Tokarev TT-33

[Jamesconn]

I am thinking about getting this gun as my next purchase after I buy my CCW.
How do y'all like it and Im only going to buy it of I can shoot about 1000 rounds a month. I'm not questioning it's structural integrity since it has proven itself on the battlefield.
Can I shoot this gun as often as I want and it being cost effective I've found RCBS die set to make 7.62x25 brass from .223/5.56 but is the die worth it at about $250 I also want a Luger and Walter but I can imagine how expensive they must be as all German guns are expensive.

I really want to know what you like and dislike about this gun and what's the cheapest you have found good brass cased ammo including shipping.

[Freightman]

I use LEE trim die $10 and a HF mini cut off saw $29 to trim and then use the $22+ Lee dies for the 7.62x25. I do not have any trouble, RCBS is good but the LEE do a good job for me at 10% the cost and I am cheap. O yes do camfer the mouths after forming as the brass is thicker than the pistol brass.
If you have any questions PM me and I will try to help.

[arjacobson]

I have loaded and shot a few thousands rounds for my tok. I ended up just getting starline brass. I use lees mold sized to .310. Tumble lube with 45/45/10. Straight wheel weight. hodgen h110 powder . I am going to start using blue dot as I have just acquired 4 lbs of the stuff. I was having chambering trouble until I bought the lee factory crimp die. The tok brass is VERY easy to buckle when crimping unless you use the FC die. I have had almost no leading and the accuracy has been fantastic.. Very fun pistol!!

[Artful]

I don't use the TT-33 but CZ-52 for 7.62x25 - I found that if you adjust your recoil spring to correct poundage it doesn't through the brass to next tuesday. I have yet to start reloading as I bought several thousand surplus rounds to shoot. But intend to think of it as a 30 carbine when reloading it.

[MtGun44]

James,

Might I be so forward as to inquire about your budget for the pistol purchase? I am not much
of a fan of Soviet block guns in general, especially the pistols. The Tsar was interested in
quantity over quality, and I have a few MN 91s and 91/30, M44, M38, etc. They are not much,
but will definitely work if the bore is good. The Russians never were much of shooters, more
spray and pray, which is one of the reasons that a tiny country like Finland handed them their
heads by having real marksmen chew up bunches of their troops, and by the way using
the cartridge and action but a new barrel, stock and sights to do it with. The AK is a good
example, the work well but are not much for accuracy.

Rooskies are even less serious about pistol shooting than they are about rifle shooting. I have
not shot the TT-33, but have handled them and they are pretty rough. For all I know, they
may be great shooters, but I doubt it. Also, the round is very high pressure and small bore,
not optimum for cast. Not saying that it won't work, but you may be able to find something
like an older police turn in semi-auto in a more moderate caliber which is more cast friendly
and has readily available brass and many mold designs. You sound like you are serious about
getting to be a great shot, and I wonder how long it would be before you were handicapped
by an inaccurate pistol?

How about the P1/P38s? I have one and it is a good shooter. Not a fan of the first shot
with dbl action semi-autos, but the single action trigger is quite useable and it will easily shoot
into 1.5" standing at 12 yds when plinking with my cast boolit handloads. I picked up a P6/
Sig 225 9mm and it is a very high quality gun, fairly accurate and reliable, too. Both of these will
run about $320-350, about 1.6 times what the TT-33 will go for, and knowing how hard money
was to come by for me when I was your age, it may be totally out of the question.

There are a lot of $250-350 range pistols and revolvers out there, and if you can stretch up
to one of these, I expect you will find a .38 Spl, .357 Mag, or 9mm Para to be a bunch easier
to load for. JG Sales has S&W .38 Spls for $260 and up. The Hungarian Hi-Powers copies (FEG)
are well made and half what a Belgian real HP costs, still seen at gun shows some times. There
are some Belgian made Israeli surplus real HPowers out there now for $400, getting up there a bit
in price.

If you are really hot for the TT-33, or the budget just can't be increased, give it a go, you may
really enjoy it and it may turn out to be accurate, too. I started out with a Ruger Std Auto in
.22 LR and it taught me a lot about shooting, but you sound like you are ready for a centerfire.

Bill

[leadman]

I had a Tok, did not keep it long. Actually had a couple, first one had an added on safety and every time it was fired the safety would go on!
You may want to look at something chambered in 9 X18 Mak, like the Makarov, FEG, CZ. Brass is cheap to buy or can be made from 9 X19. Lee has a pretty good mold for it also. Doesn't take much powder either.
The ultimate gun to start with in my opinion would be a 38 Special revolver. Brass is everywhere, bullets are cheap, take little powder. Tons of cast designs available. Makes a good small game gun also. Marginal for deer but has worked.

