Future reloading/shooting ? - Storage ? Qty ? Cost ? Backache ?

[BigSlick]

I stopped by to check in on a long time shooting buddy I haven't seen in way too long this afternoon.

As usual, he was churning the 650 and had the tumblers running.

While we were shooting the breeze on the way to the range, the topic of the future of shooting... dems getting in office... Billary et al.. and the cost of shooting in the future, current cost spikes etc. all came up.

How much will you need to survive the impending onslaught of shortages, regulations, restrictions, cost hikes and demonizing of shooters ?

Is now the time to keep an extra box or two on hand ? How much powder ? bullets ? brass ? primers ? will you need to outlast the dark times (should they actually come to pass) ? Figure on 8 years worth since Hillary will probably get in for both terms. Then, what about the future ?

Interesting topic to ponder.

Buy for current needs and don't worry about the future ?

Buy an extra box or two of components and just buy at whatever price and conditions exist at the time you need more ?

Buy as much as possible now, because it ain't going to get any cheaper and get it while you can ?

Liquidate the retirement funds and buy components, because ammo is the currency of the future ?

I already have more than I will ever need in a lifetime and then some ?

I'm too old/tired/burned out to move all that stuff around. When I run out of components, I'll quit reloading/shooting and get a different hobby ?

What say you ?
________
Xxx movies free (http://www.****tube.com/)

[rigmarol]

I think group buys are going to be a regular thing.

I think I'm going to be shooting my BP guns a lot more in the future.

Anybody know how to make caps? I don't like flint...

Let's hope it doesn't get that bad.

[Buckshot]

.................I suppose you could take a good look at how much you shoot in a year, plus WHAT you shoot, etc & etc. Then take a look at what discretionary capitol you have currently, and over the next 2 years or so, if you can. With what funds you have on hand now, buy as much of the most important consumable(s) as you can. Naturally consumables are primers, powder and bullets.

Remember that pretty much anything you buy now you will be saving money on later as the years go by. In addition, components to reload make good trading stock. As I look at the stash of LR primers I have on hand and what I paid for them at the time, I'm saving myself a solid $20 for each sleeve of 5K I have at current prices.

Even if material prices don't continue to escalate, inflation is normally always with us. In a depression you might even be more hard pressed for components that you don't have on hand, and again they make good trading stock.

Dean Grennell mentioned once that he'd stock up on 22RF as during the Korean war and WW2 the stuff was unavailable. The little RF would be good to have. Stored in the back of a closet in the house, the even temps would probably allow the ammo to be viable almost forever. Of course you could rotate it too through normal useage.

..................Buckshot

[arkypete]

With cast bullets, a healthy supply of cases, primers and powder there's no reason that I can't shoot well into my dotage.
I see the firearms, and reloading gear and components much the same way others see gold coins, plus I can shoot dinner if need be.
Jim
PS
Might be a worth while thing to work on the formulas for cleaning solvents and rust preventers.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Certainly, stockpiling components is a prudent thing to do. I once went to an investment seminar at which the teacher made a statement indicating that the US has averaged 3% inflation every year snce 1776. I have laid in a somewhat larger supply of primers and powder, all I could afford, anticipating the recent price increases.

However, I am not going to stockpile components enough to last my expected lifetime just because there may be an anti-gun federal administration for the next four or eight years. Should the antis become more powerful in Washington during the next administration, their legislative excesses will NEVER be reversed. When the allegedly pro-gun bunch gets back in, the damage will be allowed to remain permanent. I have seen FDR, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton I come and go, but most of their anti-gun programs remain forever. If you remember, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and Bush I have come and gone, and Bush II's days are dwindling down, but we still have the 1934 Federal Firearms Act, GCA 1968, and the Brady Bill. The Second Amendment has been in a simmering pot for over seventy years. Gradualism has avoided frightening the frog for all of that time, and will continue until we are "done."

