The pin on "pinned and recessed" S&Ws

[subsonic]

Wonder if "pinned" S&Ws have less thread choke than non-pinned guns?

[462]

Subsonic,
As a good friend says, whenever I come up with that type of question, "You have entirely too much time on your hands".

An outstanding question. Let the answers begin.

[subsonic]

Well, I own 2. But I haven't slugged them. Need some slugs.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Out of the Smiths I own, all pinned, no constrictions. Beautiful barrels.

[MtGun44]

Pin is for decoration. There is a big area cut where it goes through, not the way I would
have expected - a drilled hole which would hold the barrel in place tight. You can turn
them a good bit before the pin does anything. So - they are using friction to hold the
barrel in place, although the pin will keep it from falling out - it does not actually keep it
from turning say 10 degrees or so.

Bill

[Multigunner]

I once read a detailed report on the test firing of original mid to late 19th century military sidearms, with a fairly large number of these old handguns involved in the tests. All examples were in very good to excellent condition with ammunition chosen for being a good duplicate of ammunition available when these were in service. Some ammo was well preserved original ammo.
The best of the ammo used was a full unopened box of .38 long milspec ammo sacrified for the test by a cartridge collector. This ammo was used for testing U S .38 long military revolvers. There were no misfires and the velocity was very consistent.
The most accurate revolver tested was a Colt Navy revolver converted to cartridge breech loading configuration. These were apparently still in use when more modern designs were available.
They figured the long barrel and extra long sight radius were the main factors, but I wonder if the old style barrel attachment might have also contributed by elimination of any thread constriction of the barrel breech.

[kshock]

I think I remember reading something awhile back that suggested the pin was used to keep the barrels from backing out on heavy recoiling guns. Maybe at the smith and wesson forum. Smith changed the way they installed barrel's which made the pin superfluous. I think maybe it had something to do with those new fangled high velocity rounds. But remember, I too suffer from CRS so I would not swear to this and I will have to see if I can find that info again or if I just got confused.

[Char-Gar]

To start off, I am not a believer in the great thread constriction bug-a-boo, but that is another topic.

The pin the barrel was to keep it from turning. In a cost saving effort Smith went to barrels with a "crush fit", to keep them from turning easy and did away with the pin. So when one says the words "crush fit" inside his head, that makes him think more thread construction, as it that matters much.

Common thinking is that any change in gun design is bad and older is always better. Well, that just isn't true, sometimes older is better and sometimes newer is better.

I own a couple dozen Smith DA sixguns of all vintages. I have owned scores more. Some pinned and recessed sixguns are great, other are not so great. There has been a wide swing in Smith and Wesson quality over the life of the company. To wide to generalize on design features. When they were made is far more important than how they were made.

The two best shooting Smith and Wessons I own both have crush fit barrels.

[MtGun44]

Everbody thinks the pin hold the barrel in place. Take a few out and you will find that
there is a groove cut across about 3-4 threads at the top of the barrel threads. The
barrel will turn at least 10 deg before it hits the pin. They keep the barrel from falling out,
I guess, but they do not keep it in proper index - that is done by friction, just like the
unpinned barrels. This surprised me a lot. Even setting the barrel back one turn did not
require recutting the slot on one K-frame that I built!

I have had my gunsmith remove several barrels for me and then turn a hair off of the barrel
shoulder, we set the index up with zero tension and hold it with red locktite. It totally
eliminates the constriction and works perfectly. We have removed one, too - warmed it
up until the locktite let loose and just unscrewed it.

Once I built my first S&W revolver from a bare frame and several different parts sources, I
learned a heck of a lot about them. One of the biggest things is that the K-frame has
changed a LOT over the last 75 years, even though everyone thinks that they are the
same. They have been steadily improved internally, simpler, better and less machining
time and therefore cost savings while actually working better than the older designs.

Bill

[Ragnarok]

I own an ancient M&P K frame that came to me with a slightly loose barrel. Yes..the pin is just a retainer..it doesn't lock the barrel in the frame.

The pin is probably set-up this way so the barrel can be turned slightly one way or the other for sight regulation purposes.

[Char-Gar]

While not common, it is not unknown to find an older Smith with a slightly loose barrel. More than likely it has been removed a time or two. It can be tightened by peening the barrel threads ever so slightly.

[mustanggt]

I have a M27 with an 8 3/8" barrel that was made in 1977. It's a -2 model. It is pinned and recessed also. It is such a beautiful piece and the craftsmanship is outstanding. Oh by the way it is my avatar as well. Is there a resource to look at when were good Smiths made or bad ones if you will? There are a few more on my list I'd like to get and knowing which to stay away from would be helpful. Thank you

[Joni Lynn]

Try 'The Standard Catalog of S&W 3rd edition'.

I have a 29-9 that has a very tight crush fit. It's the tightest I've run across.

[Char-Gar]

The quality of Smith and Wesson firearms have gone up and down depending on who owned the Company. The days when it was owned by Bangor Punta was the low point. The classic period was from the end of WWII on for more than 20 years when Carl Hellstrom was at the helm.

My last new Smith was bought about 11 years ago and it is a first class pistol. Some friends have reported that the current crop of Smith and Wesson pistols have declined in quality. I don't know that for certain as the current designs hold no appeal for me and I have not owned, examined or shot one of the recent pistols.

[Dale53]

I have owned Smith and Wessons since I was a teen ager in the early Fifties. I had some good ones and some "not so good". Saying that, "The old ones are better" is just not so.

I have some very nice early ones that still shoot very well but my two relatively new 625's in .45 ACP are excellent in every way. I have about 10,000 rounds through them, all my own cast bullets, and have NOTHING but praise for them.

FWIW
Dale53

[rintinglen]

Char-Gar speaks for me on this one. I worked the gun counter in a hardware store in those days, and S&W QC under Bangor Punta was absolutely awful. Out of 9 M-28s that came through, 3 had to go back to the factory (one with a 44 cylinder and a 357 frame)! Three of the others had rough actions or other Issues that kept them from being guns I'd have purchased. However, I bought a cased 3 1/2 inch Model 27 that was absolutely excellent. That one rates high on my list of "wish-I'd-Kept." Still and all, the most accurate Smith I've shot was a late 90's 41 Magnum. It had a crush fit barrel, not pinned.

[shotman]

as i was told the pin was to {tweek} the barrel If it didnt hit you could back off , or move forward. to get right impact point
I have good and bad also.
bought a 629 that didnt have a ring. this was a first year .
shot 3 rounds and cyl didnt turn. found that the ejector line up pin hole had a drill sprut under it . Gun was not shot much and traded It still aint too parrty to look at

[Char-Gar]

Rintinglen... Back in those days I bought 3 new Smith and Wesson sixguns in one year. I had to send all of them back, even before they were fired. A close inspection revealed they were not acceptable, so back they went.

To the factory's credit, every one of them came back in jig time and the issues were fixed, plus a few I didn't see. I had the service manager's direct phone line and that was a big help in getting things done.

It was said in those days it was Manufacturing's job to make the pistols, Marketing's job to sell them and The Service Department's job to make them work.