[kjg]

Hey ok now for the good news, forget the others, I've got a cz52 , and a yuho m57, now I've ordered starline brass and use it, but both I'd them prefer, win.223 brass, I use lee7.62 tokarov dies, I take out the sizer pin, and lube the case, like normal rifle cases, run them in slowly, and smoothly, cut the case with a tube cutter,and then run them in through my Lyman case trimmer, replace the sizing bell and knock out primer if shot from my AR, then use 2.0 grains of bullseye, and a lee115 grain cast bullet ( for the m1 carbine, seat then and crimp them they are fun and desent, shooters,

One of the guys don't like comblock weapons- so is biased toward them, hey... I've gotton my chicom pinned sks to shoot, ideal 311415 and imr3103, into 1" at 130 meters, at my range, roughy 150 yrds, as well as a crappy Romanian wsar ak, so don't believe that other stuff , just have fun try it you do t lime it dump em for something else.

[Dutchman]

I bought one of the new/unissued Polish TT33 when they first hit the U.S. market. It is beautifully manufactured. Forged slide & frame. I hated to be the first to fire an unfired gun like that but I did:).

The Tokarev is a hybrid between the FN1903 and Browning/Colt 1911. It was begat of this lineage due to the Russian experience with the FN1903 in a Moscow city police contract earlier in the century. The FN1903 (Swedish m/1907) is a blow back 9x20mm pistol. Tokarev mated the toggle-link locked breech with the FN1903 and added his own "module" hammer assembly that lifts out intact. Mechanically the TT33 is a wonderfully thought out pistol.

The drawbacks..... My Polish TT33 has the added safety lever required at the time for import. Native Tokarev pistols do not have a safety. They have a generous half-cock notch on the hammer. There is no grip safety as in the later Browning designs.

The other drawback is the grip ergonomics. The grip size is just a tad small for my Dutch mitts. And the grip angle is oh-so ackward being more vertical than the 1911 design. John Browning fixed that in the Model 1910 by FN.

http://images59.fotki.com/v683/photos/2/28344/157842/DSCF0026-vi.jpg
http://images54.fotki.com/v104/photos/2/28344/157842/DSCF0027-vi.jpg

FN 1903 - Swedish m/1907 caliber 9x20 Browning Long
http://images109.fotki.com/v79/photos/2/28344/157842/005-vi.jpg

The Colt 1903 followed along and was hugely successful and very popular.

Dutch

[Jamesconn]

Im not just after the TT-33 because I want a cheap gun, although I hate russian guns for the exact reasons you said and cause they are not reloader friendly too like brass is a PITA to obtain.
I am after it because its penetration I want a pistol that can punch through body armor not going to use it for that but just nice to know Im going to try to enhance its penetration ability by making "special" projectiles and I am also after it because of its reliablity and I feel weird not owning some russian gun.
I am also going to make it one of the SHTF guns for my group. I havent shot it yet but I want to see if they make grips for it I will also keep one in my truck. They are cheap enough to stash all over the house.
This will not be my first pistol I will be purchasing a judge special defender for my CCW and i will practice with that the most, but this will be my #2 because its ability to penetrate almost anything. As much as I would like modern weapons to be made in this caliber for its abilities I think that it will just cause unwanted attention to the anti gun crowd and ive read an article that said it went through a II bullet resistand vest and 12in into the ballistics jelly as the FN only whent 5-6in which I was lookin at before because of penetration but it is way too expensive and at $0.50 a round and impossible to reload it did not seem like a smart choice.

In the coming years when i get training as machinist and gunsmith i would like to rechamber one of hipoints carbines for this round or maybe another carbine of some sort and make a drum mag for it and id be set for all the redneck targets there are.

Although you can get brass for this gun i think i will reshape 5.56 brass for it sense it is thicker and will probably last longer. I was going to buy H110 for my M1 carbine and if it uses same projectiles too thats great but what about primers im going to use small pistol for the
M1 do have to get magnum primers for this one?
Can i use 110 grain FMJ that im going to get for my carbine in this too most of the projectile weights ive seen for this round are 80-90 grains.

[crazy mark]

I have 2 Toks and they both shoot great with 77 to 95 gr RN boolits. One is a Chicom copy and the other is Polish. The Chicom has both the 9mm and 7.62 barrels for it. I carry mine concealed in the winter as it is one potent round for a pistol. I guess I happened to get good ones.

[frnkeore]

After WW2 the NRA tested 45ACP, 9mmx19 and the 7.62x25. They did rapid and slow fire accuracy testing as well as penetration testing on the G.I. steel helmet.

The Tok came in first in rapid fire for accuracy and was the only cartridge to penetrate the steel G.I. helmet.

I do not know why they replaced it!

I use 110 gr carbine bullets in mine and 11.0 gr, WC820. I have also shot 71 gr, 32ACP bullets with 6.6 gr Unque.

