Soft nose moulds...

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

It is generally agreed here, that the perfect in cast boolet in terms of hunting applications would have the following criteria:

1. be cast of a fairly hard alloy, to withstand the increased pressure of high velocity. And high velocity impacts or those on bone hits; without fragmenting.

2. be made of a fairly soft alloy nose to mushroom properly (ie, doubling the as cast diameter) in the game.

These two conflicting demands were solved by going to the j-boolets. Hard skin to allow for high velocity, pure lead core to mushroom.

There have been attempts to deal with this, but nothing truly satisfactory to date.
Swede has provided us with the best of the classic designs, and some very fine new entries. This is especially true in 30 caliber.

I have this thought, for a satisfactory low-cost solution. Have NOE make three or four of their most popular designs with just the front 25% of the boolet in another mould. Imagine 311284 with just the front 1/4" of it in a mould. Cast them out of pure lead, and insert that nose cone into the regular mould just before casting. I see some issues with alignment, and perhaps even with nose slump.

Anyone else see the potential with this?

Rich

[longbow]

Ideal/Lyman used to make moulds as you describe (scroll through and you will find three or four examples in different calibers):

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/1929_Ideal_Catalog.pdf

so yes it can be done and has been done but it is likely easier and cheaper to use Bruceb's casting method:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1734&highlight=bruceb+softnose

I cast 500 gr. soft nose boolits like this about 30 years ago using the Lyman 457125 mould and two dippers. In the large volume mould I had no trouble but I have tried using my Lyman 314299 with quite poor success. Even well heated (obviously not quite enough) I got a poor joint between wheelweights and soft lead.

If you want to pre-cast soft lead noses all you need to do is use a small "ladle" made out of an old cartridge or tubing or about anything of correct volume and cast the noses. When you want the soft nose just drop the soft lead noses into the HOT mould (where they should be a perfect fit), heat until they melt then pour wheelweights in on top. This might help eliminate a "skin" of dross between metals for better joint.

Alternately paper patching a relatively soft alloy works well too.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Longbow

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

this would be a lot easier. Just cast the noses and set them aside to cool. Next day bring the big mould up to temp, then put the soft nose in the cavity and pour. I had two of the Lyman two-piece moulds back forty years ago for pistol boolets.

There has to be a way, besides soft(er) alloy and gas checks...

Rich

[6.5 mike]

I have one of the bator moulds with a small g/c shank & big nose I've been thinking about using for the nose part on two piece pours. It weighs 53 grs & would give a 25% nose on a 200 gr 30 cal boolit or 33% on my rcbs 145 7 m/m( drops at 155 gr). Bruce talks about using split shot but I know alot of that has zinc now. Using known soft lead & 50/50 either wq'ed or ac'ed should work.
It would make it easier to figure the percentages for other boolits knowing what your front amount is. Have not tried it yet but plan to this winter. :popcorn:
Our deer are not real big so figure anything that will help a boolit expand is a help.
I'm going to start with a lee 200 gr, NOE 311284, & the 7 m/m rcbs. I think it would make a good bambi thumper for my 7 m/m tcu bbl ( 14").

[Ramslammer]

G'Day
Cast Bullet Engineering here in Aus does a composite bullet and from memory it has two nose profiles.
Juddy

[no34570]

G'Day
Cast Bullet Engineering here in Aus does a composite bullet and from memory it has two nose profiles.
Juddy

Juddy is correct
<----Just look at my avatar,it is the 45cal (45/70)softnose boolit,this one weighs 430gr,base is 220,nose is 210Soft nose, soft lead,then the other nose for it weighs in at 135 Keith Nose for a weight of 355gr,
They rock!:D

[cbrick]

Rich, your idea could well work but I think that both molds, the nose mold and the main mold would need to need to be made at the same time for a proper fit. As good as Al is to make a mold last year and then make a nose mold this year that would fit last years mold correctly would be quite the feat. Possible I suppose but . . . .

Rick

[ElDorado]

For whomever might still be interested, here is a photo that I found on ebay of one of the Lyman moulds - 452626. The large box shows the numbers for two other calibers. There were two of these moulds up for auction at the same time. One never met the reserve price, the other went for over $230.

Jeff

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb364/ElDoradoJeff/ForumPics/Lyman_452626.jpg

[bearcove]

Why don't you preheat your mold, use a dipper that will fill nose as far as you want with soft alloy, pour some noses in your mold then put them back when you pour bases. Instead of a seperate nose mold.

[Suo Gan]

I would be highly interested in a composite.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Bearcove,

because this one would be by NOE...

Imagine the hassle with having to have two pots of alloy going at one time, and all the fun of trying to pour a pre-set nose and then pour the body before the nose hardened. Separation at impact instead of controlled expansion.

Pour the pure lead (Bhn 8-9) noses on one day, and composite bases later. 96/3/1 L/T/A. Epoxy the two together.

Rich

[longbow]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=53157&highlight=softnose

[hunter64]

I did the same as Longbow and BruceB basically said for the deer hunt and it works great. I used the hollow point 44/444 marlin bullet and because it is a crammer design hollow point it works great.

I take a pure lead 44 round ball and melt it in a small ladle and pour it into the nose of the preheated mold. I let it cool for 15 seconds and then I pour the Lyman #2 lead right in the mold on top of the pure lead with the bottom pour pot. I then let this sit until the sprue hardens (10 seconds max). I then position the mold so it is horizontal and put it in the bottom pour pot and keep it there until the sprue melts again and then slowly remove it from the pot and place it on a damp cloth to cool off. Sounds like a lot of work but honestly how many special bullets do you need to go hunting with, 1 box of 20 worth is plenty unless you need some more "range time" lol.

The deer was 85 yards and angling away from me at a walking pace. I aimed for just behind the last rib and since I was in a stand it was automatically downward towards the vitals. I touched off the shot with the .444 marlin and it hit him in the second to last rib, pushed down and completely disintegrated the heart. I found the bullet on the inside of front right leg and it had the front section mushroomed beautifully and measured .748" with the back part intact as it should be. The deer kicked once and hit the ground and didn't flinch after that. The shock inside the chest cavity was huge and darn near half gutted him as it was.

[shooter93]

Should be doable, Veral makes nose molds and at one time made a dual casting pot. A small section for the soft lead and a section for the harder lead I believe. It enede up to cost prohibitive but a neat idea.

[Ron.D]

If there's ever a group buy for a soft nose mold I'd be interested if it was in a caliber I was interested in. I have a soft nose mold from Dan at Mountain Molds. I've yet to shoot game with it, but can say I'm looking forward to it. I've fired it into water jugs backed by wet sawdust at what would approximate terminal velocity and it mushroomed beautifully. I'm disappointed that Dan doesn't make this style anymore. I cast several nose portions for my .358 they weigh about 90 grs. The finished product weighs in at 234 Grs. lubed and checked. When I'm ready to start the final casting, I set a few around the rim of my pot to keep at least warm. I cast severalboolits to warm up mold, then place a nose portion in the mold, press in place with a small dowel, then fill with rather hot alloy. There's no visible seam, but you can barely see the colour variation between the alloys. The nose is 30-1 and the back is at least Lyman #2. The portions can't be pulled apart, no matter how much I deform the front portion in my effort. I don't find it that much work and really like the finished product. They're accurate and I can't wait to try them on game. Ron.D

[emailed]

why couldnt a round nose bullet mold be made that you drop a pure lead round ball of a set size like 00 buck in the nose and cast the back it would save casting 2 parts.