is about it. the weather has been hindrance here, it's hard to get motivated lately.

W.R.Buchanan

02-14-2012, 08:20 PM

Still working on fitting the stock. I worked on the barrel channel last Sat and got it near where it needs to be.

I have to go back in and move the cutout for the mag catch forward a few mor e .000. the mag adapter is seating a little farther forward than it was when I first put it together.

Mine seems to like the Novak magazine better than the CM mag. It feeds SWC's and Ball rounds equally as well. The CM mag doesn't feed anything because the rear of the mag needs to be altered to clear the bolt. If it is low enough in the adapter to strip the rounds, they hit too low on the feed ramp and bind up. Also the follower in that mag is not as smooth as the Novak one and wants to push it's way forward which won't work at all.

I will know more as soon as I shoot the thing.

I can't believe there is so much difference in 1911 mags. You'd think they had this stuff sussed out and standardized after 100 years?

Still lots to do. Going to alter my bolt handle pretty soon, maybe next Sat.

Maybe some more tonight,,, oops,,, Valentines day,,, maybe tomarrow.

Randy

dano440

02-15-2012, 04:08 PM

so what are you doing to your bolt handle. I got a little crazy with mine. since lately I have more time than money. I took a old bolt handle I had cut off of last years Mauser project ( 308 win sporter) and added on to it using a grade 8 bolt and extended it out about 2 inches, then put it in the forge and heated it up and flatten it out and squared the round shank in to small rectangle then put a small curve in it the I cut off the old bolt and and welded it on a little filing and shaping it turned out pretty good

W.R.Buchanan

02-16-2012, 07:34 PM

I'm going to duplicate the standard Mauser sporting rifle configuration which is strait down at an angle out from the square lug. The handle will probably be at 20-30 degrees off vertical but strait otherwise. Not going to sweep this one back like I've done before.

I have several cut off bolt handles but none of them are long enough to transplant, so I'll probably chuck up some material in the lathe and hack on it until it is some what close to my mental picture.

You can also chuck one up in a drill motor and go after it with a belt sander or sidewinder. I've made several like that in the past.

They all are different and finding the right one for the particular application is sometimes just trial and error.

I know this one is going to be just a little longer than I usually do so there is more leverage to run this old action ,,, smoother.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-18-2012, 03:32 PM

OK for some of you who would like to see the process of making a bolt handle here's how I did it.

First I looked everywhere in my shop for something that would be easy to use , I started out thinking I would just use the cutoff bolt handle and extend it and reuse it, however I abandoned that idea after seeing too many problems. I couldn't find a suitable piece of stock to make a complete bolt handle with knob either.

All the rage now in the Tactical Rifle world is large bolt handles, and usually these are screw-on knobs requiring a thread on the end of the handle.

I had done my Swedish Mauser this way and had a smaller knob left over from that job, so I decided I would make another bolt handle like that.

I started with a piece of 1/2" rod and chucked it in the lathe, I turned the end down to 5/16" and ran a die onto the spud for threads. I then took a cutoff tool and undercut the threads at their base so the knob would thread all the way on and seat..

Next I took a radius tool and made a cut behind the shoulder I had previously formed. This made a nice transisiton for the tapered part of the handle to the round knob.

At this point I had a rod with threads on the end and a half circular cut, so I cut the part off about 4" long and chucked the threaded end in an electric drill motor. I then stood in front of my belt grinder and ground a taper above the previously machined features until it finally blended with the radius I had cut earlier.

I had previously cut the old bolt handle off even with the outside of the receiver. I then decided how I wanted the bolt to look when done and then welded the handle onto the bolt.

You'll note that I heliarced the two pieces together. Even though this did turn the rear of the bolt blue it probably didn't affect the heat treat that much. It was not that hard in the first place as I could easily file it. If I see any significant wear on the cocking cam after some use I might send the bolt out and get it case hardened, but I doubt that will happen as I don't see this gun being shot thousands of times.

After the weld was cooled I ground some on it and filed some on it and used my Scotchbrite wheel to blend in some of the weld. I got it close enough so the bolt would close nearly all the way and here is what it looks like.(see pics) I still have to go back and remove a little more metal on the underside so that the bolt will close the last few thousnadths as the safety will not lock the bolt closed as the slots don't line up yet , but this is minor and you can see what it will look like in the end. I had origianlly wanted to have to handle go strait down liek the Mauser Sporting rifles I saw at the SHOT Show last month however I wanted to avoid at all cost having the handle look like it was sloping forward. I hate this look! So when I set up the weld I slanted the handle back about 1 degree. You can see it in the pic below, and I have to say I think it was a good choice.

