Converting 45 Colt to 460 S&W

[azrednek]

I currently have a 460 S&W revolver on lay-away. I was thinking that a H&R (or NEF or what ever name they are currently using) single shot would make a nice companion rifle.

Has anybody here or is it even possible to convert the 45 Colt single shot rifle to 460 S&W? I have heard or read somewhere on net that conversion to 454 Casull is simple and safe. Let me emphasize "simple". Simple to a competent gunsmith or hobbyist with proper tools and know-how. Lacking the skills, knowledge and tools. I would never attempt to do it myself.

If it is possible the project is months down the road. I'll get the 460 S&W in my hands late December or early January. I've seen several 45 Colt single shot rifles at Phoenix gunshows for reasonable prices. If the conversion is possible and I see a bargain I might pick one up.

Any advice, suggestions or even speculation is welcome.

[shotman]

WOW this place is something
We list 19000 members wonder how many are still around By doing stuff like that
Why not bore a judge to shoot a 460 ???
Gun was made for its use DO NOT do what is was not made for

[indymadcaster]

i t has been done the H&R's handle near 60k RIFLE loads from the factory!!!! need to do some reading

it is done by renting a chamber reamer go slow lots of OIL clean shavings often

they chamber handi rifles in 500 S&W too i have one along with 7 OTHER RIFLE barrels from 223 to 30-06 my 44 barrel was reamed to 445 supermag it will shoot 44 special, 44 russian 44 mag and 445 the 45LC chamber cut to 460S&W would do 45 long colt 454 and 460 its a win win So ask around 4 D reamer rents reamers would I convert a judge prob not i would have to see one and measure they put 454 on that frame from taurus so it could possibly be done. MANY cartridges start as WILDcats and switch to factory chamberings 25-06 22/250 35 whelen and many others

[50-170-700 sharps]

The H&R action is made in 500 s&w, and 45-70. Just because the factory doesn't chamber it doesn't mean it's not safe.

[indymadcaster]

it is all a matter of casehead diam vs chamber PSI = casehead thrust 30-06 48-57k pressure against .473 casehead 500S&W 62k pressure vs .556 diam
using the math he is NOT ANYWHERE NEAR max casehead thrust on that handi rifle action

[indymadcaster]

huh wonder how many things would never change if no one ventures, learns, tries or thinks outside of the box

[azrednek]

Well shotman I asked "Any advice, suggestions or even speculation is welcome." I wasn't expecting to be insulted.

"We list 19000 members wonder how many are still around By doing stuff like that"
"Gun was made for its use DO NOT do what is was not made for"

If it wasn't for opened mined shooters making their guns do something they weren't designed for. Gun makers/builders like Weatherby, Ackley, Gibbs, Lazzeroni to name a few, others that saw room for improvement or a better way like Timney, Dupont, Lee or Samuel Colt. Something as simple as Vernon Speer using expended 22RF cases for something it " was not made for" by making shootable, jacketed 22 bullets. Imagine if somebody told Ned Roberts that a 7MM Mauser case was not made to be necked down to 25 caliber. If they all had a closed mind we might still be shooting muzzle loaders with black powder.

I see H&R or NEF rifles chambered in high power rifle cartridges like 30/06 and 35 Whelen leading me to assume that a 460 S&W is not an off the wall idea. My guess is the other 18,999 members here have some what of an open mind or they would all be shooting store-bought ammo.

[DrNick]

WOW this place is something
We list 19000 members wonder how many are still around By doing stuff like that
Why not bore a judge to shoot a 460 ???
Gun was made for its use DO NOT do what is was not made for

With all due respect....what the OP is posting is not unsafe. As others have posted above the same rifle is chambered in .500 S&W with a max pressue of 60 kpsi

[para45lda]

:popcorn:

[troyboy]

Rent a reamer and have at it. Many a handi have been done. Just be sure to use an sb2 frame.

