New purchase

[Dale53]

Was at a gun show the other day and spotted a nice Taurus Tracker (blued) in .44 Magnum. The gentleman who owned it and I were not able to quite reach an agreement on price. The revolver is like new, has the box, and a couple of speed loaders. It has a 4" barrel.

Well, today, we reached an agreement. I have a house full of .44 magnums and I have little need nor desire to shoot this rather light revolver with full house .44 magnum loads. However, it strikes me that it will make a near perfect match as a handy, easy carrying .44 special. I plan to shoot mostly the Skeeter Skelton load (well, they call it that but I was using it before Skeeter did:roll:). That is, 7.5 grains of Unique behind a 240-250 gr Keith bullet. Sweet load and VERY effective (you should see how it works on feral cats[smilie=1:).

Needless to say, I am already dying to get it to the range. I already have lots of this load ready to go (that has been a standard .44 Special load for me for many years).

Dale53

[NVcurmudgeon]

Dale53, I get a few smirks, and even some cyber-smirks when I reveal my favorite, and nearly only, .44 Magnum load. It is the RCBS 250 gr. Keith type PB SWC and 7.0 gr. Green Dot. (Thanks Shuz.) The load is 1200 fps from the 24" Marlin Cowboy, and 900-950 fps from various S&W revolvers with 6" and 8 3/8" barrels. Very accurate, even for long range rock busting, and you can shoot it all day. Equal ballistics to a .45 Colt in the pistol, and beats a .44/40 rifle in the Marlin. I'm guessing it's in the velocity range of your Skeeter load. Only glitch is that cases have to be trimmed .010" shorter than "trim-to" length to make it feed in the Marlin, the revolver doesn't seem to mind.

[Dale53]

NVcurmudgeon;
I have three .44 Special revolvers (er-r-r-r, I erred-I have four[smilie=1:). So, I long ago decided to run my .44 magnums with "full" loads and shoot my .44 specials when I needed or wanted the milder Skeeter load. However, I am looking at this Taurus as a "crossover". I'll be mostly shooting it with Skeeter loads and just occasionally with full house .44 mag loads. I have lots of both Special AND Mag cases so it is easy to identify each.

Just this week I sent a check in for the Group Buy .44 dbl ended wadcutter. Can you see where this is going? Can you think of a better carry load than a .44 Special soft Wad Cutter? I normally advise anyone to use only factory loads for carry but I may just make a "slight detour" in judgment here. :) "Your honor, I was just using my "target" loads and suddenly the emergency arose and that is all I had with me".[smilie=1:

Yeah, I know, I am a BAD boy but I'll get better:mrgreen:.

Dale53

[mtngunr]

My loads in my .44Spl OMBH conversion ran between 1000fps-1100fps using the Keith solid....although a confirmed .45 fan at 900fps-1000fps, I knew that little .44 number would surely penetrate better....

[45 2.1]

Just this week I sent a check in for the Group Buy .44 dbl ended wadcutter. Can you see where this is going? Can you think of a better carry load than a .44 Special soft Wad Cutter? I normally advise anyone to use only factory loads for carry but I may just make a "slight detour" in judgment here. :) "Your honor, I was just using my "target" loads and suddenly the emergency arose and that is all I had with me".[smilie=1: Dale53

Actually, I have a 429360 with a very wide and deep hollow point that is devastating on small and smaller large game at normal 44 special loads. While I like its effectiveness, I also like "your" excuse much better for the DEWC should that type of thing happen. :mrgreen:

[Larry Gibson]

The 429421 or RCBS 45-250 with 7.5 gr Unique in Special cases runs 810 fps out of my 4" Anaconda and 840+/- fps out of my 6" Hawes and 6 1/2" Ruger NMFT. I picked up a Lee 6 holer TL429-240-SWC and it is shooting very well and pleasantly over 5 gr of Bullseye in Special cases.

Larry Gibson

[Bass Ackward]

Well I am going to disagree again. This is because, if you live where heavy clothing can be encountered, you want a solid, heavier anything to ensure the individual recieves more than a little sting. As cold as it is here now ............

