.45-70 Levergun Dies

[TXGunNut]

Seems I haven't been using the right dies to build .45-70 rounds for my Guide Gun. The Hornady New Dimension dies may not have been intended for CB's. Sizer sized them too small, expander expanded them too big. Today I tried the Lyman short neck sizing die, a .457 insert for my Lee expander and a Lyman taper crimp die to top things off. Very nice, loads look good! Even seemed to work better for a few J-bullets I felt compelled to load, just for comparison. I like neck tension on a levergun load, I had a few J-bullets move back into the case a bit on a recent trip where we had to unload/reload several times a day. I think it will give me better consistency as well. At least the Hornady seating die works well! Makes a nice roll crimp when needed as well.
Gonna be busy painting and/or plumbing again next weekend, can hardly wait to test my theories. :-(

[Ramslammer]

G'Day
Load all my 45/70 loads with a Lyman 310 tool. Flares the cases nicely for CB. Never put that other type in it.
Juddy

[GP100man]

TGN

Just loaded 60rnds for the season & I`ll say this is 1 cartridge that I purchased the Lee FCD for & it works !!!

[Greg B.]

I like the Lyman "M" die set for the 45/70. It works well for my Marlin 1895.

Greg B.

[TXGunNut]

My only other Lyman dies are in a black box, been awhile. I'd say they are close to 30 yrs old and I wasn't too impressed with them. Both new dies need a bit of polishing but I'm in no hurry.
Lyman 310 sounds like fun. I could probably do my 45-90 with one pretty easily if they made the dies. I'd like to find an old one somewhere so I can put it on the mantle when I get tired of it. Years ago I saw Winchester's version in 45 Colt at a gun show and it was gone before I realized what it was & turned around.
Still studying on the FCD GP100man. Guess I need to buy one someday just to study how it works. I'm afraid it would swage down my boolits and I'd prefer they were a few thousandths larger, not smaller.

[btroj]

I use Lee dies, no problem.
I canr imagine why the Hornady expander would be big enough to give poor tension with cast. Jacketed bullets will likely be smaller than the cast so tension for them would be lower.

I do have a Lee FCD for 45-70. It will not swage down the bullet as it doesn't have the carbid ring like the pistol dies do. The rifle ones crimp only, the pistol ones crimp AND have a carbide ring in the bottom to ensure the entire case is within specs. This ring is what can swage down a large for caliber cast bullet.

[MtGun44]

I use the Hornady dies, love them, do a great job.

Bill

[TXGunNut]

I can't imagine why the Hornady expander would be big enough to give poor tension with cast. Jacketed bullets will likely be smaller than the cast so tension for them would be lower. -btroj

I think it has to do with the flaring step. I need almost no flare for j-bullets, die has to come down quite a bit more for sufficient flare for my boolits. Hornady makes excellent dies but they just weren't the right tool for this job, apparently. I may have gotten an undersize sizing die as well, it happens. Never meant to imply that Hornady doesn't make good dies, just wanted to point out how the specialty dies from Lyman and Lee helped me do a better job of loading my precious boolits. Hornady seating die definitely a keeper, tho. Keeps that boolit lined up and seats it straight in 45-70 and 45-90 cases.

[Baja_Traveler]

Die set not mentioned yet are the RCBS Cowboy die series - they are designed for use with Cast only.

I use this set for my 45-70 Sharps, and it works great.

[TXGunNut]

Good point. I got into 45-70 several years ago, before I started casting my own. If I did it all over again the Cowboy dies would certainly be worth a look...may still be. Thanks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a Lee set of .45-70 dies and today I just ordered another bullet seating die from Titan Reloading closest distributor to Lee(3 miles) in WI. Good guy to deal with www.titanreloading.com 262-244-7023

I will remove the seating stem from the new die and use it as roll crimp die on My C&H 4 stage press.

The setup runs,,, Expand and charge the already sized and primed case, Seat Bullet and Crimp,,, 3 stations. 3 moves, complete round

I have a separate bullet seating and crimp die (usually a standard bullet seater with the stem removed ) for just about every caliber I load.

For .223 .308 and .30-06 I bought a regular RCBS Die Set and then added the precision seating die with the bullet window. It makes loading those J rounds much easier. But the process is exactly the same.

That Lee 45-70 Bullet Seating Die cost $12.37! Can you hear that Redding?

Randy

[TXGunNut]

I'm pretty old-fashioned, Randy. I enjoy reloading my rifle (and 45 Colt) cartridges on a single-stage press and when I crimp I do it after I seat the bullet or boolit. Agreed that Lee's prices and products are awesome. Happen to be the proud owner of an RCBS 22-250 Comp die set, and no, we won't discuss the price.:groner:
Funny thing about the .45-70. I treat it as two (or three or four) different cartridges these days. I have j-bullet near-max loads for my Guide Gun just in case Texas Parks & Wildlife decides we have a huntable T-Rex population. I also have j-bullet loads that git-r-done without detaching retinas or shoulders. ;) Now I want a CB load that launches a boolit at BP velocities or a bit more for hunting TX whitetail and piggies. I also have a Sharps that is marked "45-70" but has a very nicely cut 45-90 chamber. Despite their similarities I've decided I'm loading three (four?) different cartridges; a potent j-bullet smokeless powder cartridge, an old-school smokeless CB hunting load, and a traditional BP/CB target load. Some components overlap but I feel I'll get the best results by treating each type of load as an individual cartridge with different tools and techniques.
The Hornady dies work as issued for both 45-70 smokeless j-bullet loads. The CB levergun loads seem to require the Lyman sizing and t-crimp dies with a Lee flaring die and the .45-90 needs occasional or no resizing, some special handling for BP and a very slight or no crimp.
Started this post thinking about a turret press but I'd have to set up three turrets. Guess I'll stick with my old single stage.

[August]

I use Hornady dies for 45-70. Have a three die set and extra seating dies for various gunz.

I also have a Lyman neck sizer on hand for precision work.

I use the Hornady dies for all my lever gunz and all the single shots.

I have always been more than pleased with the outcome -- both in terms of operation of the gun and performance on the target.

[Sonnypie]

Ya know...
Here I was thinkin you had had a major loss in the gun box, a calamity in the cupboard, a snafu in the safe, a reckoning at the range....
I was all braced for a wake.

So since you weren't using the right dies, what were you using left dies?

And Randy, I guess you done let the cat out of the bag about Titan Reloading...
Great folks and fast shipping on their end. Best prices to be found on the WWW!

My only snafu I had was when USPS decided to send one of my orders to Saugus, Maine.
Never mind the bar code, never mind the zip code, never mind the damned State...
EVERYBODY knows Aunt Tilly lives in Saugus, MAINE.
Yeah, let's privatize the Post Office! [smilie=1:

OK. So it isn't a wake. Can we have a wine cooler anyway? :drinks:

[TXGunNut]

Skip the winecooler, Sonnypie, I stock only quality wines...in a cooler. :smile: Help yourself, reds toward the top, whites towards the bottom and since you're company we can pull a cork from one of the good French wines.
Nope, Guide Gun is alive and kicking (pun intended) but I felt the need to refine my loading technique by compelling my favorite mail-order vendors to send me new shiny bits. Will know tomorrow how they worked but the loose nut pulling the lever is a suspicious constant here.

[TXGunNut]

New dies worked great, eyes and nerves not so much. That's a 50/50 WW 457193 over 35grs 4198. Didn't do much better with my j-bullet load so it was pretty encouraging. Maybe next time I'll be shooting well enough to post some bragging pics.