Frank

[Wayne Smith]

If you are enamored with the cartridge get the CZ52. Much stronger action and overall better pistol.

[arjacobson]

I love my tok. I believe it is the yugo version. Wouldn't mind having a few more of them. I already have a few pistols in 9mm mak and pick up different ones whenever I find them. Looks like I will start doing the same with toks..

[Springfield]

Except the CZ52 is much larger and he says he wants it for a CCW gun. If you just want a gun for penetration load 357 mag with light jacketed bullets. Or do like I did once upon a time and load 9mm AE with light jacketed bullets. But then the gun gets larger again.

[frnkeore]

I wanted a CZ52 before I got my Norinco. After getting it, I started searching for loads and came across a forum that no longer exists. I found a lot of hot loads on it and some interesting info on the two guns.

CZ, chamber dia. = .590
Tok = .640

CZ, barrel dia = .468
Tok = .494

CZ, chamber wall = .100
Tok = .125

CZ, barrel wall = .080
Tok = .093

Barrel burst strength (weakest area) assuming same material.

CZ = 94,000 psi
Tok = 109,000 psi

The guy that supplied the above data, also blew two CZ52's up and with loads hotter than that, was never able to blow the Tok up, even when the cases failed.

I also read that the CZ is machined to a thinner section in the area of the rollers and that is where they burst.

Frank

[arjacobson]

I thought the tok was stronger. I have heard the cz being stronger was a wives tale. All I can say is my tok has run alot of lead reloads through it. Most of them are not max loads but pretty stout anyway.. great pistols

[arjacobson]

I thought the tok was stronger. I have heard the cz being stronger was a wives tale. All I can say is my tok has run alot of lead reloads through it. Most of them are not max loads but pretty stout anyway.. great pistols

[9.3X62AL]

Either the Tokarev or the CZ-52 run with 85-90 grain bullets will stay together quite well if run at 1400 FPS. Either pistol will burst your eardrums at that intensity, so good hearing protection is advised.

I never "got" the object of running the 85 grainers to 1700+ FPS as in the Hornady manuals--you won't expand the range of game animals by doing so, or flatten the trajectory significantly. You could set off earthquakes in fault zones, I suppose.

[frnkeore]

The load that blew up the CZ52 was 13.7 gr of AA#9 with a 110 FMJ bullet.

He took the Tok to 15.3 of the same powder & bullet and it opened the primer pocket useing S&B brass. Starline opened up at 14.2 gr.

AA lists 42,000 CUP max load as 11.7 gr #9 and the 110 gr bullet. I substitute WC 820 for the #9 in my Norinco.

Frank

[9.3X62AL]

HIJO LA! My sane load for 85 grain XTPs has been 7.7 grains of AA-7 for many years. That same load did well with Lyman #311419 in both the ChiCom Tok and the CZ-52.

[cuzinbruce]

I had a TT-33 a while back. Russian WWII gun, no safety, no import marks. Not much of a shooter. The barrel was frosted full length and it would not keep bullets on the paper at 25 yards. I used Wolf factory ammo, bought two boxes at a gun show, have 1+ box left. The gun was crudely made, lousy sights, lousy trigger. It served it's purpose back in the 40's but it would not be a good choice if you want to shoot it a lot. There are lots of other guns that would be more fun to shoot. Whether you are serious about target shooting or just plinking. I got tired of looking at it and put it on Gunbroker. Did nicely there! $$$
If you are planning to reload, you might want to think about a revolver. It gets to be a drag picking up the fired cases from where an auto tosses them. A .38 Spl, say a Smith 1905 or a K-38, or even a police turn in Model 10, or equivalent Colt, would be fun to shoot a 1000 rounds a month. And the reloading would be simpler and cheaper.
Just my thoughts. Good Luck.

[HodakaGA]

I love my Romanian TT-33 but it does sling brass 30+feet. I got a refurbed like-new gun from Southern Ohio Guns last Christmas for under $160 with 2 mags and a holster. I've never bought any of the surplus ammo. I have shot about 6 boxes of Wolf Gold non-corrosive through it. Mine is a good tight accurate gun.

One day I'll work up a load using boolits from my 30 carbine mold.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I purchased a Yugo M57 last year, and it appeared to be unfired. It is more accurate than I am with surplus ammo. I ordered a box of Starline brass, and use it with the 311-93-1R boolit, and AA#5. I have just started working up a load, but l am using a light load that just functions the action, and it is quite accurate. The M57 are very inexpensive and they have a longer grip and hold an extra round of ammo, they also have a captive recoil spring, other than that they are good copies of the Tok. Using the light load, the brass does not go into low earth orbit and usually drops about 10 ft behind me to the left. Surplus ammo throws brass at least 25 feet. I am considering buying another for my "truck gun". They also make a decent CCW as they are very thin and carry well.

G