I have tried wadcutters and hollow based wadcutters and have had incidents where complete clothing wasn't penetrated if losely packed. If clothing or drugs might be an issue, soft wadcutters and hollow based wadcutters might not guarantee penetration of the outer skin losely packed.

Any solid weighing more than 240 grains would penetrate at 800 fps or more even with some distance involved. Just test what ever you want to rely on as you are going to bet your life on it. :grin:

[45 2.1]

Nobody said a thing about shooting thru clothes, now did they. :mrgreen:

[Dale53]

BassAckward;
Thanks for the "heads up". However, while I WILL test, I would think that a 200 gr solid Wadcutter at 800-900 fps should do the job.

That reminds me of a remark from a VERY experienced man hunter of my acquaintance. He said that the only 100% stopper was a wadcutter in the left eye...

He was in more shoot outs with truly bad guys that anyone I have known. He was also a superb shot and worked well "under pressure". He had tried everything from a 12 gauge with a Brenneke slug at point blank range to various pistols and revolvers. there is no substitute for experience.

Dale53

[Dale53]

Well, I picked up my Taurus Tracker .44 magnum this evening. I brought it home and first thing I did was drop a Keith 240 gr bulleted .44 magnum load in the cylinder. As I suspected, the nose of the Keith bullet (Lyman 429421) stuck out the front of the cylinder!!:( SAAMI standards sometimes suck....


Now this is the same problem that you will run into with several brands of .357 magnums when you try to use the Keith 358429 - it'll stick out of the end of the cylinder. The solution is to use .38 Special cases and reduce the powder charge to fit. Or you can deep seat the bullet and crimp over the front band (I don't care for this - it also reduces case capacity and requires you to "back off" the powder charge).

I'll just use the Skeeter load (7.5 Unique with the 429421 bullet in .44 Special Cases). If I want more power, I'll just use the Keith load in .44 Special brass (with modern cases, 16.0-16.5 2400 behind the Keith bullet). You'll want to work up this load as reportedly, the "new" 2400 requires a reduction in powder charge.

As I stated before, I will be using the Skeeter load almost entirely until I get my Group Buy 200 gr dbl ended Wad Cutter. At that time I'll work up a good "target" load for this revolver.

Dale53

[mtngunr]

My impression is that both 2400 and Unique are bit faster burning since "improved/cleaner" took effect, a 10% reduction in listed max charge being prudent....8.5grs/Herco/KeithBullet will get you suprising power in the Special case, it being just a smidge slower than old Unique, perhaps eqiv. to 8.0-8.2grs/old Unique....personally wouldn't recommend that load for pre-WWII S&W's, but good for post-WWII Colt SAA's and other HIGH QUALITY guns with similarly sized cylinders, although I wouldn't recommend a constant diet of it in a Colt (smaller ratchet pads)....

[Thin Man]

[QUOTE=Dale53;147147]Well, I picked up my Taurus Tracker .44 magnum this evening. I brought it home and first thing I did was drop a Keith 240 gr bulleted .44 magnum load in the cylinder. As I suspected, the nose of the Keith bullet (Lyman 429421) stuck out the front of the cylinder!!:( SAAMI standards sometimes suck....

Same story here. A short while back I brought home a Taurus model 415 which is the medium+ frame 41 magnum, brushed stainless steel 5-shot model with 2 1/2 inch barrel. Just to test the waters, I dropped a dummy round loaded with our 41-220K group buy boolit in the cylinder. As above, the boolit poked out the face of the cylinder. Bummer. Seems that Taurus never read the SAAMI rule books. I will remember this on future considerations of their products. Now I have options of seating this boolit with the front driving band at the top of the case or switching to a shorter nose profile. Not happy with either, but WILL play with this Taurus. With this short barrel , I plan only moderate loads to help reduce muzzle flip and not aggravate the arthritis. Could someone PLEASE send a nice request to Taurus. Suggest that when they have finished machining their cylinders and start the clean-up washing, do NOT throw them in the dryer as the last step in the process. Just hang them on the line so they can dry but not shrink like a favorite pair of jeans in a dryer. On that thought, I'm not getting wider, it's just that nasty dryer shrinking all my jeans!
Thin Man

[jim4065]

Has anyone measured the Taurus cylinder to compare it to max cartridge overall of a 44 mag? In other words - is it over 1.61"? Kind of a strange error for Taurus to make - and would sure keep me from buying one.

