Print Shop Lino?

[tred1956]

Hi,
Thinking of getting back into casting. I know it is a shame I ever got out. Been about twenty years since I cast. Always used clip on wheel weights. I worked with a guy today who is cleaning out his grandfathers old printing business. He said he had approx 600 pounds of lino left. Does it cast good bullets as is and if so what is the going price per pound? If not what needs to be added?

Hi again,
Here are a couple of pics of what he has:

IS THIS WHAT I WANT?

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/tred1956/scrap002.jpg

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/tred1956/scrap001.jpg

Thanks in advance,
Doug

[Jim_Fleming]

No, Doug, tell me where it's at and I'll be glad to take that Linotype off your hands... I'll even do it for nothing, my cost...

Seriously? You rascal! You are set! Good job! Take every ounce you can collect!

I forgot to mention, Linotype is considered to be just about the perfect Cast Boolit metal there is!

Great job, sir!

Sent from my Droid

[blaser.306]

It will cast great "hard" boolits, almost a shame to use it by its self ! I would cut it atleast 50/50 with pure lead and maybe more depending on what you are casting your boolits for ?

[tred1956]

Plan on casting for 44mag ,357 mag, and 41 mag. What is it selling for?
Thanks
Doug

[williamwaco]

It Casts beautiful bullets but they are way too hard. Almost like shooting FMJ.

Around here the price for used linotype is well north of a dollar a pound.

You can sell it on this site for at least a dollar a pound. Look over in the Swapping and Selling" section.

The best use of linotype is to mix it with scrap soft lead, about two scrap lead to about 1 linotype sill give you a great alloy.

A lot of people mix it half and half with wheel weights but in my opinion wheel weights are hard enough already.

You do not add anything to linotype. You add linotype to softer lead to harden it up. Lots has changed in the past 20 years. The first thing you need to do is take a look at this "book"

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

( It is free )

[tred1956]

So at 30 cents a pound it would be a DECENT investment.

Thanks for the quick responses.
Doug

[fecmech]

So at 30 cents a pound it would be a DECENT investment.

Thanks for the quick responses.
Doug

You are stealing it at that price!

[tred1956]

The sad news is he already took 700 + pounds to scrap yard . He said all he had left had already been used to print with. Does this make a difference? He may have close to 1000 ponds.

Safe shooting
Doug

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

there is a tendency, over time and multiple castings, for the tin and antimony to dross out. Most print shops send a sample out every couple months for analysis. Then then weigh their ingots and order enoug fresh concentrate alloy to bring it back to spec. For your purposes it is of no consequence. I would just add about 1/3rd pure lead to 1/2 WW and cast a few boolets to see just what you have.

Definitely buy it!

Rich

[P.K.]

WOW, Gold MINE!

[redneckdan]

Type is perfect for the calibers you listed. At really world plain base velocities I have had no problems with the alloy being too brittle. Crank it up to rifle velocities and I have noticed a tendency for type bullets to shatter on game animals.


PS- At 30 cents a pound you should be dancing nekkid in the street...

[Defcon-One]

I too was away from casting for about 20 years. I got back into it about a year ago and am really enjoying it again.

I have a good bit of clean linotype that I purchased for $1.50 per pound. It is mostly in small 3 lb. shop ingots that were cast after refreshing the alloy with plus metal, some is in strips. It runs dead on 4% Sn, 12% Sb, 84% Pb.

I would not sell mine for one cent less than I paid for it and I'd try to get more!

I mix exact casting alloys using this Linotype, Wheel Weight lead (COWW) and (SOWW, which are closer to pure lead), and a bit of 50/50 solder to get the Tin (Sn) where I want it.

My favorites are:

My #23 alloy (2% Sn, 3% Sb, 95% Pb) which I use for all of my handgun loads from 9mm to .44 magnum standard loads.

and My #55 alloy (5% Sn, 5% Sb, 90% Pb) which is just Lyman #2. I use this for rifle bullets and higher velocity handgun loads in the .44 mag and .357 mag.

For super fast rifle loads I go with pure Linotype, but I rarely use these as I do not see a need for it and I hate to waste my Linotype stash. Linotype is getting much harder to find.

