fluxing lead

[realfisher]

i was wondering if using wax,sawdust or similiar items for fluxing is better than turning up the heat and getting contaminants to float to the top of dirty lead is the best way to get lead clean? helpful hints please

[mold maker]

It's partly according to what alloy your using. I've never found excess heat to solve any problem. Instead, it usually creates problems of it's own.
Too much heat will cause the melt surface to oxidize as fast as you can flux. It also is somewhat selective in what it oxidizes. The first things to float as oxides are the things you want kept in the alloy.
DRY sawdust cleans the melt and pot/tools. Just don't use treated or compo wood dust. Both have chemicals that can make you very sick

[Sonnypie]

I don't want to "clean" the melt. I want it to stay well mixed, therefore consistent.
I flux with ground walnut shells, lizard litter, from Petco.
I put a good sprinkle layer on the melt and leave it there like a blanket over the lead.
It burns up into char and eventually into ashes. Just leave it. (Bottom pour furnace)
Usually one application will do for me to a pot of lead for a casting session.

:lol: I have a roof vent on my shop. Sometimes it looks like it's a chimney when the flux load is smoking off good. :lol:
But both the wife and I like the smell of the walnut shell smoke. ;)

[Defcon-One]

I use white pine sawdust when it all melts to clean things up then paraffin wax during the pouring session. I do big batches of 80 lbs. + and flux with the wax, as required, during pouring if the dross builds back up.

Basically, the sawdust gets the mix cleaned up good, then I use the wax to stabilize and remix it, if needed.

The sawdust is cleaner and smells better, but leaves an ash pile to be skimmed off the top of the lead. The wax is easier with no ash, but it leaves a black film on my tools and pot. Either works good.

[cbrick]

I don't want to "clean" the melt. ;)

Really? Hhmmm . . . Really?

Ok, I just gotta ask.

Why not?

Rick

[realfisher]

i have picked up some candels but when i use chuncks of them, it ignites a fire. would that be due to sents that are in the candels?

thanks for the input so far

[runfiverun]

you want carbon in the mix for carborization. which helps the alloy be an homogenous mix.
you also want the fire to remove the layer of oxygen from the top of the melt to return the oxides back into the alloy.
oddly the carbon in the mix will help remove impurities also.

[alfloyd]

"it ignites a fire. would that be due to sents that are in the candels?"

No, the wax will ignite into flames all by itself. The sents only make it smell better.

Lafaun

[P.K.]

We got a bunch of candle stubs and old "votive" ones left over from parties, can I use the wax from those?

[jsizemore]

Really? Hhmmm . . . Really?

Ok, I just gotta ask.

Why not?

Rick

He doesn't quite get it yet. Grasshopper spends too much time typing and not enough reading.

[waksupi]

Stir it with a stick, and put an handful of kitty litter on top of the melt. Don't try to over think it.

[P.K.]

Stir it with a stick, and put an handful of kitty litter on top of the melt. Don't try to over think it.

Dunno if it was directed to me....Clay?

[fredj338]

You flux to clean the alloy & to help it stay an alloy. I use saawdust, best thing I have tried, including the various commercial fluxes. Stir it in w/ a wooden paint stick. For casting I leave it on top of the melt after stirring, for smeltin, it gets skimmed off prior to ladling ingots.

[Defcon-One]

Almost everything that you put on molten lead will burn!

The wax, or sawdust for that matter, is supposed to burn. It creates the carbon that you want and need. Also, it kills the smoke or at least reduces it.

Drop it in, stir carefully but like you would chili, down and around and then up and over. Scrape the sides and bottom, too. Mix it well and the only thing left on top once the fire goes out will be a light ash and the bad stuff, (dirt, etc.). Carefully skim that off being careful not to get the good metal.

You'll have a pot full of good clean lead. I do sawdust first then wax as I said earlier. In my opinion the melt is even cleaner that way. Temp should be over 650, but no hotter than 750. (Degrees Fahrenheit)

[P.K.]

O-k well either I am tottaly wrong or I cast pure Pb. So far it's been REAL Boolits. And it's shiny silver on top and fine boolits on pour. They shoot and do they shoot! My hunting round this year.

My melt is fluid and I just skim a little off the top. Handgun Boolits are next. What to flux with?

