Corbin/RCE vs Detsch & Neimi Process

[30yrcaster]

I've made bullets with Corbin & RCE for a really long time and their process hasn't changed. To get the bullets (.22 & 6mm w/J4 jackets) to fall out of the point form die, you must extrude some of the jacket into the ejection punch hole otherwise the bullet sticks on the ejection punch. The bullets look goofy with the little nipple at the end. I've used a point closing die to push it closed and they look nicer but it's an extra step requiring more time.

Is the process the same for making jacketed bullets with Detsch & Niemi dies? I don't see the nipple end on the bullets I've seen made with their dies and the open tip/point is smaller as well.

Thanks

[ccook23]

I've made bullets with Corbin & RCE for a really long time and their process hasn't changed. To get the bullets (.22 & 6mm w/J4 jackets) to fall out of the point form die, you must extrude some of the jacket into the ejection punch hole otherwise the bullet sticks on the ejection punch. The bullets look goofy with the little nipple at the end. I've used a point closing die to push it closed and they look nicer but it's an extra step requiring more time.

Is the process the same for making jacketed bullets with Detsch & Niemi dies? I don't see the nipple end on the bullets I've seen made with their dies and the open tip/point is smaller as well.

Thanks

The major difference is steel versus carbide dies and tooling, I know Corbin's use steel and I believe (although not 100% sure) the others you mentioned use carbide. Neither holds a tolerance better than the other when talking about bullet dies. Longevity obiously goes to carbide. Meplat trimmers are used (by those who use Crobin or others) to clean up the "tip" of the bullet, along with tip forming dies. The goofy little nipple at the end (other wise called the chimney stack) is in my opinion having the point forming die set just a bit to deep. This can/will happen with any die set if the bullet is being pushed a little to far in the point forming die.

Clint

[Mountain Prepper]

For good or bad post ogive forming dies to form a lead tip and sometimes close in the jacket are standard for everyone.

If the ejector is too small it will have two problems:

Easy damage.

Will continuously punch deep into the lead getting stuck or can even punch completely past the core and out the back of the jacket.

Of course Ogive shape and lubrication will play a part but there is a limit as to how small an ejector can be and this becomes part of the ejector hole size issue.

[MIBULLETS]

I don't have this problem with my Corbin or RCE made dies.

[30yrcaster]

...The goofy little nipple at the end (other wise called the chimney stack) is in my opinion having the point forming die set just a bit to deep. This can/will happen with any die set if the bullet is being pushed a little to far in the point forming die.
Clint
I've had 7 sets of dies (all 224 & 6mm) from Corbin & RCE and all of them need to be pushed a bit into the hole to get them to fall off the ejection pin. I asked Dave Corbin about it long time ago and he seemed surprised but then the sample he sent with the dies had a nipple/chimney much longer than the one I get. Also asked RCE about it and he too seemed surprised but all his samples were sporting the nipple/chimney. He did tell me it was J4's fault in that they are thinner and have a bevel at the mouth causing not much material to be there for the pin to push against. His solution as well as Dave's was to sell me a point closing die.

I've adjusted the dies where I'm on the edge of the bullets sticking on the pin or falling off of it. There's not much of the nipple/chimney but it's there and I've never been able to adjust it out. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but if not that's why I was wondering how Niemi & Detsch do their point forming and if those bullets being sold from their dies had a point closing operation done on them.

Thanks

[Houndog]

It just so happens I have bullet dies from all the manufacturers listed. The problem you are having is because the ejector rod is too small for the hole in the die. I replaced the ejector rods in my RCE and Corbin dies with larger ejectors made from drill bit blanks (available from most any machine tool supplier) and the problem is gone. I also have a set of steel dies made by Ross Sherman, one of the cadilac makers of steel dies as far as I'm concerned, that have an abnormally large ejector pin and make a large open tip that do not make the chimneys you are talking about.