Yes, we are facing a threat on armed freedom, but we have much bigger problems. Among them are an increasingly ignorant and apathetic electorate, the large-scale destruction of our industrial base, a significant percentage of our population content with being "given" Washington's "bread and circuses," and the relentless eroding of our language and culture by the surrender of our borders to invading foreign hordes.

[mooman76]

Rigmarol

There is a cap making tool you can buy. I know Dixie Gun Works has it and I believe I seen one of the reload companies had it too but can't remember off hand. You make them with beer cans and the paper toy caps. The bad thing is it only works with BP not substitutes but there are so many substitutes now adays it might work with one or too of them if the powder is sensitive enough or if you primed with a pinch of BP first that might work. I believe the tool was called a Cap-O-Matic. I've always thought those toy plastic caps that look like BP #11 caps might work but never tried.
If we all panic and start stock piling components that will just drive the prices up even more.

[Forester]

I’m sure this comes across as alarmist to some, but I honestly believe that if Hillary-or most any of the current Dem. party- is elected we will be lucky to make it 8 years without events last seen here around 1861-1865.

Point being, a stockpile of ammo may be much more valuable at some point than the actual market value tied to it.

I'll save someone the trouble and make the obligatory "cue the black helicopters/tinfoil hat" joke now...

[Springfield]

I've always figured that if it gets so bad that you can't buy components then you have probably lost all of your places and rights to shoot also, so what are ya gonna do with all that ammo? Better to fight them at every turn with the NRA or with your vote or your dollar or whatever it takes. Doesn't mean that I don't take advantage of sales or stock up on some things. The prices only go up.

[lovedogs]

Valid point, Springfield. Another thing to consider with the anti's getting closer and closer to their goals. Consider this... right now you can't legally load a bullet for anyone else without a manufacturers license. Though many of us do it and get away with it someday they may find a way to clamp down on that practice. Right now it's a felony! Now think a step farther. What if they make it mandatory to be licensed to buy components of any kind? They can register, license, price, and tax us out of business. The things we need and can't make on our own can be made unavailable to us if the wrong people come into power.

The only real answers are to help the NRA, vote out the idiots, and force our government to make those who took an oath to uphold our Constitution do their jobs or throw them out. Of course, the majority of our citizenry haven't got the guts to do this. We've had it too soft for too long and aren't willing to do anything about it when our gov't is oppressing us. And that's exactly what they're doing. You and I can whine all we want but unless this country and it's citizenry gets off their butts and gets some guts we are not going to be free long. We're hardly really free now! Depressing thoughts, aren't they? I'll shut up now as I know I'm preaching to the choir.

[rigmarol]

Rigmarol

There is a cap making tool you can buy. I know Dixie Gun Works has it and I believe I seen one of the reload companies had it too but can't remember off hand. You make them with beer cans and the paper toy caps. The bad thing is it only works with BP not substitutes but there are so many substitutes now adays it might work with one or too of them if the powder is sensitive enough or if you primed with a pinch of BP first that might work. I believe the tool was called a Cap-O-Matic. I've always thought those toy plastic caps that look like BP #11 caps might work but never tried.
If we all panic and start stock piling components that will just drive the prices up even more.


Thanks, I'll keep my eye open for it. I must have just jumped past it in Dixie's catalogs.

[arkypete]

I’m sure this comes across as alarmist to some, but I honestly believe that if Hillary-or most any of the current Dem. party- is elected we will be lucky to make it 8 years without events last seen here around 1861-1865.

Point being, a stockpile of ammo may be much more valuable at some point than the actual market value tied to it.

I'll save someone the trouble and make the obligatory "cue the black helicopters/tinfoil hat" joke now...

Forester
I've read where the US is more divided, looking at the past few presidental elections, then it was in 1860. You may not be to far from the truth.
Jim

[Freightman]

I have lived through Roosevelt to the present, went from bieng able to buy a gun with your DL at Sears, Woolco, ect to the mess we have now. If they can find the "goons" to come and take your guns what are we to do one family at a time? I know a lot of you have a problem with "Unions" but isn't an association with common goals a union (NRA) united we will be a force to recon with individually we are nothing. Join the NRA, TSRA, JFPFA, what ever and hold the administration of these orgnations to the common goal to keep the second admendment. When the second admendment is gone how long before the first goes, or the forth, ect. Without the second all the others will be un-enforceable.