[Nobade]

Quite a few guys over on Graybeard's site have done that conversion. It seems to work well and the performance you get from a rifle length barrel is pretty impressive. I'd imagine the recoil is too.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Doesn't the 460 run at a higher pressure than the 500?

T-o-m who just wants to know

[Cannoneer]

Wouldn"t you be getting .45-70 or .450 Marlin balistics out of that chambering in an H&R Handi-Rifle?

[Fishman]

I reamed two 45 colt classic carbines to shoot .454 casull following instructions on the Greybeard site. They have a reamer you can borrow for a donation to the site, and they also have a sponsor, 4d reamers, which should have what you want. If I can do it, you can do it.

The reason I went to 454 was to allow heavy 45 colt ballistics with lower pressure by using the longer brass. It also prevents any hot 45 colt ammo from getting into the wrong gun. The 460 follows that same thinking just a little further. I wouldn't want to touch off a full bore 460 load though because I'm pretty sure it would hurt!

[missionary5155]

The 460 follows that same thinking just a little further. I wouldn't want to touch off a full bore 460 load though because I'm pretty sure it would hurt!

I think that might be the limiting factor in load development.
Mike in Peru

[bearcove]

Or do it on an Encore.

[geargnasher]

There are a couple of issues here, neither of which involve overpressuring an SB2 frame with .460 loads.

The .45 Colt H&R rifles have chambers on the large side, even for .45 Colt. The SAAMMI specs for modern .45 Colt chambers are a straight .480", and the H&R I have runs about .482" at the front and .490 at the back, so the case heads bulg a bit with hot loads. The .460 S&W Magnum is spec'd to .478", so in effect you may have a couple of issues getting it to ream straight with the bore, and you might have some funny looking brass with hot loads since the chamber might have a little more taper than it's supposed to.

The .460 rim is a tad larger, but the NEF .45 Colt chamber in mine will take a .460 rim as-is, so they must be a bit oversized.

If you can carefully bush the back half of the reamer with Scotch tape until it's a snug fit in the existing .45 Colt chamber and go ahead and ream it out to a .460, you would have a better chance of getting it cut straight. As far as interchangability of ammo between the pistol and rifle, it will be hard on brass and you'll have to fully-resize all the cases when reloading to ensure that brass fired in the re-chambered NEF will fit the revolver.

But CAN be done? Yes. HAS been done? Yes, many times. Is it ideal? Maybe, maybe not, but it will probably be more than satisfactory unless you're competing in benchrest matches.

Gear

[shotman]

next we will have a guy that wants to make a 460 out of a 22lr AND USE 45 GRS BULLSEYE FOR A REDUCED LOAD
I wonder If -graybeard- has the testing equipment that rem ,win or the rest of the gun companey have ??

[dk17hmr]

next we will have a guy that wants to make a 460 out of a 22lr AND USE 45 GRS BULLSEYE FOR A REDUCED LOAD
I wonder If -graybeard- has the testing equipment that rem ,win or the rest of the gun companey have ??

I believe the OP was/is talking about the 45lc Buffalo Classic, which is safe to ream to 460 S&W its made on a SB2 frame which comes with barrels like the 270 and the 500 S&W. I believe you are thinking of the 45/410 barrel, which would in fact more than likely blow up.

[tacklebury]

Yep, Classic Carbine, just fine, Survivor .45lc/.410 NOOOO...

I know this though, my Classic will always just be .45 colt, just like my Blackhawk. ;)

[geargnasher]

I just remembered something Felix mentioned to me once in passing: Boring out the chamber to the front of the .460 chamber large enough re-sleeve with a hollow blank, then recutting a proper .460 (or .454 Casull) chamber inside the sleeve. The sleeve could be retained with solder, Loctite, or Acraglass.

Gear

[rockrat]

As previously mentioned, there are those on Greybeards that have done it. Word of warning, it will kick the snot out of you. I have a Ruger #1 in 460 S&W and the performance out of the rifle is far beyond the pistol. It also kicks like a mule at full throttle.

