Italian Lever Gun Question

[Moondawg]

What do you folks think about the newer Italian reproduction lever guns, as far as fit, finish, quality of workmanship and materials etc. In particular I am thinking about a Repo of the Winchester 92, probably 44-40 or 44 mag. Are these Italian jobs good value for the money?

[rbertalotto]

Since REAL Winchester 1892 and 1873 are selling for astronomical prices, and therefore folks are less likely to actually use them, the Italian copies are a great source.

I've been looking for a Winchester 1873 for some time now. Either extremely expensive, or a questionable shooter.

I finally bought a Uberti 1873. Haven't received it yet, but I've seen many of them and I'm very impressed with fit an finish.

Another option is the Rossi rifle. Although some are not made in Italy, they are beautifully made rifles.

[Clinebo]

I have a Rossi '92 in .45 Colt and I love it! Good looking and fun to shoot!
I added a few things to make it more to my liking. I pack it with me on my ATV all the time.

[Ragnarok]

I own a Rossi M92 stainless .44 mag. It's a fantastic truck-gun!

Shoots great..requires a minimum of maintenance.

Will flatten a feral hog with a single blast...pleasant to plink with using 'cowboy' spec reloads.

[August]

My understanding is that '92s are built in Brazil (Rossi, a division of Berretta) and Japan (Miroku, made for "Winchester"). I know of no "Italian" '92 clone.

There is no comparison between the Rossi and Miroku.

You'll get what you pay for.

[Greg B.]

I have a Rossi M92 in .357 which I bought for Cowboy action shooting in 2008. It has always performed reliably. I have had only two complaints: 1) it shot low until the importer provided a free taller front sight; and 2) the fit of the crescent shaped but plate was not the greatest. The trigger and action were a bit stiff but the action smothed out with use. From what I have read the fellow at Steves Gunz is the North Americain guru for M92s of all persuations. He could probably fix you up with exactly what you want.

Also lever guns guns can be sensitive to overall cartrtridge length so make up some test dummies to be sure it likes what you are feeding it.

Liberalism, an extreme form of mental illness.
CBC commentator

[Greg B.]

Correction to last post. Should read it shot high until the front sight was changed. Anyway the taller front sight got it on target.

Greg B.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Ubertis and Pedersolis rifles in all persuasions are quality guns. The Chiappa 92s are better finished (and twice the money), I am not sure where they are made. I am beginning to thing they are well finished Rossis. The Rossis are plain Jane work guns and while they have cheap stained stocks, the metal parts are well made and he'll for stout.

[wellfedirishman]

The Rossi 92s are great utility guns. I have one in 44 and in 357, both of which I use for cowboy shooting.

Once you put a Gunslinger spring kit in the Rossi 92 the action becomes very smooth. The spring kit is about $25 from Brownells and absolutely worth it.

The Uberti 1873s are beautiful guns and very nice to shoot, but cost twice what a Rossi does. Many of the cowboy shooters at my club use the Ubertis.

[HDS]

What do you folks think about the newer Italian reproduction lever guns, as far as fit, finish, quality of workmanship and materials etc. In particular I am thinking about a Repo of the Winchester 92, probably 44-40 or 44 mag. Are these Italian jobs good value for the money?

From what I've heard of the Italian 92's (Chiappa's) on Levergunscommunity, the Rossis are better value for money. Not as pretty and rougher, but they usually work better.

So as I've gathered it:
-Rossi (not italian) but good 92's, rough around the edges though. I am real happy with my '92 44mag after I followed the stevesgunz DVD action job.
-Uberti (italian) and lovely '73s
-Chiappa (Italian) expensive 92's but I've heard a lot of QC issues with them. Considering their other offerings such as the horrid 1911 .22lr and Rhino I'm not willing to pay the money they ask for their replicas.

[cajun shooter]

The Rossi made 92 rifles have been the shooters rifle for many years. It was Imported into the USA by many importers during its 20 or more years of being built by the company. It was called the Puma, Navy Arms, Interarms, and EMF Hartfords were the last ones. When Taurus bought Rossi they refused to sell any guns to EMF who was importing them and calling them Hartfords. They were great guns with good wood. Taurus decided to have the guns made in Italy and sell them for the same as the The Uberti rifles were bringing. The problem is that they hired Armi San Marco which has had a bad reputation for many years even from the other Italian makers who have begged them to improve their building quality. They are nice on the exterior and trash inside. They have had firing pins break after one firing in the Sharps rifles they make. They priced them the same as the Uberti's and had a piece of junk. Any of the old Rossi rifles are great buys and with just a small bit of work they will make nice rifles but not any of the Chippewa rifles.