[felix]

Yep, Freightman, right on! ... felix

[mooman76]

rigmarol
I finnaly found the item. Tried Dixie but couldn't find it anymore. I did find it at Mid South Shooters though. It's called Tap-O-Cap #070-TC1000 for $19.41. If you get this get good qualitytoy caps. I know they are probubly hard to find now adays but picture this. I finally found some about 13 years ago and I was in Alaska so that might be part of my problum finding them but I'm sitting in my living room in winter watching TV and why not mak som caps while I'm at it. In Alaska in winter you look for things to keep you busy. I'm puching out the caps with a paper punch so they will fit into the metal cap and these are cheap caps so the little dot of powder isn't always a nice neat dot. Well I have a shoebox they are falling in and one of the caps ignight in my lap and start off a chain reaction. The only thing damaged lucklly was my pants and the couch cusion got a little scorched but was esily turned over. Of coarse the wife found out some time latter and my kids were more that happy to squeel on me. I chalked it up to lesson learned! I found som good caps after that.

[KCSO]

You know all those yellow forms you fill out... well don't be surprised if you get a visit. I'll bet on ammo restrictions a lead BAN and no possession of more than a specified amount of anything, including guns! By 2010 we, the gun community will be regulated to death. In England recently the finding of a single 22 bullet was NEWS. Look at what has been proposed and avoided in the last 6 years and couont on 80% of it getting passed in the next 6. If you had told my Grandfather that he would have to provide 2 forms of ID undergo a secuity check and fill out 2 pages federal paperwork to buy a gun he would have been ready for revolt. Now we lay back and enjoy it.

Guns will be sold in government approved big box stores only, the asssault ban will come back and we will see double the cost for ammo, probably with tracking tags on the bullets and in the powder. Hunting will continue it's decline and become a sport of KINGS again.

The only improvment in sight will be when the average man is so oppressed he revolts again. Look at what is happening around the world now and see whats coming. The governments answer to every trouble spot in the world is first, DISARM the populace. Iraq, Afganistan, Serbia, The African nations, First we disarm then we... help them?

[Char-Gar]

I have been reading through the year 1947 issues of The American Rifleman. In those pages is much angst, concern and breast beating over the future of shooting in America. The main concerns seems to be the politicians who are seen as a threat to the sport.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

I have been involved in organized shooting since about 1954 and there has been a constand drumbeat of concern over the future of shooting due to the politicians

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I was once involved in raiseing large amounts of money for a cause. This involved writing a number of articles about the inpending doom, if the supporters did not send in money so we could fight the good fight for the cause.

I began to notice that more and more we were spinning a few facts into a web of conspiracy that when laid down beside the reality, just din't represent the true situation.

When I called this to the attention to the attention of the head honcho he told me.. "yes, Charles, that is true, but we just can't let the troops become complacent and we have a payroll to make until a real crisis comes along. I quite a week later.

I really don't know just how big a threat this current crop of politicians are to our sport. I don't intend to say they don't need a close watch. No..I am not saying tht at all.

But, I have not been asleep the past 64 years, and I have learned a few things that bear remembering.

"You can observe allot just by watching"... Yogi Berra

*
/
3.

[felix]

Yogi, also said (or implied) "it ain't over 'till it's over". ....

[Nueces]

Well said, Chargar

I agree that alarmism will come to be counterproductive when enough folks notice the dissonance 'tween the reality and the shouting. But, it does tend to work short-term. I guess we're lucky if it goes on to fail long-term; otherwise, we could find ourselves being ruled by just another group of liars, who must defend against the truth in order to stay in power. Nazis, for example.