[cbrick]

This will explain it in plain english.

Chapter 4, Fluxing - From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm)

Rick

[P.K.]

This will explain it in plain english.

Chapter 4, Fluxing - From Ingot To Target (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm)

Rick

Thanks.

[alfloyd]

P.K.
"We got a bunch of candle stubs and old "votive" ones left over from parties, can I use the wax from those?"

Sure, you can use them to flux with. Anything made of wax will work great.

Lafaun

[cbrick]

Sure, you can use them to flux with. Anything made of wax will work great. Lafaun

Except . . .

Wax will reduce tin back into the melt but it will not, cannot remove impurities. If your going to take the time to flux why not do both, reduce the tin AND remove the contaminents?

Would not a cleaner alloy be a good thing?

Rick

[P.K.]

Except . . .

Wax will reduce tin back into the melt but it will not, cannot remove impurities. If your going to take the time to flux why not do both, reduce the tin AND remove the contaminents?

Would not a cleaner alloy be a good thing?

Rick

Sure why not. I asked a paticular question, got the answer. Since I am not using tin, not relavent. As for impurities, sawdust and matches working fine.

[Suo Gan]

Stir it with a stick, and put an handful of kitty litter on top of the melt. Don't try to over think it.

Simple kind of man...bless you! !!!!!DRY!!!!! sawdust or even leaves work too !!!!DRY!!!!

[cbrick]

P.K.

The post was in response to alfloyd's comment that wax works great. It does at reducing but not removing.

Rick

[Sonnypie]

Really? Hhmmm . . . Really?

Ok, I just gotta ask.

Why not?

Rick

You guys really need to find some consistences in your advice. :?

About 5000-6000 boolits ago (when I began casting boolits for my firearms) I was getting yelled because I DID clean the melt....
"You removed all the tin. Just flux it and stir it back in."
So I don't really want to "clean" the melt, and for my money it is much cleaner and easier to get a small scoop of the lizard litter and sprinkle it on the melt. Then stir it around, and get to casting when I can breath and see again. :-|
The lizard litter is finely ground English walnut shell. I don't need it for brass polishing anymore because I use SS tumbling.
It's not some trash from my dust collection system, or junk from the wood pile. And hardwoods burn (disintegrate) much cleaner, leaving very little pitch or soot behind. Which, incidentally, helps keep my furnace clean.

And maybe my melt only requires a little cleaning because I don't put garbage in my furnace? I use Rotometals Lyman #2 for my rifle boolits, and magnum shot with a skoach of tin added for my 45's. Plus flux as noted above.
My WW collecting did make some undesirable dross (slag), which I cleaned off with the usual junk (clips, disintegrated sticky paper, brake dust) leaving nice shiny ingots of WW metal. I haven't used any of it as of yet.

Bottom line is I am having a lot of fun and getting a lot of shooting in when I go. I was just shy of 300 rounds of 30-06 today. I probably could have broke 300, but I decided to do some plinking with one of my 22LR's. So I got side-tracked plinking long distance steel with it, after destroying several bulls eyes at 50 and 100 yards.

I've narrowed down to a few loads I want to work with, and the alloys that I like, that suit the kind of shooting I enjoy. Rather than ping and ricochet all over the map about what somebody else found worked for them.

Maybe Mr. Jsizemore and you, Rick, should reevaluate your snootiness?
Just a suggestion... ;-)

Signed,
Grasshopper [smilie=s:

PS: Forums, as a rule, don't work as well for communication as a PM or email does.
I only happened to run across your post.
Just another suggestion... [smilie=1:

Sigh... The guns are clean and put away, all the brass is deprimed (including several hundred 45's I picked up), and a load of Lake City brass in in the tumbler for the night.
I think I'll gather my little dogs and go sack out.
It's been a very good day! :-D

[Moonman]

Sonnypie,
Sometimes you just have to keep em' honest.:kidding:
Good Shootin' and Have FUN ALWAYS.:drinks:
Some take life way TOO SERIOUSLY, and end up with Heart Attacks
and all kinds of problems, health and otherwise.:dung_hits_fan:

[cbrick]

Snootiness?

News flash Grasshopper . . . You are cleaning your alloy. What do you think that walnut shell is doing?