There are three more extremely good brands of steel dies out there that need mentioning. Larry Blackmon , Baeler and Astiles, anf Ferris Pendell. The first one is still in business as far as I know and the other two mentioned are deceased. All three of these die makers dies are first class, and if you happen across a set made by Ferris Pendell ( one of the fathers of the PPC) still in good shape GRAB THEM!!!!! My set is extremely uniform and Ferris' designs ARE some of the best that can be had.

Making bullets on carbide dies is a whole nuther ballgame. you don't use nearly as much lube, sticking a jacket is almost unherd of, they generally are made to MUCH tighter tolerances than their steel counterparts ( their cost reflects that) and they will last a couple of lifetimes if you even half way take care of them. I have carbide dies made by Dietch, Neimi and Sherman. ALL are first rate dies and none of them make chimney nosed bullets.

Using carbide dies IS a pleasure, but are quite unnecessary if you are making bullets for your own use. Steel dies WILL make Benchrest quality bullets for at a minimum of 50K bullets and a useful die lifespan of 150-200K bullets. MOST shooters will not shoot that many bullets in their lifetime. The lifespan of properly cared for carbide dies will most likely be several million bullets. I've never seen a set of worn out carbide dies and two of my mentors, Jef Fowler and Ed Watson literally made millions of them.

[30yrcaster]

It just so happens I have bullet dies from all the manufacturers listed. The problem you are having is because the ejector rod is too small for the hole in the die. I replaced the ejector rods in my RCE and Corbin dies with larger ejectors made from drill bit blanks (available from most any machine tool supplier) and the problem is gone. I also have a set of steel dies made by Ross Sherman, one of the cadilac makers of steel dies as far as I'm concerned, that have an abnormally large ejector pin and make a large open tip that do not make the chimneys you are talking about.

There are three more extremely good brands of steel dies out there that need mentioning. Larry Blackmon , Baeler and Astiles, anf Ferris Pendell. The first one is still in business as far as I know and the other two mentioned are deceased. All three of these die makers dies are first class, and if you happen across a set made by Ferris Pendell ( one of the fathers of the PPC) still in good shape GRAB THEM!!!!! My set is extremely uniform and Ferris' designs ARE some of the best that can be had.

Making bullets on carbide dies is a whole nuther ballgame. you don't use nearly as much lube, sticking a jacket is almost unherd of, they generally are made to MUCH tighter tolerances than their steel counterparts ( their cost reflects that) and they will last a couple of lifetimes if you even half way take care of them. I have carbide dies made by Dietch, Neimi and Sherman. ALL are first rate dies and none of them make chimney nosed bullets.

Using carbide dies IS a pleasure, but are quite unnecessary if you are making bullets for your own use. Steel dies WILL make Benchrest quality bullets for at a minimum of 50K bullets and a useful die lifespan of 150-200K bullets. MOST shooters will not shoot that many bullets in their lifetime. The lifespan of properly cared for carbide dies will most likely be several million bullets. I've never seen a set of worn out carbide dies and two of my mentors, Jef Fowler and Ed Watson literally made millions of them.

Houndog,

I think you answered my question.

The drill rod idea is something for me to look into!! Great Idea. If my pin is supposed to be .062, what size did you use?

Was looking to find out if the Detsch or Niemi carbide dies did the chimney. Looks like you cleared that up.

I found a youtube slide show showing some final bullet pics and I see I'm not alone with the chimney I described previously. At 0.08, 1.12 & 1.16 min you can see what I'm talking about. It's not much but it's there. Here's the link so anyone can see what I've described. Thanks!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM1kPuSRmyY

[BT Sniper]

I think a questions that needs to be adressed is do these dies operate on a closed or open type of die design.

Closed die operation, like my modified CH for example, has the ejection pin (in this case also the HP or FN nose punch set to stop at a specific spot not allowing the jacket to form the nipple everyone talks of. This also allows us to apply pressure in teh final formation of the bullet without the nipple problem.

Open die.... the bullet is formed in the die and afterwords the ejection pin is used to eject the bullet. As I usnderstand it the ejection pin my be no where near the top of the bullet when it is fully formed allowing the jacket or excess lead to bleed into the ejection portion of the die above the bullet cavity.