Yogi could have said "Things would be a lot simpler if they weren't so complicated." :mrgreen:

Mark

[rhead]

Prices are still climbing. The cheapest primers I saw at yesterday's gun show in Little Rock was 24.99 per K. An 8 pounder of 3031 was $130.00, and I couldn't find any 4198 in the entire building. I did pick up 100 pieces of new starline 45 70 brass for $39 and 200 rounds of once fired hornet for $18, That seems to be about the same as usual. One slicked up SP101 snubby for $350.
I am not in what I would call a panic buying mode but I am increasing my inventory. When I use up a brick of primers I buy 2, When I use up 4 pounds of powder I buy 8. Most of the time when I go by Wal Mart I will pick up a tin of 22 cal pellets. A coffee can full of those will keep a lot of pest out of the garden.

[rigmarol]

rigmarol
I finnaly found the item. Tried Dixie but couldn't find it anymore. I did find it at Mid South Shooters though. It's called Tap-O-Cap #070-TC1000 for $19.41. If you get this get good qualitytoy caps. I know they are probubly hard to find now adays but picture this. I finally found some about 13 years ago and I was in Alaska so that might be part of my problum finding them but I'm sitting in my living room in winter watching TV and why not mak som caps while I'm at it. In Alaska in winter you look for things to keep you busy. I'm puching out the caps with a paper punch so they will fit into the metal cap and these are cheap caps so the little dot of powder isn't always a nice neat dot. Well I have a shoebox they are falling in and one of the caps ignight in my lap and start off a chain reaction. The only thing damaged lucklly was my pants and the couch cusion got a little scorched but was esily turned over. Of coarse the wife found out some time latter and my kids were more that happy to squeel on me. I chalked it up to lesson learned! I found som good caps after that.

Nice story! Sounds like something I'd end up doing. I'm glad you weren't hurt. I haven't looked for cap-gun caps since my kids were small. not even sure they are "polictcally correct" any more. Thanks again.

[mingol]

Back during the "Cold War" the Russian hunters out in Siberia and suchlike places had to figure out how to reload 22LR ammo. They cut the tips off scratch-anywhere matches (carefully!!) and made a slurry by mixing with water, then tamped the wet slurry into the used 22 LR case, getting some/enough into the rim. The slurry was then dried in a non-hot oven. Then the powder and then the bullet. These worked fairly well.
I would expect that caps for muzzle loaders could easily be made using the same technique. I have a couple big boxes of scratch-anywhere matches in long-term storage. That slurry is good for several/many such usages.
mingol

[rhead]

Chlorate based priming compound isn't that hard to make. That is what is in the roll caps anyway. It is basicly black powder with potassium chlorate replacing the potassium nitrate, add a trace of finely ground glass. Keep it damp while you are working with it.

[waksupi]

I've got some potassium chlorate stashed away, should I ever need it for primers.
As far as the Forester Tap-o-can, for making percussion caps. It is recommended that you use Canadian manufacture caps, as they are apparently hotter than what is available in the states.
Punching the caps from beer cans is fairly simple, and I have strong enough hands I can do it by hand. I'm sure you could figure out how to use a reloading press, or just tap them with a plastic hammer, or such.
When charging the caps, you are supposed to use a match stick, to put the caps in the metal cup. I believe three are recommended.
When you are seating them in the cup, it is not unusual for them to ignite, giving you a bit of a scare, so definitely use safety glasses if using one.
The caps I used were American, and they are pretty weak, not giving consistant charge ignition every time. Maybe the Canuck ones would work better. I'll look for some next time I go north.
Another caveat, these being so sensitive to pressure, it is certainly possible that they would go off, when being seated uppon the nipple. So, another good point for safety glasses, and KEEPING THE RIFLE POINTED DOWNRANGE WHEN CAPPING!

[PatMarlin]

We are millions and millions strong. We are, and come from the generations that built and sustain this country. Let's not forget that, and lets not let these slim numbers of idiotic groups of people make it seem they are winning, and in the majority. THEY ARE NOT!

[longbow]

I think you guys have a long way to go in the States before you get restrictions like we have in Canada now.