[Dale53]

mim4065;
I am sure that the Taurus meets SAAMI standards. Read above, the .357 Keith bullet (357429) will not work with .357 brass, either, in the S&W Model 27. It is too long. The same thing is happening here with the Keith 429421. However, It is not a terrible problem, I can just use shorter bullets or shorter cases. In my case, I will use the .44 Special cases and use heavy .44 Special loads if necessary.

If I didn't have any other .44 magnums, I would probably be upset. However, since I have several, this will be used with the Skeeter load almost exclusively.

I won't be chronographing anything until Spring breaks. However, after the weather change, I will run these over the chronograph.

If I were faced with the same thing in a .41 Mag Taurus Tracker, I would just shorten my cases to ".41 Special" length, run them in a brass color bath (so you can readily identify them) and load them appropriately. No big deal, really, as long as you are aware of the problem.

Dale53

[lar45]

Will the 44 DEWC be short enough to load 2 in a case?

I was playing with my 4" 500 S&W trying to find a light plinking load. I tried some 360gn hollow base minnies, but loaded backwards and flush with the case mouth. The lower velocity loads showed key holes in the targets. When the velocity got up around 1100fps the groups got small. I don't know if they were staybilizeing finally or what?? I'll probably have to spend some more time there.

I tried some light loads with the 429421(?) and WC820 in 44mag Ruger Bisley. The powder worked fine down to 800fps and gave decent groups with no ignition problems.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd be quiet comfortable using my reloads for self defense, but there is no way I'd anything other than premium factory ammo for this appliaction. Imagine some lawyer, saying that you were pre mediatated in your intent, using super fast 'special handloaded ammunitionthat killed better!.' We know it's a crock, but I'd be trying to keep things as simple as possible in the courtroom.

[Dale53]

4fingermick;
>>>but there is no way I'd anything other than premium factory ammo for this appliaction. Imagine some lawyer, saying that you were pre mediatated in your intent, using super fast 'special handloaded ammunitionthat killed better!.'<<<

Of course, you are absolutely correct. However, I just might make an exception for my "target" ammo...

Dale53

[MT Gianni]

Mick, By definition self defense should not be pre-meditated. It should occur as a result of others action. I believe "it was what I had on hand at the time" should be an acceptable defense anywhere. Gianni.

[Dale53]

I happened to open the Lyman #47 Reloading Manual. The "mystery" is solved. Maximum length of the .44 magnum is 1.610". The Keith 429421 seated normally to the crimp groove has an overall length of 1.710". That "extra" .100" is where the problem arises. The Keith bullet, in .44 magnum cases, exceeds maximum allowable cartridge length. Of course, my S&W Model 29's, my Ruger SBH and Red Hawk's cylinders are all long enough to "never mind".

No big deal, but interesting nevertheless...

Dale53

[Maven]

Dale,

I read of your problem with interest since I have a similar one with my Dan Wesson and Ly. #358429 (fits my Ruger BH just fine). Brian Pearce, in a recent issue of "Handloader" suggested a solution: Simply trim the cartridges ~0.10" shorter and mark or otherwise segregate them from the others. I've done this and it works. A second way to accomplish this (It avoids trimming entirely.) is to seat #429421 deeper, i.e., so that the band nearest the nose is entirely in the case and then taper crimp it in place. I do this when I don't want separate loaded rounds for the DW & Ruger and frankly, I've seen no difference in accuracy because of it.

Hope this helps,

Paul