Need a grip screw- Bayard pistol

[Jal5]

I need to find one for this Bayard pistol in 32 ACP. I can get duplicated grip to replace the cracked one but also need a screw. any ideas where I might find one? Thanks.

Joe

[rintinglen]

You might try an e-mail to e-Gun Parts. Sometimes they have small odd lot parts for obsolete guns that they do not bother to advertise. If you have a fastener supply house near by, take the one you have and see if they can match it. They may even have it in stock. Failing that, any Machinist worth his lathe can make one--but it won't be cheap.

[Ragnarok]

If you can figure out what thread it is..often you can buy or find a screw with the needed threads..and use a drill press to turn the head to shape and size with a file..recut the screw slot with a fine hacksaw blade..and cut off to proper length.

If you cannot find a screw with the proper threads..maybe you can buy a die with the right threads and thread yourself another screw..then shape it to what you need.

[Jal5]

You might try an e-mail to e-Gun Parts. Sometimes they have small odd lot parts for obsolete guns that they do not bother to advertise. If you have a fastener supply house near by, take the one you have and see if they can match it. They may even have it in stock. Failing that, any Machinist worth his lathe can make one--but it won't be cheap.

Thanks I will try that, didn't know that they did that. No fastener supply places around here. Joe

[Jal5]

e-Gunparts does not have the screws but they do have the grip replacements :(

[Jal5]

Thought I would post here about my problem in case there are any other ideas out there. See this link
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1438443#post1438443

thanks. Joe

[JIMinPHX]

Do you know what thread it is??

[Jal5]

From my measurements:
Dia. = 2.667 mm
5 threads
head = round flat head type = 4.953mm

I cross ref. those measurements on a metric chart at Maryland Metrics website and the 2.66 dia. matches up with a std. ref. D type, metric pitch 0.45 coarse, 0.25, 0.35 fine
total length incl. head = 0.211in=5.3594mm

Joe

[JIMinPHX]

The most common 3mm screw thread would be M3 x 0.5. The OD spec for a class 4g or 6g thread of that size would be about 2.87-2.98mm. Your OD comes up a little short of that. If the threads look worn, then maybe that's what it was. The difference in diameter is only about 2 sheets of paper. The next standard size below M3 is M2.5. The max OD on that thread size is 2.48mm, which is below what you have.

I'm not understanding your statement of "5 threads". 5 threads over how much distance?

I also don't know what chart you are referring to on the Maryland Metrics website.

I don't understand what a "std. ref. D type" is.

A link to the proper page on that website might help me to understand what you are looking at.

[Jal5]

The most common 3mm screw thread would be M3 x 0.5. The OD spec for a class 4g or 6g thread of that size would be about 2.87-2.98mm. Your OD comes up a little short of that. If the threads look worn, then maybe that's what it was. The difference in diameter is only about 2 sheets of paper. The next standard size below M3 is M2.5. The max OD on that thread size is 2.48mm, which is below what you have.

I'm not understanding your statement of "5 threads". 5 threads over how much distance?

I also don't know what chart you are referring to on the Maryland Metrics website.

I don't understand what a "std. ref. D type" is.

A link to the proper page on that website might help me to understand what you are looking at.

Jim the page I was referencing is http://mdmetric.com/tech/tic1c.htm and going down the chart the one closest to the OD that I measured is 0.1024in/2.6mm.

The total length of the screw including the head = 5.3594mm
the head itself measures 2.37mm
the length of the shaft therefore is 2.98mm
there are 5 threads per the 2.98mm
this is a tiny screw

I hope this helps to clarify things.
Joe

[JIMinPHX]

If the screw is metric, then that's about a 0.6mm pitch. If it's an SAE thread, then it's about a 42tpi pitch. Male threads tend to have a major diameter (OD) that is just below the nominal dimension, but almost never over the nominal dimension at all. So, if you are measuring 2.66mm, then it should not be a 2.6mm thread. They list a 2.8mm x .53mm pitch screw (that I never heard of before) that might be what you are looking for.

