powder storage

[tommag]

I have a fair amount of powder in the garage. It is not isulated and the humidity gets up to 95% in the winter. The temp varies from 25 to 50 degrees in the winter. Will this be hard on sealed jugs? I plan on walling off part of the garage this summer and insulating it as well as A/C and heat.
I hate to have that quantity in the house, just in case. I know it is not explosive, but in the event of a fire, that would accellerate things substantially (80-90 lbs)
Thanks Tom

[mike in co]

in the house would be more stable..........
i do not know the specific issue with 8lb temp changes if not actually in use.
i perfer a nice stable enviroment....basement with maybe a 55-85 swing winter to summer.

[MtGun44]

As I understand it, cold is fine and may help prolong the powder
life. It is heat that you must avoid. In chemical reactions (like
breaking powder down due to aging) the general rule of thumb
is that the reaction rate doubles for every additional 10F. Cooler
should be good, hot bad. Humidity shouldn't be an issue if the
jugs are fully sealed.

My 2 cents worth.

Bill

[Ricochet]

Bill's exactly right. Keep it cool and don't worry about the humidity.

[tommag]

I had an idea to build a small "root celler" as a magazine, but thought the humidity would be a problem. It sounds like this may be the perfect storage idea. Temp stability, no fire hazard, etc. Now where did I put that round tuit?(and the funds to go with it)

[Ricochet]

A root cellar would be good, I think.

[Lee]

A long long time ago, I thought 10 degrees Centigrade doubled the speed of reaction. But then my chemistry days are long gone.
In any case, basement climate is very good.
Several years ago I got some milsurp containers. About 12"H x 18"W x 36"L if memory serves. Cost more to ship them than it did to buy them. Typical milsurp, with a "GASKETED" lid!!!!:-D :-D
If you ever find 'em for sale, get a few. Best powder/primer storage magazines I have ever found.............Lee
P.S. I think it was Cheaper "N Dirt that had 'em. Havent seen them for a while...........................Lee:)

[Ricochet]

Yeah, I think the doubling rule of thumb is for 10°C. It's a rough rule, to be sure.

[mingol]

As I understand it, powder is relatively stable at temperatures below 98 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit. It has proven so for me, as I have containers of 40+ year-old powder that have not been exposed to temperatures above that level, and have been stored in ammo cans all those years. That powder appears to behave the same as it ever did. Likewise, 40+ year-old handloads still chronograph the same and shoot the same size groups to the same point of impact.
So, I think it can be presumed that powder kept moderately cool, and in airtight containers, will last a long time.
mingol

[MtGun44]

OK - I stand corrected. 10C not 10F. It's a rough rule of thumb anyway,
but perhaps not THAT rough! :-D

The idea was right, just the fuzzy ole memory cells let me down - again.:neutral:

Bill

[georgeld]

Don't know the specifics. But, here's what happened to me.

had about 30 lbs of surplus, 10 of it was in a cardboard oatmeal container with the lid taped shut/on. The rest was in one pound powder can's. Most had been opened and some used from them. had about 1000 primers in the 100pcs flat's. All this was inside a 12"x20"x28" wooden tool box stored under the work bench in an adobe garage around 20 years. Here the temps vary from 30 below to 105F. Humidity runs' 14-40%, seldom varies much from that span.

Nothing seemed to change over that time, not even the primers. Shot them all up and not a dud in the bunch.

From that, I just doubt anything half way reasonable would hurt anything. In your high humidity I'd just make sure the caps were on tight and IF I knew they'd be stored for years. I'd make some attempt to seal the caps. Maybe some DAP around the edge's just to make sure. That's cheap and easy to apply and will come off real easy when the time come's. I'd use the 50yr clear if I had a choice in the matter and knew it'd be stored for a long time. Would be real good to make sure the metal can's wouldn't be sitting where they'd get wet and stay that way. They'll rust thru in a few yrs. That's what I'd be more concerned about than deterioating.

Hope this help,

[No_1]

If the garage is connected to the house it really does not make that much difference as far as the firemen are concerned.

Quick story: A old friend of mine (whose father was a avid shooter/reloader) was charging the battery from his boat in the garage. The battery caught fire and the fire department responded. The ammo/powder was stored in a room off the back porch (a good 35 feet away). The firemen were in the process of putting out the fire (and doing a good job) until loaded rounds and the powder lit off, at that point the firemen backed off till the popping stopped then waited just in case which ment the ENTIRE place burned to the ground. Nobody was hurt, they built a new house but years of collecting/saving stuff dis-appeared in a matter of a few moments. Needless to say his mother was very upset at her loss.

Moral of the story is think ahead and BE CAREFUL no matter what your choice is!

