.40 cal bullets

[marksuttonjr]

I want to mold some .40 cal bullets to shoout using sabots in my muzzle loaders. Good BC will be a must, because I will be using them for long range shooting. I would prefer a BC of .3 or better with around a 250 grain bullet. Any suggestions on a factory built mold? Or will I have to go custom built?

[marksuttonjr]

Any suggestions at all????????????????????????????????????????
So far 32 views and no responces. I only joined to ask this specific question. I figured that this was the place to ask, but maybe I was incorrect.

[rmb721]

I looked in Midsouth's catalog. The only mould that is close to what you are looking for is the Lyman 403169, 240 grain FN. At one time Lyman made a #403173, 250 FN. They both take the same top punch (#43). I don't have any idea of what the BC would be for either of these bullets. I hope this helps.

[9.3X62AL]

"40 caliber" most often these days refers to the 40 S&W pistol cartridge, less often to late 19th/early 20th century 40 caliber rifle calibers. I suspect your mold or design would fall into the latter category, and these usually run .408"-.414" in diameter.

RCBS may have a limited production mold that suits your needs. More likely--and a little less expensive--would be something from NEI or Mountain Molds. If you know the diameter of the slug you'll need for the sabot, I'm sure both makers could tailor a cavity to your specs.

www.neihandtools.com

www.mountainmolds.com

Hope this helps.

[BigSlick]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the castboolits site ;)

Give it a day or two, there are some extremely helpful, knowledgeable and experienced people here, patient too ;)

One option to consider may be going the custom route with a bullet designed specifically to your needs.

One source of affordable customs is Lee Precision. You can design just about any bullet, and setup costs are reasonable for small qty custom molds.

Here's a link to their custom mold info http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1171003432.1984=/html/catalog/custom.html#CUSTOMMOLDS

Hope this helps ;)

'Slick
________
EXTREME Q VAPORIZER BEST TEMPERATURE (http://www.vaporshop.com)

[marksuttonjr]

Thanks for the help. For the sabots I will be using I think that I need a bullet around .406, but I'll have to check again.

The ML that I will be shooting these bullets out of is a custom built smokeless powder .45 cal. 1:26 twist. I'm wanting to make this into a 400+ yard ML, so the higher the BC the better I was just throwing .3 out because it seems to be better than most jacketed bullets I have found.

[Tom Myers]

Hi Mark,

You may need to have a custom mold made to meet al your criteria. Just for fun, I played with the Bullet Design software and what you see is the best that I could come up with that meets your specifications and still look like it might shoot.

Remember that the estimated BC is just that, a comparative estimation and would need to be verified by actual shooting tests, but the estimated values are generally fairly close.

If you do decide to have a custom mold made, you are welcome to use the sketch if it works for you. Or if you would like some changes made to the spec sheet it is easy to do.

Please do not consider this design as the only thing that would work. There are many that might have better Ideas and designs that would be better suited to your purposes.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark%20Sutton_40-250-Sabot_250_gr.gif

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark%20Sutton_40-250-Sabot_250_gr_Sketch.gif

[45 2.1]

Hmmmm. Less than a caliber of bearing and more than a caliber of unsupported nose that would be loaded in a semi pliable sabot. Looks like something that Montana Charlie tried in the blackpowder forum.

[Tom Myers]

Yep, the bearing length really is too short but increasing the bearing length decreases the nose length, which in turn dramatically decreases the BC. Even the use of a Secant Ogive to give the Form Factor a longer ogive radius doesn't work as the longer the secant ogive is, the slimmer the nose gets and as a result the weight goes down which in turn causes a proportionate decrease in the BC. If the BC restriction were to be relaxed, then design dimensions more in keeping with proper stability concerns could be achieved.


Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

[45 2.1]

None of that helps in the least if it isn't ACCURATE.

[marksuttonjr]

I like the design that Tom Myers threw out. In fact it is very close to what I was considering for a custom design if I had to havea custom mold built. I just don't have the software to do the design phase. I want to keep it as simple as possible. The sabots that I have been using with jacketed bullets are for .400-.406 bullets, and I would like to stick with them. I can easily push a 300 grain bullet 2,200 fps, but I do not know about the 250 grain bullets that I think I would prefer. If I could get the BC higher, and ger the velocity that I know taht I can from a 300 that specific design would be streatched a good deal, and SHOULD fly well. I am looking for MOA at 400 yards, but IF I can modd my own bullets to save some $ I would settle 2-2.5 MOA. A person should easily be able to kill deer at 400 with a 2.5 MOA load.