It has gotten so bad that many stores like Walmart don't even carry guns - any guns at all. Ammunition is all locked up and you need picture ID to buy it and not just a drivers license you need a federal firearms permit.

Several years ago legislation was enacted requiring everyone who owned a firemarm to get a Firearms Possession License and if you wanted to buy or sell firearms (personally not a business) you had to have a Firearms Aquisition and Possession License. To get the license you have to take a course - one for longarms (unrestricted) and one for handguns (restricted).

Handguns can only be shot at a federally licensed range. They cannot be carried in the bush or used for hunting. This has been in effect for about 75 years.

Firearms must be locked up in a vault, closet or locked room. Ammunition has to be locked up separately. Essentially guns in the home cannot be used for self defense.

Blackpowder is a class A explosive so requires special permits to ship and in my experience if you don't live in a large city you can't buy black powder.

There are limits on powder quantities for storage and loaded rounds. I am not sure what they are but 1000 rounds rings a bell.

Since I live in a small area of only about 30,000 to 40,000 people (several small towns in the area) there are no, repeat, no gun stores within 3 hours of here. I normally drive to Washington State to buy reloading components because otherwise I have to have everything shipped and pay HAZMAT fees etc. I can be in Washington in about 1 hour so it is easiest.

There was recently a proposal to disallow reloading within 50 feet of the nearest inhabited structure which would effectively eliminate anyone living in a city or subdivision from reloading. I don't know what happened to it but I wrote and pointed out that propane and gasoline, etc. are more flamable and dangerous than smokeless powder. Haven't seen any more development there and don't want to.

You guys have a long way to go before you catch up to us and you will want to keep it that way!

Good luck and keep fighting.

Longbow

[rhead]

Someone mentioned the little plastic cupped caps for toy pistols. Last night I invested $.96 at wal mart in a packageof 208 LEGENDS OF THE WILD WEST SUPERMATIC STRIP CAPS from Imperial toy co. I used up one strip of 12 a few iniutes ago. All 12 fit on a # 11 nipple, they were a little tight but went on with finger pressure. All 12 fired on the first strike with enough force to blow a hole in apiece of tissue held in front of the muzzel. They sounded about like a #11 cap and smelled like a chlorate based primer. The plastic cup was too tough to rupture on discharge but could be easily pried off with a thumbnail. In a loaded rifle they may work better.

[KCSO]

I don't try to be alarmist,but as a student of History I see where we were and where we are going. In 1930 My dad studied reading from a book caled "Rolling Wheels" it told the story of a 12 year old pioneer boy who carried his gun to school to hunt game for his family. In 1950 I carried a pocket knife to school to ply mumble pegs at recess. IN 1930 when you were released from Jail you got ALL your civil rights back. By 1950 you started losing this and now you can lose your rights for a misdemeanor assault accusation. In 1934 the Firearms Act was going to eliminate crime. In 1968 the same thing and now tagging bullets and powder will do the trick. This year Kalifornia tried to ban ammunition in some cities. Lead is treated as toxic waste and even our own fraternity is afraid of lead piosening and most folks i talk to about castin say, "isn't that awfully dangerous".
The worst thing is that the prevailing attitude in the schools has lost us our base of young shooters and Federal Paperwork and scare tactics has driven the small dealers out of business. We have double the population of 1955 and 1/4 of the gun dealers. In 1950 Trap shooting was a glamour sport and the stars were in the news with their guns. Now the local papers won't even post shooting events. Here in Nebraska the heart of the country and traditional shooting and hunting country we have less than 100 members in the NMLRA. Our NRA membership is pathetic for the number of shooters. The vast majority of folks don't car and we the hunters and shooters are like the buffalo hunters in the 1880's. I don't like it, but I don't expect that after I am gone my grandkids will ever be shooters or hunters. The County where I live has lost 50,000 acres to leased hunting in the last 10 years and it is common to have to pay up to $100 a day to bird hunt. The town kids can't afford to hunt or can't find a place and as they drop out we lose our support base.