You have found a somewhat valuable item. Something that is a necessity for the serious bullet caster. One last thing, check out Bumpo's alloy calculator (do a search here) and you can use it to develop and produce a "recipe" to make any alloy that you want.

Good Luck and welcome back to casting!

[williamwaco]

He said all he had left had already been used to print with. Does this make a difference? He may have close to 1000 ponds.

Doug


ABSOLUTELY NOT.

It is true that over time some of the tin and antimony will be lost but it has so much of it, it will always be an excellent buy.

I recommend you get it all. there are a hundred guys here that would love to offer you a fair profit on some of it.

[Jailer]

That's mono type not lino type.

Totally worthless, send it all to me and I'll dispose of it for you. :mrgreen:


ETA: Seriously though, if you need some wheel weight or pure to alloy that into something more usable for you I'd be more than happy to trade some with you. I've got plenty of both, but no mono or lino type and it wouldn't hurt to have some around.

[Defcon-One]

Just saw your added photo. It is Monotype! It is still good stuff, maybe even better for alloying, but not Linotype. Monotype is 9% Sn, 19% Sb, 72% Pb.

[Armorer]

+1 on it being monotype. I helped to facilitate the sale of many thousands of pounds of it to some happy boolitizers. I also agree on alloying it with soft, or range lead to get your desired hardness. A little mono really goes a very long way.

my ¢2
Armorer

[HamGunner]

Yep, looks like Monotype. It is harder and is usually molded into reusable single letters that will last for many, many typing sets. Linotype is normally pored into lines-of-print for each job and then remelted and poured again into lines of print on the next printing set.

I would certainly separate the single letter Monotype pieces from any of the Linotype and melt separately. Label the ingots with what you have, either with a metal stamp or some other way of fairly permanent marking for later identification. I tape two metal stamps together for my labeling. "WW" for clip on Wheel weights, "PB" for soft lead, "LT" for Linotype, "MT" for Monotype, etc. Great find for sure. I bought out a print shop a couple of years ago for 65 cents a lb. and thought I done okay. I got part of it in 29lb. ingots, a little Monotype, and the rest in poured Linotype. The Linotype looks to be somewhere around 19 BHN. Still plenty of tin in it for the price. Your Monotype will help stretch soft lead or salvaged range lead a long way.

Edit: If stamping with a metal stamp, use a small mallot or hammer and stamp them after they set but have not completely cooled for a bit easier stamp. After they cool off completely, they get quite hard.

[Hardcast416taylor]

That`s Mono. I recieved a gift of a full 5 gal. bucket of it when a small hospital print shop was closed. Fast forward 15 years, I still have about 1/2 of the pail left! I don`t use much of and am cheap on when I do use it.Robert

[cbrick]

So at 30 cents a pound it would be a DECENT investment. Doug

NO . . . it is not a decent investment.

That is an incredible, outstanding, once in a lifetime investment. Say you don't want it and I would be half tempted to drive from California to get it myself. Well, half tempted anyway.

The thin strips in the photos probably are lino, the blocks are mono. As mentioned, seperate them. Don't try to cast bullets with the mono, at 19% antimony they would be so brittle that it's possible to break a bullet in half by simply chambering a loaded round. It is a valuable resource for blending and it's a resource that you may never see again, the type alloys haven't been used in the print industry for many years and it's disappearing fast.

You haven't posted in a week so I assume that you bought it? Please say that it didn't go to a scrap yard??

Rick

[bowfin]

Armorer, did you friend ever recover after what we put him through here, boxing and shipping a couple of tons of linotype and monotype?

Thanks again!

[tred1956]

[smilie=w: YES I BOUGHT IT [smilie=w:

Should have 300 to 400 pounds in my possesion by middle of next week. He keeps finding more.


Told him I would take a ton if he had it.


Sould have some for sale by the following week

Safe shooting
Doug

[Jim_Fleming]

Doug, this is going to sound like heresy, but just remember that if you buy 2000 lbs you can probably resell 500 lbs and make back some of your initial investment.

I'd buy some from you if the reselling price was affordable. ;-)

Sent from my Droid

[fredj338]

Doug, this is going to sound like heresy, but just remember that if you buy 2000 lbs you can probably resell 500 lbs and make back some of your initial investment.