I may need some correction on the above claims or terms but think I got it pretty much correct. How does the high end corbin and the rest of them operate? Closed or open?

I have been designing my dies to operate on teh Closed die principal. I can make my 308s without the stove pipe nipples and still be using teh very thin 5.7 brass for a jacket.

I will continue to experiment a bit but I enjoy seeing some "advanced" thinking and operations of swage dies mentioned here in this thread.

Swage On!

BT

[Utah Shooter]

I have not had the issue either. Yeah I can make projectile with the "chimney" on them but that is just because they have been pushed too far into the die.

I use a bit of lube of them and they pop out perfectly every time.

[30yrcaster]

I think a questions that needs to be adressed is do these dies operate on a closed or open type of die design.

Closed die operation, like my modified CH for example, has the ejection pin (in this case also the HP or FN nose punch set to stop at a specific spot not allowing the jacket to form the nipple everyone talks of. This also allows us to apply pressure in teh final formation of the bullet without the nipple problem.

Open die.... the bullet is formed in the die and afterwords the ejection pin is used to eject the bullet. As I usnderstand it the ejection pin my be no where near the top of the bullet when it is fully formed allowing the jacket or excess lead to bleed into the ejection portion of the die above the bullet cavity.

I may need some correction on the above claims or terms but think I got it pretty much correct. How does the high end corbin and the rest of them operate? Closed or open?

BT
The Corbin/RCE dies/press works on what you call the "open" process. When in the down stroke, the core/jacket is pushed into the die but the internal ejection pin/punch is nowhere near the bullet.

[Smokin7mm]

I think a questions that needs to be adressed is do these dies operate on a closed or open type of die design.

Closed die operation, like my modified CH for example, has the ejection pin (in this case also the HP or FN nose punch set to stop at a specific spot not allowing the jacket to form the nipple everyone talks of. This also allows us to apply pressure in teh final formation of the bullet without the nipple problem.

Open die.... the bullet is formed in the die and afterwords the ejection pin is used to eject the bullet. As I usnderstand it the ejection pin my be no where near the top of the bullet when it is fully formed allowing the jacket or excess lead to bleed into the ejection portion of the die above the bullet cavity.

I may need some correction on the above claims or terms but think I got it pretty much correct. How does the high end corbin and the rest of them operate? Closed or open?

I have been designing my dies to operate on teh Closed die principal. I can make my 308s without the stove pipe nipples and still be using teh very thin 5.7 brass for a jacket.

I will continue to experiment a bit but I enjoy seeing some "advanced" thinking and operations of swage dies mentioned here in this thread.

Swage On!

BT


I dont believe it is excess jacket when they talk about the chimney effect. It is the jacket that is extending into the ejection pin hole in the tip of the die. If the ejection pin is too small for the bullet diameter and the tip is not closed up enough the pin will be pushing on the lead inside the bullet to eject the bullet. Sometime depending on the die finish/lube applied (basicly resistance) the pin will push through the lead and hang up inside the bullet or even push all the way through the base (usually on very thin jackets like those made from RF cases). The ideal setting is to have the jacket form right up to the ejection pin hole where the ejection pin catches the jacket to push it out but not so much as to extrude into the ejection pin hole. This requires extremely uniform jacket length. The correct amount of lube is also critical as too little and the bullet hangs up a little and too much and you get lube dents in the ogive.
Bret

[Houndog]

To answer 30yrcaster's question, I used a numbered drill set as pin guages to find the largest diameter pin that would go through the hole to select the drill blanks for the ejector pins. The closer the fit between the ejector pin bore and the actual pin the easier it is to make a proper bullet nose and eject the bullet from the case.

To BT Sniper: The dies are of the open die configuration and are used for hollow point or open tipped bullets as Corbin calls them. Your closed tip CH die is used to form lead tip bullets or some other special nose configuration. They have the same function, but different ways to get there. In my opinion, open tipped bullets are FAR easier to make.