The reason that I don't just go to a rifle is that they are not legal here in Indiana. I could get a 7-.08 handgun barrel for my TC contender, and get the 400 that I want, but I kinda prefer the big bore of the 14" .44 mag barrel. Makes me feal like I am shooting something when it goes off with my super HOT reloads. Yes my range is limited to under 250, but I like it a lot for those closer range shots.

[marksuttonjr]

Hmmmm. Less than a caliber of bearing and more than a caliber of unsupported nose that would be loaded in a semi pliable sabot. Looks like something that Montana Charlie tried in the blackpowder forum.

I thaught about asking in the black powder foum, but I will be using smokeless powder in a ML specificaly built for smokeless. Pressures, and velocities will bea bit higher. After some thought I honestly figured that I would catch a lot of bashing if I posted tis there. Most people are ignorant about smokeless powder muzzle loaders since it has been put into our heads that it's not safe. I admit that the 1st time I squeezed the trigger on a smokeless ML that I was nervous, but after several thousand shots sent down range I now say that it is the only way to go.

[waksupi]

Tom drew you up a nice looking bullet, but it is not a hunting design. And I have to ask, can you reliably put a bullet into the kill zone on a deer at 400 yards? I've shot 1000 yard competition for over 20 years, and won't take a shot that far on game.

[mooman76]

Also I have heard that sabots don't shoot as well as regular bullets but are good enough for 100 yards or a little better. I don't think you will have the accuracy you need out to 400 yards or even close to that but I could be wrong!

[Lloyd Smale]

I wouldnt want to count on a round nosed cast bullet to kill well at those ranges out of any gun. Id be looking for something like a heavy swc with a good metplat. Frank at mount baldy casts a good one. A swc if designed right will shoot along side of a round nose at 400 yards and do a hell of a lot better job of killing something. Now if your just looking for accuracy for competion thats another thing and one i have no experiece with. What you might want to play with is one of those round nosed molds converted to Hollow point and cast real soft.

[marksuttonjr]

I know that I can consistantly put the bullet in the kill zone of a deer at 400 yards with any of my smokeless powder muzzle loaders. Especialy hunting out of the "tree house" that I will be building this summer on the main field that I hunt. I've already taken many deer in the 300 yard range with the 2, .50 cal smokeless ML's I own. That was just using trees and whatever else I could find to brace against. When this "tree house" is built I will have much better rests to use.
This .45 was custom built because I wanted to shoot smaller lighter bullets with a better BC to increase my range. I would not be against a hollow point bullet design, however that will make it a bit more dificult to get the BC up there and have the trajectory that I desire.

[Tom Myers]

Mark, If your requirements will allow a bullet weight of 300 grains then the design paramaters allow a much more practical design for hunting. Either the hollowpoint or flat nose in 300 grains will allow a comparative BC estimate of above 0.300.

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark_Sutton_40-300-HP-Sabot_300_gr.gifhttp://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark_Sutton_40-300-Sabot_300_gr.gif


http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark_Sutton_40-300-HP-Sabot_300_gr_Sketch.gif

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Mark_Sutton_40-300-Sabot_300_gr_Sketch.gif

[Red River Rick]

Mark:

Tom's design is very close to a bullet that I have. These bullets are swaged (core's where cast) and are .400 dia and weigh 300 grs. HP RN design with a semi-boat-tail base. They are intended to be used with a sabot and shoot very well at ranges up to 200 yards. I have not tried them at distances beyond this.

Perhaps Tom can plug these numbers into his program and see what the end result comes out as. Calculated volume is 0.118 cu. in., my calculations say the bullet should weight approx 307 grrains, the actual weight of the bullets I have is 300 gr.

I've attached a picture of a sample .40 Cal RNHP/ 240 gr (right ) and a .45 Cal SWCHP/ 250 gr (left). I do have some .40 Cal, 300 grainers as well, same design.
Rather than go thru all the trouble of having a mold made, I do have some samples that you could try if your interested.