[robertbank]

The Rossi made 92 rifles have been the shooters rifle for many years. It was Imported into the USA by many importers during its 20 or more years of being built by the company. It was called the Puma, Navy Arms, Interarms, and EMF Hartfords were the last ones. When Taurus bought Rossi they refused to sell any guns to EMF who was importing them and calling them Hartfords. They were great guns with good wood. Taurus decided to have the guns made in Italy and sell them for the same as the The Uberti rifles were bringing. The problem is that they hired Armi San Marco which has had a bad reputation for many years even from the other Italian makers who have begged them to improve their building quality. They are nice on the exterior and trash inside. They have had firing pins break after one firing in the Sharps rifles they make. They priced them the same as the Uberti's and had a piece of junk. Any of the old Rossi rifles are great buys and with just a small bit of work they will make nice rifles but not any of the Chippewa rifles.

X2 on Chiappa made guns. Expensive junk IMHO.

Take Care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

So.......Cimarron = Uberti, Uberti = Uberti, Winchester = Miroku, and Rossi = Rossi? I'm getting a little lost here, and want to avoid the Chiappa junk. I do like the Winchester/Miroku 92s, those seem like the best risk in terms of workmanship/quality--though the prices soar and they are scarce.

[Ragnarok]

The Rossi made 92 rifles have been the shooters rifle for many years. It was Imported into the USA by many importers during its 20 or more years of being built by the company. It was called the Puma, Navy Arms, Interarms, and EMF Hartfords were the last ones. When Taurus bought Rossi they refused to sell any guns to EMF who was importing them and calling them Hartfords. They were great guns with good wood. Taurus decided to have the guns made in Italy and sell them for the same as the The Uberti rifles were bringing. The problem is that they hired Armi San Marco which has had a bad reputation for many years even from the other Italian makers who have begged them to improve their building quality. They are nice on the exterior and trash inside. They have had firing pins break after one firing in the Sharps rifles they make. They priced them the same as the Uberti's and had a piece of junk. Any of the old Rossi rifles are great buys and with just a small bit of work they will make nice rifles but not any of the Chippewa rifles.

Uhhmmm..I just bought a Rossi/Taurus/Braziltech M92 stainless .44 mag carbine. New a few months ago.

It's stamped 'Made in Brazil'

[Buckshot]

..............A friend of mine (Larry) and his wife were, and are into SASS big time. Many years ago while getting outfitted he'd bought his wife a Rossi Stainless M92 38/357. It operated somewhat roughly. I am NOT a M92 gunsmith but I agreed to take a look at his rifle, with him in attendance. When he arrived and handed me the rifle, the FIRST thing I noticed was the barrel mounted front sight was at the 11:30 position, HA! I couldn't do anything about that. I took the action apart and it had a fair number of small pieces of metal floating around inside it.

Examination of the interior showed VERY sharp corners and some torn edges in a few places (which explained where some of the metal bits came from). It appeared to me that during it's manufacture Rossi was 'pushing' it's tools beyond when they'd normally be swapped out as some sharp places being 'torn' also had a few broad places that looked smeared. After stoning edges and sliding surfaces, flushing it out, re-oiling and reassembly it DID operate much smoother. The trigger was pretty bad so he also ended up having his "Cowboy" gunsmith fool with it, and it was obvious HE knew what he was about, and yes they got Rossi to replace the barrel to remedy that from sight :-)

In the intervening years I'd seen several more of the Rossi lever actions at various times at the range. I finally decided I needed one, so bought a Rossi M92 in 45 Colt with a 24" octagon bbl:

http://www.fototime.com/95900A3C1D2F5E8/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7848272124A4E8F/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/478524FEFE92AEF/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/1CED88EB03D042A/standard.jpg

It was the color cased version, and was an appealing rifle. Probably hard to see in the photos but the fit and finish was very good, with zero complaints from me. The barrel while smooth had what I consider a surface ground finish, vs being polished. However all the other parts were polished, and very well done indeed with out any wavy spots, or dished places. Screw heads were nicely blued. The stock is some So. American hardwood I suspect. The barrel's bore is very smooth, and has a 32" twist. My only real complaint is the grooves seem a bit shallower then I'd like to see.