I am not a big proponent of forging a bolt handles. It will certainly ruin the heat treat and I have seen very few non professional forge jobs that look good. Cutting and welding a handle on is my preferred way of doing this job, and I think you'll agree it looks pretty good.

Also it gives you the freedom to create your own bolt handle shape. There are also premade bolt handles you can buy from Brownells, and some of them would take a lot longer to make than what I did, but for what I was trying to accomplish on this project this will work out fine.

The first bolt handle I ever made was for my Rem 514, and I made it buy chucking a piece of steel rod in an electric drill and grinding on it with a sidewinder until it got to where I liked the shape. I welded it on wiht a torch and wasn't worried in the slightest about the the heat treat simply because there was none on that gun. It is still on there, and where as I don't like the shape now as much as I did when I did it in 1976, I may just saw it off a do something a little nicer some day. I know I can do better now.

It's just not hard to do and the above process took me all of 1 hour to complete.

I hope this encourages some of you to go a little deeper into your projects and make something a little different.

Here's some pics.

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

02-18-2012, 10:45 PM

Decided to go finish the bolt handle today. Finished up nice.

Now I'm looking at sights.

My original idea was to use a Lyman 57M that I have for the rear and then build some kind of Muzzle attachment like a flash hider to clamp onto the muzzle and then have an M14 front sight from Smith Enterprises clamped to a dovetail on the muzzle adapter.

I like the M14 sight over the M1 sight as it looks the same, it is just smaller.

They have several and the ones I am interested have either a Tritium Dot or a Vertical Line. Either one would be great for the night.

Randy

Max Brand

02-19-2012, 04:15 AM

My hat is off to you, this is one nice looking project. I am anxious to see what the finished product will look like and will continue to follow your progress. Lookin' good!

W.R.Buchanan

02-21-2012, 12:01 AM

I finally located my mag adapter in the mag well today.

I did not use the three pin method of securing it. I used the three flathead screw method.

I chucked the mag well and adapter in the mill and drilled and tapped 3 10-32 holes into it and then countersunk the 3 holes so 10-32 hex drive flathead screws were below flush.

This will allow me to assemble and disassemble this unit as many times as necessary to get this whole thing to work right.

So far my Novak magazine is the only one that feeds rounds correctly. I have 4 dummy rounds assembled and I need to make a few more as two are semi wadcutters and two are 230 gr RN's. The RN's feed perfectly nearly every time. SWC's feed sometimes.

The Chip McCormmik mag sticks up too high and won't allow the bolt to close. I hacked on it to try to get it to work, and basically made a mess of it so now I can't even send it back to Brownells. Luckily they have more Novak mags. I'll get 2 more for this gun, and save the CM mag for a 1911 I might get someday.

Also I can't just shove a mag into this gun, I have to depress the mag release button a little to get it started then I can shove it home. Pops right out when released, especially if there is a round still in the mag.

Next I have to start bringing the stock down to final fit and outside shape, and this will also include making a cutout for the receiver sight.

I also have to mount the rear sight on the receiver which will involve Drilling and Tapping the receiver. Hope it's not as hard as the Springfield was. (I don't think it is).

I'm still in a quandry on the front sling attachment. I want the sling on the left side of the rifle. I can make a cutout on the left side of the buttstock fairly easily but the front attachment is eluding me. Maybe Velcro ?

Randy

dano440

02-22-2012, 06:01 PM

Look like I need to take some picture of mine on how it turned out, I don't think mine is as nice as your turned out. it's been a nice winter project so far. I have waiting for the weather to warm up so I can get out and play with my rifle a little bit.

W.R.Buchanan

02-23-2012, 12:04 AM

Dan: Mine is along way from done.

If your's shoots and feeds well then you are light years ahead of where I'm at.

Cosmetics are achieved by keeping after something until it looks the way you want it too. I get ideas from pictures, everybody else can do this too.

Sometimes that happens, often it doesn't. But you are a better craftsman everytime you try.