Out of the Handi rifle, you will know it when you pull the trigger. You will probably want to shoot 454 loads in it and save the 460 for hunting. That said, you can load the 460 from plinking loads to OMG.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

you can get in Encore in 460 Natchez has a 20" barrel for $290.
i would think that you could find a used one for a lot less
just saying

[azrednek]

Gentleman THANK YOU for the comments. Not sure yet if I will do it or not. It is good to know, it has and can be done. If Murphy has his way. All the bargains I've seen on 45 Colt single shot rifles will disappear after I get the revolver out of lay-away.

Just curious if anybody knows. Does Hornady short-change you on brass length with the 460 as they do with 45/70?

[wgr]

next we will have a guy that wants to make a 460 out of a 22lr AND USE 45 GRS BULLSEYE FOR A REDUCED LOAD
I wonder If -graybeard- has the testing equipment that rem ,win or the rest of the gun companey have ??

graybeard per say is not doing this its just a guy on the site. graybeard is not responsable

[Old Goat Keeper]

Speaking of putting the wrong ammo in a gun I have a Taurus Judge in 45LC/410 and I an chamber and close the cylinder on 454 casull ammo. Mine is the light weight alloy frame but even IF it were all steel I'd NEVER fire a 454 in it. I have wondered if Taurus knows about that cause it IS a liability thing. For sure some idiot will try firing it.

T-o-m

[Lloyd Smale]

I see nothing wrong with the idea. A guy doenst have to run it full tilt. A 100 fps in a big bore going 1800 fps doesnt mean squat when it comes to effectiveness on game. Run a 450 grain cast bullet at even 1500 fps and it will kill anything that walks.

[rockrat]

460 isn't available in a levergun, to my knowledge, so the brass should be full length.
The 45-70 Hornady Leverrevolution ammo brass was cut back to allow the use of the leverrevolution bullet in keeping OAL to where it would feed in leverguns

[Buddy]

Someone mentioned recoil. Why would the 454 have a recoil issue? If you can handle the 454 in a revolver surely in a Handi Rifle it wouldn't be that bad. I read an article somewhere on another site about this conversion, along with others including the 445 SM which I plan to do in the future. These conversions have been done sucessfuly for years. If you have ever shot a full bore 45-70 in a Handi Rifle then you are talking recoil. I prefer a much heavier rifle for 45-70. Done correctly you'll be just fine. I shopped around for months with my tools in hand before I found a rifle with a chamber that was cut with a reamer near the end of its service life.

[leadman]

Buddy, the OP was asking about 460 S&W.

I had an old Shikari I had rechambered to 445SM and it was fine, but the 445SM is a long ways from the 460!

[MtGun44]

The safety issue is properly predicted by the pressure of the round and the internal case
diameter. I believe that the .500 S&W runs at the same pressure, and it has a larger internal
diameter. If the H&R has been safely converted (or factory made) for .500 S&W, there will
be no mechanical reason not to do the .460 S&W. I do not personally know if the H&R has
"been done" in .500 S&W, but the calculation of the loads on the action are a straight forward
engineering calculation.

I think folks that make unfriendly comments about other's ideas might do well have have
a bit of technical knowledge before they make foolish comments.

I think gear has brought up some good points from a practical stand point. Ultimately,
the ballistics will be somewhere around (not too up on exactly what the .460 S&W will do)
a hot loaded .45-70. The interchangability capability between a pistol and a rifle has been
an interesting topic for many years, and has sparked many a discussion on the pros and
cons of the situation. It would certainly be an unusual combo.

Bill

[Fishman]

Onandaga has a 500 S&W handi rifle and it is or was a factory offering. He seems pretty knowledgeable and hasn't mentioned any reservations about shooting it. I have personally seen and handled a handi in 500 as well and it looked factory. I had no desire to buy it though!