To Smokin7mm, You are correct about the jacket being pushed too far into the die forming the chimneys. The reason too small of an ejector pin makes this problem worse is you have to extrude the point into the ejector pin bore so the undersized ejector rod will catch on the formed nose to eject it from the die. If the ejector pin doesn't catch on the bullet nose it will either use the lead core to eject the bullet, or more than likely penetrate the lead core and bullet base sticking the ruined bullet in the die.The ideal setup is to close the bullet point up untill the chimney starts to form and then back the die off untill the chimney just disappears. If the ejector rod properly fits the die the difference in the inside and outside diameter of the bullet nose will give the ejector rod enough surface to push the bullet out of the die.

[30yrcaster]

It just so happens I have bullet dies from all the manufacturers listed. The problem you are having is because the ejector rod is too small for the hole in the die. I replaced the ejector rods in my RCE and Corbin dies with larger ejectors made from drill bit blanks (available from most any machine tool supplier) and the problem is gone.

To answer 30yrcaster's question, I used a numbered drill set as pin guages to find the largest diameter pin that would go through the hole to select the drill blanks for the ejector pins. The closer the fit between the ejector pin bore and the actual pin the easier it is to make a proper bullet nose and eject the bullet from the case.


The ejection rod I have is .0622 (starrett mic). Yes it seems a bit loose as when it's completely inside the die sticking out both ends, I can rock it back & forth a bit. I tried a #52 drill bit that's exactly .0630. It only goes in 1/8" and gets stuck. A 1/16"/.0625 seems about as loose as the .062. I'd certainly agree a better fitting pin would do a better job. I'd guess Detsch & Niemi make their pin a better fit if their process is similar to RCE/Corbin.

[BT Sniper]

I've certainly kept my ejection pin as tight as possible to the size of the hole it fits in. Not quite sure why you would want a smaller one.

I have been able to use my 308 dies in a "Closed" operation set up. I attempt to get the perfect weight of bullet that will fill %100 of the jacket so the lead will be exactly at the tip of the jacket. I have been able to account for slight varations in the weights of both jacket and core using this closed die concept and must be slightly compressing the top of the jacket slightly. Point being trying to avoid that chimney of a tip with a tight fit ejection pin that has a built in stop to not allow the jacket into the ejection port.

Great data and info for all that will eventually be swaging rifle caliber bullets. Keep it up.

Swage On!

BT

[BT Sniper]

I wonder if a bullet formed under a bit more pressure in a closed die sort of set up with no open tip or HP, or void would be any more accurate?

[30yrcaster]

I wonder if a bullet formed under a bit more pressure in a closed die sort of set up with no open tip or HP, or void would be any more accurate?
Sounds like an excellent question for it's own thread.

[BT Sniper]

Yeah probably right. I may try it out some day.

[Houndog]

I wonder if a bullet formed under a bit more pressure in a closed die sort of set up with no open tip or HP, or void would be any more accurate?

Intresting concept! I know when I make Benchrest bullets I use a Mic to make sure the shank of the bullet and the base are the same size. If you don't use enough seating pressure the shank comes out larger than the base by a few tenths and accuracy suffers. That one little detail makes all the difference between an ok bullet and Benchrest winning ones.I also make core seating pins in .0002 increments to make sure I have no core material bleeding by the punch. I don't have a lead tip forming die set of any flavor at the present time to try your theory but i'd REALLY like to know the outcome.

The reason Benchrest shooters use open tipped bullets is you can keep the bullet weight slmost all in the shank. That makes the bullet "go to sleep" faster and easier so we can use a slower twist barrel that suposedly reduces bullet yaw..

[Houndog]

I've certainly kept my ejection pin as tight as possible to the size of the hole it fits in. Not quite sure why you would want a smaller one.

I have been able to use my 308 dies in a "Closed" operation set up. I attempt to get the perfect weight of bullet that will fill %100 of the jacket so the lead will be exactly at the tip of the jacket. I have been able to account for slight varations in the weights of both jacket and core using this closed die concept and must be slightly compressing the top of the jacket slightly. Point being trying to avoid that chimney of a tip with a tight fit ejection pin that has a built in stop to not allow the jacket into the ejection port.