Rick

[geargnasher]

Geez, guys, there are ways to express your ideas without name-calling and degrading remarks. How about a link to Glen's fluxing article?

Gear

[cbrick]

Gear, see post #16.

Rick

[sparky45]

I always enjoy Sonnypie's comments...

[montana_charlie]

Sure why not. I asked a paticular question, got the answer. Since I am not using tin, not relavent.
The action of changing an oxide of tin (or any metal) back into the original metal is called 'reduction'.
In this case, the term means 'change the character of' rather than 'make smaller or less numerous'.

Any metal will oxidize, and will do that faster when heated ... including lead.



My melt is fluid and I just skim a little off the top. Handgun Boolits are next. What to flux with?
And, what was on top that you scraped off? If you only have pure lead in the pot, the scummy layer you removed was oxidized lead ... which could have been 'reduced' back into the melt instead of being scraped off and discarded.

So, you may not have tin to worry about, but reducing oxides is still a useful tool for you.

CM

[Sonnypie]

Snootiness?

News flash Grasshopper . . . You are cleaning your alloy. What do you think that walnut shell is doing?

Rick

Exactly, snootiness (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snootiness).

Cleaning, to me, is removing the slag (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slag) that floats to the top of any foundry melt. Be it lead, or aluminum, or steel or iron. Wheel weight clips come to mind here, as well as dirt, brake dust, paint, or other undesirables floating out of the alloy.
Fluxing is to aid the lead, tin, and antimony to stay mixed. Not to clean it, but to aid the 3 to remain an alloy. Fryxell (http://www.sixguns.com/crew/simplefluxing.htm) puts it thusly. Definition (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fluxing) puts it this way, specifically see Item 6, metalurgy.
Back when I began my venture into casting boolits, I skimmed off the slag (dross) that floated out of the lead I melted down and put it in an old metal coffee can (remember those?). Several of the guys here told me I had removed most of the tin in the melt. And to put it back and "flux the hell out of it and stir vigorously." :x
Oh my goodness, what have I done? How much real tin is in a bunch of ancient ocean fishing weights? :o
I bet you a dollar to a donut they did NOT use Lyman #2 to make pyrimid sinkers...
But I rapidly advanced away from the potpourri of unknown mixed melt. It did give me some base metal to try out and practice with.
Getting back to basics, I contacted Rotometals and ordered in 35 pounds of Lyman #2 alloy. A trusted boolit casting formula, from a source I felt I could rely on to ship me exactly what was advertised, honest to God metalurgists. And not was I disappointed either. I have since ordered and received an additional 40 pounds from them during a fall sale. (I too like a good deal when it comes along)
So I'm pretty sure what is sliding down the bore of my prized antique firearms.
It melts down clean and pure, as well. So I flux it with clean and trusted hardwood and have a real good idea of exactly what is coming out of that spout into my molds.
Likewise with the magnum shot I alloy for pistol boolits. But I add .31% of tin (Thanks again, Bumpo! :grin:), so I feel better about it.
That's it. Two alloys, two firearms, so I can focus on loads, and development of my own pet loads with different powders and weights of charges.
All in the pursuit of that tiny x in the retina of the bulls eye. (And the satisfaction of the ring of a bullet disintegrating to dust and the ring of a steel well hit.)
It's all fun to me.

Now if you will Please excuse me I really need to change loads of brass in my tumbler, and check on the whereabouts of my Check-maker that is in the clutches of the USPS due today from Pat Martin. I have 318 ea of 311291 Lyman boolits I cast the other night (Thur) with a mold another Friend from here gave me. My first real Lyman boolit mold!
A single, but damn! What a dandy! He swage's and said he didn't want to cast for his 30-06 anymore. So we swapped some stuff around and both feel good about the new friendship. The old Lyman matched right up to the handles for my Lee 6 cavity mold for 230 grain 45 boolits.
I guess I must be living right, or holding my tongue out just right. :confused:
Off to the shop...

[Sonnypie]

Geez, guys, there are ways to express your ideas without name-calling and degrading remarks. How about a link to Glen's fluxing article?

Gear

It's all good, Gear.
Just a bunch of boys rollin around in the grass on the front lawn.