An American #4-40 screw is .106-.111" on the OD with a 40tpi pitch. That's 2.69-2.81mm on the OD. That's pretty close on both the OD & the pitch. It may fit & you are pretty likely to find that size at your local hardware store.

I have a pretty easy time believing that a screw that started out life with an OD in the 2.69-2.81mm range ended up being 2.66 on the OD after a number of years.

[JIMinPHX]

That's a cute looking little pistol that you have there by the way.

[Jal5]

thanks Jim for helping to ID that screw I will let you know how my search turns out.
gun is 1908-1910 era Bayard so it has been around a little while! Still shoots pretty well too.

Joe

[JIMinPHX]

If worse comes to worse, you could run a #4-40 tap through there & take off the little whisker of difference between that thread & the existing thread, if there is any difference at all. The amount of material that you would take off would be so small that an original screw should still fit normally & a #4-40 would be guaranteed to fit like a dream.

[DCP]

Take the screw to the hardware store (Not big box stores)

See if they have some small metric nuts to fit it
or buy or borrow a metric thread gauge

Now you know the thread size. Hopefully

:popcorn:
I could make you one on my Sherline lathe
I would Guess 5 to 6 hour LOL boy the learning curve is great
Then I would most likely need a collet set to hold the screw cost only about $250.00 LOL
You got to make the head and you cant clamp on the theards

ok maybe 10 hours LOL[smilie=s:

I could do this really I could. LOL:violin:

When I make a screw or cut threads, I always have a mating part.

ITs so nice to know you can make your own parts[smilie=w:
But it would be cheaper to buy a use gun LOL

[Jal5]

tried the #4-40 American screw today and it does not fit- at least it goes in but won't screw down past the first thread. It must be that metric one...no wonder nobody ever has any of them in stock! Joe

[JIMinPHX]

If you can find someone with both a metric & SAE thread pitch gauge, it might be a good idea to double check what the pitch actually is that way. If you hold your screw up against a 4-40 screw thread-to-thread, the 4-40 should be slightly more coarse if the numbers above are correct. That would be a good first check if no pitch gauge is available.

[Jal5]

Jim you were right, my screw is definitely a fine thread compared to the 4-40.

[JIMinPHX]

If the numbers that you gave me above are correct, then it should be about 5% finer than the 4-40. If it is more than that, you will need to reexamine the numbers above. Was it actually 5 threads in 2.98mm? Could it have been 5.5 or 5.75 threads in 2.98mm?

[williamwaco]

If you can find someone with both a metric & SAE thread pitch gauge, it might be a good idea to double check what the pitch actually is that way.

.

Jim is right -

The screw nearly has to be a standard machine screw. It could be either metric or SAE. Any REAL hardware store should have both and a gauge to measure the exact size for you. When you go, take the screw - not the gun.

[Jal5]

I live in a small town, one hardware store other than the big box store, and the small store didn't have a match for the screw.

Jim I will check it again, but I was using a 10x loupe the first time I looked at the threads. My screw was slightly finer than the 4-40 not by much either.
Joe

[JIMinPHX]

Jim is right -

The screw nearly has to be a standard machine screw. It could be either metric or SAE. Any REAL hardware store should have both and a gauge to measure the exact size for you. When you go, take the screw - not the gun.

I don't know about the Bayard in particular, but many other guns use very nonstandard threads in a number of places. 5-44, 6-48, 8-40 & 12-28 are common threads on guns, but not likely to be found in a hardware store, even a good one. Grip screws for the ubiquitous 1911 are a 0.150"-50 thread, which is strange indeed, except when compared with barrel threads for common S&W revolvers. K-frames use .540-36. L-frames use .562-36 & N-frames use .670-36. I've seen South American variants of a 1911 that used a grip screw thread that I had not seen used anywhere else. They conformed to no standard that I know of.