Great data and info for all that will eventually be swaging rifle caliber bullets. Keep it up.

Swage On!

BT

The answer to your first question is easy. Mass production tolerances so any pin will fit any die. If you are doing one off dies, you can and usually do take more time to fit critical parts.

[BT Sniper]

Mass production..... Yep should have thought of that I guess


As far as open or closed die ops and wether or not there is an accuracy difference?????? I'll have to improve my skills and components before I can pinpoint an accuracy difference related to only one or the other.

It's all such a fine line between using enough pressure and the risk of sticking a bullet in the die. Probably not the case with the expensive dies but........ I'll continue and see what I come up with too.

Here is what I was able to achieve right out of the die with a .257 set I made. Not a benchrest bullet as the meplat was .125 but if I could get a uniform tip like that at say .062 that might be pretty cool.

As you can see it was a closed die type set up and you can pretty much garentee there is no voids in that bullet. It was a copper tubing jacket.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050448-1.jpg

[30yrcaster]

Thanks for all the posts!!

I haven't pulled one of Corbin/RCE's ejection pins but Richard told me he puts them in with heat activated Loctite. Do they come out easy or do I need to clamp it in something to pull it out after I heat it up and possibly damage it?

Since the .0625/1/16" drill rod seems to fit very similar to the .0622 piano wire they put in originally, can I polish a .0630 drill rod to fit better since that's too tight to fit inside without getting stuck? Will polishing it take away it's temper if it slightly reduces it's size a few .0001's?

[Houndog]

Thanks for all the posts!!

I haven't pulled one of Corbin/RCE's ejection pins but Richard told me he puts them in with heat activated Loctite. Do they come out easy or do I need to clamp it in something to pull it out after I heat it up and possibly damage it?

Since the .0625/1/16" drill rod seems to fit very similar to the .0622 piano wire they put in originally, can I polish a .0630 drill rod to fit better since that's too tight to fit inside without getting stuck? Will polishing it take away it's temper if it slightly reduces it's size a few .0001's?

I can't answer as to pulling the current ejector out of it's base, but heat USUALLY turns Loctite loose. I have the advantage of owning my own machine shop and usually make a new part instead of working with the old ones. Polishing the untempered drill blank to size will hurt nothing, but if .001 is all the clearance you've got, AND DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE, that's not loose enough to cause the troubles you're having. Both sets of my dies required .007 and .008 respectively to fix the problem. I suggest you put things back together and readjust the die as described below.

Back the die off a full turn and point up a bullet. the ejector punch should not be able to catch the bullet nose. If it does, back the die off untill the ejector pin does not catch the bullet nose. Turn the die down about 1/16 of a turn at a time untill the ejector pin just starts to be able to eject the bullet. Turn the die down another 1/16 turn. At this point you should be able to eject the bullet from the die and go ahead in do so. You should not have a chimney at this point. go ahead and point up another bullet at this setting and see what it looks like. If you don't have a chimney on the new bullet advance the die in 1/16 steps untill you do and start backing the die out untill it's gone, pointing up a new bullet each time.

We did not discuss what brand of bullet jackets you are using or if you are using spent cases for jackets. Either way check a few for length and in the case of spent cases, trim them all to length before using them. If your jackets or cases are uniform in length you shouldn't have to readjust the die as long as you use the same length jackets.

We also did not discuss cleaning jackets and cores, what type of lubricant to use on the jackets or how to apply it. These three processes vary greatly among bullet makers. Here's how I do it, and it IS NOT the only way to get er done. I wash my jackets to be used and the squirted cores in Acetone or MEK when I can find it. Let them air dry and in the case of the cores let them sit a day or two. The cores should get a fine white powder coating on them after a few days, and this is a GOOD thing. It helps bind the core and the jacket. For swaging lube, I use 1/2 ANHYDROUS lanolin ( VERY IMPORTANT) and 1/2 vaseline. I put both ingredients in a glass container and microwave them just enough to liquify them. I then pour the mixture into large vetinary syringes from the farm supply store and let it solidify. Storing it in this manner makes dispensing very easy. If you are lubing the jackets with your fingers as Corbin suggests STOP!!!!! Get a stamp pad from an office supply store, work a SMALL amount of lube into the pad and roll your jackets across it. When you've got it right there will be an almost inperceptable coating of lube on the jackets. This IS one place more is not better!