Still you can always go back and redo something like a stock that doesn't look the way you want it to. Sand paper fixes all kinds of flaws.

Mine has a $80 laminated stock on it that didn't fit this action all that well. I covered up as much of the bad parts as I could. I didn't have a mil stock to use or I probably would have gone that way.

No reason why a Mil stock can't be finished to a high gloss oil finish. A bottle of BC Tru-Oil and some sand paper is $5. Elbow grease is free.

We still want pics! I refuse to be the only one posting pics on this thread. The idea of the pics is to share ideas, I leave them on for a few weeks and then delete them so I can put other pics on and share more ideas.

The thread is entitled "Rhineland 45ACP" Not "Randy's Gun Project."

I learned something very valuable in the Cub Scouts in 1958. Our troop made individual characters for a troop totem pole. Each of us 8 year olds made our own totem with virtually no help from the Scout Master. We showed up at the big meeting and next to the other troops totems ours looked like pure WKRP! They literally laughed at our pole.

We were all crying until we found out that the other troops all had their dads make the totems, and the kids didn't do anything.

Our scout master took us out side and told us to never be ashamed of what we made ourselves, and the object of the task was for us to learn how to use tools and do the best we could.

Our Scoutmaster went to the head guy and told him that we did all the work ourselves and the others had their dads do the work.

We won the day, as everyone else was disqualified!

Since that day in 1958 I have never been ashamed of anything I made. If it was that bad, I threw it away or redid it until it looked good. I learn something new everytime and that's what it is all about.

Randy

plainsman456

02-23-2012, 12:56 AM

I like the way it is turning out.Sweet
The receiver shouldn't be all that hard and you will be ok on the cocking ramp as well.

dano440

02-24-2012, 04:19 PM

I am fairly pleased with how the my stock turned out but still need to have the cosmoline melted out of it which i think i will wrap in paper towels this summer and put it in my car and melt it out that way. bluing turned out good on everything but the bolt. (German slow rust bluing) I just go in to much of a hurry on the bolt, I might go back later and redo it right. the magazine adapter really worked me over. I make mind fit as far forward and I could filing sanding grinding until it butted up with front of the box, then drilled one hole for one pin then played with it until I got a angle that would work well feeding then drilled a second hole and pinned it at that angle. it don't like trunkcated cones or flat nosed bullet but ball or round nose no problem. I have been going to fill the void behind the magazine just have not figured out with what. I think i did a little sanding on the feed rail just in the front of the feed ramp ever so lightly. i still have the cleaning rod to shorten and re-thread and get it put on and I think I will be done, until summer baking in the car to get the grease out. then stain it and tung oil it.

W.R.Buchanan

02-24-2012, 11:17 PM

I played with mine for 2 hours today after making a bunch of dummy rounds.

Mine nose dives the first few rounds with 8 in the mag. They nose dive right into the feed ramp.

I am probably going to make some little piece of metal to sit right in front of the magazine, (similar to the idea of plugging the rear of the mag adapter) so when a round trys to dive, it is held up in place by this filler piece.

Either that or weld on the feed ramp and make it longer. I have to grind on it anyway and reduce the lower sections angle to be more like the upper section.

From about 5 rounds in the mag down to 1 it feeds just fine. I even got the Chip M magazine to feed. You can even work the bolt slowly and watch the cartridge get spit up under the extractor. (Most of the time.)

Randy

W.R.Buchanan

03-02-2012, 12:27 AM

played with mine for a couple of hours yesterday. Made a small feedramp extension to try to cure the nose diving of a full mag. It didn't work!

The problem with more than 5 rounds in the mag the top round is not supported sufficiently to keep it from tipping forward when the bolt pushes on it. This is caused by too much spring tension when the mag approaches full. As a result the round pivots forward on it's rim and picks up the front of the feed ramp and jams.

It picked up the front of the extension just as easily and it was even with the front of the mag.

Mine feeds great with 5 or less rounds in the mag, so I'll probably try reducing the spring pressure in the mag.

I also started lapping the action to get some kind of smoothness out of it. Got a ways to go on that part of the build, but after one application of coarse lapping compound it is better. So I will continue trying for complete contact of the bolt luggs which will make closing the bolt much easier.