[rhead]

More on the plastic caps. It took 4 trys to fire a charge of fff in my TC Hawkin 50. I got 8 failures to fire using pyrodex. The .002 grain charge would require some type of supercharging to be effective.
KCSO is it an arlarmist if the sky is falling. I do not think it is too late to turn the tide and will keep trying but I will also make plans to minimize the effect on myself and my family.

And the king said "Holy C**p a talking chicken"!!!!!

[Forester]

I don't try to be alarmist,but as a student of History I see where we were and where we are going. In 1930 My dad studied reading from a book caled "Rolling Wheels" it told the story of a 12 year old pioneer boy who carried his gun to school to hunt game for his family. In 1950 I carried a pocket knife to school to ply mumble pegs at recess. IN 1930 when you were released from Jail you got ALL your civil rights back. By 1950 you started losing this and now you can lose your rights for a misdemeanor assault accusation. In 1934 the Firearms Act was going to eliminate crime. In 1968 the same thing and now tagging bullets and powder will do the trick. This year Kalifornia tried to ban ammunition in some cities. Lead is treated as toxic waste and even our own fraternity is afraid of lead piosening and most folks i talk to about castin say, "isn't that awfully dangerous".
The worst thing is that the prevailing attitude in the schools has lost us our base of young shooters and Federal Paperwork and scare tactics has driven the small dealers out of business. We have double the population of 1955 and 1/4 of the gun dealers. In 1950 Trap shooting was a glamour sport and the stars were in the news with their guns. Now the local papers won't even post shooting events. Here in Nebraska the heart of the country and traditional shooting and hunting country we have less than 100 members in the NMLRA. Our NRA membership is pathetic for the number of shooters. The vast majority of folks don't car and we the hunters and shooters are like the buffalo hunters in the 1880's. I don't like it, but I don't expect that after I am gone my grandkids will ever be shooters or hunters. The County where I live has lost 50,000 acres to leased hunting in the last 10 years and it is common to have to pay up to $100 a day to bird hunt. The town kids can't afford to hunt or can't find a place and as they drop out we lose our support base.

KCSO, good points all. My question then is what is the logical conclusion to this slow loss of our freedom. It is either a socialist state populated entirely by Sheep too scared to stand up for themselves...or something else? What is it going to take for enough people to say "thats it, time to right this ship"

[PatMarlin]

America will get fed up sooner or later and snap bout this crap'. Heads will roll.

We've got some fierce genes in our blood lines that lay dormant, til something triggers them, then better get the heel out of the way.

I don't think even the most savy commie progressive lib wants to wake that sleeping giant.. :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

Here's an articel on using the tap-o-cap:


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/9

I bought the tap-0-cap couple years ago but haven't tried it yet.


If someone here know's how to make primers I would like to learn how... :drinks:

[felix]

There is no sleeping giant when his manufacturing capability has been disabled. ... felix

[PatMarlin]

Yes you may be right in one aspect, but I beg to differ on another Sir Felix.

Bring the fight to my neighborhood and watch what happens.. :mrgreen:

[45nut]

to see the actual power on earth view "the money masters" part 1 & 2 on google video.

top two video's on this link....

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money%20masters&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wv

[Bret4207]

Pat- I think the sleeping giant has been castrated. 9/11 should have been the wake up call. Everyone was back to sleep 3 months later. I think a self-centered, apathetic population lacks the will to rise up and do anything at all. As long as there's enough entertainment to keep the populance distracted ( like the Romans and their Circus) people ignore the issues. Those who don't, be they left or right wingers, are labeled extremists and loose credibility.

Maybe after we abandon Iraq and the terrs follow us home and kill a few hundred thousand of us we'll wake up. Until the Super Bowl/NASCAR/computer game/porn/movie/escapism ghost rises up again that is........

[PatMarlin]

Yeah-

I agree bout' 911. Problem is it was only in NY. It was like watching a movie on TV (NOT FOR ME).

Folks need to get really scared in there own back yard. If those terrorist blew up something simultaniously across the US, or do it like they do in the mid east, then the giant will wake up, and get his balls back.. :roll: