I've got a question

[got_lead?]

Are plain base boolits more accurate than the gas checked variety when no gas check is used on the gas check design?

[Hickory]

Generally, No.
But there can be exceptions.

[44man]

Maybe!
I class them with bevel base boolits, some shoot some don't.

[turbo1889]

In my experience a plain base boolit shoots better then an equivalent gas checked boolit without a gas check. That said, there is a time and a place for using a gas checked design (with the gas check installed).

[btroj]

44man is right. Maybe.
This is one of those situations with no single, solid answer. Sometimes you just have to see what your gun likes or doesn't like.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm going to say "generally" PB cast bullets are more accurate. In handguns, revolver & autos, a PB cast bullet with a true flat base will definately be more accurate that a GC'd bullet sans the GC, most often more accurate than bevel based bullets too.

In rifles a flat based PB cast bullet will almost always be more accurate at velocities above 800 fps.

Larry Gibson

[mdi]

In my guns, I shoot a lot of Lyman' 429421 plain base bullets. I don't/can't test the accuracy more than a two handed hold with a bench rest and I haven't tried a gas checked bullet without a gas check lately. But my Ruger SBH seems to like my 421s better than the Lyman 429244 with a gas check installed (a similar design but gas checked)...

BTW; I'd be more concerned with leading when shooting a non-checked bullet designed for checks...

[Crawdaddy]

I hope this has cleared up any ambiguity! The answers seem to be, yes, no and maybe.

Wish I could help.

[1Shirt]

Yep, go with 44Man, there are no absolutes!
1Shirt!

[MtGun44]

I have limited experience, but IME, the plain is more accurate.

Bill

[geargnasher]

The only answer that will be valid is to try it in YOUR gun and see how it compares. If you are asking because you're trying to make an educated purchase on moulds, I'd say either go with a plain-based design or plan on using checks if you buy a GC design, because it might not shoot as well without the checks as a plain-based one would.

Gear

[Bret4207]

IME the PB will normally be more accurate than a GC design sans GC. I suppose if you were to take the time to ensure each GC shank was free from tags and uneven edges and that the base was uniformly flat and level it would reduce any error, but I haven't gone to those lengths myself. In a cast friendly gun with a good load the accuracy difference at short ranges may be small. As things get longer it will show more. In a finicky gun it may not work at all.

[williamwaco]

I have said this before so at the risk or boring the regulars, I will say it again.

There is only one iron clad rule regarding which cast bullet shoots better.
Here it is:

If it works in your gun, use it!


Just because it doesn't work in my gun, doesn't mean it won't shoot cloverleafs from your gun.

[geargnasher]

So true, Williamwaco. The rub is that often we want to predict how well something will likely work before we spend money on it. The reality of only being able to know for sure by trying something and analyzing the results might be why I have so many more moulds than and powder types than I have guns!

Gear

[got_lead?]

I am just getting started shooting cast in rifles, and honestly feel like I'm at the bottom of the learning curve right now. I am working with my first high power rifle of 30 years ago, a marlin 336. I'm using the Lee 170 gn flat nose sized at .310 (this is the largest I can chamber) and lubed up with NRA. 8 grains of Hodg Universal pushes it out at 1250 fps, with no leadding whatsoever. My accuracy is mediocre, 2 to 3 inches at 70 yards. I am in the process of working up loads in this powder, and several others. Maybe I should weigh the boolits, as well as give the bases a good looking over before loading them for accuracy work-ups.

I did have better luck with some 115 grain commercial cast, I got 1.5" groups at 70 yards pushing these fellows with about 9 grains of Universal, and getting about 1450 fps. These were plain base boolits (with just a bit of bevel). I kind of like the crack-boom these fast lightweights make, and they throw a pop can pretty nice. Easy on the shoulder too.

I sure wish my shooting spot was right in my backyard instead of 35 miles away. I'd have all this whipped in short order. More boolits, less gas.

[a.squibload]

I have the RCBS 215gn 44 gc mold around here somewhere, used to load it
without the checks, don't remember any real difference in how they shot, but
I barely remember last Thursday.
I always thought it was kinda light for 44, but maybe that was a macho thing.;)

[Bret4207]

I am just getting started shooting cast in rifles, and honestly feel like I'm at the bottom of the learning curve right now. I am working with my first high power rifle of 30 years ago, a marlin 336. I'm using the Lee 170 gn flat nose sized at .310 (this is the largest I can chamber) and lubed up with NRA. 8 grains of Hodg Universal pushes it out at 1250 fps, with no leadding whatsoever. My accuracy is mediocre, 2 to 3 inches at 70 yards. I am in the process of working up loads in this powder, and several others. Maybe I should weigh the boolits, as well as give the bases a good looking over before loading them for accuracy work-ups.

I did have better luck with some 115 grain commercial cast, I got 1.5" groups at 70 yards pushing these fellows with about 9 grains of Universal, and getting about 1450 fps. These were plain base boolits (with just a bit of bevel). I kind of like the crack-boom these fast lightweights make, and they throw a pop can pretty nice. Easy on the shoulder too.

I sure wish my shooting spot was right in my backyard instead of 35 miles away. I'd have all this whipped in short order. More boolits, less gas.


Just a thought, but I wonder if the 170's would tighten up a bit if you pushed them a little harder. Lighter/shorter boolits are easier to get to stabilize. I don't know if your 170's are unstable, but it's worth looking into. Any evidence of oblong rather than round holes is the thing you look for.

Personally, 2-3 inches at 70 yards with my first loads would have made me jump for joy 35 years back!

[MikeS]

If the designs you're looking at aren't way out custom designs, there's a good chance someone here has the mould. You might want to look in the boolit exchange, and see if you can get some sample boolits from the moulds you're interested in. Then you can load them, and feed them to your gun and see what it says. Then after finding 'the' boolit, hope that the mould of it that you buys throws the same boolit as the samples you got, and that your gun(s) still like them.

Just one way to take some of the guess work out of the picture.

[tek4260]

Why not just check it like it was designed to be? I know people say they are expensive, but why not spend that $30 and not worry about leading and reduced accuracy for the next 1000 shots :)

[geargnasher]

Why not just check it like it was designed to be? I know people say they are expensive, but why not spend that $30 and not worry about leading and reduced accuracy for the next 1000 shots :)

Yup. 2-3" at 50 yards was about the best I ever did with my 336 and un-checked Lee 170 fn's. The PB Ranch Dog 165 grease-groove boolit did about 2", sometimes less, but the un-checked, gas-check version of the same boolit shot about 3" with the same powder. I was using Longshot and Dacron filler to get around 1400 fps peak before accuracy started to drop off. Accuracy was non-existant by 1600 fps, these were straight air-cooled clip-on wheel weights at about 13 bhn if I recall right.

I added a check the Lee boolit and pushed it to over 2100 fps with 1.5 MOA accuracy using the same alloy. The check and refined reloading techniques witnh modified dies makes a big difference.

Gear

[HARRYMPOPE]

Are plain base boolits more accurate than the gas checked variety when no gas check is used on the gas check design?


I have found no difference comparing a "true" PB or GC less ones plain base loads with accuracy down to about 3/4 MOA. (in 30-06 sporters and one 30-30 bench rest rifle mainly)If the bullet is driven to 1100- 1200 fps or thereabout and fits the throat all seems well. I have taken the 311284 and 311299 and plain-based them and after there was absolutely no accuracy change.A fair test i think.In pistols teh 358156 without a GC with light loads of BullsEye always shot as good as other PB's for me.
But as others say you have to try in in your gun.

George

[Sonnypie]

Are plain base boolits more accurate than the gas checked variety when no gas check is used on the gas check design?

IMHO, you are taking one of the boolits, and asking it to operate out of it's designed criteria. Not really a fair comparison.
A GC design without the GC element.

IME... no load, and no boolit, is going to be any more accurate than the shaking leaf holding the weapon. ;-) [smilie=l:

[williamwaco]

So true, Williamwaco. The rub is that often we want to predict how well something will likely work before we spend money on it. The reality of only being able to know for sure by trying something and analyzing the results might be why I have so many more moulds than and powder types than I have guns!

Gear

Gear, You are correct. I did not make myself clear.

I always "try out" what I have before spending any money on something different.