I hope this is of some help.

[Houndog]

Mass production..... Yep should have thought of that I guess


As far as open or closed die ops and wether or not there is an accuracy difference?????? I'll have to improve my skills and components before I can pinpoint an accuracy difference related to only one or the other.

It's all such a fine line between using enough pressure and the risk of sticking a bullet in the die. Probably not the case with the expensive dies but........ I'll continue and see what I come up with too.

Here is what I was able to achieve right out of the die with a .257 set I made. Not a benchrest bullet as the meplat was .125 but if I could get a uniform tip like that at say .062 that might be pretty cool.

As you can see it was a closed die type set up and you can pretty much garentee there is no voids in that bullet. It was a copper tubing jacket.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050448-1.jpg

That's a fine looking bullet and it should work well! My hat's off to you as to your die making skills and it looks like you've got it all going in the right direction.

Whether you have a large or small open tip at short range benchrest means very little! Consistancy is what REALLY matters! I won my first yardage aggregate with bullets made on the Sherman dies I mentioned in an earlier post and the open tip on the bullets made in those dies are huge!

As to you sticking a bullet in "expensive" dies, it's not as bad as steel dies, but it still happens and it's just as tedious to remove the stuck bullet without damaging the die.

I'm extremely intrested in your theory of using more pressure to form the nose of your bullet! Please keep us posted as to your progress.

Houndog

[30yrcaster]

We did not discuss what brand of bullet jackets you are using or if you are using spent cases for jackets. Either way check a few for length and in the case of spent cases, trim them all to length before using them. If your jackets or cases are uniform in length you shouldn't have to readjust the die as long as you use the same length jackets.

Again, thanks for the ideas. From what you wrote I'm doing everything right. I adjust the punch holder a bit differently but has the same result. I put hash marks on the punch holder with an industrial marker, each about a 1/16" apart. I keep adjusting until bulllets either stick on the internal punch or fall off of it. Like I mentioned before, I'm on the edge of one of the hash marks one way the bullet is stuck on the punch (not much) where I need to tap it and it falls off and one hash mark the other way and I get the chimney but it falls out. The chimney isn't much but it's there.

We're talking .224 & 6mm bullets with Berger J4 jackets and .062 ejection punchs in most of my dies. Also, with 6mm bullets it's std for the .825 jackets to do 68gr bullets where the lead doesn't go to the tip, same with .224 .705 jackets do 52 gr bullets with the lead not going to the tip.

RCE/Corbin blamed the Berger J4 jackets for the chimney problem. They said their jackets are thin and the bevel at the mouth don't leave much material for the punch to push on. I thought Berger J4 jackets were the standard most bench rest bullet people use. Their solution was to order a lead tip/point closing die. Yes that works but it's $200 and another step in the operation. Also, all of the samples they've sent with all the dies going back 20 years have the chimney on them. They're the experts with this stuff so I'd think if they could make bullets without the chimney, wouldn't they send samples of the best the die could do?

Do you have Niemi or Detsch dies in .224 or 6mm? How snug is the ejection pin in the hole? Is it within .001 or tighter? If your dies are larger than these, maybe we're talking apples and oranges.

[Houndog]

Again, thanks for the ideas. From what you wrote I'm doing everything right. I adjust the punch holder a bit differently but has the same result. I put hash marks on the punch holder with an industrial marker, each about a 1/16" apart. I keep adjusting until bulllets either stick on the internal punch or fall off of it. Like I mentioned before, I'm on the edge of one of the hash marks one way the bullet is stuck on the punch (not much) where I need to tap it and it falls off and one hash mark the other way and I get the chimney but it falls out. The chimney isn't much but it's there.