I'd buy some from you if the reselling price was affordable. ;-)

Sent from my Droid

Exactly, especially if getting it for 30c/#!!!! I would easily buy 60# in a flat rate box for $60 delivered.:drinks:

[Fritz D]

The thin strips in the photos probably are lino, the blocks are mono. As mentioned, seperate them

Linotypes were designed to set entire lines of characters on one "strip" of lead, anywhere from 1" up to 5" in length. The Monotype was designed to set each character on a individual "block" of lead. Foundry type is the same format as Monotype. Linotype and Monotype were meant for one time use (i.e., print the job, melt the used type into ingots, typeset next job, etc.). Foundry type was meant to be used over and over (i.e. print the job, sort all characters back into their type cases, typeset next job, etc.). In practice, many printers used their Monotype like Foundry type (i.e. used it over and over). There are 2 points to this post.
1. None of the pieces shown in those 2 pics is Linotype . . . all of it is either Foundry type or Monotype.
2. Unless you are getting brand new Monotype or Foundry type (it can still be obtained) it is hard to tell the difference between Foundry or Mono.

[cbrick]

Looking closer at the pics your probably right. I first thought the smaller "blocks" were strips but see the error of my ways now. Thanks for the correction.

Rick

[tred1956]

Thanks for all the input fellows. One of the main reasons I enjoy this forum so much, when ever there is a difference of opinion it is done with CLASS and taken in the same way. One more question. Is there a way to tell the difference in Foundry and Mono?

Thanks
Doug

[ColColt]

I worked in a print shop part time wile going to college and ran an old German Kluge press. I have never seen Linotype that looked any different than this although it does come in blocks with no type on it. I use to get this free and then I could also buy it locally from another print shop for 25 cents a pound...precious memories.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3849.jpg

This is 50/50 lead-LT. It makes a pretty good boolit.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3848.jpg

[madsenshooter]

"2. Unless you are getting brand new Monotype or Foundry type (it can still be obtained) it is hard to tell the difference between Foundry or Mono."

Monotype has a square nick on the side, with foundry type the nick is rounded. Even monotype can have a widely variable alloy. For instance those large letter would be what is known as display type, and could be upwards of BHN33. I think it'd be too much of a hassle for you to sort it all, I'm unemployed and have the time, so just send it to me. Check out type metal on wiki for more info.

Went back and looked at the OP's pic. The majority of what I see is foundry type. Very hard, very tough as it has copper in it too. 1.5-2.0%

[Fritz D]

Monotype has a square nick on the side, with foundry type the nick is rounded. Even monotype can have a widely variable alloy.

This subject (Mono vs. Foundry) seems to cause a lot of confusion . . . a few months back I tried to get a definitive answer on another site dedicated to the art of letterpress printing and hot metal typesetting (Briarpress). Here is a quote from one of the answers I received:

"With little or none of the alloy metals found in foundry type, monotype was cheaper and some printers bought it and used it for hand spiking from a type case. There is probably a lot of it out there in type cases. In addition to having (usually) a flat foot, it often had a square nick (but not always). I have some new type in the foundry wrapper that says foundry type. It has a square nick."

Based on the information I've been able to obtain, I still think it is a stretch for the average person to state with certainty whether a particular piece of type is Mono or Foundry (based on the way it looks).

P.S. This subject might make a good sticky.

[madsenshooter]

The foundry's old molds are probably long gone, easier for them to therefore make use of a monotype machine vs the way it was once done, thus the square nick. But what you say is true, as I said, monotype alone has a half dozen different formulations. The OP's best bet would probably be to smelt it all into one batch and put it in ingots for future use.

[bumpo628]

The OP's best bet would probably be to smelt it all into one batch and put it in ingots for future use.

I disagree, I think type metal is best left in it's original form. If you ever ended up selling some of it, then buyers want to see it in little blocks.

You could smelt a small amount of each size/shape and cast some boolits just for hardness testing purposes. I wonder if the different shapes and sizes are made of different material.

[cbrick]

I gotta agree with bumpo, I would leave it as is until ready to use it or sell it.

But that's just me.

Oh . . . and bumpo.

Rick