Maybe a year or 2 later I had a chance to buy a used Miroku M92 with a round 24" barrel, and also chambered 45 Colt. It's bore is a perfect .444" x .452" and has a 16" twist.

http://www.fototime.com/745969169444B08/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/96B6094162EA240/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/B655FB7E5A3EBD2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3E694394E9E1E27/standard.jpg

For some reason the shop had recieved it in on consignment along with a couple other rifles from the same person, all of which were missing their buttplates? So in the above photo's if it looks like the buttplate has stock stain on it, it does. The Miroku obviously has Prettier wood, and it's round barrel is polished I cannot say that the fit or finish is any better then that on my Rossi. I'll also say that to date it seems to be a bit more egar to please in the loads it'll shoot accurately. It's action isn't noticeably smoother, nor is it's trigger any better.

Since getting the Jap 92 I also bought a Rossi 38/357 with the 20" round barrel. I've not slugged it but had put a few hundred various cast loads through it from single loaded WC's to 180gr RN slugs all sized to .359" and it's a fine shooter. It didn't really require any work, although I DID take it apart to check it out and internally it was nicely finished. I'm thinking that my buddy Larry's rifle was made during a time when Rossi was rushing to keep up with demand at the time. I've toyed with the idea of re-barreling the Rossi 45 Colt, but I haven't finished wringing it out yet. I'd have no problem buying another, if I needed one.

..............Buckshot

[robertbank]

So.......Cimarron = Uberti, Uberti = Uberti, Winchester = Miroku, and Rossi = Rossi? I'm getting a little lost here, and want to avoid the Chiappa junk. I do like the Winchester/Miroku 92s, those seem like the best risk in terms of workmanship/quality--though the prices soar and they are scarce.

Al my two Rossi rifles (.357Mag/.44Mag) shoot great and are well made. I haven't seen the Japanese version but would assume it would be nicer looking and the 1 - 16 twist would be more conducive to heavier boolits. My Rossi rifles are 1 - 30. For the money the Rossi rifles are very good value and certainly are capable of doing what you would ask a srifle of this caliber to do.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

I used to own a Browning 357/92 clone. It was a lovely rifle, but was a teeny bit pernikity about feeding. I traded it off, which was unfortunate and I should have persisted with it.

I have two Rossis currently, one in 38/357 and one in 44Mag. Both well made rifles with plain wood (offcuts from cheap furniture manafacture one of my mates said jokingly). They both work well, although the 44mag sights suck (well they do with my eyes).

Brownings here are generally twice the price of a new Rossi! I traded mine off for aproximately 60% of the price of a new Rossi! D'Oh!!!!

[dagger dog]

I like my Rossi 92 45 Colt 24" and was worth the coin . It got a sight replacement, and a good detail cleaning and is very smooth with a crisp allthough heavy trigger, and accurate with my cast bullet handloads.

One item I don't care for is the way it treats my brass, it leaves the bottom of the cartridge unsupported, and upon firing the case is pushed into the void at the bottom of the chamber mouth, leave a noticable bulge just forward of the case head.

I think the bottom edge of the chamber mouth is releived for reliability in feeding, which is an excellent quality of this rifle. It will feed LSWC 2 different designs,FNRP, JHP's, and you can mix them in the magazine.

So far this bulging of the brass has no ill effects over working the brass when resizing, I have 100 rnds that have gone 3 trips or better through the Rossi.

[pietro]

My understanding is that '92s are built in Brazil (Rossi, a division of Berretta) and Japan (Miroku, made for "Winchester"). I know of no "Italian" '92 clone.

There is no comparison between the Rossi and Miroku.

You'll get what you pay for.

Update your understanding - The "Puma" Model 92's that used to be made by Rossi & imported by LSI/Legacy, is now the "Puma" model 92 made in Italy by Chiappa (formerly Armi San Marco/junque), who is also making "Puma" Model 1886/86's since LSI owns the "Puma" name, and a Model 71 too, IIRC.