We're talking .224 & 6mm bullets with Berger J4 jackets and .062 ejection punchs in most of my dies. Also, with 6mm bullets it's std for the .825 jackets to do 68gr bullets where the lead doesn't go to the tip, same with .224 .705 jackets do 52 gr bullets with the lead not going to the tip.

RCE/Corbin blamed the Berger J4 jackets for the chimney problem. They said their jackets are thin and the bevel at the mouth don't leave much material for the punch to push on. I thought Berger J4 jackets were the standard most bench rest bullet people use. Their solution was to order a lead tip/point closing die. Yes that works but it's $200 and another step in the operation. Also, all of the samples they've sent with all the dies going back 20 years have the chimney on them. They're the experts with this stuff so I'd think if they could make bullets without the chimney, wouldn't they send samples of the best the die could do?

Do you have Niemi or Detsch dies in .224 or 6mm? How snug is the ejection pin in the hole? Is it within .001 or tighter? If your dies are larger than these, maybe we're talking apples and oranges.

Everything you have posted about J4 jacket sizes and them being the "standard" for Benchrest bullets is correct. As to RCE/Corbin blaming J4 jacket construction for your problems, I don't buy that as that's primarily what I use and just because RCE/Corbin makes bullet dies doesn't mean they are experts

My Dietch bullet dies are 6mm, 6s ogive, make a .2433 bullet and have the standard .062 ejection setup. This is my go to die set for short range Benchrest. The finished bullets are almost the same profile as Sierra Matchkings. Bullets are extremely easy to make on these dies and shoot extremely well in almost any chamber configuration.

I have 3 sets of Neimi dies. Two are 6mm and one is 22. One set of 6mm makes a 7 3/4 ogive, 2432 bullet and has the conventional .062 ejector setup The other set makes a 10 ogive, .2434 bullet and has a .055 ejector setup. I use the later set to make bullets for 600 yard competition. They are a ROYAL PITA to make and get to shoot, but when you get it right are extremely accurate. The last set is 22 caliber. They make a 6 3/4 ogive .2243 bullet with a standard ejector pin setup.

The ejector pin and bore fit on all of these dies is extremely tight, in the .001 range. I have never had to replace an ejector pin on any of these die sets and the Dietch dies are at least 30 years old.

If you are making 6mm bullets and want to try another brand of jacket, shoot me a PM with your mailing address. I have some 6mm .810 Sierra jackets and will send you a few.

[30yrcaster]

The ejector pin and bore fit on all of these dies is extremely tight, in the .001 range. I have never had to replace an ejector pin on any of these die sets and the Dietch dies are at least 30 years old.

If you are making 6mm bullets and want to try another brand of jacket, shoot me a PM with your mailing address. I have some 6mm .810 Sierra jackets and will send you a few.
We're talking apples to apples with the same calibers. Good.
When you say extremely tight fit on the ejection punch, can it rock back & forth or wiggle some when in the full length of the die? The 1/16"/.0625 drill bit does but the .0630 #52 drill bit won't go in all the way so it looks like there's only .0005 difference. It does definetely feel loose even though the measurement with the mic doesn't show that much. Maybe I'll put a dial indicator on the punch while in the die sticking out a bit and see what the number is.

I appreciate the offer for some jackets. I'll stick with the J4's. I've got several buckets I bought direct from Berger @$120 a bucket.

[Houndog]

There's no detectable movement in any of the four carbide die sets, but my steel dies do have some and still make good bullets. I took the Dietch point up die apart as it is the oldest and most used. and measured the bore with pin guages. A .062 pin would go in and a .063 did not. The pin measures .062.

I don't know what else that could be causing your problems unless you have an out of round pin bore (not likely) or a chamfer around the mouth of the bore.

[30yrcaster]

There's no detectable movement in any of the four carbide die sets, but my steel dies do have some and still make good bullets. I took the Dietch point up die apart as it is the oldest and most used. and measured the bore with pin guages. A .062 pin would go in and a .063 did not. The pin measures .062.