As far as sabotted rounds not being very accurate, take a look at the picture.
This group was fired from my own custom .50 Cal inline, 3 x 9 Simmons scope, off the bench. Wiping between each shot. Group measument is less than 1".

Distance: 150 yards
Charge: 100 grs FFG Goex
Primer: Win 209
Sabot: MMP 50/45 (black) base cup filled with SPG
Bullet: 250 gr SWC-HP semi-boat-tail base (swaged)
Rnds: 5

RRR

[Tom Myers]

Rick,

Mighty fine shootin'.

I plugged in your bullet dimensions and the software calculated the volume at 0.10435 cu in. Using pure lead, that calculates to 299.5 grains;

Tom
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Red_River_Rick_Swage_40-300-HP-SWG_300_gr_Data.gif

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Red_River_Rick_Swage_40-300-HP-SWG_300_gr.gif

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Red_River_Rick_Swage_40-300-HP-SWG_300_gr_Sketch.gif

[Red River Rick]

Tom:

Thanks for the calculations, I'm not that far off, considering. I'm very intersted in the software you are using. Is this your own or did you buy the program?


Mark:

If your wanting to try this bullet and see how it performs, I have samples with sabots that I'd be willing to pass on.

PM me if you are interested.

RRR

[Tom Myers]

Rick,

The software is my on-going creation. When I consider it user-friendly enough, I will most likely offer it for distribution. You can periodically check the progress status at :

Precision Cast Bullet Evaluation and Design (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/draw/draw.htm)

Tom Myers
Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.uslink.net/%7Etom1/)

[marksuttonjr]

I still like the original round nose design, but will agree that the flat nose or hollow point would be better to hunt with. I like the flat nose design too. The bullet that I have been making 300 yard shots with out of my .50's a 175 grain DEVEL. They are an aluminum/tin alloy. Here is some info about them. http://www.levedcartridgeltd.com/

I know that it's probably not possible to design, but after playing with a balistics calculater I think that a 350 grain in the .4 BC range is what I actualy need for the balistics that I want. I guess that I should have played with the calculator before I ever posted. If I could push a bullet like that 2300 fps it would be around 36" low at 400. The bad thing is that at the range I can hit the 2 foot diameter target at 600 yards every time using 240 grain XTP mag out of my .50's after adjusting the scope to what an ex marine sniper told me to adjust to. Their BC is only around .2

[Inveterate Tinkerer]

Mark:

Tom's design is very close to a bullet that I have. These bullets are swaged (core's where cast) and are .400 dia and weigh 300 grs. HP RN design with a semi-boat-tail base. They are intended to be used with a sabot and shoot very well at ranges up to 200 yards. I have not tried them at distances beyond this.
....
my calculations say the bullet should weight approx 307 grrains, the actual weight of the bullets I have is 300 gr.

I've attached a picture of a sample .40 Cal RNHP/ 240 gr (right ) and a .45 Cal SWCHP/ 250 gr (left). I do have some .40 Cal, 300 grainers as well, same design.
... I do have some samples that you could try if your interested.

As far as sabotted rounds not being very accurate, take a look at the picture.
RRR

Hello all.

I am bumping this very old thread in hopes of getting some info on the bullet discussed the quote above.

I found this site via a google search on 40 caliber sabot moulds. So basically this is the thread that prompted me to join castboolets.

RRR, i'd be curious if you still have the mold, to extent the swaging resizes the moulded bullet, performance on game... your general thoughts for use as a 50-250 yard projectile at moderate velocity hunting WTD.

Anyone else who has experience with same or similar, I'd be interested to hear as well.

Thanks in advance, and (as you already know) this is a GREAT site.

Greg

[Inveterate Tinkerer]

...
I plugged in your bullet dimensions and the software calculated the volume at 0.10435 cu in. Using pure lead, that calculates to 299.5 grains;

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Red_River_Rick_Swage_40-300-HP-SWG_300_gr.gif

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/forum_images/Red_River_Rick_Swage_40-300-HP-SWG_300_gr_Sketch.gif

Bump on info re this bullet, twist used, sabot used, performance, accuracy, etc?