Gun makers seem to delight in using nonstandard screws.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim I will check it again, but I was using a 10x loupe the first time I looked at the threads. My screw was slightly finer than the 4-40 not by much either.
Joe

If you feel fairly good about the quality of your measurements, then I'll stand on my previous assumptions & figure that you probably either have a Unified type #4-42 thread (which would be a special) or a M series style metric thread that has a .6mm pitch. If it is metric, then the question is - what was the original major diameter of the screw? It may have been 2.8mm, 2.9mm or 3mm. The Machinery's Handbook (#24) lists M2.5 & M3 threads with nothing in between on page 1572 & again on pages 1584 & 1586. It can't be a M2.5, so that leaves either a M3 or a special. The major diameter (OD) on a M3 is listed as 2.87-2.98mm. Your screw is about 0.2mm (or .008") smaller than that. In that tolerance system, it would seem to be about a perfect M2.8-0.6 or a very worn M3-0.6.

My thread cutting lathe does 40tpi or 44 tpi, but not 42. I can't make a screw in that particular thread on my current equipment. I'm not sure how common 42tpi would be on other thread cutting lathes. 0.6mm should be a standard on a metric threading box though.

Are you measuring a screw that still threads in well or one that is somewhat stripped?

[JIMinPHX]

The most accurate way to determine the correct major diameter for the screw that you have is to measure the pitch diameter over wires. More information on that can be found at the bottom of this page - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105185.

You can see a set of wires in use in post #32 on this page - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76079&page=2

That may be a little further than you really want to go in identifying a thread though.

[JIMinPHX]

After looking over some old notes, I see that neither my old Reed, my old Hendy, My old South Bend nor the Musser I used to run had 42tpi on their gear boxes. I'm going to say that a #4-42 is a highly unlikely thread.

That leaves me thinking that you probably have a M2.8 x 0.6. I would need to measure with thread wires & a pitch gauge before I could swear to it though. That thread would be a very odd duck.

M2.8 x 0.6 is a special, but it can be cut on a lathe with a standard metric gearbox. The same goes for M3 x 0.6.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim the page I was referencing is http://mdmetric.com/tech/tic1c.htm

The M2.8 x .53 that they list is the closest thing that I see.

My old standby for strange metric stuff doesn't have anything even close that I can find in their catalog - http://www.metricmcc.com/

If I was in your situation, I think that I'd try the M2.8 x .53 first. If that didn't work, then I'd either have custom screws cut or tap the gun to accept a #4-40 American screw. I really don't like doing that though. Altering guns to nonstandard dimensions is a last resort for me.

Sorry that I couldn't be more help on that one.

[JIMinPHX]

A Polish P-64 uses a M3 x 0.5 grip screw. That thread is finer than a #4-40. It's also a standard M profile thread that you might find at a good hardware store. A screw with that thread might be worth trying. The actual screw from the P-64 is probably too long for your gun though.

[Jal5]

That M3x0.5 thread is something I will look for in neighboring town hardware stores. Too bad the real hardware stores have just about gone out of business! Thanks for that idea.

[DCP]

Here you go

http://www.fastenal.com/web/home.ex

[JIMinPHX]

How did it work out?

[Jal5]

Jim we have had several family illnesses that have taken up my attention, but hopefully i will get to this project after Christmas. Will let you know. Joe

[MBTcustom]

Jim, send me a PM next year if you end up not having the threads. I will check the lathe at work and see. Its a Hardinge precision and it has almost all of the small threads, metric or standard. I would be glad to make said screw and send it out to you free of charge, if that helps.

[primersp]

jim send me an pm with your adress ,i will ship you somes 3m/m screws to try

[Jal5]

Thanks to the kind work of Tim-goodsteel I got the screws made in the correct dimensions 4-46 TPI. This is a great forum and a great bunch of folks! Joe