Also deburring the rear of the bare bolt so it rotates in the bolt shroud better is helping cut the drag down. I also radiused the front of the firing pin keeper/sear piece so it would not hang up on the bolt shroud, it works better too, but still not the way I want it. I have several Mauser rifles, and all of them except this one are glass smooth.

This one is like broken glass.

I am also going to cut my firing pin spring for a lighter trigger pull which will make it run smoother as well.

Lots of little tweeks to do on this one to get it nicer. I am still working on the feeding issue, and when that is good I need to work on making a new ejector box and bolt stop.

Randy

badgeredd

03-10-2012, 02:36 PM

Your experience with a full magazine mirrors mine. I just received the magazine I had ordered for experimentation purposes. HOPEFULLY, lightening up the follower spring will cure the full magazine feed problem. I do have my doubts though. I figured that if it comes to it, I'll just block the magazine for a 5 round capacity and learn to live with it. I was half tempted to buy a high capacity mag at the last gun show to see if I could at least increase the total I could have available, but the mag I saw was a bit pricey to mess up if it didn't work.

Edd

W.R.Buchanan

03-10-2012, 07:27 PM

dano440

03-13-2012, 11:51 AM

I have done some playing with mine over the last couple of weeks I took some bedding compound in filled the gap in front between the feed ramp and magazine adapter so the bullet don't have anything to catch on it help with some flat nose bullet, round nose bullets are no problem. I still need to do something with the well in the back of mag adapter.

badgeredd

03-15-2012, 06:30 PM

Ed: the whole idea is to get the follower to not tip forward. If the follower was to run strait in line with the mag and not tip this would not be a problem. The way the spring is wound is the other problem as it it situated so it pushes on one end of the follower and not the other.Exactly what I perceive to be the problem.

As the round count goes up the ability of the mag follower to stay strait goes down. Even the Novak mag I have which has the best follower I have found still does this. I was thinking that since the compressed spring seems to be a portion of the problem that perhaps a larger capacity magazine would allow one to load a couple or more rounds without a problem. The problem with that is a longer magazine wouldn't improve the appearance of the firearm IMHO.

Maybe a solid follower that cannot tilt would be the answer, otherwise we might just as well use Govt mags and down load them to 5 rounds. I believe you are correct. Something solid and long enough to resist tipping should work.

Still,,, I can make it better, I just doubt I can make it prefect.

Randy

I have some super cheap mags that may end up being part of the experimenting with follower configuration. One thing I have found is the old GI magazines seem to function much better in general than many newer ones. There is a noticeable difference in the feed lip shape and design. I recently bought a new Colt magazine which function perfectly...as long as I loaded only 5 rounds.

Edd

Larry Gibson

03-15-2012, 08:51 PM

Edd

My experience is also that the GI mag performs best. I believe it is because the GI mag holds the round in the mag longer giving it better chance of slipping under the extractor and putting the bullet nose closer to the chamber.

Larry Gibson

W.R.Buchanan

03-16-2012, 02:54 PM

So the GI mags have longer feed lips? That would make sense.

You see this is only a problem with short rounds. With the standard Mauser 8mm bottleneck round the bullet was into the chamber a good ways before the feedlips transfered control of the round to the extractor.

With this setup the magazine has to spit the round up under the extractor as it goes by and we all know this is a hit and miss arraingement wiht the short round. If the round was further up into the extractor before it was released it would have a much better chance of being caught.

I have also noticed that if the round maintains it's "angle" IE the angle in the mag, that it will be usually be accepted by the bolt face, if the round tilts forward at all then the top of the rim is forward of the extractor.

I have a question for the more experienced among us. Why is it, or more properly what prevents the Mauser Extractor from snapping over a rim of a cartridge unless it is fed from the magazine? A Mauser must feed from the magazine, IE controlled round feed. However newer designs like the Springfield or even my RGS77 which are still CRF will feed anything thrown into the breech. What is the difference between the two styles of extractors? I can see little difference on the ones I have . But obviously there is some difference.

It would serve to reason that any round that was pushed into the breech and actually made it into the chamber would be able to go to battery if the extractor would snap over the rim.

As it sits the Mauser extractor preevents this from happening. Even my Husqvarna .30-06 1951 mfg. will not feed except from the mag.

All opinions are welcome I will sort and figure out which reasons are actually valid and get back to you. I'll even consult my Mauser book by Kuhnhausen to see if he has any answers.

Randy