'Scuse me, I really got to get my tail out to that tumbler. :drinks:

[cbrick]

Sonnypie, in post #3 of this thread you made the following statement without any reference to what alloy your using.


I don't want to "clean" the melt.

So out of curiosity I asked the following question in post #5.


Really? Hhmmm . . . Really? Ok, I just gotta ask. Why not? Rick

then in post #23 you came back with this . . .


Maybe Mr. Jsizemore and you, Rick, should reevaluate your snootiness? Just a suggestion... Signed, Grasshopper

Ok, guess I'm the snootie type.

Rick

[onesonek]

You guys really need to find some consistences in your advice. :?

About 5000-6000 boolits ago (when I began casting boolits for my firearms) I was getting yelled because I DID clean the melt....
"You removed all the tin. Just flux it and stir it back in."
So I don't really want to "clean" the melt, and for my money it is much cleaner and easier to get a small scoop of the lizard litter and sprinkle it on the melt. Then stir it around, and get to casting when I can breath and see again. :-|
The lizard litter is finely ground English walnut shell. I don't need it for brass polishing anymore because I use SS tumbling.
It's not some trash from my dust collection system, or junk from the wood pile. And hardwoods burn (disintegrate) much cleaner, leaving very little pitch or soot behind. Which, incidentally, helps keep my furnace clean.

And maybe my melt only requires a little cleaning because I don't put garbage in my furnace? I use Rotometals Lyman #2 for my rifle boolits, and magnum shot with a skoach of tin added for my 45's. Plus flux as noted above.
My WW collecting did make some undesirable dross (slag), which I cleaned off with the usual junk (clips, disintegrated sticky paper, brake dust) leaving nice shiny ingots of WW metal. I haven't used any of it as of yet.

Bottom line is I am having a lot of fun and getting a lot of shooting in when I go. I was just shy of 300 rounds of 30-06 today. I probably could have broke 300, but I decided to do some plinking with one of my 22LR's. So I got side-tracked plinking long distance steel with it, after destroying several bulls eyes at 50 and 100 yards.

I've narrowed down to a few loads I want to work with, and the alloys that I like, that suit the kind of shooting I enjoy. Rather than ping and ricochet all over the map about what somebody else found worked for them.

Maybe Mr. Jsizemore and you, Rick, should reevaluate your snootiness?
Just a suggestion... ;-)

Signed,
Grasshopper [smilie=s:

PS: Forums, as a rule, don't work as well for communication as a PM or email does.
I only happened to run across your post.
Just another suggestion... [smilie=1:

Sigh... The guns are clean and put away, all the brass is deprimed (including several hundred 45's I picked up), and a load of Lake City brass in in the tumbler for the night.
I think I'll gather my little dogs and go sack out.
It's been a very good day! :-D

Well,,,, then your first post was completely off base, or at least completely out of context to the OP's question. As He, was asking about "cleaning flux", not simply keeping the alloy reduced/blended. You made no mention of using a clean alloy from Roto to begin with. Here in lies the room for misinterpretation, and why Rick asked,,,at least that's how I look at what he asked. I seen no snootiness as you call it, rather a question. Had your first post had some relevance to the question, it might have saved you from a question, in which you replied with a snotty attitude.
I'm sure the previous thread(s) you brought up, all were to help you understand or learn, not to denigrate. I seen no contradiction or discrepancies, in what Rick or others have replied , now or in the past. Sometimes one needs not to read so much between the lines.
However, how you interpret things is your prerogative, but you slung mud here first as I see it. Just remember, what goes around, most generally comes around. And that being smart in one's own mind, does not make one wise.

[sparky45]

Well, the way I see this, the post that started everything south(although I like the discussion) was post #5. If I had received that comment from someone I WASN'T in a conversation with, I would have been somewhat provoked to the point of responding with a sardonic quip.

[cbrick]

Well, the way I see this, the post that started everything south(although I like the discussion) was post #5. If I had received that comment from someone I WASN'T in a conversation with, I would have been somewhat provoked to the point of responding with a sardonic quip.

Really? Well you haven't been in this conversation yourself. You must be a very sensitive person. Your feminine side?

Snooty Rick

[waksupi]

Since you can't play well together, I'm closing this thread. If the nasty remarks start up again, some people may be having a bit of a vacation from the board.