Robert


I hate to have that quantity in the house, just in case. I know it is not explosive, but in the event of a fire, that would accellerate things substantially (80-90 lbs)
Thanks Tom

[Boz330]

I had a work place go up in 1980 with a number of guns and ammo inside, (lightning strike). When I got there the fire dept was there and I gabbed the chief and told him. His answer was that they heard the ammo and it wasn't a problem. The ammo just pops open and doesn't pose that much of a danger. Although he did say that as they opened the door some pen flares that I had went flying across the room and scared the hell out of one of his firefighters who was positioning a fan to evacuate the smoke.
Side note; the insurance that NRA has attached to their membership was very quick to pay up the maximum allowed. Most folks probably don't even know that it exists. I also had a friend who collected on it when his truck was broken into.

Bob

[hunterldh]

I've had powder and primers from buying estates over the years. Some of this stuff was 40 years old and had been stored in basements and garages. It all worked fine. The primers all popped and the powder was sweet smelling and rust free. - Hunter

[schutzen]

I have 1st hand experience with a house fire. Our home burned in 1998. In the attached garage I had stored 15 case of shot shells, 1500-2500 rounds of center fire ammunition, 8-10 pound of someless powder, and 1-2 pounds of black powder. I too expereinced the fire department backing off and waiting for the ammunition to stop cooking off, This was not a real issue for me, I live in a rural area nad the house was a total loss before the FD arrived. The interesting thing was the FD was concerend about the "ammunition" exploding in the center of the house. The Fire Chief and I were standing on the garage apron as he explained this to me. We were no more than 15 feet from the shotshells. All the ammunition, powder and even some primers burned without the FD even knowing it. What was exploding and being mistaken for ammunition cooking off was the canned food in the pantry. The Fire Chief and I moved to the other side of the house. We watched as the cans burst and flew into the air. Moral of the story is store all ammunition, powders, and primers in the factory containers and not in tightly sealed metal cans. Heat will destroy them, but explosions are rare. Hope no one here ever has to go through that. You never totally get over it or totally recover from it. I can heartily endorse fire resistant gun safes or vaults. It was the best $1500 I spent. the only guns I lost were the three I had in the house for immediate use. And the NRA insurance did pay up. I just had to send pictures of the recovered parts.

[Ed Barrett]

I have found that a used refrigerator, that you can buy for less than $100 bucks, is your best bet for powder and primer storage in an unheated unairconditioned building. When I lived in other places and surplus powder was cheap and plentiful, I kept over 100 pounds in a refridgerator just keeping what I was using in the loading area. if the unit is pretty well filled and since the door isn't opened that much the electric use is minimal in the summer and almost zero in the winter.

[testhop]

I have found that a used refrigerator, that you can buy for less than $100 bucks, is your best bet for powder and primer storage in an unheated unairconditioned building. When I lived in other places and surplus powder was cheap and plentiful, I kept over 100 pounds in a refridgerator just keeping what I was using in the loading area. if the unit is pretty well filled and since the door isn't opened that much the electric use is minimal in the summer and almost zero in the winter.

i also use a old refigerator but i dont use electricty i tought if you run the fridg you get moister you dont need to run the fridg you can find one for free
note :a frezzermay be better as it is better insulated



tom

[Ricochet]

Moisture doesn't matter at all. Just temperature.

[mousegun]

Summer temps are getting up over 95° these days, 120° in the garage, even though we're only two miles from the beach. Was going on vacation in August and worried about the powder stash in the garage. Wife is an insurance examiner and having combustibles in the attached garage can make insurance claims complex. Solution? Put the powder in 16 gallon Rubbermaid bins covered with trash bags and buried it in the backyard away from the house. Covered the hole with scrap plywood and shoveled three or four inches of soil over it. Set the bins on wooden strips and maintain two or three inches of clearance between the dirt and the bin bottom and sides. Even with sprinklers it stays dry and cool.

Keep the powder in original containers or HDPE (high density polyethylene) containers firmly stoppered shut. Even black powder stays dry and safe.

[Junior1942]

i also use a old refigerator but i dont use electricty i tought if you run the fridg you get moister you dont need to run the fridg you can find one for free
note :a frezzermay be better as it is better insulated



tomUse a frost free refrigerator and your stuff will stay at a constant low humidity and low temperature. The "moisture" you mentioned comes when the cold object is exposed to high humidity outside air. Solve that problem by not opening the powder can, ammo box, or brick of primers until they come to room temperature. When I pull a jug of powder from the freezer section, I wrap a towel around it to increase the warm up time. Stuff pulled from the cooling section is usable in an hour or two. Stuff pulled from the freezer section is usable the next day.