I don't know what else that could be causing your problems unless you have an out of round pin bore (not likely) or a chamfer around the mouth of the bore.
Thanks for checking that for me. That tells me alot. I double checked the current music wire pin that's in there as well as the #52/.063 drill bit I have. The music wire pin is .0620-.0622. As mentioned before I can get the .063 drillbit in about 1/8". That drillbit is .0630 for 1/8" at the shank but moving up from that is goes .06315 and is .0633 the rest of the way which explains why it does go in a bit and stops. So I'd think if the pin was closer to .0630 it would have a better fit. I found a source where I can get a Precision Drill Rod in .0630. I'll get a piece and fit it so it fits better than what I have. I'll post the results in a few weeks if anyone is interested.

One thing we know, I'm not alone with this as the pictures show from someone else on Youtube I posted the link to as well as the samples Corbin/RCE provided.

One last question if you don't mind. Do you use a fast stroke when point forming? I've found a faster stroke produces a longer bullet.

Thanks!!

[Houndog]

I don't do anything fast when it comes to making bullets. That's part of the tecnique you have to learn that matches YOUR dies and setup. Doing the same thing the exact same way AFTER you learn what works for you is what counts and what works for me may not be what works for you.!

[30yrcaster]

I don't do anything fast when it comes to making bullets.
Interesting!!!

I had a set of dies that was supposed to create a certain weight bullet. When setting it up, I got lead to the tip which didn't match the sample they sent. Found with a fast stroke the lead didn't go to the tip. That's when I learned how critical the stroke speed was. Unfortunately I wasted alot of jackets learning that. After making 30,000 bullets, I have a pretty consistant stroke but I don't enjoy doing it any more. It's boring monotonous work. I do still like to see finished bullets fall off the punch though.

Long time ago I talked with one of the custom bullet makers that places at the Super Shoot and sells to the public. I asked him how fast he operates the press. He told me he operates it as fast as he can pull the handle. He also told me he made 1000 bullets every day, 7 days a week. I could feel for him as I couldn't stand to make a few hundred every day a few days a week. There's also no money to be made doing them by hand. Guys sell 500 6mm br bullets for $120 and materials cost over $75. That's $45 profit for 5-6 hours of work or more not to mention chemicals for cleaning & time spent packaging, shipping etc and after buying the equipment.

Thanks again. Great discussion.

[30yrcaster]

Here's a picture of my latest 6mm 68gr bullets. There's not much of a chimney but there's some. Don't make lots of bullets any more but when I do I get the urge to see if I can figure out how to get rid of it. The thicker ejection pin is a good one to try.

Thanks

36860

[BLASTER62]

Here's a picture of my latest 6mm 68gr bullets. There's not much of a chimney but there's some. Don't make lots of bullets any more but when I do I get the urge to see if I can figure out how to get rid of it. The thicker ejection pin is a good one to try.

Thanks

36860

When you push the bullet to far into the die you get a stove pipe. If you use a core that is the weight of your bullet you can set your top punch just before you get too far. Also if you use a pinch die to cut your jackets you get a bevel on the end and its thin so when you eject it gets ragged.

[Houndog]

Here's a picture of my latest 6mm 68gr bullets. There's not much of a chimney but there's some. Don't make lots of bullets any more but when I do I get the urge to see if I can figure out how to get rid of it. The thicker ejection pin is a good one to try.

Thanks

36860

Try backing the die off about 1/16 of a turn and using a slower stroke. You are too deep in the die. If you don't loose the chimney by doing that and it still be easy to eject the bullet, it's time to REALLY get after the ejector pin.

Might work and again might not, but i'm betting it will. It don't cost much other than a little time to try.

[R1200mike]

I have a set of dies from George Ulrich in .224 I also have a set from Detsch and corbin. The corbin are steel and they make a larger meplat than the Carbide. I will be getting several die sets from George, His dies are just perfect. A pic of my .224 bullets. First is an 82.5gr. then a Berger 75gr. vld and then my 77 gr. VLD.http://i44.tinypic.com/rbz192.jpg

[Reload3006]

Those Carbide dies are great ... I paid 560 a set for my RCE dies what do those cost?

[BT Sniper]

BEAUTIFUL Bullets!

Swage On!

BT