The BEST workmanship, TODAY - bar none - ( and, please do not confuse workmanship with "bling" ) is exemplified by the current products made by Miroku & marketed under the "Winchester" name.

A Winchester/Miroku would be my 1st choice for a "quality" .44-40 Model 92 - although I'm not particularly enamoured with their lawyer-mandated safeties.

.

[rbertalotto]

See post #2.....I finally found the Uberti 1873 I was looking for. Great rifle. Shoots the balls!

http://images51.fotki.com/v628/photos/2/36012/10172640/DSC_3737-vi.jpg

http://images15.fotki.com/v2/photos/2/36012/10172640/DSC_3678-vi.jpg

So now my Italian Rifle Collection looks like this:

Rossi 1892 454 Casull
Rossi 1892 45LC
Uberti 1873 45LC
Pedersoli 1874 Sharps 45-70

All are fantastic rifles. All are more accurate, smoother and cost less than the Marlins and Winchesters I also own. The Italians are doing a great job making shootable rifles for the masses.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Rossi 1892 454 Casull
Rossi 1892 45LC

I'm sorry to say, but these 'Italians' are South Americans! They are a great rifle though, I have two also. They will out last any two of us with a minimum of care.

[bigted]

My understanding is that '92s are built in Brazil (Rossi, a division of Berretta) and Japan (Miroku, made for "Winchester"). I know of no "Italian" '92 clone.

There is no comparison between the Rossi and Miroku.

You'll get what you pay for.

i also have been bit with the '73' bug. the astounding thing i find is the price of these rifles...1000.00 and up for computer prices...i see this as a bit over the top but that is just the cheep coming out i spose...dont think anything about the price of a single-shooter but these uberti '73's seem a little out there...am i wrong???

[Four Fingers of Death]

i also have been bit with the '73' bug. the astounding thing i find is the price of these rifles...1000.00 and up for computer prices...i see this as a bit over the top but that is just the cheep coming out i spose...dont think anything about the price of a single-shooter but these uberti '73's seem a little out there...am i wrong???

They are expensive, but they are a fine rifle and well finished. I have one in 44/40, it is the sporting rifle with 24" Octangular Bbl. It doesn't draw much attention at cowboy matches, but every time I pull it out at a non cowboy range, it draws a crowd.

[BoolitSchuuter]

I think after years of B/A and semi autos I've finally caught the lever bug. I'm kinda wantin' the Rossi Rio Grande in 45-70. Anyone got any input on this one? Seems like it just came out this year. Can't find much on it.

[rbertalotto]

I've finally caught the lever bug



NOOOooooooooo!!!!!!

Run!!! Leveritis is a horrible disease! The last time I owned a lever rifle was 1980. I sold it and never thought I'd be back.

Since January I've bought the following......

Marlin 1894 45LC
Marlin 1894 32H&R
Marlin 1895 45-70
Marlin 39
Marlin 39 (can't never have enough model 39s)
Rossi 1892 454 Casull
Rossi 1892 45LC
Uberti 1873 45LC

And I found and bought back my last lever action, Marlin 336 30/30.....!

So now I have all these lever actions..........Cowboy Action Shooting was a logical next step. Two Ruger New Model Vaqueros, Winchester 97 shotgun, Savage 311 20ga shotgun............and last night I was in the garage building a bloody cart!

So use me as an example..........do not start.

[rbertalotto]

Oh, By The Way...........We'll see you over at Paco Kelly's Lever Gun Forum..............[smilie=s:

[lonnydk]

37219
Bought this Rossi 92 16 inch barrel 357 to play with.

Did a complete action job and replaced the safety with a peep sight and put my K5 brand on it just for fun.

Is this a beautiful rifle? No, not by my standards but as a fun tool , it is my favorite woods walking rifle. I load it with everything from round ball to deer loads. Well worth the money!

[helice]

The Italian 1873s and 1866s are beautiful rifles and I would enjoy owning one someday soon. I have the Rossi in Stainless and 45 Colt and 2 Browning 92s in 357 and 44 Mag. Like 4FOD I found the Brownings to be noticeably smoother. That said I have no intentions of trading the Rossi. I put a Skinner type bolt mount 'peep' sight (from Steve's Gunz) to replace the 2 piece dysfunctional unit it came with. That done, I'm more than satisfied with the Rossi.
I do recommend the 45 Colt caliber too.